Cricket draft - AldoRaine vs ghaliboy/Kazi

[crappycraperson]

Hello and welcome to Group C round robin match of test cricket draft.

Please keep in mind that The voters are being asked to choose a team that will prevail over a three match series on these respective grounds.

• Eden Gardens, Kolkatta
• Lords, London
• SCG, Sydney

As you can see the team is built around a strong core in both batting and bowling. Led by the captain of one of the most successful test teams of all time, Ricky Ponting, with two of his most important weapons McGrath and Warne at disposal.

In batting, the line up consists of quality stroke players and this team will never be in shortage of runs. Both openers can carve any bowling attack on their day and lay down a strong platform for the following batsmen. Gibbs will be the more attacking of the two, looking to score freely and put away any lose deliveries while Sanath will look to play the long innings, which he is capable of shown by his best score, a triple century. Following them is Ponting, one of the best number 3s of all time and the innings would be built around him. As always he will play his natural game while staying on the crease for ages and driving the team to a good score. Accompanied by Martin Crowe, a superstar batsman of his generation and a beautiful stroke maker, he will use his world class technique and temperament to continue the work done by the top order. Both Ponting and Crowe are capable of rebuilding the innings in a case of early wickets as well as accelerate when needed. At 5 is the talented Darren Lehmann, didn't play much due to stiff competition but he was a brilliant player of pace and great against short pitched bowling. Also technically good enough to survive on tough conditions. At 6, a very crucial position IMO, is Kim Hughes, the former Aussie Skipper. You need someone with great character and mentally tough to finish an innings or save a test in case of a collapse, and that is what Hughes is. With a great array of shots in his book, he was never intimidated and could stay on the crease in the most dire circumstances like shown here against a devastating WI attack with wickets falling all around him. In the end there is Boucher, a very capable batsman and Warne who can contribute with decent figures.

In bowling, the attack is led by one of the best fast bowlers of all time, Glenn McGrath. Holding the record of most test wickets for a fast bowler, McGrath as we all know showed control and accuracy of line and length like no other, could land the ball on the same spot 6 times in a row and still move it both ways. More often than not he will take early wickets. Partnering him will be the Aussie workhorse, Merv Hughes. Glorious moustache aside, Hughes was a tireless bowler who was the mainstay of the Aussie bowling at his peak. With McGrath controlling one end, Hughes has the license to attack the batsmen and force errors with his variety of bowling. First change would be Ian Bishop, if not for injuries he would have been in the same bracket as the other WI greats, certainly cut from the same cloth, Bishop generated electric pace and struck fear in the batsmen's eyes. Last, but not the least, is IMO the greatest spinner of all time : Shane Warne. Nothing much needs to be said, could turn the ball on any surface and had the intelligence and tact to get any batsman out. All in all the bowling has balance to it with McGrath being the accurate one who can move it both ways, Hughes using his variety and attack mindedness while Bishop providing sheer pace and bounce. Jayasuriya and Lehmann can provide spells to give a rest to these bowlers.

Boucher is the wicket keeper in the team who holds the record for most test dismissals, and as a pure wicketkeeper, one of the best in the game.

To win a test match you need to take 20 wickets and I believe my attack is capable of it, being suited to all surfaces and against most type of batsmen. The batting his enough class to make totals good enough for these bowlers to defend. And the captain is a cunning **** who will go to any lengths to get his team the win.

The sub is Wasim Raja, a majestic stroke player and a useful bowler, Raja played the game in great spirit and entertained the crowds. He will come in for Kim Hughes if the game is being played on a subcontinent track.

 

[crappycraperson]

Player bios-

Michael Atherton – Solid opener for many years for England. Form may have dropped with captaincy, but he has an excellent cricketing brain, which will allow him to evolve to different situations. Perfect open to bat around the top order.

John Wright – Admittedly, did not know a lot about him when I saw him in my team, but after doing some research, I've come to know that he has a incredibly strong cricketing personality. Extremely disciplined and stubborn opening batsman.

Allan Border (C) – One of the all time great batsmen and captains. Average over 50 with the bat when most around him were struggling to reach 40. He built the early foundations for the world-beating Australian side we saw in the 90s and 00s.

Sachin Tendulkar – Best batsman in the draft. You know the stats. You know the quotes, but I'll leave you with Warne's: “Sachin Tendulkar is, in my time, the best player without a doubt - daylight second, Brian Lara third.”

