Billy No Mates Draft: R1 - Physiocrat vs mazhar

What will the result be?

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Edgar Allan Pillow

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....................................... Team Physiocrat ................................................................................. Team mazhar ..........................................

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Team Physiocrat:

Tactics Overview


Lopsided 3-4-3


Defensive Line: Normal


Passing: Normal/ Direct


Pressing: Own-half


I suspect mazhar will play a hybrid 3-5-2 ish formation which I suspect will be fairly direct in style, certainly not tiki-taki. We will focus on quick transitions to give space for Suarez, Rivaldo and Best to work in before mazhar's defense regroups to play in Vieri either crossing or as a through ball. However all the team is good enough to slow the play down and work our way through the set defense utilising Vieri's hold up play and the individual brilliance of Best, Rivaldo and Suarez: there is no way I won't score. Also shouldn't be too open to the counter with four men back at most times (the back-three and Bastian).



Defence


Chilavert is a three-time IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeperaward winner who had brilliant reflexes and marshalled his defence well. In addition he had brilliant distribution which will allow quick transitions to Best on the counter. Further he had an incredible goal record scoring 67 career goals.


All of the on the back three are intelligent defenders. T.Silva is the best centre back of his generation combing elegant ball playing skills with astute positioning and rugged tackling yet he averages only one yellow card every 16 games; coupled with his athleticism he is perfectly suited to the LCB role. Carvalho is one of the best examples of the contemporary ball playing defender who has the intelligence to keep Kocsis quiet; in fact all the back three are good in the air and won't be bullied. Vogts is an all-time great defensive right-back who also played CB so is excellently suited to the RCB role and will be gnashing at Del Piero's feet all game. During transitions all of them will be able to quickly play the ball forward to Bastian, Marzolini and Neeskens.


Midfield


Bastian will be shielding the back three using his energy and intelligence keeping close attention on Rivera but also acting as a DLP moving the ball quickly and always being an option for the back three. Neeskens is a GOAT midfielder who will play a wide box-to-box role to which he is ideally suited: a Duracell bunny engine, defensive nous and pin point passing to unleash Best, Rivaldo or Vieri; he will also prevent Vogts from being overloaded on the right.


Marzolini is regarded as Argentina's greatest left back of all-time and declared the best left-back in the 1966 World Cup. Combining great stamina, defensive awareness, dribbling and crossing skills he will fit perfectly in this LWB position and will relish linking up with Rivaldo and providing crosses for Vieri.


Luis Suarez Miramontes is the main playmaker who will have freedom to drop deeper or head forward as he sees fit. He had incredible vision and passing who will carve passes through mazhar's defence; he also had a 1 in 2 goal record when playing further forward as he is today albeit not in the same inside forward position.


Forwards


George Best. What is there to say? The greatest winger of all-time. He had it all: speed, dribbling, crossing and goal scoring. He will be freed up in the set-up to play how he sees fit and will give N.Santos a serious difficult time and tear up Campbell or Forster depending whose on the left-side of his back three; either way Best vs Campbell/Forster is the biggest mismatch on the pitch.


Rivaldo will play an inside left position where he can utilise his trickery and crossing but also be close enough to goal to be a serious scoring threat: at his peak he averaged over 1 in 2. He's also a big game player: he was the best player in World Cup 2002 and scored a hat-trick to secure Barca's place in the Champions League on the last day of the season including a last minute overhead kick from outside the area. To say he'll cause Forster problems is an understatement.


Vieri at his peak had a 0.85 goal per game record in Serie A in the early 2000s where Thuram, Nesta and Cannavaro were still going strong. He is the perfect 9: with great strength, pace, hold up play (he was tidy with ball too) and razor sharp finishing. Adjusted for the average number of goals per game he has a better goals scoring record than Marco van Basten (MVB is clearly the better striker though).

