British + Irish Draft: Chester vs Lynk (Group C)

Who will win assuming all players are at their peak?


  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,405
Location
Interweb
..........................................Team Chester.........................................................................................Team Lynk..........................................
2i8f44.jpg
0tzaqhs.png


Chester said:
What I'm going for here is a variation on the 4-2-4, the formation most commonly associated with the great Brazil side of '58. There are distinct differences, however, between my take on this classic formation and the Brazilian model. Matt Busby favoured the 4-2-4 too – and if anything my variation resembles his Manchester United more than Brazil, whilst not using either side as a blueprint. It's a specialized 4-2-4 with certain key elements.

Perhaps the most important of these is the role of Johnny Haynes. As the arrow (who doesn't love a good arrow?) indicates, Haynes will drop deep here – and he will do so regularly. This will allow him to use his passing range to the fullest: In what we may call the second striker position which is his default one (and which reminds us of his younger, inside forward incarnation), Haynes' main function will be that of hitting the ball short, at Dean in the middle – but not least at the ghost-into-the-box wingers, both of whom excel at precisely this sort of game: Bastin and Jackson are high scoring wingers who like nothing better than to get on the end of a through ball from a withdrawn forward: What you get here – with due respect to the great man – is an upgrade on the famous James-to-Bastin-and-into-the-net formula which was so effective for Arsenal; an upgrade I say, because Johnny Haynes is an even more clinical passer than Alex James.

Haynes' other function, however, is as stated above to drop deep, which is perfectly natural for him: He drops down further into the hole, so to speak, taking up positions from where he can ping long balls out to the wingers – who will then, simply, seek to cross: The opposite winger drifts (or rather runs, hopefully – no sense in jogging about sluggishly) into the box to join the man many consider the most dangerous header of the ball in the history of the game. Ideally, Edwards has made one of his runs at the same time, while Haynes drifts (runs!) back into his default space and beyond, leaving the opponent to deal with four men in the box as Bastin or Jackson takes aim from out wide. Well worth to note here that Dean isn't just a direct threat in the air, but an indirect one too, as it were: Heading the ball down for Jackson or Bastin (or anyone else who has managed to get into the box) is a very plausible alternative, should he be unable to finish directly.

Should be a goal or two in there somewhere.

Notes on Jackson and Bastin:

Cliff Bastin was the outside left (left winger to you) in Chapman's celebrated Arsenal side of the late 20s/early 30s. He was a right footed left winger (like Waddle in that regard) whose main strengths were his dribbling and his ability to ghost into the box and finish off attacking moves. He was a technically brilliant, highly aggressive player, always seeking to get past his man - and into dangerous areas.

Alex Jackson is one of the great dark horses of British football history: A player who was regarded by many as the best in the world at the height of his powers, a dribbling wizard and a goal scorer, but also a highly accurate crosser of the ball. He was transferred for record fees, liked his champagne off the pitch, was very much the playboy - and basically fecked up his career at the tender age of 26. In Scotland's great win over England in 1928 he was the star of the show: As the Wembley Wizards hammered England 5-1 (in English football history only the loss to Hungary in '53 compares to this humiliation), Jackson scored a hat-trick and at that point he was, as the papers said, the most discussed footballer of the century.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2014/nov/16/forgotten-story-alex-alec-jackson-scotland-chelsea

Addendum on Dean: While being something of an ultimate goal getter, Dean has qualities which are seldom highlighted but nevertheless characteristic of his game: He was very good at setting up his team mates with short, precise passes – which will give Bastin and Jackson an alternative to the Haynes through ball: They can play their ghost-into-the-box game with both Haynes and Dean being second-to-last on the ball. This obviously isn't Dean's main feature as a player – he is there to finish, first and foremost – but it's a quality of his which will come in handy on top of his finishing.

Roles of central midfielders: Edwards plays a box-to-box role, Crerand holds. The latter's role is very similar to the one he often played for Busby: Fairly conservative as such. Crerand, however, is an excellent passer, which comes in handy when building up attacks. Edwards' role is much freer – he operates box to box, using both his incredible physical presence and his brilliant on-the-ball skills as required, where required.

