Biggest All-Time Draft - R1 - 2mufc0 vs Onenil

Who will win this game?

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
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Team 2mufc0

A team built to get the best out of my star player Franz Beckenbauer playing in his tried and tested position in a back four, he is supported by Varane and Bossis who will provide excellent sweeper backup if needed. However, I do not envisage this team being caught out often with all midfielders and defenders so comfortable on the ball. The philosophy is to play efficient direct football, the team is full of technical ability and work rate.

I have drafted 3 attackers with great movement and intelligent off the ball runners able to make the most of the creative powers of Kaiser, Netzer and Breitner. Sheva was particularly good at dragging defenders out of position allowing Heynckes and Lato to exploit the spaces left behind, all 3 also being pretty ruthless in front of goal.

There isn't much to say about the midfield, I feel it is well balanced, Bastian holding things together and Breitner as the B2B. Netzer will be pulling the strings further up the field making the most of the excellent movement of the front 3.

Beckenbauer was known to lift the players around him through his leadership and organisational skills and i see no different here. Playing next to the pacey Varane a key player that has won everything there is to win, he is able to sweep up behind him (what he pretty much did for Sergio Ramos and saved his blushes countless times). Kyle Walker at this point has cemented himself as the best PL right back and has won pretty much everything at domestic level. In terms of 1v1 defending ability he's up there with the very best, he's had excellent performances against the best attackers of his generation including Mbappe, Neymar, and Vinicius Junior and will be invaluable against Stoichkov in this regard, furthermore he is very comfortable on the ball. On the other side Bossis is a much balanced full back and with the skillset to play over the whole backline. To top it off one of the GOAT goalkeepers Sepp Maier guards the goal for us with proven real life chemistry with Beckenbauer.


Team Onenil

Trappatoni Inter 88-90 Inspired Asymmetric 433
Theory: utilize Trappatoni inspired principles of defensive strength and diverse counter attacking to maximize Captain Lothar Matthaus' influence
Key Player: Andreas Brehme. Brehme is crucial to make this asymmetric version work. Arguably the greatest left back,his two-way and two footed prowess is unparalleled. He also forms a proven partnership with Lothar Matthaus that got the best out of both players.
Diverse attacks. Can start rapid counter attacks from many positions either up the center or down the wings. Can utilize long passing and headers and also individual brilliance and creativity of Bruno Conti, Stoichkov and Matthaus. Also have long range shooting prowess to
Strength in the center of the pitch and players skilled in dead ball situations.
Tactical discipline is emphasized but creativity still allowed to flourish (Conti, Stoichkov, Matthaus).
"The tactics must focus on the pressure to recover the ball and then quickly develop the offensive action"
 
fecked up the poll, will put alarm on my phone to check the score at the 24 hour deadline
 
Šjor Bepo said:
fecked up the poll, will put alarm on my phone to check the score at the 24 hour deadline
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Thanks for setting up. I think you may still be able to edit?
 
This is a tough choice. Both teams are really good, and it's all about the fine margins here. The individual players might make a big difference here at the end of the day. Both midfields are constructed very well, and both teams have really tough back lines.
 
I really like @2mufc0 team not much to criticize at all. Only thing I see is that with Beckenbauer in a back 4, and with my having two strikers I think the formations give me a slight advantage as Lothar will be able to influence the midfield more. Fine margins all around though. Hoping a long distance shot from Matthaus or some magic from Brehme would nick this one.

Good luck 2mufc0!
 
like the look of both teams....dont really know much about Lato, is he really good enough for this level?
 
Šjor Bepo said:
like the look of both teams....dont really know much about Lato, is he really good enough for this level?
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Ranked 20 in our wingers rankings for what it's worth. For a first round pick in this type of draft I think he's fine.