Since Vieri is likely to be underrated in this context I've done some number crunching and compared his goal record (his best three consecutive league seasons) with the undisputed great Marco van Basten (NB. I am not saying Vieri is close to being as good as MVB). However I've normalised the record for the average goals per game to take account of the fewer goals scored in Serie A when MVB played. Here's the stats (taken from Wiki and Worldfootball net):


Between 1989/1990 and 1991/1992 (MVB's peak) the average goals per game was 2.267. In that time he scored 55 goals 88 games averaging 0.625 goals per game. If we divide 0.625 by 2.267 we know the average proportion of all goals scored in one match by MVB which is 27.6%.


Between 2000/2001 and 2002/3 (Vieri's peak) the average goals per game was 2.658. In that time he scored 64 goals 75 games averaging 0.853 goals per game. If we divide 0.853 by 2.658 we know the average proportion of all goals scored in one match by Vieri which is 32%.


So even adjusted for average goals per game Vieri has a better goalscoring record than Marco van Basten. It's true he's up against Desailly but at his peak he was an absolute beast and will definitely score will service from Marzolini, Suarez, Best and Rivaldo.
[/SPOLIER]
 
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Team mazhar:

This is a team that is inspired by Helenio Herrera and Nereo Rocco's Catenaccio though with a personal twist. This team won't be strictly Catenaccio and, thus, won't have the weaknesses that led to its death. Instead, this team is completely built around Beckenbauer and his strengths whilst maintaining variety on the attack and solidity on the defence. My team will look to defend deep and keep it tight at the back without the strict man-marking, employing a balanced mix of man-marking and zonal defending, ensuring that there's no way Physiocrat's team can break us down. We'll look to go on the counter but not unnecessarily as Herrera's Inter did. Instead, if we aren't able to counter, we'll maintain possession and look to build a proper attack, allowing Beckenbauer, Xabi Alonso, and Rivera to really run the game. My team is the perfect melting pot of every single good football quality out there, ensuring that I have a side with no significant weaknesses.

Our defence is solid on all accounts. Starting from the keeper, I have one of the best ever in Peter Schmeichel. The Great Dane will be the perfect last line with his amazing reflexes, huge frame, and presence in the box. If he could save Man. Utd. on countless occasions during the 90's, he'll be perfect for us behind a solid defence. I'll have Karlheinz Förster as my defensive right back, staying back and making sure no attacking left-sided player (Best/Rivaldo) can disrupt our defence. Whilst Best and Rivaldo are two of the best dribblers ever in the game, Förster is one of the best man-markers and stoppers Germany ever produced, so this will be a battle that Förster will edge. He's done this already for Germany with Mannfred Kaltz being the wing-back and Förster being the right-sided defender of Germany during the 1980's, so this shouldn't be a position unfamiliar to him. With Campbell and Beckenbauer, I have an excellent stopper-libero combo. Campbell with his pace, strength, tight marking, and quick responses, and Beckenbauer with his reading of the game, astute positioning, and tactical nous makes our central defence absent of any weakness. Vieri can't overpower Campbell, nor can the likes of Best, Rivaldo, and Jinky be able to outrun Campbell or get away from his long legs, and Beckenbauer will be on hand to stop any incisive runs/passes by Physiocrat's front 4. At left back, Nilton Santos (a.k.a. the Encyclopedia) is the perfect man to play at left back. His reading of the game and tactical nous combined with his speed, agility, technique, and marking makes him a huge obstacle to get past as well as a potent weapon going forward. He's not one to unnecessarily go forward, so it's not like Johnstone will get a free pass here. Nilton's pace, agility, and quick thinking will make it very difficult for Jinky to get past him, and he'll be able to read Jinky's movements well, too.

If we can't counter Physiocrat's team, we'll maintain possession of the ball, allowing Beckenbauer to attack and influence the game even more. To compensate for this, Desailly will fill in for Beckenbauer in central defence, where he's played for much of his career with a good degree of success, allowing Beckenbauer to rampage forward and create some chaos with his passing, movement, and vision.

