Biggest All-Time Draft - R2: Sjor vs Zlatan

With players at their peak, who would win?

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    15
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2mufc0

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Dragon of Dojima
Sjor

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Zlatan

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Sjor Tactics

Tactics

Lovechild of Cruyff Dream Team and LVG Ajax.
Moving a bit from dependence of Pirlo to a more system based tactic where its more about the team rather then individuals and two upgrades are pretty much the perfect example of this philosophy, first and foremost great characters and then brilliant footballers.

Defensive wise the tactic is to press high with 5 great press players with above high level of workrates while at the back a lot of pace and brilliant 1v1 defenders just in case. In the need of the back 4 formation Katanec can easily drop both at leftback and at centerback which would then result with Reus and Robben forming a 442 or with Griezmann dropping into midfield with team shaping in 433 formation and him appearing in the role he shined for France at one tourno(forgot which one).

Offensive wise its Carvalho and Pirlo running the show in the initial phase, patiently waiting for the opening while the front 4 would be a bit more direct in the approach with freedom to attack 1v1, swapping places etc. All four are great at combining with eachother all while can all can create for themself and produce moments of magic on the regular basis.

Zlatan Tactics

Standard nineties 442

Del Piero to play off Ronaldo, Piero happy to drift out wide left allowing Pires to come inside, hopefully pull Cafu around a bit and create openings for seedorf to exploit.

I don’t expect Laudrup to have a great time against Maldini down his side but could have a few mazy dribbles and allow Maicon to overlap

Solid midfield 2 with robson and seedorf and two new centre backs upgrading the team, Stam one of the best blockers the game has seen and then Blanc the elegance next to him.
 
if zlatan kept cocu id be toast but now i should win this, against this midfield id have complete control of the game and griezmann would be the match winner.

seedorf cant play in midfield two and even if he could robbo isnt a pair for him, both are crying to be paired with cocu.
better player doesnt makes the better team and zlatan fallen in that trap.
 
I need to think about the game as a whole more but Seedorf in a midfield two doesn't sit right with me. Cocu would be a much more complementary option. I realise Robson played in a two with Glen Hoddle once but it is far from optimal.
 
Edit - it's all in the OP, stupid Synco.
 
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Lots of nice fits for the shape in Sjor's line-up, particularly in the sides of defence and midfield. There will be hairy moments out wide inevitably though given the conventional flanks that Zlatan is sporting, Laudrup being one of the few players to have caused Paulo issues over the years, while Puyol will find Pires' feet too nimble at times.

Nice fits for Zlatan too - defence and attack are great, but I agree with others that Cocu would be preferable. For me he's a better player than Seedorf, but more so here with Pirlo and Griezmann at either ends of the midfield, it asks a question of a 442 around how those players won't run the show.

Of course there is still the Ronaldo factor against a more adventurous defensive set-up. I reckon this game has plenty of goals.
 
I agree cocu would have been more solid and seedorf is obviously more attacking. Slightly kicking myself but when choosing the team I had to play the two wingers, so my midfield was always going to have two players and knowing the setups people usually choose I was always going to be out numbered in the middle and have that used against me. I went with the more attacking option, knowing del Piero would drift wide, Pires coming inside, it would pull bepos team around and I was hoping seedorf could exploit that space.

I still think my middle is mobile and agressive enough to cover a lot of space and do well enough to create lots of attacking opportunities. There will be goals.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I agree cocu would have been more solid and seedorf is obviously more attacking. Slightly kicking myself but when choosing the team I had to play the two wingers, so my midfield was always going to have two players and knowing the setups people usually choose I was always going to be out numbered in the middle and have that used against me. I went with the more attacking option, knowing del Piero would drift wide, Pires coming inside, it would pull bepos team around and I was hoping seedorf could exploit that space.

I still think my middle is mobile and agressive enough to cover a lot of space and do well enough to create lots of attacking opportunities. There will be goals.
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Thing is, I think people see Robson as that player already. And one of the greats at that. So a steady, more defensive-minded balance player like Cocu seems a good complement to him.
 
