ChrisG11 VS Skizzo - All time 3 year peak - Auction Draft

Who would win based on players in their 3 yr peak?

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Annahnomoss

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Brief Summary - ChrisG11

The system I will be using is a mixture of van Gaal and Guardiola. It requires players to be able to both play their passes and dribble with the ball in order to be able to adapt to any circumstance and any defensive system. The four main creative players in Ronaldinho, Bale, Totti and Henry boast a total of 293 goals between them in their peak periods. The full backs and Modric are there to support if necessary and create overloads. Defensively, it is important to have 4 players centrally that are defensively competent. Carvalho, de Boer and Busquets are the 3 main defenders, with Modric being the fourth who can support defence and attack. We aim to press high and the intensity of the pressure depends on the situation, where individual, zonal or traps will be used to retain possession. The side has many elite set piece takers and many players who can threaten in the box, whilst the back four is incredibly set up to deal with anything that comes into the box – should the opponents get that far. I go into detail about my system below, but it’s long so just thought I’d give a general overview.

The System

My side will operate in a 4231 formation, as this the best way to capture their best years. Being a Manchester United fan on a Manchester United forum, I’ll break down my system to the rules of our current managers philosophy, because, you know, philosophy>everything. I’ll start with our possession first.

Phase 1: Construction

This is when the ball is at the goalkeeper. I need my players to be able to spread out and create as much space as possible on the pitch. Because of this, mistakes in possession could be costly, so every player needs to be able to receive the ball in tight areas competently and successfully keep the ball. A crucial part of this phase is having a goalkeeper that can distribute the ball. The goalkeeper needs to be able to drop the ball into players’ feet or into spaces where they can receive the ball accurately in order to keep possession. This means that in our own half, we always overload the opposition 11>10 should they decide to press high, and that capable players will be able to retain possession and move onto the second phase.

Phase 2: Ball Circulation

Once we’ve got possession in the outfield, we need to have players that are able to adequately move the ball. Whether a team presses high or whether they sit deep, they have a defensive system that needs to be disorganised. The way to do this is by being composed under pressure, moving the ball across the pitch with pace and attempting to either create space to exploit the opponent or by committing a player and exploiting they’ve left in behind them. This requires players with a well rounded passing range, who have quick feet, mobile and use their body well under pressure.

Phase 3: Creativity

In this instance, my side has been able to move the ball in such a way that a gap has appeared and needs to be exploited. Here, it is essential that players have to ability to either make the telling pass or more important, carry the ball into the space and break lines. Breaking defensive lines is the most crucial and important part of this system, because this is where danger can be created and chances are made. This phase, along with phase 2, apply to anywhere on the pitch against all defensive systems. Plays have to be able to move the ball about whether they’re pressed intensely in their own third, or are trying to break down a deep block in the final third. Spaces open up all over the pitch and this needs quick thinking, intelligent players to recognise this and exploit. It could come from a full back carrying the ball forward, and centre halves carrying the ball out of defence into midfield, a midfielder driving through gaps in the opposition midfield and onto the defence or a winger getting a chance to take his man on 1v1. These are the situations we need to create in order to disorganise the opposition and take full advantage.

Phase 4: Finalisation

This stage is once we’ve created the overload and we’ve create the chance to create a goal scoring opportunity. This requires players to have excellent decision making on when the right time is to release the ball, the ability to execute the technique of whatever they are required to depending on the situation (pass, shot, cross etc.) and intelligent movement from team-mates so that the move can be completed. This is strictly in the final third and it might be movement in the box to find space for a shot, stretching the remaining defenders to be played through on goal or to create space for the ball carrier to have a shot. Of course, once it gets to this stage, there needs to be players that can score goals and are able to finish of their chances.

Defensive Organisation

Defensively, my side are going to use a number of defending principles in order to win the ball back effectively without conceding and minimising the opponents opportunities to score. This is a mixture of van Gaal and Guardiola’s approach to defending.

Pressing Triggers

There are 3 different categories of pressing that my side are going to use in order to win the ball back and put pressure on the opposition.

Individual: This is when a particular player is in any position where they aren’t in control of the ball and are able to manoeuvre it with competence. This could be when the ball is on their weaker foot, is bouncing, is in the air, to player has taken a bad touch or the player has his back to goal. In any of these instances, our team pushes up and applies pressure.

Zonal: This is where our players mark certain areas that we don’t want the opposition to exploit. Most of these will be central, so we will not allow the opponent through the centre of the pitch and subsequently force them to either go back or out wide. This is where we will have a compact, 4411 shape and will hold position so that we remain organised and in control of situations until the opponent gives the opportunity to win the ball back.

Traps: By marking certain spaces, this allows us to force play and set traps that the opposition can fall into. From this, we will mainly be looking to split the centre halves when necessary and forcing them to go down the touchline. Once the ball is at the full back, the winger charges over to block the inside pass and restricts their option to either a ball into the winger, who will have our full back and CM pressing him intently, or to play a long percentage ball – where we can win the first/seconds and retain possession. Our traps will be set down our right hand side of the pitch due to that being our most defensively sound area, blocking the opponents right hand side which also allows our deepest midfielder to sweep up any loose balls into the middle.

The 6 second Rule

One I’m sure everyone has heard of under Guardiola. This will be used every time the ball is lost in the opposition half and one of the individual pressing triggers is evident. This is so that we are quicker in defensive transition than the opposition is in attack, which allows us to win the ball back quickly whilst the opponent is uncomfortable. This is considerably intense pressure and will only be used for 6 seconds in these circumstances.