Defence: Marshaled by Billy Wright, they defend. That is their main function here. The attacking part is well taken care of by others. Two things to note, however: Byrne is more than capable of venturing forward a bit, should the occasion arise. And Woodburn likes to carry the ball out of defense, as the build-up begins: This is an important feature of his game – so I won't deny him the chance to showcase it here. He's a ball playing sort of defender, much before his time in that regard, which makes him an ideal foil for Wright. Pat Rice is a no frills, ultra dependable fullback. He will go quietly about his business here, staying tight on whoever he's marking, focusing on the defensive side of things.


In short:

It's an offensive approach, decidedly so. I plan on outscoring the other guy and I'm not overly concerned should he manage to grab a goal. Grinding out 1-0 wins is clearly a waste of my players' talents anyway. Still, for those who immediately think a 4-2-4 formation is too ultra offensive to stand a realistic chance, I point again – as I did to begin with – to Haynes' role. When he drops, as he will all the time, the nominal formation becomes either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 of sorts. Haynes isn't a striker but a playmaker, so keep that in mind.
 
Lynk said:
Team Selection

Pat Jennings - Arsenal and Northern Ireland's greatest ever goalkeeper. PFA Player of the Year, absolute rarity for a goalkeeper


Viv Anderson - A member of cloughs double European Cup winning team, moved to Arsenal and then United. Won everything in the game. Hugely underrated right back
Tony Adams - Arsenal's greatest ever defender. Strong in defense and a leader
John Terry - Chelsea's greatest ever defender. Won everything in the game. Voted 5 times into the World XI more so than any defender in this category.
Jackie Carey - Ireland and Manchester United FA Cup winning captain. Played in 10 positions during his playing time. John Giles called him the greatest Irish left back over Irwin.

Roy Keane (Captain) - Talismanic leader of Manchester United's greatest era. Won more trophies than any other captain. Metronomic passer with extraordinary stamina and work rate.
Billy Meredith - Football's first superstar. Played until his 50's. Extraordinary crossing ability and dribbling, could play anywhere in the midfield or forward line
Damien Duff - UEFA team of the year 2002, tricky winger who won two Premier League titles at Chelsea.
Chris Waddle - One of England's greatest creative players. Left footed who was equally adept at attacking midfield or on the right cutting in.

Ivor Allchurch -


"Ivor never needed a number on his back for identification. His polish, his class could not be missed. He vies with the greatest of all time, yet he has a modesty that becomes him"

Sir Matt Busby - Manchester United Manager

"He was a great player, with footballing presence and charisma"

Sir Bobby Charlton - England and Manchester United Midfielder

"One of the best inside-forwards I have ever played against"

Bobby Moore OBE - England and West Ham Defender

Robbie Fowler - 6th highest goalscorer in Premier League history, one Liverpool's greatest striker. Between 1994-1997 scored 98 goals in 150 games.



Tactics:
System I will use:
4-1-2-1-2: Keane occupying the defensive midfielder role protecting Adams and Terry, Waddle as the two wingers tucked in. Allchurch in the number 10 positon with Fowler and Meredith up front, a lethal combination of pace and finishing

Points of Strength:
-My formation is flexible, while providing a solid spine. In fact my original formation started with Allchurch up front instead of Meredith. Allchurch, Meredith, Duff and Waddle were all capable in more than 2 positions.
- The spine of my team is strong. Keane, Adams, Terry, Jennings.
- Leadership and big game performers. Keane, Adams, Terry, Jennings, Meredith. All of these men are leaders, and are capable of overturning teams that may be stronger on paper but weaker in mentality. Mentality is key to football, these players are all good enough on their own terms as well.
- As good as Dean was in the air, Adams and Terry are two of the best headers of the ball in the game. They will negate balls into the air.
- I feel Allchurch, Meredith and Fowler might all prove to be too much for Chester's backline. I have the perfect mix of creativity, speed and finishing.

Defense: Experienced, solid defenders. Jennings is one of the best keepers in the draft. Terry and Adams are two of the greatest centre halves in British history. One part of Terry's game which goes unpraised is his supply from the back, he is good with the ball at his feet. Anderson and Carey will provide support for the midfield and forward with their pace.

Midfield: Keane will operate in front of the back four and dictate play. His stamina and workrate will break up any build up and add further protection to Adams and Terry. Duff and Waddle will provide the necessary pace and creavity. Allchurch operating in the hole is the role which suits him best, it allows him to be a threat, yet provide for his strikers.

