Can anyone explain how United's player recruitment strategy works?

[fastwalker]

This is one that has baffled me for a while. I get that scouting networks have always been the bread and butter of player recruitment strategies, but in the modern game there are also increasingly sophisticated inputs that shape decision-making. Performance stats, injury record, age, Premier League experience, contractual status and many other factors inform how a club approaches its transfer business.

I am guessing with the size of our club and the massive resources at our disposal, we should have the most extensive scouting networks in the world and one of the best performance analytics teams in the game. Again, I am guessing this is the case but I am struggling to see much evidence of this in our recruitment business. The likes of Verane, Ronaldo, Cavani, Van de Beek and Sancho are all either great or (in the case of VdB and Sancho) potentially great players, but hardly hidden gems in the world of player recruitment. Even Bruno was a well established name in European football, who prior to joining United was linked to Spurs, Liverpool and Real Madrid.

But where is evidence of our transfer strategy successfully targeting and scooping up those players who are under the radar or underrated?

How have Liverpool, one of our biggest rivals, been able to pull off some amazing transfer business and turn underrated players into world class players right under our noses. Why aren't we picking up the Diogo Jota, Sadio Mane or Mohammed Salah equivalents? What are they doing in terms of their player recruitment strategy that we are not doing?

Can anyone even explain how United's player recruitment strategy works?

 

[Oranges038]

I think this sums it up nicely.

Spoiler

 

[Skills]

Its still quite heavily based on the current manager.

Its why we spent the Moyes year chasing Fellaini, Baines, Bale, Fabregas & then Kroos. We dropped almost all of them (even when the likes of Fabregas became available the summer after) when LVG came in and instead went for players like Blind, Rojo, Schweinsteiger and co.

That all changed again when Mourinho came in who wanted to work with Zlatan, Pogba (he was after at Chelsea), Mkhitaryan, Matic & Lukaku.

I think Mourinho's first two summers made the club change a bit - they saw the likes of Fabinho go to Liverpool (who the club was scouting), instead for an older Matic and decided it wasn't necessarily the best policy. Since Solskjaer, its been the transfer committee - with the manager having a veto. Though admittedly, under this structure I'm not sure who actually brings the transfer targets to the table. And it also, raises a question on what Solskjaer actually did.

In my opinion, the way to go is to remove the head coaches quite far away from recruitment. The only input, i'd be interested in would be - exact positions the head coach would like to strengthen. But the club doesn't necessarily have to follow that recommendation.

Remember, Manchester United can not choose what player will become available on the market in any given summer or transfer window. Players cost 100s of million pounds, so the club needs to operate opportunistically. You get the best value you can in a given summer, and if the players you've now got as a group don't fit your manager or coach - just sack him, and get one who does, especially if said coach shows he doesn't have the talent or ability to adapt.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Despite the huge amounts of money spent, we actually try to be really cheap which in the end costs us more.

Examples:
Alexis Sanchez
Ronaldo
Schweinsteiger
Matic
Mata
Mhikitaryan
DVB
AWB

Everyone we go for is either on the wrong side of their career so we get on a ‘bargain’ or they are young and unproven yet we pay world class money for their ‘resale’ value.

We should try and ‘spend to save’ which means spending a bit more for just a few guaranteed world class players and building around them. In our attempts to be cheap we are just spending more than anyone else to keep fixing the previous mistakes. Mistakes after mistakes.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

Despite the huge amounts of money spent, we actually try to be really cheap which in the end costs us more.

Examples:
Alexis Sanchez
Ronaldo
Schweinsteiger
Matic
Mata
Mhikitaryan
DVB
AWB

Everyone we go for is either on the wrong side of their career so we get on a ‘bargain’ or they are young and unproven yet we pay world class money for their ‘resale’ value.

We should try and ‘spend to save’ which means spending a bit more for just a few guaranteed world class players and building around them. In our attempts to be cheap we are just spending more than anyone else to keep fixing the previous mistakes. Mistakes after mistakes.

To be fair Mata, Mhki and Sanchez were supposed to be in their absolute primes when we signed them. Same for Di Maria, Lukaku

 

[ManchesterManchester]

To be fair Mata, Mhki and Sanchez were supposed to be in their absolute primes when we signed them. Same for Di Maria, Lukaku

I didn’t include Di Maria or Lukaku as they were both in their prime and good enough.