Recovery

Whenever the opponent is in controlled possession, or has managed to break the first phase of pressing, the team goes into recovery. This is where we retreat as an organised bunch, close in and slow the opposition whilst our men get behind the ball. Once and during recovery, we set up our zonal defensive formation and drop however deep is necessary until we are fully organised. We then go through the same process of setting traps unless we are defending on the edge of our box. Our defensive line otherwise should always be quite high and never more than 15 yards away from the midfield line, restricting space in between the lines. This will obviously leave space in behind, so players will have to be aware and quick in defence, whilst the goalkeeper will have to be able to sweep.
 
How My Team Fits The System

Player profiles
Buffon: 03/04 – 05/06

Arguably the greatest goalkeeper of all time. World class reflexes and shot stopping ability, commanding and a fantastic communicator; an elite, natural goalkeeper. Tactically, he has great feet for a goalkeeper who can distribute the ball and is quick off his line to cover through balls in behind his defence, which makes him the perfect GK for this system; or any system for that matter.

Lilian Thuram: 96/97 – 98/99

A colossal, man mountain of a man who has a touch of elegance and composure in possession. His strength and touch helps him under pressure, whilst being a good passer of the ball and is also able to drive forward when required. Defensively, he’s an excellent one v one defender who is able to outmuscle and pressurise opponents. He’s also great in the air, and is equally adept at playing centre half; which can help should the defence ever need to shift across and cover the left hand side.

b]Ricardo Carvalho 03/04 – 05/06

The brains behind the immovable object that was Mourinho’s first Chelsea side. He was a quick, agile defender that used his incredible reading of the game to snuff out opposition attacks, whilst also being a good distributor of the ball. In this system, he’s more than capable of holding a high line and sweeping anything in behind, whilst also possessing the ability to move out of defence with the ball.

Frank de Boer: 95/96 – 97/98

Played a pivotal role in van Gaal’s Champions League winning side during his time at Ajax. He knows more than anyone what it takes to play in a system that resembles LvG’s ideas, so much so that the manager brought him over to Barcelona with him later on. Another intelligent, gifted defender who is a fantastic distributor of the ball and can both play passes and carry the ball out of defence. He can also play LB so has no problem drifting out to the left to cover Evra when he goes forward.

Patrice Evra: 06/07 – 08/09

Was part of the defence that kept the most consecutive clean sheets ever at his time at Man Utd. One of the best full backs I’ve had the pleasure of seeing at bringing the ball out from the back as well as overlapping his wideman to create overlapping opportunities. The best in the world in his position in his prime, and is also a very good defender; a specialist at marking the back post on crosses.

Sergio Busquets: 08/09 – 10/11

Was the difference between Pep Guardiola being crazy or a genius. Played in the most aggressive pressing side ever and was largely responsible for allowing all of Barcelona’s attacking talent to connect higher up the field, whilst he would cover any loose areas from their press. Also an incredible ball player, who’s resistant to pressure and incredible at breaking lines with his passes. A true mediocentro.

Luka Modric: 12/13 – 14/15

Quite possibly the best midfielder in the world at this moment in time. The support he gives both going forward and defensively is immense, very few players in the world football can do the same job. He’s a player that is composed under pressure, a fantastic controller and can carry the ball into attacks when needed. His main role is to dictate the tempo of the game and supply creative opportunities for the players in front of him, while acting as a support player should the moves need to be restarted.

Gareth Bale: 12/13 - 14/15

He’s the most expensive player to ever be purchased for a reason. A player that possesses blistering pace who can exploit spaces in the opposition defence and take players on when the opportunity arises. He’s also a threat from short and long range, as 65 goals in his 3 year period would suggest. Moreover, he’s a very unselfish player as we’ve seen at Madrid, so will be an outlet who can provide for the other goal threats in the side.

Francesco Totti: 04/05 – 06-07

The same amount of goals as Bale, as well as 37 assists in the chosen period of his career. It goes without saying, what a creative player Totti is, who can operate in tight spaces and has unrivalled technique when manoeuvring a football. His ability to produce a final ball, finish his chances and take players out of the game with his breathtaking skill plays a considerable role in this system. Totti played as a false 9 under Spaletti in 06-07, which will still be a similar role to that in this side, as it will enable the likes of Ronaldinho and Bale to drift inside and exploit the spaces he leaves; leading to a fluid and devastating attack.

Ronaldinho: 03/04 – 05/06

Probably the most exciting player to ever play the game, in terms of flair and trickery. His imagination is out of this world, and was of course the best player in the world during his peak. It’s impossible to get tight to him because of his skill on the turn and impossible to jockey him with how he shifts the ball at such pace, unplayable for any defender he faces. He’ll be able to take players on down the outside, or drift inside into spaces Totti leaves, which also allows space for Evra on the overlap. Again, little needs to be said about his end product, with his passing and finishing being of a world class standard; he boasts 61 goals and 51 assists in his 3 year period.

Thierry Henry: 03/04 – 05/06

I top this incredible team off with the best striker to ever grace the Premier League. 102 goals for Arsenal in his 3 year period. For all the creativity surrounding this side, I couldn’t think of a better player to be finishing off the moves. He has everything’ movement, pace, dribbling, finishing, threat from long distance, poachers instincts; his presence alone will push opposition defences back and create more space behind him to exploit. Furthermore, he especially likes to run the left channel and drift out to the left, again allowing either Ronaldinho to come inside or Totti to push further up.