Shivnarine Chanderpaul – He is a modern great. He's pretty much carried West Indies' test match batting line-up on his own since Lara retired, and has flourished with his extra responsibility. Extremely reliable with an incredible average of 52. You can count on him to bat through the innings. Such an underrated batsman.

Moin Khan – Extremely talented wicket-keeper batsman, who never quite fulfilled his potential. He was unbelievable with the gloves against the quickies, particularly Akhtar, where he would be flying all over the place with the ball hitting his outstretched glove at 155kph.

Shahid Afridi – Never came close to fulfilling his test match potential. If he bowled consistently for Pakistan in test matches as a second spinner for the past decade or so, he would be one of the leading wicket takers of his generation, without a doubt. 5 test match centuries to his name.

Shaun Pollock – Legend of the game. Reliable and consistently world class with his bowling. Hardly ever produced bad spells. His batting often gets overlooked, but he averaged over 32!

Heath Streak – One of the Zimbabweans that put his country on the cricketing map. Another excellent bowling all-rounder, capable of hitting a good pace at his peak.

Harbhajan Singh – With over 400 wickets, he is one of the best spinners in the draft. Varies his length, pace and type of delivery as good as any spinner out there. Thrives against the

Damien Fleming – Another superb bowler that I was able to steal towards the end of the draft. Competition in Australia was fierce during the 90s and early 00s, but he was still able to break into the team and had an absolutely outstanding strike-rate of only 55.



Well, as any wise man would do, let’s start with my strength; my batting line-up. Tendulkar.

Just kidding, but it’s no secret that my strength is in my batting. I have batsmen all the way to number 11, a combined total of 63,715 runs, 148 centuries, and a middle order that looks impossible to get through. Let’s start at the top.

I have an opening pair that is both extremely reliable, disciplined, and both almost always get through the new ball to make batting a piece of cake for my middle order. They’ve both captained in the past so they know how to play a situation.

My 3, 4 and 5 is where I will win a test match. You can almost always rely on at least one of them to make a match-winning contribution to the game. Allan Border at number 3 was one of those rare talents that were able to captain a successful side and keep his batting average at a legendary number when it was a bowler’s game. Funnily enough, he at number 3 was an incredible player of a spin, even more so considering the monopoly of seam bowling in Australia, almost the complete opposite of the batsman in next. Tendulkar, an Indian, would go to Austalia and destroy their seam attack almost every time. Together with Border, they’d make an amazing partnership. One, a fighter with the bat, and the other, the man who could play any shot right out of a text book, and make it look beautiful. Talking of text book and beautiful, Chanderpaul is only one of those things. But his unorthodox stance has brought him incredible success. He is the perfect number 5, he’ll come in at three wickets down and you’ll be surprised if he wasn’t still there when your team is all out.

My lower middle order technically starts at 6 but it ends at 11. I have no tail. Moin Khan, Shahid Afridi and Shaun Pollock are three guys that never quite reached their potential with the bat, all for very different reasons. One thing is for sure though, they all are incredibly talented and more than capable of a match-winning knock when chasing on the fifth day. They all still pose terrific averages for their positions in my team. Streak, Harbhajan and Fleming all averaged 22, 18 and 19 respectively. Incredible averages all the way down.

To those who say that my bowling attack will struggle to take twenty wickets, my team total of 1269 wickets disagrees with you. There are more than enough twenty wickets in that number.

While I may not have the most variation in my seam attack, I do have three extremely disciplined bowlers, who at their primes, were all more than capable of hitting that magical 90mph mark. All three bowlers had an economy of way under 3 (Pollock’s at 2.39) as a mark of their discipline. Test cricket is a game of patience, and I have three bowlers who are the epitome of patience, spearheaded by Shaun Pollock, who showed in Adelaide 1998 with his 7-87 in 41 overs on a solid batting track in scorching heat against the best team in the world, that patience does may off.

My spin attack on the other hand, does have some variation. I have an off-spinner who can bowl the doosra, a leg-spinner who can bowl googlies (and the same speed as Glenn Mcgrath off three steps), and Sachin Tendulkar who bowls offies and leggies! Harbhajan and Afridi are both natural wicket-takers, they’ll attack the batsman while the seamers work their magic at the other end.

