British managers at top 6 clubs

B20

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Looking at the appointments of top six clubs in the past 16 years (when city was bought).
  • Mark Hughes, Manchester City
  • Roy Hodgson, Liverpool
  • Tim Sherwood, Tottenham
  • Kenny Dalglish, Liverpool
  • Brendan Rodgers, Liverpool
  • David Moyes, Manchester United
  • Frank Lampard, Chelsea
  • Graham Potter, Chelsea
Brendan Rodgers is the only one to who look capable of handling such a job and he couldn't keep that going after the second season. Dalglish aside, they were all succeeded by foreign managers who did far better than they ever did.

8 British appointments in a decade and a half among six clubs really isn't much, but when you look at what they achieved, it isn't surprising really. And they were the cream of the crop.

Looking a bit further, we can perhaps include Eddie Howie at Newcastle, given he did guide them to a top four finish.

Meanwhile, six Italian managers have managed the top six in the same period and won 3 league titles and a CL title.

Why such a dearth of managerial talent in the UK?
 
Dyche, McKenna, Cooper, Howe, Martin and O'Neil are all current PL managers. The bolded are all pretty highly rated.

You then have people like Potter, Moyes, Carrick, Parker, Still, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Edwards who are all sniffing around either that Mid-table to upper Championship level.

I think that it's getting better, still not quite of the level of quality as others but I think Martin and Mckenna have very good potential in regards to top 6 club aspirations.
 
SilentWitness said:
Dyche, McKenna, Cooper, Howe, Martin and O'Neil are all current PL managers. The bolded are all pretty highly rated.

You then have people like Potter, Moyes, Carrick, Parker, Still, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Edwards who are all sniffing around either that Mid-table to upper Championship level.

I think that it's getting better, still not quite of the level of quality as others but I think Martin and Mckenna have very good potential in regards to top 6 club aspirations.
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God love you SilentWitness you're going to get slaughtered for including the Golden Generation boys.
 
It's like when you go out to buy furniture and you know you could buy something from argos or ikea and you realise something called Motsvarig or Grundalla sounds a lot more interesting than Oak Pine or Norfolk.

The appeal of the exotic is palpable and filters down to every strand of the club - from the board room to the ticket booth.

People come from far and wide to see this crazy collection of characters parading the touch line in their eccentric ways. If they wanted to see David Moyes they could just go to work and have a chat with Billy the regional manager. Same vibe.

Players also respect managers who they hardly understand. They have to pay extra attention, like when you have a foreign teacher at school and you're not sure if your usual hi-jinx will sit right so you clam up for a few lessons, plotting and scheming.

Lots of things really.
 
I think there's a generational shift going on. A lot of the British guys who were managing in the 2000s for instance had a similar profile - schooled by the game in the '80s and '90s - all playing a similar brand of hard-working, defensive, counter-attacking football. Very few were exposed to the game or managers in different countries. As that generation has gotten old or drifted down the table/leagues, there has been a gap until the next lot come through. What we are seeing though now are new prospects emerging, players and coaches who were exposed to the step-change in the game that happened post 2008. And alongside that we have seen greater respect for managers riding on their reputation as coaches and not simply as the popular ex-pro.

Alongside that the Premier League clubs have become less tolerant of average management. I imagine the likes of Gerrard and Lampard would have longer managerial careers in the PL of 10-20 years ago. Now they've failed once and they are unlikely to get another shot. The clubs have brought in superior talent at both ends of the table. There are no hang-ups over bringing in foreign managers which was a regular navel-gazing thing back in the day. That too has squeezed the space for British managers as the standards have risen.
 
B20 said:
Brendan Rodgers is the only one to who look capable of handling such a job and he couldn't keep that going after the second season. Dalglish aside, they were all succeeded by foreign managers who did far better than they ever did.
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Brendan Rodgers couldn’t keep it going because he lost the player who made him look like someone capable of handling such a job.
Suarez was the only reason Liverpool competed that season, he made Sturridge look like one of the best players in the league.
 