Attack: Fowler and Meredith, I can see Meredith operating in the Robben role akin to Van Gaal's 2014 Dutch team. He's a left footer playing on the right of the front two, which suits him best. He is known to have played up front, so this isn't a unfamilar position for him. His goal record speaks for itself. Fowler will play as a classic 9, looking for spaces and making runs.
 
Despite all, I cannot see the value of a 4-2-4 against more modern formations.

Surely the system adds value to players as good players in wrong system are doomed to fail.

Chester having the right players is what stops me from voting atm.
 
What I said on EAPs diamond:

But EAP's side really works for me. It's so cohesive and well balanced... I can imagine exactly how they would go about things and they would play some really beautiful football.

I suppose there will be much discussion on his midfield and whether it isn't too gung-ho. I would usually think that when it's a really random assortment but those four look and feel like a unit to me, would love to watch them in possession. Maybe they would struggle against other midfields, but not the one faced here.

Lynk's don't look or feel like a unit to me and I can't really see them flowing. Like I've also said a zillion times, I don't like Keano stuck as a holding midfielder.
 
Lynk's don't look or feel like a unit to me and I can't really see them flowing. Like I've also said a zillion times, I don't like Keano stuck as a holding midfielder.

The diamond is flexible, it depends on the flow of the game. Look at Carrick last weekend, he was the "holding player" but he got forward when it suited him. Same with Pirlo playing for Italy at the Euro's and the World Cup. Keane's passing ability and work rate makes him work in this role.

What other part doesn't feel like a unit? Allchurch was a creative inside forward, the pre-cursor to the attacking midfielder. Waddle played attacking midfield. Meredith played frequently up front. My back 4 is solid as it gets. I don't see them leaking much goals.
 
Despite all, I cannot see the value of a 4-2-4 against more modern formations.

Surely the system adds value to players as good players in wrong system are doomed to fail.

Chester having the right players is what stops me from voting atm.

That's your prerogative. I think it's a rather limited point of view, to be honest. I'm going for this formation because this is an all time draft - I wouldn't have done so if it wasn't and I wouldn't have done so if I didn't think the opponent's players and set-up allow me to get away with being so offensive.

Lastly, as I say very clearly in the OP, this is a variation on a theme, it is not a Brazilian style 4-2-4: My fullbacks are very conservative (though in this match I think Byrne will have more occasion to venture forward a bit than he did in the last match), I field a DM and a B2B who is defensively as useful as they come, and my inside forward isn't as much a striker as an offensive midfielder: If you want to call it a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1 or even a 4-5-1, then feel free to do so (nominally it's all of those things, more or less).
 
Last edited:
The diamond is flexible, it depends on the flow of the game. Look at Carrick last weekend, he was the "holding player" but he got forward when it suited him. Same with Pirlo playing for Italy at the Euro's and the World Cup. Keane's passing ability and work rate makes him work in this role.

What other part doesn't feel like a unit? Allchurch was a creative inside forward, the pre-cursor to the attacking midfielder. Waddle played attacking midfield. Meredith played frequently up front. My back 4 is solid as it gets. I don't see them leaking much goals.

Frankly, I think that's a bit tenuous: None of those players look like a natural fit apart from Allchurch (I can easily see him doing well as the tip of the diamond): Keane is not a Carrick style player at all and both Waddle and Duff are wingers for my money - even if you call them side midfielders, they're not the sort of players you want in a diamond. Not for me, anyway.

And Meredith is a right winger - that is very obviously his best role. I could reasonably claim that out of six midfielders/forwards, you're fielding four men who are either playing out of position or in a position which is clearly not their best.
 
Frankly, I think that's a bit tenuous: None of those players look like a natural fit apart from Allchurch (I can easily see him doing well as the tip of the diamond): Keane is not a Carrick style player at all and both Waddle and Duff are wingers for my money - even if you call them side midfielders, they're not the sort of players you want in a diamond. Not for me, anyway.

And Meredith is a right winger - that is very obviously his best role. I could reasonably claim that out of six midfielders/forwards, you're fielding four men who are either playing out of position or in a position which is clearly not their best.

