Obi isnt close to that level of talent. Obviously.
Chido Obi Martin
- Thread starter holdsteady
- Start date
I don't think that age or inexperience is really the issue, if we feel that he is good enough then he should be getting a chance because of just how bad we are in attack. Rashford was just 18 when he got a chance and he never looked back. Nwaneri has been playing games for Arsenal already and he is only 17.
Of course it does. It tells us how head coaches other than our own sees the situation.
It’s not that long a history. The ones who do it, like Rooney, are exceptional talents. While Obi does look promising, he is far from a Rooney at 16.
I wouldn’t mind seeing him or Biancheri on the bench but I don’t see either as the answer to our goal-scoring worries this season.
People want shiny new toys or hope one player can come and be a savior.
They were raving over Garner, Hannibal, Iqbal and so many others, even Pellistri was used as a stick to beat the manager « why dont we play youth ».
Even Mainoo is now being criticised on the Caf. Im not even talking about Garnacho who’s getting a lot of stick, and it was already obvious Garnacho was above youth level
There is a reason some of these young players are not thrown in the first team. You have to be an exceptional player to fast track to the 1st team at 16. Most players, even very talented ones, need time to develop physically, technically and tactically
Chido is physically not ready.
No way is he ready. I'm all for promoting some wild cards from the youth setup though.
Haha, like what do people think is the worst that can happen from putting him in a squad to maybe come on when other avenues are exhausted with 10/15mins to go. It's not as if Zirkzee and Hojlund are pulling up trees in general/defensive play. Two 6ft3ers that can't win a header between them and in Hojlund's case is routinely ragdolled by smaller defenders.
The U18s literally cannot stop winning and are not psychically damaged like the rest of this cursed team. Literally no downside to trying it and giving these guys important minutes. Jose Mourinho literally found the most untalented midfielder in the academy and forced him into the team to spite Paul Pogba and others he felt weren't trying. As much as McTominay was never my favourite player, after a couple of seasons of doing nothing, he became a serviceable PL player with a knack for scoring important goals. The guys we're talking about have much better youth reputations.
Because he was physically ready. This while also refusing to play the most talented midfielder in the academy. Oh and McTominay definitely wasn’t the most untalented one. Far from it.
Højlund and Zirkzee are physically a few levels above Obi who is yet to make his mark at U21s level.
Anyhow I hope and believe he will get his chances in first team training soon and then it’s up to him to convince the staff.
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Yeah, I exaggerated a little for emphasis but he was the worst academy player I've seen get regular minutes at the club. His first performances were absolute non-events although to his credit in following seasons he at least made himself a nuisance.
Not sure I get the physicality argument with Chido when he's an absolute unit and is really quick too. Hojlund is really poor at using his physicality and Zirkzee has no top line speed. Neither player can leverage their physicality to create separation against PL defenders and are chronic at set pieces so its a bit of moot point.
Also to be clear, I'm not saying Chido/Biancheri should be the new starting 9 but clearly both have a nose for goal/ability to get on the end of chances and it'd be more of a case of trying something different rather than repeating the same patterns.
Just seen his performances vs bigger teams like PSV. Against men he will struggle.
But goalscoring is a lot about instinct as well. There are so many games where we need a goal at the end and surely it would be good to give one of the kids a chance rather than throwing in trashy mid fielders and centre backs. We have so little goal threat in the team
How many players 17 year old or younger have made an impact in the history of the P.L ? As for using Rooney as an example - Rooney was a grown man at the age of 14, I doubt I will ever see someone with a physique like that in my lifetime again. But even more important - the majority of the young players who break through, do it in teams who are established and working. If we were where Liverpool or Arsenal are today, maybe we could have done it in the odd game.
And just to put things into perspective - when Michael Owen made his breakthrough - he was 17 years and 8 months playing for the club he had player for all his life, in a fairly established team with lots of experienced players....
Chido is 17 years and 1 month - has played for United all of 3 months, has been in England for what...a few years ? For a team that is utter garbage with almost no experienced players. Sure - it seems fair to throw him in - so the press can have a go at him as well.
Agree, with the types of tackles flying about in the PL, Chido with his thin physique could suffer some serious injury.
Assume Chido and Nwaneri must have played together in Arsenal youth teams, how do the two compare? (Don’t actually know the age difference between the 2)
Nwaneri is a generational talent. Chido is a solid striker that needs a lot of work and time to progress his game.
Nowadays, it's no longer enough to say someone has potential to be world class, no, it must be something hyped like a gEnErAtIoNaL talent amongst the likes of Messi or Ronaldo.