In terms of play style I'm going to shamelessly rip this post by the general on him

General_Elegancia said:
Need to prepare for my match, So I come a bit late

Lato for me his best role was free role forward like he did in World Cup 1974. His biggest strengths for me was straight up to forward role , he was excellent in finding spaces for scoring, accleration and team oriented. He was very-underrated especially in team player. He played with Deyna (main playmaker) really well especially in off-ball movement. For me, his 74 version was excellent in off-ball movement, his passing and reading the games had improved during late 70s to world cup 82. In World Cup 82 his speed wasn't the same, so he played more as smf.

In fact, I'm not impressive that much of his 82 version, he was a bit declined due to his age. I'm imagine if you use 82 version of him, he would make some impressive combo with Blokhin. If you use 74 version, I really don't have problem too( but he must play more of wing-forward role). You have Scholes who could throw long balls to him, you have Suarez who have a superb workrate and could throw some beautiful passes to him. His offball movement would suit with Suarez and Scholes and make your attacking-games more unpredictable.



Off ball movement, movement and movement, Off ball movement+ cheetah speed= Lato74




Deyna threw some passes to him.

In fact, Lato 74 lost duel at 47 times which is more than his numbers of duel win(34 times) and he only made 124 passes during WC74, which mean he focused a lot on off ball movement and didn't participate in build-up games that much( Deyna did everything in this phase).
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2mufc0 said:
Ranked 20 in our wingers rankings for what it's worth. For a first round pick in this type of draft I think he's fine.

In terms of play style I'm going to shamelessly rip this post by the general on him
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yeah i know he regularly participates in draft and isnt really a vote decider him being good or not good enough so its not a critic....i was just curious as i never really watched him.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I really like @2mufc0 team not much to criticize at all. Only thing I see is that with Beckenbauer in a back 4, and with my having two strikers I think the formations give me a slight advantage as Lothar will be able to influence the midfield more. Fine margins all around though. Hoping a long distance shot from Matthaus or some magic from Brehme would nick this one.

Good luck 2mufc0!
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Good luck to you too.

Yeah I agree it would be a close game and perhaps a long shot would decide it. However, I think having Maier in goal negates that a bit, he will be difficult to beat. Saying that we have a few players who can hit a rocket too.

I would say this, but I think my midfield as a unit is better in terms of quality, nothing against Carrick and Vidal they were fine players just not on the level of Schweinsteiger and Breitner. This is where I think we can win the game.

And to be honest I don't fancy Shearer in this role a more pacey agile forward like Rossi is more suited for the zona mista system. Similar issue with Stoichkov who was more of a baller. Like the Juve 1986 zona mistake (the best version Trap created of this tactic) the left winger is more of a ghosting forward (like Boniek) .
 
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Šjor Bepo said:
yeah i know he regularly participates in draft and isnt really a vote decider him being good or not good enough so its not a critic....i was just curious as i never really watched him.
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Fair enough, I agree he's not a vote winner as in a Best or Gartincha and he was one of my latter picks. But I picked him for a reason due to his off the ball movement, with midfield I have and Beckenbauer orchestrating from the back it was essential for attackers who were quick, intelligent off the ball and like to make runs rather than dribble and hog the ball, he fits this profile pretty much.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
like the look of both teams....dont really know much about Lato, is he really good enough for this level?
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I'd say so. He was an incredible wide forward who was very difficult to keep tabs of. With a dangerous striker in Sheva and an incredibly creative playmaker in Netzer, he has what he needs to be fully effective as a right-sided forward.
 
2mufc0 said:
Fair enough, I agree he's not a vote winner as in a Best or Gartincha and he was one of my latter picks. But I picked him for a reason due to his off the ball movement, with midfield I have and Beckenbauer orchestrating from the back it was essential for attackers who were quick, intelligent off the ball and like to make runs rather than dribble and hog the ball, he fits this profile pretty much.
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misunderstood :)
i meant him being good or not good enough wont be a vote decider for me, was just asking a question to those that maybe watched a bit more of him so cheers for the response.
 
2mufc0 said:
Good luck to you too.

Yeah I agree it would be a close game and perhaps a long shot would decide it. However, I think having Maier in goal negates that a bit, he will be difficult to beat. Saying that we have a few players who can hit a rocket too.