In the midfield, I have the perfect 6-8-10 construction. Desailly is pretty much an ideal anchor man with a perfect mix of steel, strength, intelligence, and technique. His ability on the ball made him flourish as a midfielder for Sacchi's total-football-ish AC Milan, and his defensive reliability was a contributor to France and AC Milan's successes. Here, his defensive strengths will make him a reliable cover. His technique on the ball means that he won't be easy to win the ball off of as well, and if everyone else is closed down, Desailly is capable of starting off attacks and maintaining possession. Xabi Alonso will be our deep-lying playmaker in the team, and he'll be perfect for the front 4. Given that Rivera isn't one to do any defensive work, Xabi Alonso is perfect for our midfield as not only does he have the silk but also the steel to complement that with his strong tackling and aggresive ball-winning approach. Both Liverpool and Real Madrid are yet to fill in the gap that Xabi Alonso left in their midfields. Desailly and Alonso will make it difficult for Luisito/Rivaldo (or both) to exert an influence in the middle of the pitch with their perfect mix of steel and silk, and with my tight, deep, organised back line, there will be no gaps for the front 4 to really exploit, making it more difficult for the deeper 2 midfielders to really open us up.

On Rivera, he is one of Italy's best #10's ever. He really was an all-rounded attacking midfielder, combining his vision, passing range, quick dribbling and orgasmic technique on the ball with efficient assisting, precise long shots, and surprisingly good finishing. Physiocrat doesn't have a proper anchor man to slow down Rivera, and if Neeskens/Luisito/Schweini decides to close him down, Rivera's excellent technique, close control, balance, and awareness of what happens around him will make sure that Neeskens/Luisito/Schweini won't ever bully him. He's never been one to shy away from such physical challenges, having constantly carried Milan's attacks throughout his career and even single-handedly winning matches when the going got tough.

To complement Rivera's creativity and playmaking, I have two great wide threats in del Piero and Conti. Conti, my creative winger, is one of the best dribblers (if not the best) Italy ever produced, and there's no way Marzolini will have a way to shut him down. With Conti being two-footed, Marzolini won't know if he would go inside or outside, with Conti being an excellent crosser of the ball as well as a world class dribbler and efficient chance creator. He will be the one to drop deeper to pick up the ball on the right side and drive it forward with speed. He's done this several times as well, showing good graft off the ball for both club and country, with the Altobelli goal against West Germany at the 1982 World Cup final being the perfect example. Del Piero will be my left wide forward who'll be a threat on the left wing with his speed, dribbling, and movement. Vogts will have a tough time tracking him as he'll be drifting inside, outside, deeper, or higher. Where will he be? Vogts won't know, for sure. Combine his intelligent movement, speed, and impeccable technique with his amazing finishing, and you have a complete package for an inside forward.

To complement all of that, I have the best Hungarian striker ever in Sandor Kocsis. He will be the lone striker who'll not only be on the end of chances but support others with his strength, variety in movement, close control, and attacking intelligence, as proven with his performances as the right inside forward for Hungary. His strength in the air and heading ability will cause Thiago Silva and Carvalho lots of problems, and his movement and close control will keep them guessing as well. Thiago Silva's aggression won't deter Kocsis in any way, and Carvalho's defensive skills will be put to the test, particularly with del Piero, Conti, and Rivera also hovering about.

To sum it up, I have a solid, strong team with excellent defensive organisation, graft, steel, creativity, pace, and incision. My team can be fast and direct or more methodical and fluid. Whilst Physiocrat has built up a great side, his absence of a proper anchor man and Thiago Silva being at a class below every other defender puts this game in my favour. If all else fails, I do have Ruud Gullit at my bench, a proper total footballer who will be my wild card in this match.
 
Well, this should be interesting. Two very adventurous sort of set-ups compared to what you normally see in these drafts.
 
I'll be away for an hour or so right now, but I will mention that BFS playing the deepest role is absolutely perfect for Rivera. Schweini was never good enough as the deepest midfielder against strong opposition, and Rivera will cause him tons of problems.

Best going up against Nilton Santos is also perfect as the two essentially cancel each other out. Förster is the perfect man to deal with the tricky Rivaldo as well, and Continued has the graft to track Marzolini. Do not forget that Beckenbauer is around to sweep up and support his teammates as libero should, and Sol is the tallest and strongest player around, so there is no way that Vieri will be able to bully him. Other than Schweini, the midfield is exactly as I envisioned and plays into my hands.