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Tactical Synopsis:


We line up in a 4-3-1-2 formation akin to that deployed by Ancelotti’s Milan team of the early 2000s, built around one of the elite No. 10s in footballing history in Michel Platini. Our interpretation of this variant of the diamond formation is that it largely eschews the requirement that the side midfielders provide width going forward as a primary responsibility. Instead the attacking width comes primarily from the full backs and the forwards. To that end we’ve drafted two of the all-time great attacking full backs in Cabrini and Amoros. Cabrini, in particular, was effectively a one man left wing for Juventus and Italy and was an immensely important part of those highly successful sides. Up front, we’ve paired Karl-Heinz Rummenigge with Ruud Gullit. Joga, in winning the Euros Draft, did a superb job in outlining Rummenigge’s first-rate ability to provide width whilst maintaining lethal productivity in front of goal. Gullit, an almost impossibly versatile and well-rounded footballer, is equally at home in the wings, as this performance against Scotland that lit up an otherwise dour game indicates:












The strength of the formation is that it provides us with the rock solid central core that will enable us to nullify much of Chris’ threat and take control of the match. We field Ruggeri and Chumpitaz as our all-South American central defence, with Ruggeri as the tough, dogged man marker and Chumpitaz the technically imperious, athletic ball player. Ruggeri seems particularly well-equipped to withstand Batistuta’s battering ram style of centre forward play should Batigol start.

Ahead of them, Van Hanegem, Effenberg and Tardelli form a ferociously competitive, suffocatingly powerful, and technically brilliant central midfield. Van Hanegem is a master at patrolling that left midfield position, recovering possession with his superb reading of the game and fearsome tackling, manoeuvring into space with his superb close control, and initiating attacks with his first-rate passing.

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Tardelli initially starts on the right of central midfield. As the most mobile of our midfielders, he’ll play a vital role in supporting Amoros and Ruggeri if Chris, as we expect, plays Ronaldinho in a left-sided role with Henry potentially drifting out there too. These positions can be quickly altered if Chris throws a tactical curve ball. Effenberg nominally starts in the centre of the trio, and defensively he’ll probably take a primary role in pressing whichever central playmaker Chris fields.


When we recover possession, all three midfielders will have their moments to attack during the match, but Effenberg will generally be the first to burst forward in support of Platini, much as he did with Mehmet Scholl for Bayern. Van Hanegem will likely arrive later most of the time, generally when we’ve adopted a more patient build up in a specific phase of play, either ghosting into the penalty area or unleashing his potent shooting from the edge of the box. Van Hanegem’s goalscoring record in his first stint Feyenoord was a highly impressive 88 in 247 games, so he offers a considerable threat in this regard.

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Pressing and Build Up:


Our defensive strategy is based around capitalising on the strengths of our formation and maintaining a solid shape. To that end, we won’t be pressing as a team until roughly when the opposition reach the half-way line. While one of the attackers will pressure whoever is on the ball, the priority is getting our midfield trio back behind the ball, and giving the opposition the unenviable task of getting through them.


The build up will be mixed. Effenberg, Van Hanegem and of course Platini if he drops deep, all easily have the vision and technique to launch a counter attack by finding a forward or an advancing full back with a pass. Equally they can take the sting out of the game and retain possession, or more typically probe for openings in a quicker more direct style. The full backs both have good delivery, and in Gullit versus two small-ish defenders Cabrini has an inviting target to aim for.


The crown jewel of the team is the magnificent Platini, possessor of one of the very finest three year peaks in the draft. Winner of three consecutive Ballon d’Ors, top scorer in Serie A for three consecutive seasons, he capped this incredible peak with an extraordinary performance in Euro ’84, where he scored 9 goals and inspired France to victory. Our midfield will ensure he sees plenty of the ball and provide him with ample options for interplay, and our forwards and marauding full backs will give him the passing options he needs.


Keys To Victory:


1) Firstly, we have the better players in key areas, particularly in defence. Thuram is top class and Evra very, very good, but Suurbier has been brutalised in drafts before with little in the way of comeback, and Ruggeri/Chumpitaz are a class above Carvalho/De Boer defensively. In midfield, Busquets and Modric are fine, technical players, but our trio have incredible physicality and leadership as well as great technique.

2) Chris’ left side vs our right side: To be honest we don’t know how Chris will line up, but Ronaldinho and Henry both occupying left attacking roles of some sort with Evra in support seems the most threatening option to us. It is formidable, but Amoros supported by Ruggeri in defence and Tardelli at right midfield is a superb buffer against Chris’ greatest threat.

3) Gullit’s Aerial Supremacy: Assuming Chris lines up with De Boer at left centre back and Evra at left back, we expect Gullit to cause massive problems in the air. Evra has a prodigious leap, but not quite prodigious enough to prevent the aerially brilliant Gullit from capitalising on a Cabrini cross or Van Hanegem long ball.

4) Our Attck vs Chris Defence: In our opinion, the biggest mismatch on the pitch. Thuram/Carvalho/De Boer/Evra or Suurbier/Thuram/De Boer/Evra both look underwhelming at this level, and there’s a huge burden on Thuram to carry that defence. Its too much to ask against Gullit, Rummenigge and Platini, who between them won 6 Ballon d’Ors in the 1980s.
 