 

[crappycraperson]

Kazi's middle order

 

[Moby]

I am voting for myself so that I can see the votes.

 

[Moby]

If there was a bowler who Sachin cannot claim to have dominated in his career, it is Glenn McGrath. On the other hand, Atherton suffered massively against McGrath.

On the other hand while his bowling is good I feel it might fall short of 20 wickets.

 

[crappycraperson]

If there was a bowler who Sachin cannot claim to have dominated in his career, it is Glenn McGrath. On the other hand, Atherton suffered massively against McGrath.

On the other hand while his bowling is good I feel it might fall short of 20 wickets.

Murali is the one who can claim to have an upper hand over Sachin

Mcgrath vs Sachin was more or less 50-50 IMO unlike Warne whom he dominated completely. That's brings me to the a very crucial issue in this game. Warne is a match winner but Kkazi's middle order is as good as it can be against him. Only impact I can see him having is cleaning up the tail but that only comes after going past those three.

 

[Moby]

No one can deny that his middle order would do well against the best of attacks, however what precedes and follows it is weak. Moin was a gritty player who could survive decently but in a game like this think that's somewhat a danger at 6, and I don't really rate Afridi's batting. He is probably the weakest player in the game.

Atherton's record against McGrath is woeful. He was his bunny. So there's a lot of pressure on that middle order. Anyway, they have it in them to perform despite that pressure.

Coming to his bowling vs my batting, Pollock is class, but beyond that the quality somewhat drops a bit. Streak was a warrior and shone with average players around him, but I doubt he would provide much threat here. Fleming and Bhajji can be hot and cold. The variety also lacks a bit.

 

[crappycraperson]

@Kazi- PM your responses to me, Aldo or whoever you see online in thread.

@Aldo- At least at Eden, I will back bhajji to remove your middle order. I think Pointing and Crowe are too important for you. Once you reach Lehmann, there is serious danger of whole side collapsing. Personally. right now I think he is defo going to win the test at Eden.

 

[Moby]

Well then you have Sanath who is dominating in subcontinent conditions and would play spin well. Wasim Raja would come in for Hughes at six and he was a good player of spin as well. Fair enough though, Bhajji did well on that ground. Still would say his batting is weaker than mine. Moin at 6 and Afridi at 7 is definitely an issue and so are the openers.

 

[MJJ]

I would say openers are on par, aldo are v.aggressive while kazi's are good, solid openers who can build an innings but as aldo pointed out mcgrath vs atherton is a mismatch.

Kazi middle order will easily dominate the game and is superior to aldo's. Although aldo's number 6 and 7 are stronger as a pair and individually which negates that effect to some extent.

So in summary kazi batting is slightly stronger.

Bowling, kazi has more variety, afridi, pollock are both wicket taking options while I dont rate harbhajan that much.
Warne is in a class of his own but other than that its close again.

 

[Moby]

Do you really rate Afridi's bowling in tests, specially at such a high level game?

I have Sanath who has over 300 ODI wickets and almost 100 test wickets but I'm not even bigging him much up even when he has 2 5 wicket hauls and can definitely get a few wickets. He's there mainly to give break to the main attack. At such a level I really doubt part timers can make a big impact apart from some luck here or there and I really don't rate Afridi in tests at all.

 

[crappycraperson]

I agree with you there. Afridi is a bit useless here

 

[MJJ]

Do you really rate Afridi's bowling in tests, specially at such a high level game?

I have Sanath who has over 300 ODI wickets and almost 100 test wickets but I'm not even bigging him much up even when he has 2 5 wicket hauls and can definitely get a few wickets. He's there mainly to give break to the main attack. At such a level I really doubt part timers can make a big impact apart from some luck here or there and I really don't rate Afridi in tests at all.

I think he is a wicket taking option which is true. Sanath is more defensive than him and I think might have a worse strike rate. Afridi has suffered from a lack of test cricket so he really shouldnt be in an all time draft but that doesnt change the fact that he can get you a wicket when needed. A partnership breaker as such.

 

[Moby]

I think he is a wicket taking option which is true. Sanath is more defensive than him and I think might have a worse strike rate. Afridi has suffered from a lack of test cricket so he really shouldnt be in an all time draft but that doesnt change the fact that he can get you a wicket when needed.