I'm not comparing Carrick to Keane, I'm saying Keane could be utilized there. His passing and defensive game was good enough. He certainly played there for Ireland and later on in his United career. Waddle and Duff definitely could operate in a diamond, Waddle played in attacking midfield along with the wings and Duff dropped in to the middle to add numbers for Ireland.

Meredith - "In his career Meredith was muchly operated as a winger, where he could do the most damage to the opposition, but could also be used as a striker."
Adam Carpenter - http://manchesterunitedlegends.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/billy-meredith/

Meredith will be on the right of a front two. Similar to Robben in the 2014 World Cup. He could make wide runs depending on the flow of the game.
 
Which leads me to your team. You have essentially no cover for Edwards or Crerand. @TomClare always said if Edwards were to play today he would play wide left. While I'm not doubting he could play centrally, he didn't regularly play there. Edwards would be limited by having to cover your defense, he wouldn't be able to make his roaming runs. Haynes is an inside forward, but he's playing really high in relation to your midfield.


With the four in the diamond I don't think a resricted Edwards or Crerand stand much chance. They would get over run by the pace of my midfield and forward line. Who would pick up Allchurch?
 
Last edited:
The diamond is flexible, it depends on the flow of the game. Look at Carrick last weekend, he was the "holding player" but he got forward when it suited him. Same with Pirlo playing for Italy at the Euro's and the World Cup. Keane's passing ability and work rate makes him work in this role.

Carrick was playing against almost non-existent opposition that day. Pirlo always has hardworking midfielder(s) covering for him, he is a very unique player who requires a certain system. And Keane isn't a deep-lying playmaker like them. Not a great examples.

He can play there (and people tried to utilize him there or as a DM in every draft that I've seen so far :lol:), but it's obviously not his best role and it's strange not to play your best player in his best position - especially when there are a few players out of position as well there.
 
I'm not comparing Carrick to Keane, I'm saying Keane could be utilized there. His passing and defensive game was good enough. He certainly played there for Ireland and later on in his United career. Waddle and Duff definitely could operate in a diamond, Waddle played in attacking midfield along with the wings and Duff dropped in to the middle to add numbers for Ireland.

Meredith - "In his career Meredith was muchly operated as a winger, where he could do the most damage to the opposition, but could also be used as a striker."
Adam Carpenter - http://manchesterunitedlegends.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/billy-meredith/

Meredith will be on the right of a front two. Similar to Robben in the 2014 World Cup. He could make wide runs depending on the flow of the game.

Well, "where he could do most damage to the opposition" seems to be the salient part of that, no?

I'm not saying Keane absolutely, positively cannot play that role - I am saying that it clearly is not his best (if you want to use the older Keano here, who even featured as a CB for us on occasion, then hey - but I don't think he has the legs to be of much use to you in a top level setting). And the same goes for Meredith. As for Waddle and Duff - they are attackers, very much so: Waddle in particular doesn't have a defensive bone in his body and he is anything but a hard worker. Duff is tenacious and will certainly try his best, but he doesn't have much defensive nous either. What you want in a diamond is a pair of wide-ish midfielders who complete each other in terms of offensive/defensive balance (think something along the lines of Seedorf and Gattuso) - what you have is (I says it again, sorry) a couple of highly offensive wingers: They're out of their depth in those roles.
 
Well, "where he could do most damage to the opposition" seems to be the salient part of that, no?

I'm not saying Keane absolutely, positively cannot play that role - I am saying that it clearly is not his best (if you want to use the older Keano here, who even featured as a CB for us on occasion, then hey - but I don't think he has the legs to be of much use to you in a top level setting). And the same goes for Meredith. As for Waddle and Duff - they are attackers, very much so: Waddle in particular doesn't have a defensive bone in his body and he is anything but a hard worker. Duff is tenacious and will certainly try his best, but he doesn't have much defensive nous either. What you want in a diamond is a pair of wide-ish midfielders who complete each other in terms of offensive/defensive balance (think something along the lines of Seedorf and Gattuso) - what you have is (I says it again, sorry) a couple of highly offensive wingers: They're out of their depth in those roles.

But who is going to defend against them? You're limiting Edwards by placing him in the middle of a 4-2-4. If you are using him, like you said, in a box to box role, then you are only leaving Crerand as the definitive holding player.


If both teams are kamikaze as implied by earlier queries of your formation, I personally back my team with Adams, Terry being covered by a tenacious Keane.
 