Synco said:
Thing is, I think people see Robson as that player already. And one of the greats at that. So a steady, more defensive-minded balance player like Cocu seems a good complement to him.
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I agree really. My problem was I didn’t know how mobile cocu would be and if he would suit a two or be preferred as the dm behind two midfielders.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I agree really. My problem was I didn’t know how mobile cocu would be and if he would suit a two or be preferred as the dm behind two midfielders.
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That old Caf classic.

As far as I can recall, he would have been perfect. He was a very versatile player who could also play wide, in defense, more CM or more DM... really the kind of allround game that fits a midfield two with its many tasks.
 
Synco said:
That old Caf classic.

As far as I can recall, he would have been perfect. He was a very versatile player who could also play wide, in defense, more CM or more DM... really the kind of allround game that fits a midfield two with its many tasks.
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Fair, thank you. I always think when 442 is used or an option the will he work in a two or the midfield will be over run will be brought into the conversation.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I always think when 442 is used or an option the will he work in a two or the midfield will be over run will be brought into the conversation.
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My feeling is it's less so today than a few years back - I think now it's usually more about the right personnel than some general stance. As @Gio has said recently, two banks of four is a super common modern defensive formation, 433s often transforming into this against the ball. I try to imagine a 442 draft team in that situation, and see if it seems to work.
 
442 is amazing when all players work hard so you have 2 banks of 4 with 2 strikers making up the numbers in midfield by actively pressing the opposition DM at least.

Here zlatan doesnt only have dosfunctional midfield 2 but also has two strikers that will do very little work in the defensive phase(by no means passangers like romario but nowhere near to have an impact on my dm) so pirlo would have free hands to control the game.

yes robbo played with hoddle but what did they achieve and what was the level they were up against? its uncomparable to this and therefor irrelevant.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I agree really. My problem was I didn’t know how mobile cocu would be and if he would suit a two or be preferred as the dm behind two midfielders.
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Cocu regularly played in a midfield two. He was starting over Seedorf in that setup alongside Davids. Very underrated player.
 
It might not have been the tournament that endorsed his credentials, but Seedorf did play as the 6 in Holland's 343 at Euro' 96.
Šjor Bepo said:
442 is amazing when all players work hard so you have 2 banks of 4 with 2 strikers making up the numbers in midfield by actively pressing the opposition DM at least.

Here zlatan doesnt only have dosfunctional midfield 2 but also has two strikers that will do very little work in the defensive phase(by no means passangers like romario but nowhere near to have an impact on my dm) so pirlo would have free hands to control the game.

yes robbo played with hoddle but what did they achieve and what was the level they were up against? its uncomparable to this and therefor irrelevant.
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I think Del Piero grafted a lot for Juve from memory. So I can see him putting some pressure on Pirlo.
 
Gio said:
It might not have been the tournament that endorsed his credentials, but Seedorf did play as the 6 in Holland's 343 at Euro' 96.

I think Del Piero grafted a lot for Juve from memory. So I can see him putting some pressure on Pirlo.
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big difference playing in mid 2 with back 5 and back 4....also would be insane to use that version of Seedorf.

As for Del Piero, yeah he did okay-ish in terms of the graft as did Fenomeno at times but to stand even a chance against elite press press resistant n6 you need either a whole team defending and pressing as one which here isnt the case or you need a Rooney, Tevez calibre of animal that can harass him, again thats here not the case. If Pirlo doesnt run the show against defensive qualities of Fenomeno and Del Piero he can pack his bags and never again appear in any draft.
 
@Zlatan 7 why did you sub Cocu? absolute shame that as the previous game you nailed on the formation right, no need to change IMO...
 
Enigma_87 said:
@Zlatan 7 why did you sub Cocu? absolute shame that as the previous game you nailed on the formation right, no need to change IMO...
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I had to use the two wingers I’d drafted, then it was a choice between cocu and seedorf. Comments here show I probably made the wrong choice
 
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Id love to hear how Zlatan plans to defend when my team is in controlled possession. Who handles Pirlo? Who will track back constant of the ball running of Valverde? Whats the plan for Griezmann?
He has a midfield 2 that cant function with 4 attacking players that are only solid in terms of defensive workrate, its far from good enough, specially compared to my side where you have one solid one in Robben and 3 maniacs in the frontline that are elite in pressing and wont stop running + Valverde and Katanec.

