Club Vision Roadmap & Strategy

newgiz

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In any large Enterprise/organisation there is usually a High Level Vision in terms of where the Organisation sees itself over the next 5-10 years. Once the vision and goals are set, you would then do a Current State Assessment and also define a Future state based on the Vision and goals set by the organisation.

The next step is define a Roadmap and Strategy to define how we will achieve the Vision and goals set. The Roadmap and Strategy usually would involve not only defining the steps for long term vision, but also setting up short term goals or interim targets that would contribute towards achieving the Long term vision of the organisation.

When I look at top clubs or clubs in the PL, notably the likes of Real Madrid, Brighton, Arsenal (more recently), Liverpool, Brentford you can see that they have the Roadmap and Strategy set and are heading in the right direction.

To expand on this a bit , let's just take the example of Real Madrid, who have managed succession planning for their midfield from Kroos, Modric, Casemiro to Tchoumeni, Bellingham and Camavinga by not spending over the top, or the approach they take with regards to recruiting young talents like Vinicius and effectively embedding them into their first team setup.

I guess the question I have asked myself over the last few days is if we have a coherent Vision and strategy for the club?

I suppose this summer's transfer business could give some indications, however I am concerned when we don't make the efforts to sign the likes of KMJ who I believe represents a great opportunity and value signing in a position of need (maybe not immediately but certainly maybe second half of the season or next season for sure) or look for younger options for other positions.

So do you believe we have a Strategy or are you all worried just like I am at the moment?
 
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Everyone’s got a strategy until they are punched in the face. Glazers were wearing the gloves.
 
Clearly we don't have an owner-led leadership strategy, aside from reactively going for top-4 whilst extracting profits. Unfortunately for them this isn't sustainable any more without cheap and unrestricted credit , whilst the Glazers have other expenses, to greater or lesser extents in each case, which they can't meet just by pulling money out of the club. Unfortunately for us, regardless of individual levels of intelligence or even business savvy, as a collective they're functionally greedy and hubristic and unable to settle (as a collective) for a reasonable offer which would allow them to transfer the asset to someone else in return for more money than they need to pay off other debts, invest in other enterprises and live in disgusting and unearned affluence.

How much of that is intrafamilial dynamics, and how much is stalling in order that a hail-mary unicorn of an investor comes in to save one or more of them from having to sell and keep them in situ until they can take advantage of whatever further expansion in the share price happens (despite their very management and failure to pay down the debt alike being an obstacle to further growth, a growth at least partly dependent upon progress as a football club, whatever Woodward thought) is unknown....

They do, between whatever training through their overpriced educations along with whatever collection of smarter advisors, have the means by which to delay the sale for the purposes of pushing the price up through some variant of game theory/economic psych strategy. This is using United's status (as prestige and money-making operation) as leverage , along with the very fact that the longer the process drags on without their demands - which they've kept semishrouded-- being met, the more it means that the new ownership will be in a worse position given the obstacles to buying players, evaluating the current recruitment structure and so forth. I'm not an economist, but what's happening here at one level is that the damage being done by the delay outweighs any corresponding potential counter- effect on the price.
 
Mindhunter said:
Everyone’s got a strategy until they are punched in the face. Glazers were wearing the gloves.
Click to expand...

I mean sure. But over the last few years, just when we seem to be heading into the right direction we have either ended up refusing to invest and then as a consequence have slipped behind. So that makes me question whether we have a strategy or is it just vibes.
 
Obviously there's been none prior to hiring ETH. We don't know how Murtough is actually working behind the scenes, the only tangibles are contracts that are granted and what we do in the market, selling and buying.

The youth system was overhauled a few years back (we signed Mejbri for 10m in 2019, and the Spanish trio in 2020, Garnacho, Jurado and Alvarez) so that seems to have been resurrected somewhat. Although @Adnan is likely the poster to ask. By the way, was it you Adnan who said on here the other day that you knew for a fact that some of the youth departments were underfunded? I saw that mentioned in the last couple of days. Anyhow, now we're getting Fletcher looking to transfer his kids over, when the ex players have for quite some time preferred City's academy for their children.