Sanchez was way over the hill, had hardly scored and completely lost his pace in the 6 months previous to us signing him. Mata was also way past his prime which is why Chelsea were selling him. Mhki was just never even good enough hence why he didn’t cost a lot in terms of what you would expect to pay for a world class talent.

 

[Skills]

I didn’t include Di Maria or Lukaku as they were both in their prime and good enough.

Sanchez was way over the hill, had hardly scored and completely lost his pace in the 6 months previous to us signing him. Mata was also way past his prime which is why Chelsea were selling him. Mhki was just never even good enough hence why he didn’t cost a lot in terms of what you would expect to pay for a world class talent.

Are you taking the piss?

He was 25 years old, and just had the best season of his career. He left because Mourinho preferred a workhorse like Oscar - who's top level career pretty much finished, when Mourinho was gone from Chelsea too.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Are you taking the piss?

He was 25 years old, and just had the best season of his career. He left because Mourinho preferred a workhorse like Oscar - who's top level career pretty much finished, when Mourinho was gone from Chelsea too.

That’s where you have it wrong because you are focusing on his age not his performances. He had lost his magic touch early, not all players age the same (Rooney, Kaka, Torres are prime examples). He was voted their best player for 2 years in a row ffs. You think they would get rid of him if he was still performing like that?

Name me one season he had with us that was better than any of his seasons at Chelsea? He was past his best just accept it.

 

[OleGunnar20]

Spoiler

 

[Abraxas]

From what I have read I believe we do have a massive scouting network worldwide and some kind of centralised analytics. So there is nothing out of the ordinary there.

But somehow between that and the manager/powers that be coming to a final decision on targets there appears to be a disconnect.

It's hard to say exactly what, the reports could be duff, but this is unlikely due to the reasons you identify, we mostly go for obvious to semi-obvious targets where the extrapolations being made on their ability shouldn't be that difficult.

It could be that we are risk averse within our overall strategy which means the scouting does its job but then we ignore certain profiles of signing.

Could simply be too much responsibility given to the manager who maybe is too overburdened to accurately assess the amount of data and find the best signing. We have also had ill-suited managers which increases this risk as they were struggling with all aspects of the job. It also means you have manager signings rather than club signings which creates a randomness and lack of direction which doesn't help new signings to perform.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

I didn’t include Di Maria or Lukaku as they were both in their prime and good enough.

Sanchez was way over the hill, had hardly scored and completely lost his pace in the 6 months previous to us signing him. Mata was also way past his prime which is why Chelsea were selling him. Mhki was just never even good enough hence why he didn’t cost a lot in terms of what you would expect to pay for a world class talent.

Mata was sold because of Mourihnho not because he was past his best. Mhki definitely did look good enough at dortmund he was putting up crazy assist numbers.
Well Pep didn't seem to think Sanchez was finished as he wanted him at City too, it's easy now with hindsight to Say Sanchez was finished but at the time a lot of us thought he'd win us the champions league

 

[Lentwood]

1) We don't understand the profile or type of player we are trying to sign.

2) Similarly, we're still obsessed with the idea of individuals instead of profiles. Instead of saying 'we need a holding midfield player who can break-up attacks, is quick across the ground and comfortable on the ball', we say 'we need Declan Rice', for example.

Other clubs would identify 10+ players who fit the profile and then work out some of the softer factors - What's their price/availability? Do they speak English? Who is their agent? What's their injury history etc...etc...We seem to go 'we want Sanco/Pogba/Varane/Maguire' etc...at all costs and we pay a hefty price as a result.

3) Our scouting network might be large, but do they understand what they are looking for? Are they all clear on what the brief is, and are they aware of what a 'Manchester United' player looks like in 2022?

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Mata was sold because of Mourihnho not because he was past his best. Mhki definitely did look good enough at dortmund he was putting up crazy assist numbers.
Well Pep didn't seem to think Sanchez was finished as he wanted him at City too, it's easy now with hindsight to Say Sanchez was finished but at the time a lot of us thought he'd win us the champions league

Wasn’t hindsight, many people identified Sanchez was on the way down. My best friend supports Arsenal and it was evident he had lost all pace.

You say Mata wasn’t on the way down? Why was he unable to replicate his Chelsea form for us then? Surely time has proven you wrong there

 

[allen7]

I understand this club always looks for a business angle in every deal.
So its mostly like buy players who can generate revenue directly or indirectly.