On the attack, del Piero is perfect for stretching his back 3 and creating spaces for Rivera to get goals. With Conti capable of cutting inside and shooting/through-passing as well as going outside and crossing to Kocsis, Marzolini, Schweini, and Thiago Silva will have a tough time predicting and reading him.
 
Craziest game so far

K-H on the right and Silva-Carvalho-Vogts as a back three?
 
Mazhar has put probably the best line-up he could after the Gullit issue. I really like the concept of the combo of Beckenbauer and Desailly. My biggest issue with his team is Forster at RCB, he was a great muscular presence against a target man but against the tricks of Rivaldo he's really a weak link. Rivaldo can smash one from just inside the area or role in Vieri. Also with the interchanging of Beckenbauer and Desailly it would have made more sense to start Beckenbauer at RCB since at the moment I can see a chink opening up for Best to exploit. Also Nilton Santos is clearly a brilliant full back he was most renowned for his attacking abilities - he is up against Best who is the best winger of all-time, he'd really be better off with Maldini type full-back against Best.

Also it's not Silva, but Campbell who is the worst defender on the pitch and he'll be exposed by Vieri who had a 0.85 goals per game ratio at his peak.
 
BFS is absolutely fine as the deepest midfielder especially with a back 3 behind him. He can play with everything in front of him and dictate from deep. He can also put his foot in so Rivera can be dealt with. Also given Mazhar's setup and players I'll have most of the possession, Vogts is the worst on the ball of my entire side. With all of the ball Suarez can cause serious trouble- remember he's not Riquelme but drop deeper which will cause issues for Alonso and Desially as to what to do.

Also Carvalho and Silva are all over 6ft and Vogts had an incredible leap. Those crosses when they come will be dealt with more easily than you imply.
 
harms said:
Craziest game so far

K-H on the right and Silva-Carvalho-Vogts as a back three?
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Silva is fine as an LCB. He is athletic and has great positional sense. He's much better there than Forster is at RCB.
 
Physiocrat said:
Silva is fine as an LCB. He is athletic and has great positional sense. He's much better there than Forster is at RCB.
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Förster at least played there in 5-man defense IIRC. And you're underrating Förster from what I can see
 
harms said:
Förster at least played there in 5-man defense IIRC. And you're underrating Förster from what I can see
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Do you have any links for that? I don't remember that. I really like Forster but he's better as a stopper in a four man defence IMO and certainly not an RCB without a wing-back- Conti isn't a wingback.
 
Physiocrat said:
Do you have any links for that? I don't remember that. I really like Forster but he's better as a stopper in a four man defence IMO and certainly not an RCB without a wing-back- Conti isn't a wingback.
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Literally the first game I looked:

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Conti played as a sole flank player in zona mista
 
Physiocrat said:
Mazhar has put probably the best line-up he could after the Gullit issue. I really like the concept of the combo of Beckenbauer and Desailly. My biggest issue with his team is Forster at RCB, he was a great muscular presence against a target man but against the tricks of Rivaldo he's really a weak link. Rivaldo can smash one from just inside the area or role in Vieri. Also with the interchanging of Beckenbauer and Desailly it would have made more sense to start Beckenbauer at RCB since at the moment I can see a chink opening up for Best to exploit. Also Nilton Santos is clearly a brilliant full back he was most renowned for his attacking abilities - he is up against Best who is the best winger of all-time, he'd really be better off with Maldini type full-back against Best.

Also it's not Silva, but Campbell who is the worst defender on the pitch and he'll be exposed by Vieri who had a 0.85 goals per game ratio at his peak.
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I'm not sure about that when Carvalho is around. And Sol matches up well to Vieri. Both in terms of style - sharing physicality and strength in the air - and in quality - neither the absolute best of their generation but a notch below. The sort of players who'd make major tournament XIs, would make a world squad of 23 at their peaks, but would likely not quite make the starting XI.

But basically I rate all the defenders on the park and the main question for me here concerns the credentials of Forster at right back. Have we got proof he can do a good job there? I'm buying Thiago Silva in a back three with his athleticism and quality on the ball.