Erik ten Hag has said that the academy needs to be completely linked to the first team, which I take to mean both that there needs to be a clear pathway for them if they are good enough and that their focus should be tactically the same as the first team's (a la his work with Bayern's reserves, doing what Pep was doing). He clearly has a plan but the question is to what extent he has to compromise. He took over a team that was not a great fit for his tactical ethos and he's done really well in shelving Maguire, alienating Ronaldo in the most silk glove manner, and if his quotes throughout the season about de Gea were just moral preservation then that's him playing another blinder there. He's obviously held back by lack of funds, which was painfully obvious in January with one injury prone forward to rely on.

To what extent were Eriksen and Casemiro his signings I'm not sure. He was doubtless happy with both, but would he have pursued them both if he'd have had ample time and funds to build his squad? Which is not a slight against either, more a question of long-term planning. In Casemiro's case you obviously have an incredible professional who influences the whole dressing room.

And it was Murtough who hired ETH and trumpeted him being chosen. He was likely also the person responsible for hiring Rangnick who didn't hold back in burrying "we're a fantastically run club" Ole quote, so he did lay some groundwork for taking the blinders off.
 
We’ll have a 5 year plan on paper…..I’d love, absolutely love to see how it relates to our transfer strategy over the past 5 years
 
Manchester United Premier League Strategy 2023. By J. Glazer.

Overview:

Manchester United are some sort of sports team. The club was founded in the olden days and used to play with one of those old-timey brown soccer balls. Wearing the proud red and white of Manchestershire, they also have an odd affinity for yellow and green.

Objectives:

The objectives for Manchester United are twofold:

1. Win exactly enough of the sports game to earn money for Joel and Avvy.

2. Make Joel and Avvy rich.

Oh actually there's a third one:

3. Make Joel and Avvy VERY rich!

That concludes our strategy.
 
First off, OP; I like you so this isn't a go at you. Actually, thank you for starting an interesting topic.

I write strategic plans at my work and I think it's clear that we do, because if a dipshit like me is expected to write *core role admitted for everyone except @Snowjoe who already knows who I am in real life, to maintain anonymity* strategies for a run of the mill local authority then I'm pretty sure a multi billion pound organisation, regardless of how poorly they've been run, are still following Business 101.

Guidelines, though. They can be changed on a whim whenever someone new comes in and decides that they want to shake things up.

The difference we have, however, is that we've gone from an investment banker who did whatever he wanted to now having someone who at least knows who to delegate work to (despite also being an investment banker, but at least one with a brain). We have Murtough - someone with transferable experience as a DoF, and David Harrison - another one with football experience. Up until Murtough came in we were probably flying by the seat of our pants, just making footballing decisions up as we went because Woodward only knew about finance (and, I don't care what anyone says, he was average at that. He got us regional pot noodle sponsors. Wow, what a businessman....). He couldn't develop a coherent plan for football if he tried.

But we at least have football people working under Arnold. Are they perfect? Of course not, I don't think they're incredible, but it's enough to suggest that we're hiring competent people for footballing roles. That in itself speaks volumes because it shows that the structure is changing, and by default that shows that a strategy is being followed. Hence; there's strategic direction. It's as simple as that, and anyone who disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about (slightly being an arrogant wanker here, so don't take offense please).

Arnold might be Woodward's pal, but he seems very practical and understands the importance of delegation. The sign of a proper manager who understands his own weaknesses.

Yes, before anyone asks. The missus brought home wine.
 
VorZakone said:
The roadmap and vision is the United way.
Click to expand...

You can make an argument the United way is synonymous and entirely predicated on SAF and Sir Matt Busby being the manager.

Without those 2 managers, what is the 'United way'?
 
I am sure that Erik Ten Hag has a long and short term plan of exactly what we need to challenge again

Whether he gets the support he needs from the board to achieve this is a whole different question

The board and strategy will likely change after takeover anyway
 
I'd give you a 60 for this. Do a SWOT analysis and you might get I bumped to a 65.
 
Very simply, it's obvious that we didn't have a working vision or strategy while Woodward was in charge. I'm sure he had 'something' in mind, but the way we bounced around all over the place and the utter incompetence continuously on show makes it obvious we had no clear vision.