Player profiles Skizzo

Pat Jennings peak years 1971-1973
Jennings won the League Cup with Spurs in '71 and '73, and the UEFA Cup in 1972. In 1973 the FWA named him as footballer of the year. He was the first goalkeeper to save with his feet consistently, his clearances got a good length and his goal kicks had a great distance. Jennings' physical size - he was imposing despite only being six foot - allied to his calm demeanour made him a formidable opponent but a reassuring presence to his team mates. During his time he was one of the best in one-on-one situations. He was incredibly agile and just flung out of the goal mouth and pretty much caught anything. In fact, he was well known for saving and catching the ball easily with one hand.


Oscar Ruggeri peak years 1986-1989
One of the most successful defenders in Argentina's football history. He always gave his best, dominant in the air, committed and skillful. Ruggeri represented Argentina in three World Cups. When one speaks about the 1986 World Cup, most people think about Diego Maradona, but Oscar Ruggeri was also a key piece to Argentina's team. He scored the third goal that gave Argentina a 3-1 victory against South Korea in the first match, and led Argentina to achieve the best defensive record in the tournament with only 5 goals conceded in 7 games.


Hector Chumpitaz peak years 1971-1973
Hector Chumpitaz is one of Peru’s most recognized footballer player, was known for his great technique, his leadership, his organization ability on the field, A strong reader of the game with excellent ball skills and distribution. He marshaled a capable defense to support Peru’s attack led by Teofilo Cubillas. Chumpitaz was the selected captain of the American continent's team in 1973. He was an impressive defender-scoring with 74 goals in 530 career matches. Chumpitaz is considered one of the greatest south American defenders of all-time and was named to the list of best World Cup players of all time by Terra.com in 2006. He was elected the 35th best South american footballer of the 20th century in a poll by the IFFHS in 2000.


Manuel Amoros peak years 1985-1987
Renowned at right full back – but equally at home on the left – Amoros would go on to be recognized as one of the best full backs in French history. The 1986 World Cup saw France get past Brazil in the quarter finals in one the great World Cup matches before falling yet again to Germany in the semis. Amoros was recognized as one of the finest defenders of his age, being voted into the team of the tournament.


Antonio Cabrini: Peak Seasons – 1981/82, 1982/83, 1983/84

One of the greatest left backs ever, Cabrini at his peak was a one man left wing and a crucial part of Juve’s Zona Mista formation. Defensively competent and excellent going forward, he’s scored more goals for Italy than any other defender, and had an impressive scoring record for a full back for Juventus too. His consistency in racking up trophies over the decade from 1976-86 made it difficult to isolate a three year peak, but we’ve opted for 1981-84 when he won two Scudettos, a Coppa Italia, a Euro Cup Winners Cup and of course the 1982 World Cup.

Marco Tardelli: Peak Seasons 1979/80, 1980/81, 1981/82

Arguably Italy’s best ever box to box midfielder, Tardelli was a ferocious competitor blessed with great stamina, tackling and tactical intelligence. He was also a scary bastard, with The Times ranking him at No. 10 in their hardest footballers of all-time list!

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/printable.asp?m=1554851
A good passer of the ball with a very respectable goal scoring record from midfield, he won two Scudettos and a World Cup,famously scoring in the final, and was awarded a Team of the Tournament place following Euro ’80.

Stefan Effenberg: Peak Seasons – 1998/99, 1999/2000, 2000/01
A powerful midfield general with an exquisite range of passing, Effenberg was by all accounts also a cnut. With that in mind we’ve chosen an unusually late three year peak for him, when he was 30-33 years old. It was at this stage of his career that his indomitable character most clearly aligned with the overall good of the team, as he emerged along with Oliver Kahn as the leader of an excellent Bayern team at the turn of the Millenium. As his manager Ottmar Hitzfield stated, "Stefan Effenberg leads this team, many of my players come to life when he's around. When others are looking for a hiding place, that's when Effenberg steps forward." He won a Champions League and 3 consecutive Bundesligas during this period, performing with distinction against some top quality midfields including Redondo’s Real Madrid.


Ruud Gullit peak years 1987-1989
Gullit won the Ballon D'or in 1987 and was named the World Player of the Year in 1987 and 1989. Gullit is in the mold of many Dutch players, and is an embodiment of Total Football. Capable of playing numerous positions, and aiding his team offensively and defensively. He had fantastic athleticism, and combined with his technique, intelligence, and flair, he was an iconic figure in World Football, and a key part of all the teams he played for.


Willem Van Hanegem peak years 1972-1974
He is regarded as one of the best Dutch players even. Usually named before played like Gullit, Rijkaard, Bergkamp, Koeman and Krol. He is respected for his tactical insight. Both his way of sprinting, and his skill to give the ball a curve (achieved by striking the ball with the outside of his left foot) gave him the nickname De Kromme (The Crooked). He is also well known for his fantastic passing range and his ability with the ball at his feet. He was part of the Dutch national team in 1974, reaching the final in Munich. Noted journalist Brian Glanville considered Van Hanegem to be the best Dutch player on the pitch


Michel Platini: Peak Seasons – 1982/83, 1983/84, 1984/85

Not much needs to be said about ‘Le Roi’. One of the all-time great playmakers, he was a majestic passer and set-piece specialist, a leader, and a prolific goalscorer. We’ve nominated his first three seasons at Juventus as his peak, where he won three consecutive Ballon d’Ors in 1984, 1984 and 1985. He swiftly recovered from a difficult start to his Serie A career to score 82 goals in 139 games for Juve in three seasons. He won a Scudetto, a Coppa Italia, a European Cup, a European Cup-Winners Cup and a European Super Cup during this period, as well as being Serie A top scorer in all three of these seasons, and European Cup top scorer in 1984/85. Sandwiched in between was one of the iconic international tournament performances, when he led France to victory in Euro ’84 whilst scoring a stunning 9 goals in 5 games.