Carrick was playing against almost non-existent opposition that day. Pirlo always has hardworking midfielder(s) covering for him, he is a very unique player that requires a certain system. And Keane isn't a deep-lying playmaker like them. Not a great examples.

He can play there (and people tried to utilize him there or as a DM in every draft that I've seen so far :lol:), but it's obviously not his best role and it's strange not to play your best player in his best position - especially when there are a few players out of position as well there.

I think it is a difficult situation that occurs mainly when the manager thinks he will lose if he uses the formation he wanted to from the start. In Lynk's case it was Keane-Barry which was getting no love - so he felt a need for a change to have a chance at all and played a high risk game. The manager kind of has to believe in his own team winning, the only time I've seen someone really not thinking they'd win themselves and trying to persuade with all their powers was me last draft against you.

So people will often end up saying slightly untrue and misleading things to try and get the win.
 
Last edited:
The diamond is flexible, it depends on the flow of the game. Look at Carrick last weekend, he was the "holding player" but he got forward when it suited him. Same with Pirlo playing for Italy at the Euro's and the World Cup. Keane's passing ability and work rate makes him work in this role.

What other part doesn't feel like a unit? Allchurch was a creative inside forward, the pre-cursor to the attacking midfielder. Waddle played attacking midfield. Meredith played frequently up front. My back 4 is solid as it gets. I don't see them leaking much goals.

I know Keano has the attributes to hold, but that's not his natural game. I rate Keano higher than Stiles, but I would sooner have Stiles there. What Carrick could do against Hull is pretty irrelevant really seeing as it is Hull, and Michael Carrick is nothing like Keane.

So that's my first oddity.

Then you have two wingers/AMs playing the side roles in the diamond. I know we have now got used to how a Di María can make that work, but it's an exceptional feat, not the norm at all. For my money, Brady and McManaman were the sort I could see pulling it off, but not Duff and Waddle. In FM/PES or whatever, the acronyms for their roles would be quite similar -if not the same- but it doesn't mean they went about things the same way or that their tactical disposition was the same. Midfielder-like vs. Forward-like, if you will. I know, not a very good or technical explanation.
 
Which leads me to your team. You have essentially no cover for Edwards or Crerand. @TomClare always said if Edwards were to play today he would play wide left. While I'm not doubting he could play centrally, he didn't regularly play there. Edwards would be limited by having to cover your defense, he wouldn't be able to make his roaming runs. Haynes is an inside forward, but he's playing really high in relation to your midfield.


With the four in the diamond I don't think a resricted Edwards or Crerand stand much chance. They would get over run by the pace of my midfield and forward line. Who would pick up Allchurch?

What? If you regard him as an inside forward, he plays as an inside forward - he isn't "too high" in relation to anything. And part of his game - an essential part of his game - is to fall down into deeper positions, in order to use his passing range: This is clearly stated in the write-up.

I don't need cover for Crerand - he's not making any wild runs forward.

As for Edwards, he was a left half: In modern parlance that makes him a midfielder. What sort of midfielder obviously depends on his individual qualities. If you're trying to portray him as being played out of position here, then I can only say that this simply isn't the case.
 
What? If you regard him as an inside forward, he plays as an inside forward - he isn't "too high" in relation to anything. And part of his game - an essential part of his game - is to fall down into deeper positions, in order to use his passing range: This is clearly stated in the write-up.

I don't need cover for Crerand - he's not making any wild runs forward.

As for Edwards, he was a left half: In modern parlance that makes him a midfielder. What sort of midfielder obviously depends on his individual qualities. If you're trying to portray him as being played out of position here, then I can only say that this simply isn't the case.
I'm not saying Edwards is playing out of position, I'm saying you can't expect to play a 4-2-4 against a modern formation and expect one of your midfielders to be box to box. Edwards can't do his mazy deep starting runs if it leaves one midfielder to shield the back four. It will force Edwards to sit deep and that limits him.
 
I think it is a difficult situation that occurs mainly when the manager thinks he will lose if he uses the formation he wanted to from the start. In Lynk's case it was Keane-Barry which was getting no love - so he felt a need for a change to have a change at all and played a high risk game. The manager kind of has to believe in his own team winning, the only time I've seen someone really not thinking they'd win themselves and trying to persuade with all their powers was me last draft against you.