LankyHoggie said:
Brendan Rodgers couldn’t keep it going because he lost the player who made him look like someone capable of handling such a job.
Suarez was the only reason Liverpool competed that season, he made Sturridge look like one of the best players in the league.
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Absolutely. he was horrible with transfers. and a terrible man manager.

he still managed to find a modern system of attacking football that got the most of out Suarez+the others for one season. Which is more than can be said for any of the others.
 
I think Potter was very hard done by and any manager would have struggled with the Clearlake shambles that season. As seen when Lampard took over and won 1 in 11. He's still getting paid 200k a week until October by us, which I guess is a reason why he's not taken another job yet. Howe is a decent manager as well with potential to do well with a top 6 club.

Most of the ex English players who could have been good managers, don't have the right attitude to start at the bottom and learn the job. They all seem to start near the top based on their name then fail spectacularly because playing and managing are totally different jobs and they've haven't got a clue what they're doing.
 
Not sure if Brendan Rodger’s truly qualifies as ‘British’ as not everybody from NI identifies as such.

UK (and Irish) manager if you must, but maybe not ‘British’.
 
Gio said:
I think there's a generational shift going on. A lot of the British guys who were managing in the 2000s for instance had a similar profile - schooled by the game in the '80s and '90s - all playing a similar brand of hard-working, defensive, counter-attacking football. Very few were exposed to the game or managers in different countries. As that generation has gotten old or drifted down the table/leagues, there has been a gap until the next lot come through. What we are seeing though now are new prospects emerging, players and coaches who were exposed to the step-change in the game that happened post 2008. And alongside that we have seen greater respect for managers riding on their reputation as coaches and not simply as the popular ex-pro.

Alongside that the Premier League clubs have become less tolerant of average management. I imagine the likes of Gerrard and Lampard would have longer managerial careers in the PL of 10-20 years ago. Now they've failed once and they are unlikely to get another shot. The clubs have brought in superior talent at both ends of the table. There are no hang-ups over bringing in foreign managers which was a regular navel-gazing thing back in the day. That too has squeezed the space for British managers as the standards have risen.
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I think that's a fair point. But I don't know how it will go in the future, back then retired players had more of a financial necessity to stay within the game, they weren't as well paid and not financially setup for life. You have a generation of footballers now who are pretty much set for life by the time they hit mid 20s.

I think perhaps you're going to see less and less top players becoming coaches and managers going forward, most kids now are in academies from 7/8 years of age, by the time they are finished playing they'll have been doing nothing but focusing on football for almost 30 years. Financially well off and after that long in the game most will be happy enough to get on with a life outside of football.
 
B20 said:
Why such a dearth of managerial talent in the UK?
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Putting it in a simplistic way they are just not good enough for today's game.

In the PL they always got chances(at least at smaller clubs), imagine them being hired abroad, look at what G Neville and Moyes did in Spain. At top clubs there is no room for mediocrity so they will get fewer and fewer chances unless they prove their worth somewhere first.
Whereas spanish or italian managers come here and dominate the league.

For me at least it just looks that british managers are way behind tactically, if it's the schools they go at, the preparation, the courses they take, their staff, that I don't know.
 
doubleohseven said:
Not sure if Brendan Rodger’s truly qualifies as ‘British’ as not everybody from NI identifies as such.

UK (and Irish) manager if you must, but maybe not ‘British’.
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He's referred to himself as both British and Irish in the past. Don't think he cares much either way, going on his explicit disinterest in the catholic/protestant divide.
 
It's money to a large degree. PL clubs can pick the best managers and players from elsewhere. Italian managers were mentioned in the OP.

Mancini had 3 Serie A titles and 4 Italian Cups when hired by city. We had Everton able to get Ancelotti! Conte with Serie A titles. Ranieri never won much before Leicester but had obviously been at big clubs in big leagues.

If you've got the money to hire managers with CVs like that, or hire British managers that did fairly well at the wrong end of the table in the Premier League who are you going pick?

Don't get me wrong the British managers have not done well when given the chance either, but they're competing with the best in the world. If there was less money in England they might be just as crap but we'd probably perceive them as being better as they'd end up with more chances and they would end up winning trophies.
 
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