I would say this, but I think my midfield as a unit is better in terms of quality, nothing against Carrick and Vidal they were fine players just not on the level of Schweinsteiger and Breitner. This is where I think we can win the game.

And to be honest I don't fancy Shearer in this role a more pacey agile forward like Rossi is more suited for the zona mista system. Similar issue with Stoichkov who was more of a baller. Like the Juve 1986 zona mistake (the best version Trap created of this tactic) the left winger is more of a ghosting forward (like Boniek) .
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So this isn't so much all Zona Mista but a specific incarnation of his Inter tactic. Splitting hairs maybe but I was trying to maximize Lothar's influence rather than recreate a generalized Zona Mista that would have included Juventus variation which was built a little different around Platini rather than Matthaus.

On that note I think Shearer works as a super charged version of Aldo Serena who was more like a Shearer type of forward than a Rossi type. This version worked well in some matches I watched like Inter's 3-1 win over Sacchi's Milan in 1990 when Serena's aerial prowess and battling nature worked really well for Inter.

This is why I preferred to face a 4 at the back rather than a 352 type formation because I felt this asymmetric 433 would work well against that type of formation more than a 352 variation.

Conti I feel is fantastic here which is why I really wanted him especially as his 1982 WC edition had him nicknamed "Mara-Zico" which is perfect for the RW of this asymmetric style. And Djalma is perfect behind him as a stopper RB

Rossi is a great shout though. I wanted him in addition and to play a slightly altered version of this asymmetric idea against a 352 but he got picked before I expected.
 
Two great teams and hard to split them.

@2mufc0 has an excellent side but I have a minor concern with Beckenbauer on the left. I don't think it's a major concern and he'd be fine there, but the angle is often a little different and caters to more central play and different angles. It's Beckenbauer so Id want him in his best position ideally. Lato-Walker is a decent flank but pales a bit in comparison to the potential Brehme-Stoichkov pairing they'd face.

@oneniltothearsenal it's hard to not think about this as a Zona Mista so I'm struggling with Shearer a bit, but I note your point about Aldo Serena and the potential parallels there. Carrick-Vidal is a nice pairing but more star quality is required I reckon since they're up against the likes of Schweinsteiger and Breitner. Similarly there's an upgrade to be done with the Godin-Bonnuci pairing as well.
 
Himannv said:
@oneniltothearsenal it's hard to not think about this as a Zona Mista so I'm struggling with Shearer a bit, but I note your point about Aldo Serena and the potential parallels there. Carrick-Vidal is a nice pairing but more star quality is required I reckon since they're up against the likes of Schweinsteiger and Breitner. Similarly there's an upgrade to be done with the Godin-Bonnuci pairing as well.
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Despite them fitting their roles, I agree, in terms of individual quality, Carrick feels like the odd man out. Vidal, whilst he isn't as big of a name, does have the quality and athleticism to match up to the opposing midfield. I do think the overall zona-mista-inspired system helps cover some of Carrick's weaknesses, but whether that's enough depends on the other arguments.
 
Himannv said:
Two great teams and hard to split them.

@2mufc0 has an excellent side but I have a minor concern with Beckenbauer on the left. I don't think it's a major concern and he'd be fine there, but the angle is often a little different and caters to more central play and different angles. It's Beckenbauer so Id want him in his best position ideally. Lato-Walker is a decent flank but pales a bit in comparison to the potential Brehme-Stoichkov pairing they'd face.

@oneniltothearsenal it's hard to not think about this as a Zona Mista so I'm struggling with Shearer a bit, but I note your point about Aldo Serena and the potential parallels there. Carrick-Vidal is a nice pairing but more star quality is required I reckon since they're up against the likes of Schweinsteiger and Breitner. Similarly there's an upgrade to be done with the Godin-Bonnuci pairing as well.
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Yeah, I knew the two English men would look a little out of place at first glance and they weren't my first choices at all but this 30 manager draft was brutal!