So people will often end up saying slightly untrue and misleading things to try and get the win.

Yeah, I know that situation, well, I've been there in the last draft. It's a bit harsh on Lynk but I really can't see a formation which gains him an advantage here - kudos for trying something different though.
 
I know Keano has the attributes to hold, but that's not his natural game. I rate Keano higher than Stiles, but I would sooner have Stiles there. What Carrick could do against Hull is pretty irrelevant really seeing as it is Hull, and Michael Carrick is nothing like Keane.

So that's my first oddity.
I'm saying the notion that the deepest player of the back four is static is nonsense. Conditions in the game dictate it. Keane's greatest abilties were his intelligence, his passing and his stamina. 4-4-2 was the formation of choice when Keane was at his peak, but the game moved on, and an older inferior Keane still showed he could play deeper.
 
I'm not saying Edwards is playing out of position, I'm saying you can't expect to play a 4-2-4 against a modern formation and expect one of your midfielders to be box to box. Edwards can't do his mazy deep starting runs if it leaves one midfielder to shield the back four. It will force Edwards to sit deep and that limits him.

And? It's a bit daft to argue that when you only have one midfielder who can defend at all, all the time, for the entire 90 minutes. And only a few posts ago you too had him making surging runs like Carrick against Hull. :wenger:
 
And? It's a bit daft to argue that when you only have one midfielder who can defend at all, all the time, for the entire 90 minutes. And only a few posts ago you too had him making surging runs like Carrick against Hull. :wenger:
Jesus, where did I say Carrick made surging runs? Stop posting if you're gonna misquote me, or if in your case, are gonna take it personal. It's not your game, there's no need to act like a fecking dickhead.
 
I'm not saying Edwards is playing out of position, I'm saying you can't expect to play a 4-2-4 against a modern formation and expect one of your midfielders to be box to box. Edwards can't do his mazy deep starting runs if it leaves one midfielder to shield the back four. It will force Edwards to sit deep and that limits him.

Sure he can - why not? He can't do it all the time - and he won't either.

It's offensive, yes - as stated. Kamikaze? I wouldn't go quite as far as that. But alright, let's look at it in terms of, say, player contribution then: I have Crerand holding, plus a back four who are per default conservative (they're mainly there to defend and the likelihood of them being caught out is slender). I then have Edwards surging forward when the opportunity comes around - not constantly and headlessly (he was a very mature player for his years, let's not forget). On the opposite side we have Keano limited (there we can talk about true limitation) to the anchor role - and in front of him three offensive/ultra offensive players who do not offer much at all in terms of keeping up with anyone in a defensive capacity.

If you want Waddle and Duff to contribute here - to bring their actual strengths to the table - you need to play an incredibly risky game yourself. And if you don't want them pushing up, they're left to fill roles they have no business filling.
 
Sure he can - why not? He can't do it all the time - and he won't either.

It's offensive, yes - as stated. Kamikaze? I wouldn't go quite as far as that. But alright, let's look at it in terms of, say, player contribution then: I have Crerand holding, plus a back four who are per default conservative (they're mainly there to defend and the likelihood of them being caught out is slender). I then have Edwards surging forward when the opportunity comes around - not constantly and headlessly (he was a very mature player for his years, let's not forget). On the opposite side we have Keano limited (there we can talk about true limitation) to the anchor role - and in front of him three offensive/ultra offensive players who do not offer much at all in terms of keeping up with anyone in a defensive capacity.

If you want Waddle and Duff to contribute here - to bring their actual strengths to the table - you need to play an incredibly risky game yourself. And if you don't want them pushing up, they're left to fill roles they have no business filling.
If it's end to end, offence against offence, I back my defence as the stronger of the two.
 
If it's end to end, offence against offence, I back my defence as the stronger of the two.

I've got nothing against your defence, mate - it's a strong line, no doubt. A minor point would be that I'd ideally have Carey on the right - but I say it's minor, because Carey could play all over the shop, really, and I've no doubt he'll do a fine job on the left too.