I'd also prefer Beckenbauer behind Desailly to ease the switching process.
 
Gone for Physio as of now, as his team is better balanced of these 2.
Can buy Silva as LCB and he's not exactly facing a tricky winger here with Conti operating deeper. Forster at RCB is a bit more flaky, moreson against Rivaldo.
Don't exactly think Schweini will be good in the hole, but with Neeskens they should be able to handle the defensive midfield.
 
@harms

Fair enough about Forster at RCB in a back 5 and it is the case that Conti played in the zona mista but Forster is nothing like Bergomi who Conti played with in 82 nor like those defensive right backs in that system like Burgnich. Forster is a quality stopper. I really don't see who he's going to cope against Rivaldo.
 
I apologise for the awful music but this is who an out of position Forster is up against:

 
I see that the semantics are bugging certain people here yet again. For you guys, I'll change the layout to make it look easier on the eye.

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Desailly's arrow is only slightly crooked to avoid any overlap between the two arrows for a better, clearer visual. The idea is essentially there, though, and with Campbell on the left, Best will have a tougher time utilising his pace to outrun my defenders.

@Edgar Allan Pillow
 
Gio said:
I'm not sure about that when Carvalho is around. And Sol matches up well to Vieri. Both in terms of style - sharing physicality and strength in the air - and in quality - neither the absolute best of their generation but a notch below. The sort of players who'd make major tournament XIs, would make a world squad of 23 at their peaks, but would likely not quite make the starting XI.

But basically I rate all the defenders on the park and the main question for me here concerns the credentials of Forster at right back. Have we got proof he can do a good job there? I'm buying Thiago Silva in a back three with his athleticism and quality on the ball.

I'd also prefer Beckenbauer behind Desailly to ease the switching process.
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Carvalho wasn't the absolute best of his generation but I'd still rate him higher than Sol. My main concern was the underrating of Thiago Silva who is the stand out CB of the past 5 years.
 
Physiocrat said:
Carvalho wasn't the absolute best of his generation but I'd still rate him higher than Sol. My main concern was the underrating of Thiago Silva who is the stand out CB of the past 5 years.
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Thiago Silva was only the stand-out defender in an era where central defenders have been at their worst compared to prior generations. I agree with you that Thiago Silva is one of the very few who has the quality to be renowned as a good defender from prior generations, but he'll never in the talk of being a world class defender if we're looking at prior generations. This is why I refer to him as a weak link. He's prone to ball-watching and being caught off guard, and that's what we will take advantage of. Marzolini will have a difficult time to dealing with Conti on his own and will need Thiago Silva to support him, particularly on the counter, and that's where the likes of Kocsis, Rivera, and del Piero can take advantage of the gaps.

With regards to Förster, for West Germany, he's played as a right central defender behind an attacking wing back on many occasions. Look at the World Cup 1982 lineups and see that he's played behind an attacking Briegel/Kaltz who bombed forward on every occasion whilst Karlheinz guarded the right side.

Even in a back 4, he's played behind attacking wing backs and had to marshal the right side in their place. He's quite experienced and capable of playing this role, especially since he's a great man-marker so should have no trouble dealing with Rivaldo and his movement, sticking tight to him and preventing him from being influential.
 
Physiocrat said:
Carvalho wasn't the absolute best of his generation but I'd still rate him higher than Sol. My main concern was the underrating of Thiago Silva who is the stand out CB of the past 5 years.
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It's really crap generation of CB's all round. Considering Ramos is often cited as one of the best CB around makes you wonder.

T. Silva is certainly class but not sure where to rank him among all time at the moment.

Wonder if physiocrat wouldn't be better with a plain 4-3-3 for this game.

Marzolini/Vogts as full backs, Best/Rivaldo on the flanks as inside forwards, Neeskens/Schweini holding/b2b and Suarez playmaker.

Very interesting game tho, both with very creative ideas for formation.

EDIT: Also I think that Rivaldo and Best should switch places on the flanks as Best would be much more efficient against KH Forster, while Rivaldo as depicted(and natural movement) will make him cut inside which is quite what is expected to see from KHF as well.