 

[Ayoba]

Usual collapse.

We're gonna lose this one

 

[Giggsy13]

Social media clicks. Results on the pitch completely secondary.

 

[LARulz]

It doesn't work....

We have no strategy. We had 2 managers with a clear idea (rightly or wrongly) of what they wanted but the squad they needed never came because the guys at the top had no idea how to do transfers and wanted big names. Then we gave Ole a chance to just try and do whatever he wants

We had no idea what we wanted from top to bottom except wanting instant results. But that didn't happen either

We have done the equivalent of throwing a bunch of puzzle pieces on the table and hoping it will magically fix itself into place

 

[MiceOnMeth]

Wasn’t hindsight, many people identified Sanchez was on the way down. My best friend supports Arsenal and it was evident he had lost all pace.

You say Mata wasn’t on the way down? Why was he unable to replicate his Chelsea form for us then? Surely time has proven you wrong there

Because Mata was managed by Moyes and then the extremely pragmatic LVG I guess. Mata should have been much much better for us as our record signing at the time but alas.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

Because Mata was managed by Moyes and then the extremely pragmatic LVG I guess. Mata should have been much much better for us as our record signing at the time but alas.

Fair enough, good points. An elite manager would of utilised him and the team much more. At least he did contribute a bit and has a few memorable moments so he wasn’t a total failure I suppose.

 

[Adnan]

Our recruitment department has only been on par with our rivals since 2018. And what I mean by being on par is the personnel and departments that have been created to support the people setting the direction at the club. The first team manager has been setting the direction when it comes to the first team and the recruitment department has had control of the youth side of the club from what I gather.

The problem is a very simple one imo and I've been highlighting it on here for 5 years now. And that problem is that the Manager is given too much control when it comes to shaping the team in his image. Under Moyes and LVG we didn't have the recruitment departments and personnel to support them, so I can understand the club going along with the manager model due to a out-dated football structure that needed modernising.

But right now it seems like we're now in a position where the DoF/head coach model is a real possibility and we have the departments (scouting/data analytics) to support that head coach. We haven't appointed a coach post Fergie who had a clear idea on how to implement a proactive play style, which resonates with the modern game.

The scouts can only make recommendations, and it's the decision makers at the top who decide which players will be signed and how they will be used. Mike Phelan was Harry Maguire's coach at Hull City, so as far as scouting the player goes, he was the one that had scouted him thoroughly, and he was also on the transfer committee. The head coach being on the transfer committee is fine but he shouldn't be allowed to have his assistant and personal scout, also on the transfer committee. There's the flaw along with the head coach also being allowed to set the footballing blueprint.

Give our scouts the task of finding second contract players who fit into a compact high block with emphasis on either possession play or quick vertical transitions with applying pressure off the ball also a consideration, and you'll see the difference in the profile of player we bring in.

 

[choccy77]

According to Ralf today, Uniteds priority is a striker in the summer.

There goes signing a DM of which we have needed for the last 5 years+

 

[glazed]

Everyone we go for is either on the wrong side of their career so we get on a ‘bargain’ or they are young and unproven yet we pay world class money for their ‘resale’ value.

This is the long and short of it. Put simply these are commercial decisions and not football decisions which means we end up with a much weaker squad than the money spent would suggest. But the asset value and therefore the share value of the club remains high, which matters more to the Glazers than results on the field. Which is how we find ourselves in the present difficulty. The question is why would the owners do this when it clearly causes long term damage?

Ironically the root problem is not the Glazers but the fans. Because the bulk of the fans will continue to pay for the product regardless of quality (what economists call inelastic demand) the suppliers of the product (the Glazers) have an economic incentive to degrade the product right down to the point where that is no longer true. That point appears to be Champion's League qualification most years.

 

[Betson]

It doesn't work , that is the issue.

You would get better results than we have for the crazy money we have spent if you had a lad looking at the morning papers each day to see who other clubs are after.

 

[Mickeza]

We don’t actually have a system so without a system how can you build up a profile and know what you want from a signing? We’d never sign a wijnaldum or a Jota for this very reason. I have no doubt our scouting network is massive - we’ve done great work signing some top young prospects - and I don’t think any of the signings we’ve made the last 4 years are bad players on an individual level. They’re just a mish mash that don’t fit together.

 

[the_cliff]

What strategy ?