The Glazer's also obviously didn't (and aren't) providing any strategy on the football side of things, other than perhaps 'make top four'.

I do think there are clear signs of improvement since Arnold and Murtough took over. Or at least attempts of improvement. I feel we've at least put in place a strategy of where we want to be and how we want to get there, but it's too early to know yet whether they actually have the capability of fulfilling that vision. We signed an upcoming manager that does seem to want to play the style that is largely dominant these days. Obviously I could be wrong, but I also feel that if ETH doesn't work out we will at least try to replace him with a manager of a similar base style, rather than do a complete 180 like we have in the past. We seem to be in the process of bringing our scouting and data analytics up to speed, with a lot of new hires in those areas over the last 18 months. By all accounts everything about our youth teams have been improved significantly (which happened directly under Murtough when he was looking after them).

It will take time to know whether it works or not. It's one thing having a vision, it's another to be capable of implementing it. That's not something that can be done overnight. So far there have been good signs (as I said above), but there have also been bad signs. Some of them, such as the over-reliance on ETH for transfer signings, can be explained by our scouting and analytic changes not yet being in place long enough to make a real difference. Others, such as us apparently offering Pogba a new contract and IMO the same with De Gea, and the window-long chase of FDJ, are not so understandable.

tl;dr - There have been improvements since Arnold took over from Woodward, but it's not hard to improve over such utter incompetence. It's too early to know whether it's good enough.
 
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Mr Pigeon said:
First off, OP; I like you so this isn't a go at you. Actually, thank you for starting an interesting topic.

I write strategic plans at my work and I think it's clear that we do, because if a dipshit like me is expected to write *core role admitted for everyone except @Snowjoe who already knows who I am in real life, to maintain anonymity* strategies for a run of the mill local authority then I'm pretty sure a multi billion pound organisation, regardless of how poorly they've been run, are still following Business 101.

Guidelines, though. They can be changed on a whim whenever someone new comes in and decides that they want to shake things up.

The difference we have, however, is that we've gone from an investment banker who did whatever he wanted to now having someone who at least knows who to delegate work to (despite also being an investment banker, but at least one with a brain). We have Murtough - someone with transferable experience as a DoF, and David Harrison - another one with football experience. Up until Murtough came in we were probably flying by the seat of our pants, just making footballing decisions up as we went because Woodward only knew about finance (and, I don't care what anyone says, he was average at that. He got us regional pot noodle sponsors. Wow, what a businessman....). He couldn't develop a coherent plan for football if he tried.

But we at least have football people working under Arnold. Are they perfect? Of course not, I don't think they're incredible, but it's enough to suggest that we're hiring competent people for footballing roles. That in itself speaks volumes because it shows that the structure is changing, and by default that shows that a strategy is being followed. Hence; there's strategic direction. It's as simple as that, and anyone who disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about (slightly being an arrogant wanker here, so don't take offense please).

Arnold might be Woodward's pal, but he seems very practical and understands the importance of delegation. The sign of a proper manager who understands his own weaknesses.

Yes, before anyone asks. The missus brought home wine.
Click to expand...

Well said. It's a bit early to be asking this question as the road map/strategy comes from the Chief Exec. Signs are generally good so far, let's see how the summer window goes.
 
It seems an odd time to post this now. So many posters lump the years of Glazer ownership together as if it was one long mess but they forget one of the most successful periods in the clubs history was under their tenure.

I am definitely NOT saying that they should get any credit for this, but I am saying that it is possible to be both well-run AND Glazer-owned. It depends on the people in charge of the football operation. When it was SAF and Gill, we did, broadly-speaking, OK. On-pitch results were good, albeit we started getting left behind a little bit in terms of implementing a modern football structure,

The period that will define the Glazer ownership is the Woodward era. I read posts all the time saying 'obviously Woodward is/was a smart man', and I strongly dispute that. The man was an absolute moron of the highest order. It's because of Ed Woodward that we have spunked the best part of £1BN in the last decade without much to show for it, catastrophic handling of the club that is going to hurt us for two/three years yet (unless the Qatar's takeover).