Hans Krankl: Peak Seasons 1976/77, 1977/78, 1978/79

A prolific centre forward with a lethal left foot, an imposing aerial game and a fetching moustache, Krankl would surely be a far more well-known name had he left Rapid Vienna earlier. A four time Austrian Bundesliga top scorer and five time Austrian Player of the Year, any suggestion that he could only hack it in a weaker league is rubbished by his marvellous World Cup in 1978 (4 goals in 6 games including 2 in a famous 3-2 win over West Germany) and his blistering debut season for Barcelona (29 goals in 30 league games and 36 goals in 40 games overall). Scored an impressive 113 goals in 119 club appearances across our nominated three season peak.

Karl-Heinz Rummenigge: Peak Seasons – 1979/80, 1980/81, 1981/82

One of the finest and most well-rounded attackers of his generation, Rummenigge brings a formidable range of qualities to our attack. Quick, skilful and creative, he also blossomed into a prolific goalscorer as he entered his peak. During his nominated peak seasons, he scored 102 goals in 140 games for Bayern Munich, won 2 Bundesligas and a German Cup and was twice Bundesliga top scorer and once European Cup top scorer. He starred in West Germany’s Euro 1980 triumph, and was second-highest scorer in the 1982 World Cup with 5 goals. Oh, he also managed to win two Ballon d’Ors, in 1980 and 1981. All in all, an imposing body of work.

@Skizzo @ChrisG11
 
Skizzo has too many gifs and chrisg has too many arrows. THat is all
 
NM said:
Skizzo has too many gifs and chrisg has too many arrows. THat is all
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And both have at least a couple of tactical misfits. Shame, some great players on show being let down by poor selection choices elsewhere.
 
First of all...good luck chris!

Just a few thoughts to start out. Chris is probably sleeping so I don't want to write pages until he gets a chance to rebuttal and John the discussion.

Firstly, with bale and Ronaldinho, most of the width will need to come from elsewhere. They'll both be looking to cut in centrally to a similar space as Totti. It's also where we have van hanegem, effenberg and tardelli patrolling. With no one to stretch them and create openings, he'll have a hard time finding space to exploit.

Secondly, playing a high line can be dangerous at the best of times. It leaves so much space to exploit, and with van hanegem and platini, that could be costly.

Evra will mostly be trying to hold down that left side on his own. Modric is elsewhere, and busquets will have more than his fair share of work to do to try and keep tabs on platini and co. Gullit will be looking to drift out that way, and it's a physical mismatch. Gullit will bully him all game, especially with any high balls or crosses. There's no one who can really compete with him, bar Thuram, and he's elsewhere.

Lastly, the midfields. Always a point of discussion. Here it seems fairly clear we have an advantage of not just personnel, but work rate and physicality as well. There's no one who would shy away from a battle. All born leaders and the driving force of their respective teams. Up against modric and busquets, I think chris would struggle to control possession like he would hope to.
 
antohan said:
And both have at least a couple of tactical misfits. Shame, some great players on show being let down by poor selection choices elsewhere.
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Downside of auction draft for us timing wise. I was checking in sporadically because I was out of town, and pat was busy. we were having discussions in PM but with deadlines winding down we had to make some quick decisions.

We are quite happy with how we turned it out though.
 
Skizzo said:
Downside of auction draft for us timing wise. I was checking in sporadically because I was out of town, and pat was busy. we were having discussions in PM but with deadlines winding down we had to make some quick decisions.

We are quite happy with how we turned it out though.
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I'm glad I haven't played any. The massive lists of players, constantly changing values, deadlines, regularly screwed up and missing info... Would drive me nuts.
 
antohan said:
I'm glad I haven't played any. The massive lists of players, constantly changing values, deadlines, regularly screwed up and missing info... Would drive me nuts.
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It was madness, there was no structure at all. The previous auction drafts were easy to follow and participate in but not this one.
 
Not much interest in this one so far.

Regarding Chris' tactics, I question the high press on two counts. Firstly, there can't really be any passengers in a high press system, and I don't think Ronaldinho ever really had the defensive work rate to be a reliable part of that system. To a lesser extent, Bale's work rate has come under fairly intense scrutiny this season (which is part of his listed three year peak).

Secondly, I don't see our players having much trouble with being pressed.The two full backs and Chumpitaz are very gifted on the ball, and our midfield's combativeness and technical abilities are too high for them to fold under pressure. Look at Van Hanegem's composure and skill in the first gif in our write up for example - he'll comfortably evade the players pressing him the vast majority of the time.
 
Good write-ups. I'm not hugely sold on De Boer at this level, but in fairness this is a complementary set-up to get the best out of him, particularly on the ball feeding through his midfield and into the attackers, or with the counter-attacking diagonal onto the onrushing Bale. Equally I'm not quite convinced about Skizzo's holding midfield trio, it doesn't quite smell right. That said, those are good full backs for the job in hand and I can see Gullit winning a few knock-downs for Platini. That's a potential route to a goal, especially given Busquets never having faced a no10 of that ilk.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Modric on the right?

I also don't like Effenberg in that role. A swap with Tardelli would be better, I think.