True, I don't think he's proven himself enough in tests and I didn't think he would be picked in this draft. He became a great ODI bowler and definitely showed his class against most teams, but not so much in tests. Against a well set batsman who is happy to just poke him around and not take any risks, I really doubt he can make a big impact, at least from what I have seen of him in tests so feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[MJJ]

True, I don't think he's proven himself enough in tests and I didn't think he would be picked in this draft. He became a great ODI bowler and definitely showed his class against most teams, but not so much in tests. Against a well set batsman who is happy to just poke him around and not take any risks, I really doubt he can make a big impact, at least from what I have seen of him in tests so feel free to prove me wrong.

Looking at his stats he has 258 first clas wickets at a strike rate of 52.2, which is excellent imo. I do rate him highly as a bowler though, would always bring him on before ajmal if we need to break a partnership as he is quite a unique bowler. I didnt think he would be picked at all in this draft though but as a second spin option isnt bad and like I said should be a good wicket taking option but it might just be my pakistani bias showing

 

[Donaldo]

Atherton, Wright and Chandepaul promises a snorefest. That said, they also provide a solid base for Sachin and Border to attack at will.

This is closer than it looks because Aldo's batting line-up after Crowe isn't too special, and Gibbs and Sanath are a bit too attacking as openers for my liking.

Overall, have to go with Aldo, think he'll nick it in a three match series.

 

[Moby]

I can understand if Lehmann is being criticized for being too short lived, but Hughes was a really really talented player. And on his day no one had an answer to his quality. Forgotten way too easily but he played some really memorable innings. Like this :



Ian Chappel described his innings against the WI as the bravest innings he has ever seen. And that is what you need in a number 6 : Bravery. Courage to stand up and not be a pushover, which Kim is far from. Do watch the one linked in the write up and tell me how many batsmen treated Andy Roberts like that.

 

[Moby]

Here's Ian describing that innings. On a bowler friendly track against that great WI attack at it's peak. One man in the whole Australian team stood up against them.

 

[Interval]

Not as easy as people think since Pollock is being highly underrated here. I don't see anyone I aldo's team keeping his bat for long apart from Ponting. On the flipside, Aldo's bowling is significantly better than Kazi's.

Ummm.. Need time.

 

[Moby]

Not as easy as people think since Pollock is being highly underrated here. I don't see anyone I aldo's team keeping his bat for long apart from Ponting. On the flipside, Aldo's bowling is significantly better than Kazi's.

Ummm.. Need time.

Crowe will. And Sanath too specially on a subcontinent pitch. He does have a triple hundred after all.

 

[Interval]

Crowe will. And Sanath too specially on a subcontinent pitch. He does have a triple hundred after all.

Yeah. That's fair about Crowe. I still don't see how, over six innings, your team will consistently pile up the runs to win matches. Tbf, his bowling isn't definitely the strongest that he'll run through easily. What's more is, that I see his batting just drawing out all the matches. Border, Tendulkar, Chanderpaul will just ensure they have 300 on board in every inning.

 

[Moby]

Yeah. That's fair about Crowe. I still don't see how, over six innings, your team will consistently pile up the runs to win matches. Tbf, his bowling isn't definitely the strongest that he'll run through easily. What's more is, that I see his batting just drawing out all the matches. Border, Tendulkar, Chanderpaul will just ensure they have 300 on board in every inning.

It's not that simple either. Both Sachin and Border are great batsmen, but they have enormous burden on them. Atherton is a ticking time bomb against McGrath which means middle will almost be exposed early on, and they have no one following them who can bat with the tail and save the test match. Unless you think they will each score a century in all of the 6 innings against McGrath, Hughes, Bishop and Warne, I can't see them piling 300 on board in every innings.

And in the end you need 20 wickets to win a game, he may have a decent case to draw one of the game but who looks more like taking 20 wickets here given all three surfaces?

 

[Interval]

It's not that simple either. Both Sachin and Border are great batsmen, but they have enormous burden on them. Atherton is a ticking time bomb against McGrath which means middle will almost be exposed early on, and they have no one following them who can bat with the tail and save the test match. Unless you think they will each score a century in all of the 6 innings against McGrath, Hughes, Bishop and Warne, I can't see them piling 300 on board in every innings.