We get rid of Mourinho in favour of the youth (Pogba, Martial, Rashford, etc..), bring in Ole, (United DNA blah blah) promote the youth, play our young players, then go on to sign a 34 year old CF and a 37 year old CF and loan out the 'young' players we persisted with Ole and sacked Mourinho for.
Then we sack Ole.

 

[PoTMS]

Media drums up our interest in an overrated English player. After "extensive" research, our scouts come to the conclusion the player is actually decent. Woodward/Judge pay over the odds after the Glazers' sanction a big money star signing. Said player turns out to be shit.

 

[wolvored]

Our recruitment department has only been on par with our rivals since 2018. And what I mean by being on par is the personnel and departments that have been created to support the people setting the direction at the club. The first team manager has been setting the direction when it comes to the first team and the recruitment department has had control of the youth side of the club from what I gather.

The problem is a very simple one imo and I've been highlighting it on here for 5 years now. And that problem is that the Manager is given too much control when it comes to shaping the team in his image. Under Moyes and LVG we didn't have the recruitment departments and personnel to support them, so I can understand the club going along with the manager model due to a out-dated football structure that needed modernising.

But right now it seems like we're now in a position where the DoF/head coach model is a real possibility and we have the departments (scouting/data analytics) to support that head coach. We haven't appointed a coach post Fergie who had a clear idea on how to implement a proactive play style, which resonates with the modern game.

The scouts can only make recommendations, and it's the decision makers at the top who decide which players will be signed and how they will be used. Mike Phelan was Harry Maguire's coach at Hull City, so as far as scouting the player goes, he was the one that had scouted him thoroughly, and he was also on the transfer committee. The head coach being on the transfer committee is fine but he shouldn't be allowed to have his assistant and personal scout, also on the transfer committee. There's the flaw along with the head coach also being allowed to set the footballing blueprint.

Give our scouts the task of finding second contract players who fit into a compact high block with emphasis on either possession play or quick vertical transitions with applying pressure off the ball also a consideration, and you'll see the difference in the profile of player we bring in.

Didnt Jose and Ole have their own scout on top of that as well? I seem to remember reading they had their own man, which with all the other parts of the scouting network you mentioned seems odd.
Anyway lets hope with Woodward gone and Arnold not getting involved (too much) with the footballing side, things might be different (hopefully) from this summer. It looks like Ten Hag is the favourite choice of Arnolds as well, according to the media which is excellent if it comes off. It will also go against the whims of the players, who want Pocc as they probably see him as an easy ride.

 

[Tyrion]

That’s where you have it wrong because you are focusing on his age not his performances. He had lost his magic touch early, not all players age the same (Rooney, Kaka, Torres are prime examples). He was voted their best player for 2 years in a row ffs. You think they would get rid of him if he was still performing like that?

Name me one season he had with us that was better than any of his seasons at Chelsea? He was past his best just accept it.

Mourinho didn't like him. That doesn't mean he was past his best as Mourinho doesn't like lots of good players. The fact that his best seasons came at Chelsea is more down to the general mess we were/are than him being past his prime at 25.

 

[Greck]

That several people got in a room and said a player like Maguire or AWB was suitable for the style we would use going forward is baffling, that these individuals were our transfer committee points to the club being in critical condition. Our main problem is having no system but with or without one you should already know what types of defenders fit into progressive high line, control tactics. They went after the names and irrelevant considerations like Nationality over fit and quality. Reform the committee asap or just scrap it. If the goal was to break the club away from galactico signings they bungled that task.

 

[Adnan]

Didnt Jose and Ole have their own scout on top of that as well? I seem to remember reading they had their own man, which with all the other parts of the scouting network you mentioned seems odd.
Anyway lets hope with Woodward gone and Arnold not getting involved (too much) with the footballing side, things might be different (hopefully) from this summer. It looks like Ten Hag is the favourite choice of Arnolds as well, according to the media which is excellent if it comes off. It will also go against the whims of the players, who want Pocc as they probably see him as an easy ride.

Jason Burt of the Telegraph reported that Mourinho was using his independent scouts to sign players. And Ole had Simon Wells as a personal scout as well as having his assistant Mike Phelan on the transfer committee, as reported by The Athletic.

We also heard news about Mourinho being vetoed from signing Maguire, Boateng, Alderwereild etc. And he was vetoed by Bout, Court and Lawlor, according to some reports. A year later the club goes ahead and signs Maguire for Ole and Phelan, which for me was the first sign of the club's own recruitment staff being undermined.