Not sure how mazhar will be able to sell his right position there of course.
 
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Anyways, here's some extended highlights for the England-West Germany match at the second round of the 1982 World Cup. Notice how Förster mans West Germany's right channel with Kaltz frequently high up the pitch. Look at how comfortable he is playing there.

 
mazhar13 said:
With regards to Förster, for West Germany, he's played as a right central defender behind an attacking wing back on many occasions. Look at the World Cup 1982 lineups and see that he's played behind an attacking Briegel/Kaltz who bombed forward on every occasion whilst Karlheinz guarded the right side.
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Is Conti playing as a wing-back?

It's true today's CBs are not as great as they were 10 years ago but anyone watching T.Silva can see he's quality. he kept that awful Brazilian defence together- the game against Germany would have been much. much closer if he'd played. He also averages a yellow card around every 16 games. That is incredible considering modern referring. If he'd played in the 80s he could have gone through his entire career with less than 10 yellow cards.
 
Think a more conventional set-up could be easier on the eye from Physio's team. As it stands, the midfield looks a wee bit light-weight, which is weird given the personnel its sporting. Suárez would probably help with his industry and of course Neeskens is an immense presence in the middle of the pitch. However, with Neeskens being tasked with a custom wide box to box role and Suárez being further forward in a more attacking role, it leaves Schweinsteiger with too much to do shielding a back three. Esp when the forwards aren't going to help much with tracking back etc except for Best.

Imo it should quite simply be a 4-3-3, with Marzolini being an excellent wing-back for the inside left Rivaldo, and the defensive Vogts complementing Best pretty well. Also think the more disciplined deep-lying la Grande Inter version of Suárez would be better for this game as the midfield would probably need more help than the offense, which features an excellent creative goalscoring forward in Rivaldo anyway. Just an individual preference though, as it would be equally brilliant with either Neeskens in his attackin B2B role or Suárez in his goalscoring Barca incarnation, as Schweinsteiger and either of the above duo would make for a great midfield as it is. Lots to love about the team overall - that imposing and complete midfield & the balanced flanks, although I'm not particularly a fan of Carvalho-Silva tbh.

Like the look of mazhar's team as well, which is one or two tweaks away from being an excellent team and I think the personnel he sports can pull off the sitting deep & counter-attacking tactics he is aiming for. Think the whole Förster issue would go away if he just allows him to man-mark Rivaldo. Whilst Rivaldo was capable of going on the outside and delivering a pearler, he wasn't exactly a line-hugger and was more of a roaming forward. With mazhar's deep lying tactics and Beckenbauer of all people marshalling his defense, I reckon that move wouldn't really cause too much of a disruption as he has the perfect RM in Conti, arguably the best in that role, capable of manning the flank single-handedly and tracking Marzolini's runs forward - just like he did with Briegel in the 1982 WC final.

It seems pretty even overall but Kocsis against Physio's centre-back duo (with Vogts being on the del Piero detail) and Physio's midfield seems to stand out to me. Alonso is pretty decent defensively and would have been fine in most matches, but here he is up against a fantastic midfield trio and I would have preferred to see someone with more legs in that midfield for this match-up. However, mazhar is employing sitting deep tactics so perhaps Alonso's reading of the game, ability to make interceptions etc could come to the fore with Desailly providing the steel. Even then, Physio's midfield trio is unnaturally complete and talented on the ball to maybe take advantage of Alonso's deficiencies. Likewise, it's really hard to look past Kocsis against Thiago Silva and Carvalho though. That being said I do think I'm guilty of not giving Thiago Silva his dues at times, but then again it's Kocsis so it's fair to say he will have the edge in this battle.
 
And whilst we are talking about number crunching for strikers, here's Kocsis' statistics:
  • Over 400 career headers (he'll be a beast to contend with for Vogts, Carvalho, and Thiago Silva)
  • Hungary: 75 in 68
    • 11 goals in 5 World Cup matches (2.2 GPG - best ever, ahead of players like Müller, Fontaine, etc.)