I do feel though they have the right characteristics to fit the Inter 88-91 style tactic. I looked at more as could the players suit the tactical principles underlying the tactic to maximize Matthaus and Brehme. Like Pep's Barca treble team and Pep's City treble team have some noticeable differences on personnel but they both employ his general principles, sometimes with different types of player combinations. So here I watched some Inter with Matthaus and Brehme and wanted to capture the principles that allowed both the Germans to excel in that system with a little update for drafts. Brehme was really my favorite pick of this draft and the player i think makes the tactic successful.

I agree a few players could definitely be upgraded and you identify exactly where my reinforcements would be focused if I end up advancing.
 
Himannv said:
Two great teams and hard to split them.

@2mufc0 has an excellent side but I have a minor concern with Beckenbauer on the left. I don't think it's a major concern and he'd be fine there, but the angle is often a little different and caters to more central play and different angles. It's Beckenbauer so Id want him in his best position ideally. Lato-Walker is a decent flank but pales a bit in comparison to the potential Brehme-Stoichkov pairing they'd face.

@oneniltothearsenal it's hard to not think about this as a Zona Mista so I'm struggling with Shearer a bit, but I note your point about Aldo Serena and the potential parallels there. Carrick-Vidal is a nice pairing but more star quality is required I reckon since they're up against the likes of Schweinsteiger and Breitner. Similarly there's an upgrade to be done with the Godin-Bonnuci pairing as well.
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Cheers for the feedback. I think in the modern game the play making defender often plays on their less dominant foot side, this helps with opening up and playing the outside of the foot balls, so I think he would be perfectly fine there. Although you are right about him playing RCB, however any disadvantage would not be significant imo.

Although, this is not the main reason I placed him there. I knew onenils left side would be his main route to go and didn't want Kaiser to be preoccupied with defending that side so he can play his natural game. I think we now have a solid trio in Varane, Walker and Bastian (when needed) patrolling those areas. I also think our success will come through the middle rather than the wings, there is just too much creativity behind the attackers and with their pace and movement it will be a route to goal. Esp if Brehme is caught up field I think we can expose Godins lack of pace particularly.
 
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Carrick is a fantastic choice and midfield composition can hardly be better. Put Rijkaard there and it all goes to shit. It actually wins my vote, that midfield. Almost lost it as 1-0 said he lined it up more as a result of not having a choice, but will look through that :wenger: Change any of them, particularly Carrick, for a shiner, but lesser player at DLP and my vote is gone.

Harsh on 2mufc0 as it is a fantastic team, but that midfield (and attack) wins my vote as more preferred team building in terms of personnel.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
So this isn't so much all Zona Mista but a specific incarnation of his Inter tactic. Splitting hairs maybe but I was trying to maximize Lothar's influence rather than recreate a generalized Zona Mista that would have included Juventus variation which was built a little different around Platini rather than Matthaus.

On that note I think Shearer works as a super charged version of Aldo Serena who was more like a Shearer type of forward than a Rossi type. This version worked well in some matches I watched like Inter's 3-1 win over Sacchi's Milan in 1990 when Serena's aerial prowess and battling nature worked really well for Inter.

This is why I preferred to face a 4 at the back rather than a 352 type formation because I felt this asymmetric 433 would work well against that type of formation more than a 352 variation.

Conti I feel is fantastic here which is why I really wanted him especially as his 1982 WC edition had him nicknamed "Mara-Zico" which is perfect for the RW of this asymmetric style. And Djalma is perfect behind him as a stopper RB

Rossi is a great shout though. I wanted him in addition and to play a slightly altered version of this asymmetric idea against a 352 but he got picked before I expected.
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I think the principles of the setup are pretty much zona mista (defensive right back, attacking left back, hard working right winger) playing defensive/counter football, although Trap did tweak it at Inter. It's also a defensive, counter team so don't think Shearer has the pace to harm us in anyway in this regard.