However, so far the signs from the Arnold/Murtough era are positive. We hired ETH for a start. That looks a fantastic decision. We have started winding back the ridiculous contracts we hand out. We signed five players who all improved the squad to a degree last season. We seem to have moved away from our 'Adult Disneyland' transfer policy to actually focusing on smart, attainable targets that fit the managers' style of football.

So I'd say 'yes, we do have a roadmap' for sure - we probably had one under Woodward too...but the man was a blithering buffoon
 
Mr Pigeon said:
First off, OP; I like you so this isn't a go at you. Actually, thank you for starting an interesting topic.

I write strategic plans at my work and I think it's clear that we do, because if a dipshit like me is expected to write *core role admitted for everyone except @Snowjoe who already knows who I am in real life, to maintain anonymity* strategies for a run of the mill local authority then I'm pretty sure a multi billion pound organisation, regardless of how poorly they've been run, are still following Business 101.

Guidelines, though. They can be changed on a whim whenever someone new comes in and decides that they want to shake things up.
Click to expand...

Thanks for engaging. You are right and this is quite often the case when there is a change in leadership.

The difference we have, however, is that we've gone from an investment banker who did whatever he wanted to now having someone who at least knows who to delegate work to (despite also being an investment banker, but at least one with a brain). We have Murtough - someone with transferable experience as a DoF, and David Harrison - another one with football experience. Up until Murtough came in we were probably flying by the seat of our pants, just making footballing decisions up as we went because Woodward only knew about finance (and, I don't care what anyone says, he was average at that. He got us regional pot noodle sponsors. Wow, what a businessman....). He couldn't develop a coherent plan for football if he tried.

But we at least have football people working under Arnold. Are they perfect? Of course not, I don't think they're incredible, but it's enough to suggest that we're hiring competent people for footballing roles. That in itself speaks volumes because it shows that the structure is changing, and by default that shows that a strategy is being followed. Hence; there's strategic direction. It's as simple as that, and anyone who disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about (slightly being an arrogant wanker here, so don't take offense please).

Arnold might be Woodward's pal, but he seems very practical and understands the importance of delegation.The sign of a proper manager who understands his own weaknesses.
Click to expand...

Indeed and this gives me hope. I would certainly agree that we look to be heading in the right direction since Arnold has taken over from Woodward.. Clearly EtH has had a significant influence as well in defining the way forward. However, I can't shake off that uncomfortable feeling that we may mess up considering what we did over the past decade and the missed opportunities to make progress.

Perhaps I jumped the gun a bit and this is a thread we could revisit at the end of this transfer window.
 
Lentwood said:
It seems an odd time to post this now. So many posters lump the years of Glazer ownership together as if it was one long mess but they forget one of the most successful periods in the clubs history was under their tenure.

I am definitely NOT saying that they should get any credit for this, but I am saying that it is possible to be both well-run AND Glazer-owned. It depends on the people in charge of the football operation. When it was SAF and Gill, we did, broadly-speaking, OK. On-pitch results were good, albeit we started getting left behind a little bit in terms of implementing a modern football structure,

The period that will define the Glazer ownership is the Woodward era. I read posts all the time saying 'obviously Woodward is/was a smart man', and I strongly dispute that. The man was an absolute moron of the highest order. It's because of Ed Woodward that we have spunked the best part of £1BN in the last decade without much to show for it, catastrophic handling of the club that is going to hurt us for two/three years yet (unless the Qatar's takeover).

However, so far the signs from the Arnold/Murtough era are positive. We hired ETH for a start. That looks a fantastic decision. We have started winding back the ridiculous contracts we hand out. We signed five players who all improved the squad to a degree last season. We seem to have moved away from our 'Adult Disneyland' transfer policy to actually focusing on smart, attainable targets that fit the managers' style of football.

So I'd say 'yes, we do have a roadmap' for sure - we probably had one under Woodward too...but the man was a blithering buffoon
Click to expand...