And in the end you need 20 wickets to win a game, he may have a decent case to draw one of the game but who looks more like taking 20 wickets here given all three surfaces?

Fair enough, I guess. There's not much else you can put up in a hypothetical match. Would love to hear from Kazi

 

[Moby]

Indeed. Feel free to PM me, Kazi, if you want anything to be posted here.

 

[Moby]

Correction...

I think my batting line-up is considerably stronger for a test match. Test matches are all about batting long, and with 148 centuries in the team compared to your 105, I'd say that I comfortably have the edge. Let's not forget, the heart of your batting line-up still has nightmares of my front line spinner, who has more wickets than anyone at Eden Gardens with 46, and is a sure bet to be the difference at that ground. Especially with Warne only picking three wickets in his two matches at Eden Gardens.​

​

Admittedly, the matches at Lords and the SCG will be a lot closer. But getting through my batting line-up won't be easy. After my middle order, even if my bottom six just hit their average, I'll still have over 150, considerably more than you. Our openers are polar opposites and hard to compare, but I'd give you the edge there.​

​

Oh, and before you lay this on me... There's no denying Warne and Mcgrath have impressive stats at Lords and the SCG, but I could come right back with stats of how good my batsmen were there, e.g. Border averaged 101 at Lords and Sachin averaged 157 at the SCG.​

​

If I was completely honest, my bowling line-up might have a hard time taking 20 wickets at the SCG and Lords, but I'm confident that I'd pick up draws in both of those matches, and a win at Eden Gardens.​

 

[NM]

At first I thought this was an easy win against Aldo, but I'm not so sure. Would like to hear Kazi's arguments before voting.

 

[Donaldo]

Fair point there from Kazi actually. Not the ground wise stats because that's splitting hairs..but the fact that his batsmen could put you into induced coma. And Big Merv and Gibbs would probably go mental and beat up poor Sachin or something and cost you the match.

 

[Donaldo]

In all seriousness, the concept of a three match series makes this a lot closer. A pure decider, I'd pick Aldo by just that much.

 

[crappycraperson]

Fair enough, I guess. There's not much else you can put up in a hypothetical match. Would love to hear from Kazi

I think my batting line-up is considerably stronger for a test match. Test matches are all about batting long, and with 148 centuries in the team compared to your 105, I'd say that I comfortably have the edge. Let's not forget, the heart of your batting line-up still has nightmares of my front line spinner, who has more wickets than anyone at Eden Gardens with 46, and is a sure bet to be the difference at that ground. Especially with Warne only picking three wickets in his two matches at Eden Gardens.

Admittedly, the matches at Lords and the SCG will be a lot closer. But getting through my batting line-up won't be easy. after my middle order, even if my bottom six just hit their average, I'll still have over 150, considerably more than you. Our openers are polar opposites and hard to compare, but I'd give you the edge there.

Oh, and before you lay this on me... There's no denying Warne and Mcgrath have impressive stats at Lords and the SCG , but I could come right back with stats of how good my batsmen were there, e.g. Border averaged 101 at Lords and Sachin averaged 157 at the SCG.


If I was completely honest, my bowling line-up might have a hard time taking 20 wickets at the SCG and Lords, but I'm confident that I'd pick up draws in both of those matches, and a win at Eden Gardens.

 

[Moby]

Fair post, except I don't think the venues are meant to be considered with exact stats, but more for their conditions, so Warne not taking enough wickets at Eden Gardens isn't really relevant unless you think he's not capable of taking wickets on a regular sub continent surface. Goes for all other specific stats.

As for the rest, you have the edge in middle order due to Chanderpaul against Lehmann, but otherwise it is not as far as our bowling units are. Ponting was often compared with Sachin and Lara by fans and media alike as being the best of his generation. The number of times he has driven Australia to a win by coming in a tough situation and just taking the game away singlehandedly is unmatched, and the two men who were responsible for turning those knocks into wins are still with him here. Him and Crowe match up with Sachin and Border. Border wasn't really a specialist number 3, he played there lesser than 4,5 or 6, 21 innings is what cricinfo tells me, which says while a quality player he is not as accomplished there as Ponting is. Now consider McGrath taking Atherton's scalp more often than that like he did and Border is in against the new ball handled by McGrath and Hughes. Out of his comfort zone? Maybe, maybe not.. there's certainly a case for discussion there.