Oh yeah, Gullinigge :D
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Gio said:
Good write-ups. I'm not hugely sold on De Boer at this level, but in fairness this is a complementary set-up to get the best out of him, particularly on the ball feeding through his midfield and into the attackers, or with the counter-attacking diagonal onto the onrushing Bale. Equally I'm not quite convinced about Skizzo's holding midfield trio, it doesn't quite smell right. That said, those are good full backs for the job in hand and I can see Gullit winning a few knock-downs for Platini. That's a potential route to a goal, especially given Busquets never having faced a no10 of that ilk.
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We had a long old think about how best to set up that midfield. Tardelli in the centre flanked by two aggressive, highly skilled all-rounders in Van Hanegem and Effenberg is the most aesthetic-looking and symmetrical for sure, but the way we've set it up in our line up is a more accurate depiction of how we see ourselves playing. Van Hanegem was so at home working that left channel the entire length of the pitch, and Tardelli's mobility and stamina is best utilised combating Chris' strong left side. Effenberg's position in the formation diagram was a bastard to decide as his position will have the most variability of the trio. This is essentially our preferred defensive posture. As soon as we regain possession the shape changes, and as we've said in our write up Effenberg will generally be the quickest to burst forward. So it could reasonably be presented as something more like this:

Skizzo-formation-tactics.png

or this:

Skizzo-formation-tactics.png

or a number of other ways really, depending on where Platini has positioned himself and other things.

Hopefully that explains our midfield set up a bit better. Anyway, to reiterate the positives about it:

1) Tardelli helping to defend against Chris' left flank.
2) Three very strong, aggressive ball winners against a possession-orientated philospohy.
3) All comfortable on the ball. Van Hanegem and Effenberg especially will be able to out-manoeuvre the high press, and both have the exquisite range of passing to exploit the gaps a failed high press leaves further back:

 
Another few gifs to show Gullit's effectiveness as a wide attacker:


with this in particular showing the manner in which we envisage both our strikers often positioning themselves out wide and interlinking with Platini:

 
Pat_Mustard said:
We had a long old think about how best to set up that midfield. Tardelli in the centre flanked by two aggressive, highly skilled all-rounders in Van Hanegem and Effenberg is the most aesthetic-looking and symmetrical for sure, but the way we've set it up in our line up is a more accurate depiction of how we see ourselves playing. Van Hanegem was so at home working that left channel the entire length of the pitch, and Tardelli's mobility and stamina is best utilised combating Chris' strong left side. Effenberg's position in the formation diagram was a bastard to decide as his position will have the most variability of the trio. This is essentially our preferred defensive posture. As soon as we regain possession the shape changes, and as we've said in our write up Effenberg will generally be the quickest to burst forward. So it could reasonably be presented as something more like this:

Skizzo-formation-tactics.png

or this:

Skizzo-formation-tactics.png

or a number of other ways really, depending on where Platini has positioned himself and other things.

Hopefully that explains our midfield set up a bit better. Anyway, to reiterate the positives about it:

1) Tardelli helping to defend against Chris' left flank.
2) Three very strong, aggressive ball winners against a possession-orientated philospohy.
3) All comfortable on the ball. Van Hanegem and Effenberg especially will be able to out-manoeuvre the high press, and both have the exquisite range of passing to exploit the gaps a failed high press leaves further back:

Click to expand...


I don't think either van Hanegem or Tardelli are wrong at all, and appreciate not going for the copout of Tardelli in the middle in a limited destroyer role.

What I don't agree with is with Effenberg then being the first to burst forward, you want the other two to do that dovetailing Platini.

Basically, you needed a holding midfielder and got Effenberg, feck knows why. Having two attacking fullbacks further compounds the error. It's a bloddy mess.

That's my fundamental problem with the side, with a more minor issue re: Rummenigge, but with Cabrini there he will be fine. I just think he is doing the inverse to how you portray him, he cuts inside rather than peel wide.
 
On the other hand, I also have major question marks hanging over Goofy and Bale. The front four could be great but after reading "Guardiola/LvG philosophy" seeing those four is mind-boggling. It also looks weird to have Modric on the right and Busquets not operating behind two midfielders but one. Chris effectively doesn't have a midfield that's how I see that playing out. de Boer is a great LvG homage, except he reminds me of many frustrating days watching LvGs Barca. Gullit is probably the worst player he could be up against: he will want it more and bully him around, certainly will win all aerial duels.

So one side is lacking a Desailly to anchor the midfield and shore up the defence (I would play Carsten Ramelow or Edmilson ahead of Effenberg here, which is criminal in an all-time draft). The other side doesn't have a midfield but a gaping hole and major disconnect. The question is which dysfunction will be more hurtful.

Overall, I think if Effenberg's instructions were changed and he was asked to play a holding role he would do it competently enough. And the key relative to other misfits is he would do it. He won't be brilliant, but good enough to keep the side less imbalanced. No amount of instructioning can fix Chris' problems.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
As soon as we regain possession the shape changes, and as we've said in our write up Effenberg will generally be the quickest to burst forward. So it could reasonably be presented as something more like this:

Skizzo-formation-tactics.png
or this:

Skizzo-formation-tactics.png
Click to expand...

Tbh, these are more flawed than your original formation. He has an exceptional attack and you are inviting trouble by opening yourself to a counter. Lucky for you Chris's midfield is still worse than yours.
 
So just to clear a few things up;

Pressing - Every team at some point has to press the ball, I get the idea that people think I want my players chasing them about like madmen. It's not like that. My players are only pressing at some intensity when a player is in an uncomfortable position on the ball, so they increase the chances of winning possession. If not, my team are recovering into a tight, 4411 and waiting until a player is trapped on the wings to press intensely. The diamond favours this a lot, because how are the full backs realistically going to build once the play is forced over there? It's easy to criticise Bale for defensive work ethic, but that's never been an issue for 2 1/2 of the 3 years of his peak and he's hardly defensively incapable in this system.