Woodward was incompetent and is the primary reason we are in the mess we are in. And I would certainly agree that we seem to be heading in the right direction. This upcoming window would be a good indication of our planning. But we can't afford any slip ups now and that makes me a bit nervous. A wrong step now could lead to us not challenging for titles and that's not where we want to be,
 
What about ten years from now?
Ten years from now, where do I want to be?
I wanna be... just livin', man
Just living comfortably with my niggas, man
In a pool and shit, smoking plenty indo, you know I'm saying?
I got my wife, just lounging with my wife, you know I'm saying?
With my daughter, her daughter, you know
Just laid back, just chillin', you know I'm saying?
Living all my niggas is living where I think I be?
Ten years, I don't think I will see it
For real dog, for real, man
That shit ain't promised, man
I don't think my luck is that good, I hope it is
But if it ain't, so be it, I'm ready
(You're dead wrong)
 
Very good thread OP!

1. The most important thing from a supporter perspective is that our new owners are motivated with high ambitions. Without that we're going nowhere.

2. Secondly we need owners who operate long term with the United's best interest in their heart. Opposed to the Glazers who was only profit motivated.

3. 92F has already outlined a High Level Vision in their initial statement oppseted to the vague statemnet we got from SJR. SJ message was simple and easy to understand and that's why many of us are attracted to hear more from his visions.

4. The second most important thing to do is to hire the right individuals at the top. Best in class blended with some experience. Getting the key positions right is absoluteley essential.

5. Another important factor is have a good relationship with the local community and authorities. Getting all onboard is fundamental to future success.

I start with these five bullet points and maybe you can add your thoughts about what's important in the build up phase before we outlining a road map.
 
United is one of the biggest clubs in the world with a turnover to match. If you think for one second it’s run without a plan then you are mistaken. Of course it is. The plan or roadmap is ran different in every club because they way they operate and chase player, release fees and negotiate is hugely different. United seem to be hampered by this and it’s frustrating. Let’s hope this is our last window of procuring players in this method.
 
newgiz said:
In any large Enterprise/organisation there is usually a High Level Vision in terms of where the Organisation sees itself over the next 5-10 years. Once the vision and goals are set, you would then do a Current State Assessment and also define a Future state based on the Vision and goals set by the organisation.

The next step is define a Roadmap and Strategy to define how we will achieve the Vision and goals set. The Roadmap and Strategy usually would involve not only defining the steps for long term vision, but also setting up short term goals or interim targets that would contribute towards achieving the Long term vision of the organisation.

When I look at top clubs or clubs in the PL, notably the likes of Real Madrid, Brighton, Arsenal (more recently), Liverpool, Brentford you can see that they have the Roadmap and Strategy set and are heading in the right direction.

To expand on this a bit , let's just take the example of Real Madrid, who have managed succession planning for their midfield from Kroos, Modric, Casemiro to Tchoumeni, Bellingham and Camavinga by not spending over the top, or the approach they take with regards to recruiting young talents like Vinicius and effectively embedding them into their first team setup.

I guess the question I have asked myself over the last few days is if we have a coherent Vision and strategy for the club?

I suppose this summer's transfer business could give some indications, however I am concerned when we don't make the efforts to sign the likes of KMJ who I believe represents a great opportunity and value signing in a position of need (maybe not immediately but certainly maybe second half of the season or next season for sure) or look for younger options for other positions.

So do you believe we have a Strategy or are you all worried just like I am at the moment?
Click to expand...

I'm worried just like you are at the moment. Of course the ownership situation would be playing into this, but so many signs are pointing towards there being basically a four-word strategy: "Let Erik fix it". What with? "With whatever money we can make available, considering other factors". And that's not new - it was the same with previous managers.

For me, what really grates is the apparent lack of connect between resources and process. There's no sense at all of setting a clear ambition to be in a certain place at a certain time, and then structuring investment to meet that. There's an occasional splurge, then when there's momentum, there's no follow up. Then it's remedial patchwork time before the whole thing collapses, and the cycle starts again. The club talks about transfer funds as if it was something they give to the manager, and if there are still problems after they've been spent, that's not their problem.

We are now at the same point in the cycle as after Ole's first full season. Back then, we were coming off a fantastic final 40% or so of the season, where after Bruno arrived we were the league's best team, going undefeated. There were still lots of shortcomings, but there was also real momentum, and real belief. Then we went through the summer window without a single signing that addressed those shortcomings in any fundamental way. The momentum and belief carried us through about half the season before we began to tail off - then we fell off a cliff the following season, as it became apparent that our new signings had basically upped the expectation ante without solving many problems - indeed, they may well have added to them (Ronaldo).