Are we just gonna ignore whats happening in football for last decade or so and how important the defensive side is and how can(even thats debatable) you carry at most one player per team and how high energy runners are a must.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
big difference playing in mid 2 with back 5 and back 4....also would be insane to use that version of Seedorf.

As for Del Piero, yeah he did okay-ish in terms of the graft as did Fenomeno at times but to stand even a chance against elite press press resistant n6 you need either a whole team defending and pressing as one which here isnt the case or you need a Rooney, Tevez calibre of animal that can harass him, again thats here not the case. If Pirlo doesnt run the show against defensive qualities of Fenomeno and Del Piero he can pack his bags and never again appear in any draft.
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I don’t think I chose attackers with pressuring your number 6 in mind: that can’t always be the case of defence se minded first.
You have a back 3 that is going to be over run so bad that pirlo needs to think about his defensive work before any running of the game. My wingers could pull you so wide you can’t leave Ronaldo and del Piero two on one against carvalho, pirlo could spend most of the game trying to drop deep just to cover space and try to defend, which I don’t think was his game? Did he ever play in front of a back 3 without even wing backs to help? To me it looks like it could be a blood bath once I get in behind that midfield
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I don’t think I chose attackers with pressuring your number 6 in mind: that can’t always be the case of defence se minded first.
You have a back 3 that is going to be over run so bad that pirlo needs to think about his defensive work before any running of the game. My wingers could pull you so wide you can’t leave Ronaldo and del Piero two on one against carvalho, pirlo could spend most of the game trying to drop deep just to cover space and try to defend, which I don’t think was his game? Did he ever play in front of a back 3 without even wing backs to help? To me it looks like it could be a blood bath once I get in behind that midfield
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considering you are giving Pirlo a free pass in midfield and i have not only one but two player advantage in the middle i will control the possession so your wingers would be pushed back if you want to have 1% chance of getting anything from this game as you dont have a midfield and your strikers wont do the dirty work, you realize someone needs to defend as well you cant rely on offensive talent to save you if you dont have the ball nor a plan how to get the ball.

for every problem you put in front of me i have a plan, maybe its a crap plan but its a plan. Already said that my back 3 can easily for a back 4 if needed with the bonus of Katanec being able to drop both in LB and CB spot which eases the transition and Pirlo would never be alone as i picked players that are elite in defensive transition so Valverde would always track back, Robben and Reus can drop back and Griezmann is probably the second best defender on the team.
So it wont be a blood bath as team can easily transition into both 4411 and 433 depending on situation on the pitch.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
considering you are giving Pirlo a free pass in midfield and i have not only one but two player advantage in the middle i will control the possession so your wingers would be pushed back if you want to have 1% chance of getting anything from this game as you dont have a midfield and your strikers wont do the dirty work, you realize someone needs to defend as well you cant rely on offensive talent to save you if you dont have the ball nor a plan how to get the ball.

for every problem you put in front of me i have a plan, maybe its a crap plan but its a plan. Already said that my back 3 can easily for a back 4 if needed with the bonus of Katanec being able to drop both in LB and CB spot which eases the transition and Pirlo would never be alone as i picked players that are elite in defensive transition so Valverde would always track back, Robben and Reus can drop back and Griezmann is probably the second best defender on the team.
So it wont be a blood bath as team can easily transition into both 4411 and 433 depending on situation on the pitch.
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Del Piero may not run around like a tevez, how many elite strikers do? But he’s not going to just stand up front with his thumb up his arse having a chat with Ronaldo and think he’s more than capable to drop and Atleast harrie and rush pirlo, when pirlo is chosen unless the opposing team picks someone like park with a dedicated role of just following him around (which is hard to do in a draft) it’s easy to say he’ll dominate, also even though my midfield two maybe more attacking minded they are both certainly busy midfielders who are not just going to stand around and let the game pass them by.