High Line - Again, there's a lot of space in behind, but ideally it's never going to get used. de Boer is a natural sweeper, Carvalho was the best defender in the world in 2003/04 (officially) who covered in behind and I have two very quick full backs. But as I say, how is Skizzo's side realistically going to exploit it? They're playing a diamond which basically means I outnumber them 5-4. The Ball is forced to the fullback and they're struggling for a ball inside, they've been cut off to play it back to the CB and they're asking the striker to pull on to Thuram. The only possible outlet is Gullit onto de Boer who, whilst he may struggle 1v1 aerially, has Carvalho, Evra and Busquets covering the 2nd ball which outnumbers Platini/Rummenigge. If anything, I'm limiting the defensive work that my players will have to do.

Ronaldinho - You'd struggle to think he was once the best player in the world at one stage in this thread. He's more of a defensively incapable, tactically averse rouge who cannot be tamed. Defensively, he was never renowned for and I'll give you that. However, Totti was an incredible hard working, tireless midfielder. He's very capable of fitting in left of the midfield four and allowing Ronaldinho to do a very simple positional job in front. In terms of going forward, Ronaldinho is an intelligent player. He wants to be on the ball and with a diamond formation, all the space will be outwide. He very often used to stay on the left anyway and wide to receive the ball and then move inside to link up, to where Henry likes to drift left and Evra can bomb forward if needs which gives more than enough of an outlet on the left.

Skizzo defensively - Is already playing right into my hands by sitting off into his own half. He's essentially giving time for my defenders to bring the ball out of defence and pick their passes. This will effectively allow me to get my creative players into the game a lot closer to his goal. The left hand side is clearly where I will get the most joy - Dinho, Henry and Evra forming a flexible trio around Amoros, who is player is renowned for his offensive play and is at his happiest when in possession.

Modric - I'm puzzled why him on the right is a problem? From my experience he's mostly seen at RCM;

Modric-heatmap.png
 
ChrisG11 said:
Modric - I'm puzzled why him on the right is a problem? From my experience he's mostly seen at RCM;
Click to expand...

I've always thought of him better on the left. But that is not your major problem. Against a physical midfield that you are facing, I don't see neither of them making any impact here. Rui Costa is a far better option linking your midfield and attack than Totti. Personally I would take of Totti/Henry and replace them with Rui Costa/Batigol.

.......Batigol.......
.Dinho........Bale
.......Rui Costa.....
.Modric...Busquets.

is far more balanced and simpler/easier to understand. I can understand your intnetion of a free flowing game which does suit your players, but high press tactics is not something that you should go for, imo.
 
For me it all goes down to Totti here. I don't see him as a number 10 who will be a third midfielder and if he's not a third midfielder then Busquets-Modric looks very weak both in quality and tactically. It is made even worse when Skizzo has maybe the strongest central midfield in the draft with that square.

Effenberg and Tardelli will turn it into an ugly physical battle which Modric and Busquets won't enjoy while Hanegem and Platini puts the nail in the coffin by providing excellence on the ball.

I think Chris should have went for a team that soaked up pressure here when he had three great counter-attacking players. Bale even fills a great role of pure pace and penetration and his work rate is usually enough to compensate for Cristiano on the other side.
 
Annahnomoss said:
For me it all goes down to Totti here. I don't see him as a number 10 who will be a third midfielder and if he's not a third midfielder then Busquets-Modric looks very weak both in quality and tactically. It is made even worse when Skizzo has maybe the strongest central midfield in the draft with that square.

Effenberg and Tardelli will turn it into an ugly physical battle which Modric and Busquets won't enjoy while Hanegem and Platini puts the nail in the coffin by providing excellence on the ball.

I think Chris should have went for a team that soaked up pressure here when he had three great counter-attacking players. Bale even fills a great role of pure pace and penetration and his work rate is usually enough to compensate for Cristiano on the other side.
Click to expand...

Wim was no whimp.
 
Annahnomoss said:
And Effenberg and Tardelli are nowhere near poor on the ball either! But you catch the drift. Skizzo's midfield is excellent and it is the by far weakest part for Chris.
Click to expand...

It's far from excellent, Effenberg is the wrong player to have there. It won't matter here, but it would in other games.
 
antohan said:
It's far from excellent, Effenberg is the wrong player to have there. It won't matter here, but it would in other games.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Ended up with a few too similar players in there. Didn't want to limit Tardelli by throwing him into a DM role...But effenberg got the short straw since we felt he could dictate a little better there, and that Tardelli was better off closer to goofy.

Fortunately, it still happens to work here since the opposition midfield would struggle to impose themselves at all. We would need a reshuffle going forward though, should we go through.
 
Skizzo said:
Agreed. Ended up with a few too similar players in there. Didn't want to limit Tardelli by throwing him into a DM role...But effenberg got the short straw since we felt he could dictate a little better there, and that Tardelli was better off closer to goofy.

Fortunately, it still happens to work here since the opposition midfield would struggle to impose themselves at all. We would need a reshuffle going forward though, should we go through.
Click to expand...