When a team plays really well for a season or so, with few or no players really playing below their level individually, it becomes clear to the players not just what they can do, but also where the limitations of the team go. That's where we were by Christmas 2020, in Ole's 2nd place season, and that's where we are now. If we want to sustain a positive trajectory, some of the problem areas everyone on the team will know is there have to be fixed. Otherwise, we will stall and then decline.

It would have been nice to hear club reps talk about where they see the club in 2 or 3 seasons, with some hint of a notion of how they plan on getting there. But we do not. Instead what we're hearing is back and forth about how much money there is (which is, as usual, essentially unconnected to any kind of definition of ambition and need), and which are the biggest fires ETH should aim to put out with them.

We're miles and miles away from the sort of succession planning you're describing, not just because we lack the clarity of strategy, but also because we're not a point where there's really anything to have a succession from. We're playing catch-up. And that looks to me like it's going to be a long game. We're not 2 or 3 players away - we are something like 8 players away, if you only count actual holes in the squad and the more obvious areas of required upgrade. We don't have a backup GK or a starting striker, at all. It is obviously inadvisable to carry on with a declining, expensive and stylistically unsuited De Gea as our main man in goal. It is equally untenable to countenance going forward with Harry Maguire captaining from the bench. There's limited grounds for assuming either Dalot or Wan-Bissaka is a starting-quality RB on a title-winning team. McTominay cannot fill the 6 role adequately when Casemiro is not playing. Eriksen's ability to be our go-to #8 can only diminish, and is already a vulnerable point. And there is no reason to think Martial will be suitable as a number two striker. And this is assuming nobody else turns out disappointing.

These are huge needs to address, which will take a long time and a truckload of money to fix. If we continue trying to do that with the same methods we're using now, I don't see how that could possibly allow us to catch up - more likely we will thread water. There has got to be some kind of strategy that operates on a 2-3 year timeframe, makes clear priorities, links expenditure to ambition and acknowledges the need for constant and incremental improvement to sustain momentum and belief. And which figures out a way to meet at least some of those areas of need in some other way than buying 60-100m players.
 
7even said:
3. 92F has already outlined a High Level Vision in their initial statement oppseted to the vague statemnet we got from SJR. SJ message was simple and easy to understand and that's why many of us are attracted to hear more from his visions.
Click to expand...

On this comment, to be honest I find it hard to read too much into the initial statements made by both parties.

It would have been great if it was made mandatory for parties to release a detailed Strategy document that accompanied the statements so that the public was able to scrutinise and evaluate. I don't know enough about regulations/compliance mechanisms in the UK so perhaps someone who knows better could comment here, I presume there are no such pre-requisites in place when buying a football club.
 
Discussing whether or not we've a roadmap and vision just before we get sold to a new owner who'll have their own ideas about all of that seems a little pointless.
 
Yes we have a footballing strategy,
Yes we have a road map,
Yes United have a clear and concise path on how to get there.
But of course the Caf will say otherwise because it's the Caf,
 
soapythecat said:
United is one of the biggest clubs in the world with a turnover to match. If you think for one second it’s run without a plan then you are mistaken. Of course it is. The plan or roadmap is ran different in every club because they way they operate and chase player, release fees and negotiate is hugely different. United seem to be hampered by this and it’s frustrating. Let’s hope this is our last window of procuring players in this method.
Click to expand...
Technically, of course every org has a 'plan', even businesses that go under within 6 months. It's just that other large sporting organizations don't tend to make decisions at a footballing level or prioritization of investment, that the average commentator on here can plausibly pick holes in and predict the outcome of (seemingly)better than high-end executives. In many ways we're worse than Spurs, for instance, scaled for respective size and income, who at least have a new stadium, and about as institutionally inept as Everton, even with a good manager, a DOF who has defended (with some conviction, though I'm still reserving full judgment) on here etc.