Greizmann admittedly is your most dangerous player with out me playing a dedicated dm but he’s still not going to be out numbering anyone, and I think Stam and Blanc are enough not to let him run freely past them
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Del Piero may not run around like a tevez, how many elite strikers do? But he’s not going to just stand up front with his thumb up his arse having a chat with Ronaldo and think he’s more than capable to drop and Atleast harrie and rush pirlo, when pirlo is chosen unless the opposing team picks someone like park with a dedicated role of just following him around (which is hard to do in a draft) it’s easy to say he’ll dominate, also even though my midfield two maybe more attacking minded they are both certainly busy midfielders who are not just going to stand around and let the game pass them by.

Greizmann admittedly is your most dangerous player with out me playing a dedicated dm but he’s still not going to be out numbering anyone, and I think Stam and Blanc are enough not to let him run freely past them
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But thats the thing, to stop a player like Pirlo you either need a Tevez or a system where your whole team gonna defend and press as one unit, you dont have either and combine that with a non functional midfield and you get a proper mess.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
But thats the thing, to stop a player like Pirlo you either need a Tevez or a system where your whole team gonna defend and press as one unit, you dont have either and combine that with a non functional midfield and you get a proper mess.
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Ok, but then to stop a pairing like Ronaldo and del Piero you certainly need more than carvalho
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Ok, but then to stop a pairing like Ronaldo and del Piero you certainly need more than carvalho
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are we in fourth grade now? :lol:
dont need to stop squat as your team doesnt function, thankfully for you tactical side means feck all and you have better names so you are getting away with murder here.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
are we in fourth grade now? :lol:
dont need to stop squat as your team doesnt function, thankfully for you tactical side means feck all and you have better names so you are getting away with murder here.
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Just pointing how easy it is to use your kind of arguments towards being un able to stop players.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Just pointing how easy it is to use your kind of arguments towards being un able to stop players.
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sure, exactly the same thing....anyway, think there is no point of going further, good luck in the next round.
 
How you can say a team with a solid back line, wingers, one that can dribble and run wide, one that can cut inside and the forward to drift wide, an out and out scorer and two world class midfielders doesn’t function is a wild claim too. So it’s lacking one more of a defensive minded midfielder. The team isnt going to fall apart and not function because of that. The two central midfielders are both certainly busy and dogged enough not to be run around with ease
 
I'd have swapped Maldini and Puyol's sides. Like the idea of converting to a back 4 with Katenac, seems balanced enough, but having Maldini instead of Puyol as the right back would have felt more secure against Del Piero/Pires.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
I'd have swapped Maldini and Puyol's sides. Like the idea of converting to a back 4 with Katenac, seems balanced enough, but having Maldini instead of Puyol as the right back would have felt more secure against Del Piero/Pires.
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and have puyol vs fenomeno? + having both maldini and puyol on lesser sides? maldini could do it no problem, not that sure about puyol
 
Šjor Bepo said:
and have puyol vs fenomeno? + having both maldini and puyol on lesser sides? maldini could do it no problem, not that sure about puyol
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Yea, I understand why you'd want Maldini against Fenomeno, but Puyol at RB against a great left flank seems the much worse choice to me.

Lesser sides, I dont know. It wont hold in shape like a back 3 most of the time defending if I understand correctly how often it converts to a back 4.

Would have won my vote probably but also a good chance would have lost a few votes as well that move.
 
Just realized both managers have integrated two subs for this round, pretty impressive results.

The overall makeup & strengths of Zlatan's team match Sjor's setup so well that I'd love to vote for him. But I think Sjor has all the right midfield ingredients to take advantage of the situation we've discussed at length. Could win as well on that basis. I'll have this as a tie.
 
What happened to only one manager being able to post in the match thread and other being restricted to 3 posts?
 
Good game sjor and sorry for bringing it down to fourth grade as you said. I actually feel guilty for winning.
Have a good hol
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Good game sjor and sorry for bringing it down to fourth grade as you said. I actually feel guilty for winning.
Have a good hol
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who even invited you?
good game. no worries just be sure to field an actual midfield in the next round as you cant play me every week! :angel:
 
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