    • One of four players (others being Fontaine, Müller, and Batistuta) to score more than one hat-trick in the tournament
    • 7 hat-tricks overall, equalled by Pele and only better by Müller and Ali Daei (both with 8)
  • Club: 296 in 335 (he was past his peak during his Barcelona spell but still scored 82 in 126 matches)
 
Physiocrat said:
Is Conti playing as a wing-back?
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As I stated in my write-up, I'm using the Catenaccio approach with several tweaks. In this case, Conti will be playing the role Jair did for Inter, which is to man the flank on his own. He has the graft and energy levels to do this, having done this already against West Germany in the 1982 World Cup final.

Speaking of which, here's Altobelli's goal, which is a perfect demonstration of how my team aims to play:

 
Gio said:
But basically I rate all the defenders on the park and the main question for me here concerns the credentials of Forster at right back. Have we got proof he can do a good job there?
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He's not going to be your typical run-of-the-mill full back here for my team like Gerets. He'll be playing similarly to Gentile and Burgnich in that he'll be someone to stick tight to Rivaldo or anyone else in our right channel/area. Again, we don't have Rivaldo to pull Förster all over the place and cause confusion at our back line. Also, this is the exact same role that he's had for West Germany during their second rounds and beyond for their World Cup and Euro campaigns, so it's not like this is an unfamiliar role for him.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Alonso is pretty decent defensively and would have been fine in most matches, but here he is up against a fantastic midfield trio and I would have preferred to see someone with more legs in that midfield for this match-up. However, mazhar is employing sitting deep tactics so perhaps Alonso's reading of the game, ability to make interceptions etc could come to the fore with Desailly providing the steel. Even then, Physio's midfield trio is unnaturally complete and talented on the ball to maybe take advantage of Alonso's deficiencies.
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Alonso may not have had his legs during his 30's, but in his peak, he did have the legs to cover the ground and hassle the ball-holders. Even for Real Madrid, he was quite effective defensively and covered quite a bit of ground, not defending statically like Carrick or Pirlo do.

Here are a couple of videos showing this:





The first video was pulled from this article that mentions this about Xabi Alonso's performance and his influence on Real's defensive shape:
One key to Madrid’s succes was the play of Xabi Alonso and not because of his passing, but rather his instruction and defensive play. Ramos didn’t get sucked out too wide or too high following Messi around as Alonso acted as something of a conductor for a trio of players in charge of marking Messi. Within the first few minutes this was evident was Alonso was almost on the right side touchline with Messi and you could also see him communicating with Ramos as to when Ramos should step to Messi and when to drop in.

The video...is a minute clip that I captured that shows Alonso communicating to his centre backs when to mark Messi and when he has him and also his protection of Coentrao, whom Barcelona tried to attack. Just watch how many times Alonso looks for Messi in just this minute clip and how many times he works with Ramos in defending Messi.

Alonso made it hard for the likes of Xavi and Busquets to get the ball into Messi’s feet by putting himself in front the Barcelona forward. If Ramos had been tasked with the job of pressing onto Messi, it would have opened up the space in behind the back four, which was already playing a surprisingly high line.
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This is exactly what he will be doing for us except with more energy and tenacity to deal with Neeskens and Miramontes. If Rivaldo decides to roam around, Xabi Alonso will be at hand to make sure he's taken care of whether by himself or by directing his teammates.
 
Also, take note of how lightweight Physiocrat's right side is. del Piero will already be a handful for Vogts, but add in Nilton Santos as well, who'll be playing a similar role to Facchetti here, and I have no idea how he can really contain my left side. Nilton Santos + del Piero is a big, big problem for Physiocrat, and Vogts is not enough to deal with that.