Most of that 'badness' is a level of enforced institutional stupidity that comes from the top, whereby generally intelligent or experienced people are compelled into making bad decisions further down the food-chain because of ownership unsuitability (in terms of judgment and in terms of structural things -like inappropriate micromanagement from across the Atlantic that slows down decision making even before we get into the actual decisions; the debt and the pressure to service it) that has a knock on effect in terms of what kinds of players are or have been prioritized for the sake of marketing, or as a fillip to get us top-4 rather than long-term thinking, or a particular kind of 'value' strategy. This demands a very good manager/head coach with the ability to manage upwards in order to get anything done, which is in turn exhausting when placed on top of normal duties; managers in modern football clubs at top end shouldnt be expected to do all of that - different circumstance but this is part of the reason Tuchel fell out with Boehly at Chelsea, although they at least have along-term recruitment and club strategy for all the haplessness of the short-term results. ETH is in many ways already showing himself to be 'good', but he has flaws, which Ajax fans identified even before he started here, which potentially contribute to impasse around recruitment (a certain disproportionate stubbornness around profile of player, for one; attaching too much trust to certain players in other cases) which mean that having him be responsible for strategy in a period of weakness/transition is also risky.

Basically, however, we likely won't see a 'normal', coherent strategy emerge in plain view until a new owner comes in - hopefully one who clears our club (rather than their personal/management company) debt obligations and imposes clear and fast-moving decision-making processes once targets have been identified, as well as moving players on for the squad to properly' refresh'..
 
soapythecat said:
United is one of the biggest clubs in the world with a turnover to match. If you think for one second it’s run without a plan then you are mistaken. Of course it is.
Click to expand...

There's no question we have always had a commercial strategy (after all that is the reason Glazers bought us) . However, the footballing strategy, can perhaps be only described as incoherent in the Woodward era.

The plan or roadmap is ran different in every club because they way they operate and chase player, release fees and negotiate is hugely different. United seem to be hampered by this and it’s frustrating.Let’s hope this is our last window of procuring players in this method.
Click to expand...

I was hoping last season's summer window was the end of incoherent spending (especially on Antony), albeit the players we got were the right targets. Let's hope this summer we don't repeat the mistakes we made in the last summer.
 
Bastian said:
Obviously there's been none prior to hiring ETH. We don't know how Murtough is actually working behind the scenes, the only tangibles are contracts that are granted and what we do in the market, selling and buying.

The youth system was overhauled a few years back (we signed Mejbri for 10m in 2019, and the Spanish trio in 2020, Garnacho, Jurado and Alvarez) so that seems to have been resurrected somewhat. Although @Adnan is likely the poster to ask. By the way, was it you Adnan who said on here the other day that you knew for a fact that some of the youth departments were underfunded? I saw that mentioned in the last couple of days. Anyhow, now we're getting Fletcher looking to transfer his kids over, when the ex players have for quite some time preferred City's academy for their children.

Erik ten Hag has said that the academy needs to be completely linked to the first team, which I take to mean both that there needs to be a clear pathway for them if they are good enough and that their focus should be tactically the same as the first team's (a la his work with Bayern's reserves, doing what Pep was doing). He clearly has a plan but the question is to what extent he has to compromise. He took over a team that was not a great fit for his tactical ethos and he's done really well in shelving Maguire, alienating Ronaldo in the most silk glove manner, and if his quotes throughout the season about de Gea were just moral preservation then that's him playing another blinder there. He's obviously held back by lack of funds, which was painfully obvious in January with one injury prone forward to rely on.

To what extent were Eriksen and Casemiro his signings I'm not sure. He was doubtless happy with both, but would he have pursued them both if he'd have had ample time and funds to build his squad? Which is not a slight against either, more a question of long-term planning. In Casemiro's case you obviously have an incredible professional who influences the whole dressing room.