In an end-to-end scenario, however, you have to take into account how well suited the rest of your team are to deal with my boys breaking up your play and turning the tables on you:

You need Waddle and/or Duff to push up into their, say, natural positions in order to threaten me: Allchurch serving Fowler (who is a dangerous finisher, no doubt, but not among the very best players in the draft) and Meredith (who isn't playing in his best position) won't be enough in itself - this is very clear, the very numbers speak against it, nevermind the quality of the players involved). If you lose the ball whilst on the attack, you have Keano protecting your defence and that's it - Waddle and Duff are practically useless in a defensive capacity and the higher up the pitch they find themselves, the worse off you are.

If I lose the ball whilst on the attack, I have Edwards high up the pitch in a worst case scenario (Crerand is holding, that's his designated role, so he won't be caught out), but he is infinitely better suited to track back compared to Waddle/Duff.

As for the sheer quality of our respective attacking players, I feel that my front trio, served by Haynes (who is yet again the stand-out playmaker and passer on the park), constitute a significantly greater goal threat than what you can offer: You have Fowler, I have Dixie Dean. You have Meredith playing centrally, I have two natural, high scoring wingers, playing in a set-up which is perfect for them.

Well, that's it - I have to be off now. And I'm tired of bragging about my players.

Good luck for the rest of the match, mate - I'll be checking in again tomorrow to see how it stands.
 
Last edited:
Duncan had everything. He had strength and character that just spilled out of him on the field. I'm absolutely sure that if his career had had a decent span he would have proved himself the greatest player we had ever seen. Yes, I know the great players Pele, Maradona, Best, Law, Greaves and my great favourite Alfredo di Stefano, but my point was that he was better in every phase of the game. If you asked such players as Stanley Matthews and Tom Finney about Duncan their answers were always the same: they had seen nothing like him.

Duncan could do anything. If the goalkeeper kicked the ball downfield, he would be heading it, if there was a corner kick he would be knocking the ball in, and if someone was running through he would be the one to dispossess him. So many times he made the rest of us feel like pygmies.

- Charlton
 
Jesus, where did I say Carrick made surging runs?

Surging runs/moving forward, same shit really as far as leaving the defence unprotected is concerned.

The diamond is flexible, it depends on the flow of the game. Look at Carrick last weekend, he was the "holding player" but he got forward when it suited him. Same with Pirlo playing for Italy at the Euro's and the World Cup.

Stop posting if you're gonna misquote me, or if in your case, are gonna take it personal. It's not your game, there's no need to act like a fecking dickhead.

I'm not taking it personal, I thought the :wenger: gave away I was just having a laugh at how you applied one logic to you and another to your rival. Anyhow, let's leave it at that, I know how it is to be fighting a losing battle and it isn't nice at all.

FWIW I wouldn't have minded Barry-Keane in midfield, not at all. You get the best Keane and Barry is a better shield to your defence than Waddle and Duff combined.
 
FWIW I wouldn't have minded Barry-Keane in midfield, not at all. You get the best Keane and Barry is a better shield to your defence than Waddle and Duff combined.

I was just thinking this. My first thought was a straight 4-4-2 with Keane/Barry in middle, but that would mean dropping one of Allchurch or Meredith, so settled for a 4-3-3 instead.
 
I was just thinking this. My first thought was a straight 4-4-2 with Keane/Barry in middle, but that would mean dropping one of Allchurch or Meredith, so settled for a 4-3-3 instead.

Same as last game really. It's by no means a sure thing, but would run Chester closer and make it a lot more about the relative quality of attack vs. defence, where Lynk may well have a point. I don't know really, as I said in the last game, I'm quite lost as to how Chester works upfront and don't really have the time to read up on them chaps enough to get remotely interested in them. Would have probably abstained at worst, but that midfield just looked like it was wasting 2/3 out of 11 players, so it wasn't hard to see Chester winning it. You don't win games playing square pegs in round holes across your midfield.
 
Same as last game really. It's by no means a sure thing, but would run Chester closer and make it a lot more about the relative quality of attack vs. defence, where Lynk may well have a point. I don't know really, as I said in the last game, I'm quite lost as to how Chester works upfront and don't really have the time to read up on them chaps enough to get remotely interested in them.

It ain't that fancy, really. Basically, I have two tricksters who like to A) beat their man when on the ball and B) ghost into the box when they don't have the ball. They're old school wingers in the sense that they excel at dribbling and crossing (Jackson more so than Bastin when it comes to crossing), but more like modern tucked-in wingers in the sense that they do not hug the line at all - they drift inside frequently. And they are finishers - goal scorers, used to getting on the end of through balls (and crosses) as they cut inside.