Also, for all of the talk about Physiocrat's midfield, mines is really strong as well. Desailly is one of France's most successful players ever, and he's huge presence wherever he played. He transformed Chelsea into a title contender and top-4 team. He was central to AC Milan's solid, dominant midfield, allowing their front 4 to play as freely as they did. There's no way Luisito will have an easy ride here, and there's no way Desailly will get easily dragged around in my team with the approach I have. I've already highlighted Xabi Alonso's importance to my team, and one other thing I have to emphasize that every team he left has missed him dearly and have been unable to replace him. With Rivera, there's a reason the whole of Italy, not just AC Milan fans, loved and cheered him on. If he came on in the second half of the 1970 World Cup for Mazzola, Italy might have had the guile and creativity to open up Brazil and cause Clodoaldo+Gerson more problems. I can't see how Schweinsteiger will be able to keep up with Rivera, especially since del Piero and Conti are also drifting around on the counter and when we have sustained possession of the ball.
 
Very close match this. As much of the debate has centered around Forster in that RB role and I've got nothing much to add, I'll question Physio's deployment of Marzolini as a left wing back. I researched him a fair bit for this draft and a previous one and I was very underwhelmed by his attacking output. I scanned through two or three full games for Argentina and the odd other video and he barely crossed the halfway line and never seemed to attack the byline, preferring instead to cut onto his stronger right foot and pass infield. He looked to be a strong, composed defender but from the little I've watched he was very conservative and I could find nothing to support him having a strong attacking game. Some of you are bound to be more familiar with him than me, so what am I missing here guys?
 
mazhar13 said:
Alonso may not have had his legs during his 30's, but in his peak, he did have the legs to cover the ground and hassle the ball-holders. Even for Real Madrid, he was quite effective defensively and covered quite a bit of ground, not defending statically like Carrick or Pirlo do.

Here are a couple of videos showing this:





The first video was pulled from this article that mentions this about Xabi Alonso's performance and his influence on Real's defensive shape:


This is exactly what he will be doing for us except with more energy and tenacity to deal with Neeskens and Miramontes. If Rivaldo decides to roam around, Xabi Alonso will be at hand to make sure he's taken care of whether by himself or by directing his teammates.
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Fair enough then.
 
I don't understand why phyiocrat has drawn up his formation like that, more confusing than it should be.

In reality he is playing smth like

----------------Vieri------------------
-----Rivaldo--------------------Best-
--------Suarez----Nessekens--------
-------------Schwein---------------
Marzolini--Silva--Carvalho---Vogts

With Marzolini playing the attacking role and Vogts defensive one.

CBs are very underwhelming but otherwise the side works.
 
mazhar13 said:
Also, take note of how lightweight Physiocrat's right side is. del Piero will already be a handful for Vogts, but add in Nilton Santos as well, who'll be playing a similar role to Facchetti here, and I have no idea how he can really contain my left side. Nilton Santos + del Piero is a big, big problem for Physiocrat, and Vogts is not enough to deal with that.
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Disagree. Del Piero vs Vogts is a mismatch in favor of Physiocrat. Vogts is arguably the best defensive full back of all time (Maldini is the only one who can be labeled better as a pure defensive full back), Del Piero is not close to that kind of tier. You have also sneakily ignored Best out of the equation. Santos has bigger task on his hand that attacking.
 
crappycraperson said:
Disagree. Del Piero vs Vogts is a mismatch in favor of Physiocrat. Vogts is arguably the best defensive full back of all time (Maldini is the only one who can be labeled better as a pure defensive full back), Del Piero is not close to that kind of tier. You have also sneakily ignored Best out of the equation. Santos has bigger task on his hand that attacking.
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Aye, I don't agree with that criticism of Physio's right wing at all. Vogts and Best, with Neeskens supporting, is a superb right side by any standard.
 
crappycraperson said:
I don't understand why phyiocrat has drawn up his formation like that, more confusing than it should be.

In reality he is playing smth like

----------------Vieri------------------
-----Rivaldo--------------------Best-
--------Suarez----Nessekens--------
-------------Schwein---------------
Marzolini--Silva--Carvalho---Vogts

With Marzolini playing the attacking role and Vogts defensive one.

CBs are very underwhelming but otherwise the side works.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's one of those cases where the lack of symmetry is probably affecting the voting, even though it's fairly obvious how it would work with clear complementarity (Marzolini/Vogts, Rivaldo/Best) and units assembled (Schwein/Neeskens/Suarez) and (Rivaldo/Best/Vieri).
 
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