And it was Murtough who hired ETH and trumpeted him being chosen. He was likely also the person responsible for hiring Rangnick who didn't hold back in burrying "we're a fantastically run club" Ole quote, so he did lay some groundwork for taking the blinders off.
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That was me mate and it's true that the City academy have left us behind due to how much funding they receive both from a player/coaching development perspective and how much money their owners have pumped into upgrading facilities. Fletcher made the correct decision to send his sons to the City academy because as a father you have to do the best for your children and Sheikh Mansour left no stone un-turned in providing Brian Marwood (sporting director at the time) the funds to develop City at all levels of the club. You just have to look at our Womens team and the lack of facilities and funding they receive in comparison to the competition in the WSL. But surprisingly our Womens team still punches above their weight and put up a genuine title challenge and fell short by 2 points. And that's a testament to the work being done by the people working on the football side of the club. But things have now got a little harder because we have lost two of our key players on free transfers and a new owner can't come soon enough for me.

And regarding the academy being linked to the first team as far as playing style is concerned. We're making moves to help both ten Hag and the young hopefuls by linking the play styles in the first team and academy which would potentially help the transition for both the youth and first team coaching staff.

Alex Kleyn is a data scientist who is joining for the new season and his background in data analytics is one where he's involved in connecting the play-styles of the academy and first teams.


 
Adnan said:
That was me mate and it's true that the City academy have left us behind due to how much funding they receive both from a player/coaching development perspective and how much money their owners have pumped into upgrading facilities. Fletcher made the correct decision to send his sons to the City academy because as a father you have to do the best for your children and Sheikh Mansour left no stone un-turned in providing Brian Marwood (sporting director at the time) the funds to develop City at all levels of the club. You just have to look at our Womens team and the lack of facilities and funding they receive in comparison to the competition in the WSL. But surprisingly our Womens team still punches above their weight and put up a genuine title challenge and fell short by 2 points. And that's a testament to the work being done by the people working on the football side of the club. But things have now got a little harder because we have lost two of our key players on free transfers and a new owner can't come soon enough for me.

And regarding the academy being linked to the first team as far as playing style is concerned. We're making moves to help both ten Hag and the young hopefuls by linking the play styles in the first team and academy which would potentially help the transition for both the youth and first team coaching staff.

Alex Kleyn is a data scientist who is joining for the new season and his background in data analytics is one where he's involved in connecting the play-styles of the academy and first teams.


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Cheers mate. That's very encouraging news. I see Kleyn joined the Saints in '17 and was promoted to that role in '19, so he's been there prior to the asset strippers who pretty much put them in the mire. That streamlined transition is exactly what we've needed - I remember many a time when listening to people speak about the development of the youngsters that it had very different emphasis because different requirements were in place, which doesn't seem logical if the idea is for them to actually be here for the purposes of making the grade at United. Our mutual favourite Mejbri may have benefitted greatly had this already been in place back in 2019, with him being developed as we both would like to see (ball progressing deep midfielder).

With Jordan only beginning his role in March of last year it's too early perhaps to see the effects of that appointment, but the hope is all these departments are on the same page and that it affects both recruitment for the first team and our youth recruitment.

Hopefully Dempsey and Wood are both reading off of ETH's page.

Have we establised a head of recruitment yet?
 
Isn't "Data Scientist" just a fancy way of saying you play Football Manager whole day every day?

"Do your homework, Alex!"
"But mum, I'm working!"
 
FreakyJim said:
Isn't "Data Scientist" just a fancy way of saying you play Football Manager whole day every day?

"Do your homework, Alex!"
"But mum, I'm working!"
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If you're also doing degree level maths alongside your gaming on split screens, and writing extensive stats and diagram -heavy reports, then maybe.
 
Like Tyson said. Eveyone has plan until Bam.

Ed has a plan. And 10 years ago it too look great.

Grow United, stability, bringing Galacticos, expand growth

It all depending on one biggest factor : hiring the right manager.

And to be fair Ed knew hiring Moyes was wrong, he probably spite Fergie by axing him and hire LVG... Who would have thought the man behind Ajax golden Era and proponent of beautiful football suddenly lost his mojo.

Point is.. everyone has a plan until shit hits the fan
 
FreakyJim said:
Isn't "Data Scientist" just a fancy way of saying you play Football Manager whole day every day?

"Do your homework, Alex!"
"But mum, I'm working!"
Click to expand...

No. Not really.

The work involves designing and implementing extensive Data models which would help in Player assessment, recruitment, identifying strengths and weaknesses and much more.
 
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