Imo, Tardelli is better defensively and Effenberg is better offensively. You'd have a fight if he subs in Rui Costa, but apart from that this is yours.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Imo, Tardelli is better defensively and Effenberg is better offensively. You'd have a fight if he subs in Rui Costa, but apart from that this is yours.
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be the copout way around it. Fact is Tardelli will be better where he is, even better than Effenberg there for the simple reason he played there week in week out alongside Michel and will be better on the right channel than Effenberg (whom I don't remember playing in a role where he had to push out wide). The whole "the threat is Goofy so the more defensive on the right ain't bad" is an afterthought as far as I'm concerned.

Basically, if you have the problem Skizzo has I prefer seeing one player playing at the peak of his powers than two players played suboptimally. The midfield is perfect bar Effenberg, that's it, swap Effenberg with a holding midfielder (one that can drop into defence if needs be seeing as the two fullbacks are attackign ones) and he is sorted. I wouldn't even consider touching the other three, they are final ready.
 
I really think Krankl would be the way better fit for the left forward role instead of Rummenigge in Skizzo's team. You should play one of Gullit or Rummenigge on the right and as crazy as it sounds, bench the other one. I simply can't see your attack working well, it's a clusterfeck.

Krankl also had quite a few musical highlights in his popstar career, you don't even need to make gifs, just post youtube videos:



I've no idea why he thinks he's Batman, but it was a big hit in Austria.
 
antohan said:
On the other hand, I also have major question marks hanging over Goofy and Bale. The front four could be great but after reading "Guardiola/LvG philosophy" seeing those four is mind-boggling. It also looks weird to have Modric on the right and Busquets not operating behind two midfielders but one. Chris effectively doesn't have a midfield that's how I see that playing out. de Boer is a great LvG homage, except he reminds me of many frustrating days watching LvGs Barca. Gullit is probably the worst player he could be up against: he will want it more and bully him around, certainly will win all aerial duels.

So one side is lacking a Desailly to anchor the midfield and shore up the defence (I would play Carsten Ramelow or Edmilson ahead of Effenberg here, which is criminal in an all-time draft). The other side doesn't have a midfield but a gaping hole and major disconnect. The question is which dysfunction will be more hurtful.

Overall, I think if Effenberg's instructions were changed and he was asked to play a holding role he would do it competently enough. And the key relative to other misfits is he would do it. He won't be brilliant, but good enough to keep the side less imbalanced. No amount of instructioning can fix Chris' problems.
Click to expand...

We did bid on Desailly actually, but there was some confusion after someone went over budget and we didn't get back on that wagon until it was too late. Agree he'd have been ideal for us. Disagree on the extent of the midfield issue though - I wouldn't have Edmilson anywhere near the team in place of Effenberg. As it stands our line up is a bit messy and less than optimal but I wouldn't call it dysfunctional.
 
Balu said:
I really think Krankl would be the way better fit for the left forward role instead of Rummenigge in Skizzo's team. You should play one of Gullit or Rummenigge on the right and as crazy as it sounds, bench the other one. I simply can't see your attack working well, it's a clusterfeck.

Krankl also had quite a few musical highlights in his popstar career, you don't even need to make gifs, just post youtube videos:



I've no idea why he thinks he's Batman, but it was a big hit in Austria.
Click to expand...


:lol: at that video! I somewhat agree regarding our attack - there was an element of trying to crowbar both the big names into the line up as we weren't sure how Krankl would be received.
 
Annahnomoss said:
For me it all goes down to Totti here. I don't see him as a number 10 who will be a third midfielder and if he's not a third midfielder then Busquets-Modric looks very weak both in quality and tactically. It is made even worse when Skizzo has maybe the strongest central midfield in the draft with that square.

Effenberg and Tardelli will turn it into an ugly physical battle which Modric and Busquets won't enjoy while Hanegem and Platini puts the nail in the coffin by providing excellence on the ball.

I think Chris should have went for a team that soaked up pressure here when he had three great counter-attacking players. Bale even fills a great role of pure pace and penetration and his work rate is usually enough to compensate for Cristiano on the other side.
Click to expand...

Cheers Annah!
 
Pat_Mustard said:
:lol: at that video! I somewhat agree regarding our attack - there was an element of trying to crowbar both the big names into the line up as we weren't sure how Krankl would be received.
Click to expand...

Ah, I didn't know you had Krankl. What Balu says make sense. It did strike me as odd that you had Gullit and Rummenigge when I would rather have either on the right and a striker on the left. It was an odd pair to pick along with Platini.

With Krankl there maybe Rummenigge is the better partner, although I did like what Gullit was doing battering de Boer and knocking it down for Michel/Kalle.
 
antohan said:
Ah, I didn't know you had Krankl. What Balu says make sense. It did strike me as odd that you had Gullit and Rummenigge when I would rather have either on the right and a striker on the left. It was an odd pair to pick along with Platini.

With Krankl there maybe Rummenigge is the better partner, although I did like what Gullit was doing battering de Boer and knocking it down for Michel/Kalle.
Click to expand...

Aye, basically when we were undecided on our final formation I got drunk and decided that we should bid for Gullit IIRC. Then at the last minute we decided we at least needed the option of a more traditional centre forward, and I've had a significant man crush on Krankl for awhile. Skizzo left the final decision on the line up to me this time around and to be honest I probably should have dropped Rummenigge. I just had no idea how Krankl would be received, and Chris' excellent attackers, and the fact they're all recent, memorable names, made me opt for the more recognised player. I'm absolutely satisfied that Platini would work brilliantly with Gullit OR Rummenigge, but both isn't ideal, and sat worse with me than our midfield trio which I honestly think would work well enough. Not that 'well enough' would cut it at the sharp end of an all-time draft of course.
 
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