While Chanderpaul clearly is better than Lehmann, Kim Hughes is clearly better than Moin as well, and Boucher can contribute a lot more as well as stay a lot longer than Afridi. So Overall, I don't see this huge difference in batting here. In fact, as crappy said, Afridi is practically non existent as a test batsman and just there to make up numbers, at least Boucher, and even Warne can hold their own when needed to. If someone like a Ponting or a Crowe is set on the crease I'd be much more confident to see the likes of Hughes, Boucher and Warne walking in to support him than Moin or Afridi.

 

[KM]

Very difficult this.

Kazi's middle order is godly.

 

[Moby]

I'd like to add:

"It was probably unfair to add stats from those individuals venues, as those grounds are purely to give a feel of the conditions. And luckily for me, Eden Gardens has been very king to Harbhajan.

While this may look like I've gone soft on Aldo, it was more to remove the thought of Sachin being a Lords choker. He was untouchable pretty much everywhere else in England, and still looked good at Lords."

 

[Moby]

No one is stupid enough here to question Sachin's quality anywhere, Kazi. That should be the least of your concerns.

 

[NM]

Very difficult this.

Kazi's middle order is godly.

Is it really though? Border and Tendulkar, sure. Chanderpaul? Not so much. He would have averaged 5-10 runs less in the 80s and 90s, and he is a selfish cricketer (see the last test against India).

 

[Moby]

"Ponting was often compared to the likes of Tendulkar and Lara but the general consensus was that the former two were superior.

Funnily enough, I asked my dad what number Border batted most of the time, and he told me 3. I really should have researched that, but his answer was really what I wanted to hear, with Tendulkar and Chanderpaul in their preferred positions. Still, Border at 3 doesn't worry me. He is a fighter and some would say that he is at his best when out of his comfort zone, as it allows him to play his gritty batting game.

I think it's unfair to dismiss Afridi as a test match batsman. He has 5 test centuries in just 27 matches, and averages 37. Boucher has 5 centuries from 147 matches.

 

[NM]

Also have to add that Hughes, Warne, Bishop and McGrath is comfortably better than Pollock, Harbhajan, Fleming and Streak.

 

[KM]

Is it really though? Border and Tendulkar, sure. Chanderpaul? Not so much. He would have averaged 5-10 runs less in the 80s and 90s, and he is a selfish cricketer (see the last test against India).

Nah. That's harsh.

Chanderpaul has more often that not played in a rubbish team and has still continued to make runs. It's his style to play with tailenders, it didn't work this time but it also works many a times.

 

[Moby]

More than stats, its the style that bothers people when they talk about Afridi. He has carried so long on the reputation of "when he hits, he hits big", that definition applies in true sense to the likes of Sehwag, Gayle, etc but not so much to Afridi. In the last 10 odd years his batting has gone down severely even in ODIs and he's been known to throw his wicket away without putting much thought. If I were you I would send Pollock ahead of him, who's a lot more reliable in a test match. A lot of times the role of a tailender is simply to stand his ground, and allow the set batsman to carry on. Afridi, very honestly, would be one of the last names I would think of for that role. In practice you have gone with 6 batsmen here one of whom is Moin.

As for Border, as I said, given his quality it would probably not a problem per say, but in a tight game such as ours such things can matter. Not saying you should have played him anywhere else, better him at 3 than going for someone later on in the draft.

 

[Moby]

""Ponting was often compared to the likes of Tendulkar and Lara but the general consensus was that the former two were superior."

And I completely agree as well, I wasn't trying to say he was better or even equal to them, but the fact he was considered for that comparison is a testament to his quality and to be fair at his peak which went on for 7-8 odd years, he was an insane match winner. So were Sachin and Lara, but they lacked the bowlers Ponting had at his disposal to convert his knocks and effort into wins. Luckily for him, he has the two most important ones here.

 

[Moby]

"Batting Moin at 6 definitely isn't ideal, but with the lack of seam power I had when I took over the team, I felt like Afridi was a good pick, solely because he is a leg spinner and can be dangerous. He adds an extra fear factor to my bowling attack.

Still, I have no regrets. I'd rather have my five specialist batsmen and five capable bowlers, than have only four bowlers with less fire power and say a Mark Butcher at number 6. It was a calculated risk, that isn't paying off right now."