It doesn't matter how good your scouts are if you then appoint someone in a different department (the manager)to lead the football side, when it comes to setting a blueprint.

 

[Greck]

Jason Burt of the Telegraph reported that Mourinho was using his independent scouts to sign players. And Ole had Simon Wells as a personal scout as well as having his assistant Mike Phelan on the transfer committee, as reported by The Athletic.

We also heard news about Mourinho being vetoed from signing Maguire, Boateng, Alderwereild etc. And he was vetoed by Bout, Court and Lawlor, according to some reports. A year later the club goes ahead and signs Maguire for Ole and Phelan, which for me was the first sign of the club's own recruitment staff being undermined.

It doesn't matter how good your scouts are if you then appoint someone in a different department (the manager)to lead the football side, when it comes to setting a blueprint.

That's why we need strong football leadership. Saying no to a manager at United requires cajones and a strong will from the inevitable fan backlash for not "backing the manager". Lord remember the days of Neville riling up fans with "who is woodward to say Maguire isn't worth the price?". At United if the manager says 2 plus 2 is 5 then no one else is allowed to say no. Woodward was right but it's Woodward so people used mob logic to conclude he was wrong and had no business doing so.

 

[wina87]

Mourinho didn't like him. That doesn't mean he was past his best as Mourinho doesn't like lots of good players. The fact that his best seasons came at Chelsea is more down to the general mess we were/are than him being past his prime at 25.

Your post actually answers this thread. If Mourinho didn't like Mata , why is he still here then ? The answers is , at United managers don't have much say for transfers , whether in or out. Because If the transfer was up to Mourinho the likes of Mata , Pogba ,Martial , Shaw would be long gone.

 

[fastwalker]

I understand this club always looks for a business angle in every deal.
So its mostly like buy players who can generate revenue directly or indirectly.

To be honest and sadly, I think you might have nailed it there. Like you I think the revenue generating and 'brand value' potential is likely to be a major factor in United's player recruitment 'strategy'. How dispiriting if this is actually the case. Surely football considerations should be first, second and last. Does the player's performance stats stack up? Does the player fit into the managers style of play? Do they bring the requisite level of experience or potential? Do they have the right temperament or attitude? Commercial considerations should not even being part of the recruitment conversation. The bleeding of one into the other can only but compromise the ability of the manager to bring in the players that he needs to do his job.

 

[Tyrion]

Your post actually answers this thread. If Mourinho didn't like Mata , why is he still here then ? The answers is , at United managers don't have much say for transfers , whether in or out. Because If the transfer was up to Mourinho the likes of Mata , Pogba ,Martial , Shaw would be long gone.

United shouldn't have let Mourinho have much say in anything tbh. He also wanted Maguire iirc.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Woodward Google’s footballers and bids for for the one who got the most social media buzz that we can afford

 

[DomesticTadpole]

According to Ralf today, Uniteds priority is a striker in the summer.

There goes signing a DM of which we have needed for the last 5 years+

Don't think it was when he first took over, but who could predict the Greenwood business, then Ronaldo and Cavani being so unproductive. Think we do need a striker but also a midfielder.

 

[Chairman Steve]

I posted this in the Jota thread but I’ll post it here since it’s more relevant.

The Utd approach the past few years involves lines like these being thrown around internally:

• “Hey guys, who’s good for this basic position? First name that comes to your heads only please”
• ”Who’s marketable out there? We could do with another revenue stream for merchandising“
• ”I don’t care if he doesn’t fit the current system. Find a way!”

 

[Reapersoul20]

We got that octopus that was predicting the world cup right a few years ago to point at players. The issue is that the octopus died, so it's not as effective as it used to be.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Recruitment is the hardest thing.

That being said, a lot of time, we are reactive, not proactive in our approach or targeting of players.

We also, because of our financial might, don't really take commercial care in the deals we finalise and that's fine, we can afford a few mistakes, but so many takes its toll.

 

[sparx99]

Fair enough, good points. An elite manager would of utilised him and the team much more. At least he did contribute a bit and has a few memorable moments so he wasn’t a total failure I suppose.

Mata never got played as a no 10 during those first few seasons either. His best years at Chelsea we’re as a no 10. We signed him and out a player with no pace on the RW. He should have been played behind Rooney or Van Persie or both.