If anything, isn't "generational talent" a more tangible descriptor than "potential to be world class?" Nobody can agree on what constitutes a world class player, but a generational talent is simply one of the best players of the generation in which they happen to come through. Plus we can tell who the best players of their generation are in the present. We can't tell who the potentially best player is until it's no longer potential.
How do you define a generation? Would it be Gen Z/ Gen alpha? Or would it be "class of 92" perhaps? All these terms are meaningless but generational talent is more American sounding than most.
There’s too many ‘generational talents’ for it to mean much. We have at least 2 in our squad in Mainoo and Yoro.
Is your issue with the futility of meaning or the Americanisation of terminology? I can honestly sympathise with either, however it's the use of ThIs kInD oF tExT that I find more offensive than either, hence my pedantry regarding the quoted post.
Just thought you might answer the question tbf. Never mind.
Ah okay, sorry. I did not intend to take my annoyance out on you. I'd have thought a class of 92 or that Barcelona thing that happened would qualify, myself. Broadly speaking, a generation would cover a small number of years, and should a player happen to be the best of that generation, it would surely stand to reason that their talent stood out out. Generationally so.
So Nwaneri is 3 months older (I think) than Yamal, does it only stop him being a generational talent if they're at the same club?
So a generation is a small number of years? Like what? 3 years? 4 years? 5 years?
Aren’t players labelled generational talent too soon? Players can be world class, but generational talents are players like Messi and Ronaldo right? Or Xavi and Iniesta. And Mbappe in the future if he can pick up his form again.
Isn’t the reality that a generational player can only be defined retrospectively?
To be pedantic, the term initially used in this debate was “generational talent”, not “generational player”. Those are two different things.
If a player is showing an exceedingly rare level of talent in a particular age group, “generational talent” seems like a reasonable, albeit overused, term. That does not mean, however, that they are destined to go on to become a generational player, which I agree, you would only really be able to determine at a later stage of their career. Many things can prevent a generational talent from turning into a generational player (injury, attitude, lack of application/work ethic/professionalism, family issues, addiction issues, unexpectedly poor physical development etc).
An obvious example is Ravel Morrison. Everyone who saw him or played with him tended to rave about his talent being at an outrageously high level that would seemingly qualify as “generational”, yet none of those people would ever describe him as a generational player because he failed to turn that talent into any sort of meaningful football career.
Sancho and greenwood were widely considered generational talents on this forum, so assume Nwaneri will only take a break from video games to do some raping
oof!I don't see how that tracks. Try again.
No, that was my point. Try again.
Yeah, that's more like it.
Yeah, that text drives me insane. I always assume the people that use it don’t go outside much.
Christ
I'm sorry my friend but you seem to have stumbled into the wrong place. This thread is obviously the hideout of people who would be better served posting on a Z-list sociology forum or a mock exam for reading comprehension. Your reasonable and considered views on football won't be welcome here. Your ability to understand a point is making you stick out like a sore thumb - it's frankly embarrassing.
Also, that Chido is alright ain't he?
Both are rated very highly, but Nwaneri was always regarded as the better talent by Arsenal fans. They play in different positions, but they've always spoken more highly of Nwaneri. The fact that he's fully integrated with Arsenal's senior team at 17 under Arteta, who is not regarded as someone to give youngsters much of a chance, proves he's a really special player.
That doesn't mean Chido isn't extremely highly rated. I think he was only second to Nwaneri. Anyway, at this point in development, hype only means so much. James Wilson was rated much higher than Kane, so make of that what you will.
The counter argument is that strikers take longer to get to their peak. Chiz is about a decade away from the traditional peak years.
Look at mainoo and how he's rated on the Caf?
I seem to recall McTominay being brought in and made to play at CB for a few games, I think Jose was trying to make a point that he wanted a new CB
Desperate to see him in the first team.
Morrison was an insane talent - the first time I saw Morrison play - think it was a FA Youth Cup game against Chelsea. As I recall Morrison was 15 years old, playing with Macheda, James, Welbeck, Brady, Norwood...all of them 2-3 years older. He was by far the best player on the pitch
Morrison was definitely a generational talent but he didn't have the mentality. Seen him once in Old Trafford Shrewsbury street, on a kids BMX with studs, just hanging around with some rough looking kids doing jack all. At a time when the senior team would be training. Had to do a double take as couldn't believe what I was seeing.
A generation is every 20 years.
He was great as a youth player but couldn't do it as an adult.
No his attitude was completely wrong - but the talent was above everyone else I have seen in the 20+ years I have watched our youngsters regularly
A
greed he was Neymar level, they called him the English Neymar. Rio and Pogba give him big praise. He was considered a better prospect than Pogba.