Dean's role should be clear: He's a number nine, essentially. He possesses certain qualities which makes him less one-dimensional than a pure goal grabber, though: He is a decent short passer (suits that cut-inside/ghost-in-the-box game of Jackson's and Bastin's) and he isn't stationary: He can drift out wide, making it harder to mark him.

Haynes' role should be clear too: He's there to pass the ball to team mates in dangerous positions, whether that be centrally (finding Dean or playing through balls for Bastin or Jackson to latch on to) or out wide (dropping deep, playing the long pass to either winger). And Johnny Haynes is an absolute fist rate passer of the ball, lest anyone should doubt that. I can't bother to post a bunch of quotes stating he's the dog's bollocks (I could bore you all to death with anecdotes that resemble that bloody yarn about Scholes and the tree), but he's widely recognized as a maestro of passing, both long and short.

...and THAT does it for me, I need to get some things sorted before hitting the hay (yet another bloody early start tomorrow).

See you all tomorrow.
 
It ain't that fancy, really. Basically, I have two tricksters who like to A) beat their man when on the ball and B) ghost into the box when they don't have the ball. They're old school wingers in the sense that they excel at dribbling and crossing (Jackson more so than Bastin when it comes to crossing), but more like modern tucked-in wingers in the sense that they do not hug the line at all - they drift inside frequently. And they are finishers - goal scorers, used to getting on the end of through balls (and crosses) as they cut inside.

Wide forwards, basically. It's more the rating though, I just gathered they were in Chapman's Arsenal, I know little about them other than being legendary, which would make them the umpteenth legendary wingers in this draft. It's hard to gage how successful they would be at penetrating a given backline without getting deeply into it.

...and THAT does it for me, I need to get some things sorted before hitting the hay (yet another bloody early start tomorrow).

See you all tomorrow.

You should sleep indeed mate, we can all sense your alcohol and sleep deprivation, something has to give!
 
Stop posting if you're gonna misquote me, or if in your case, are gonna take it personal. It's not your game, there's no need to act like a fecking dickhead.

Welcome to antorgument! :lol: Don't worry mate, it all part of the game. Iniatiation with anto not on your team might be a bit more painful, but you'll be back next game for more.


Keane vs Edwards. What an interesting match up it would be in real life! Even if you give the edge to Duncan, the extra man would even it up for Lynk. Despite the criticism, I think Lynk will have some joy in the counters. A pass to Duff/Waddle who will take it out wide up for Allchurch to create a score. However Chester's attack is just exceptional. It would have been much tighter with a pure DM there too.
 
In practice, there's not a lot of difference between Chester's 4-2-4 and a typical 4-2-3-1. Even Brazil '70 could be called both. The personel is important which is why I'm less convinced about the capability of Waddle and Duff to do the necessary in the side central midfield roles there. One of them perhaps but like crappy's set-up it's two attack-minded players being asked to do defensively key jobs. Reckon Haynes is a bit high but basically I went for Chester because he has enough boys in roles that fit and maximise their talents.
 
In practice, there's not a lot of difference between Chester's 4-2-4 and a typical 4-2-3-1. Even Brazil '70 could be called both. The personel is important which is why I'm less convinced about the capability of Waddle and Duff to do the necessary in the side central midfield roles there. One of them perhaps but like crappy's set-up it's two attack-minded players being asked to do defensively key jobs. Reckon Haynes is a bit high but basically I went for Chester because he has enough boys in roles that fit and maximise their talents.

Arrows! Arrows, man! Seriously, though, I take yer point - but what I've gone for, illustration wise, is his most advanced position (as stated in the OP I want him to move up and down as befits the flow of play) rather than his average one: The reason for this is that I wanted to emphasize the old school feel of the attacking set-up (Haynes setting up Bastin and Jackson with through balls, Alex James style), rather than the other main function (the more timeless ping-to-winger formula which Haynes sticks to when he operates deeper). It's more cosmetic than anything.

That said, the younger incarnation of Haynes - the inside forward - certainly wouldn't look out of place in just that position (and he too had a habit of dropping down). But, yes - if I go through I'll probably go for an illustration which shows Haynes' average position (more of an obvious AM/No 10 position than the present one).