However I agree regarding Conti he is taylor made for working the right wing in this role, Brehme is also a excellent choice on the left.
 
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Great teams. Got a lot of love for the composition of Onenil's midfield, Carrick is just ideal in there. In fact the whole team is pretty much flawless, great drafting. Mind you 2mufc0 has a hell of a midfield trio as well and I like how that defence could play high with the pace on the right-hand side to mitigate Onenil's quickest forward.
 
Carrick is absolutely fine here. It's Vidal that I'm not liking all that much in that set up. He's just an inferior version of Matthäus in many respects and I'd imagine that in the team catered to Matthäus he's going to be reduced to a being just a high volume runner. Which isn't that bad, mind you, and he wasn't bad at that but it doesn't quite win my vote.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
like the look of both teams....dont really know much about Lato, is he really good enough for this level?
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For this set-up, I believe he’s definitely good enough. The standout feature of Lato during his peak was his ability to combine with playmaking central midfielders like Deyna. Therefore, I see a similar relationship with Netzer as well. I can imagine Netzer( or Breitner or even Bastian) delivering beautiful long balls for Lato to race past defenders in 1-on-1 situations, finding space to finish in the final third. Lato wasn’t a "god-tier" dribbler in the middle third or someone who could beat 3-4 players on the run or a genius creative player. His game in the 70s revolved around off-the-ball movement to score goals, his speed in 1-on-1 duels, and his sharp finishing. Yet, he could also hold width effectively on the flanks.

I’m sure you’ll have moments where, in some games, he doesn’t perform well overall—his dribbling might fail, and he doesn’t seem to make much impact—but just a few key chances, and he could finish and score. He wasn’t a player with a high duel win percentage (no more than 50% in the '74 World Cup), but with the right set-up, he could truly shine.
 
Congratulations @oneniltothearsenal , you're one of the teams I wanted to avoid.

However please allow me to be a bit of a sore loser this time and it's nothing personal. I shouldn't have lost this game and I'm feeling extra bitter as I won't be able to reinforce this team which is one of the best I have drafted imo. I think both teams were well put together but I had the better quality overall. I would have probably only taken Stoichkov, Brehme, Djalma and Lothar from your team.

Sorry to say but Carrick and Vidal don't belong in the same bracket as the other midfielders on show here.

But ofcourse this isn't your fault and apologies again for the rant, I wish you the best for future rounds your team is a good one nethertheless and have always been a fan of your teams.
 
2mufc0 said:
Congratulations @oneniltothearsenal , you're one of the teams I wanted to avoid.

However please allow me to be a bit of a sore loser this time and it's nothing personal. I shouldn't have lost this game and I'm feeling extra bitter as I won't be able to reinforce this team which is one of the best I have drafted imo. I think both teams were well put together but I had the better quality overall. I would have probably only taken Stoichkov, Brehme, Djalma and Lothar from your team.

Sorry to say but Carrick and Vidal don't belong in the same bracket as the other midfielders on show here.

But ofcourse this isn't your fault and apologies again for the rant, I wish you the best for future rounds your team is a good one nethertheless and have always been a fan of your teams.
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Thanks, mate. You drafted a great team and I didn't want to play you either. I totally understand how frustrating it can be when you really love your team and can't reinforce. No hard feelings at all. Drafting is the most fun part after all.

No love for Conti? I love Conti and think he's underrated historically by the masses maybe because he pretty much was a one club man in the 80s. But I love him ad a player and he fits perfect in either of our sides and a few others in the draft due to his versatile and synergistic playstyle. He was one of two players I really wanted for that position.
 
2mufc0 said:
Congratulations @oneniltothearsenal , you're one of the teams I wanted to avoid.

However please allow me to be a bit of a sore loser this time and it's nothing personal. I shouldn't have lost this game and I'm feeling extra bitter as I won't be able to reinforce this team which is one of the best I have drafted imo. I think both teams were well put together but I had the better quality overall. I would have probably only taken Stoichkov, Brehme, Djalma and Lothar from your team.

Sorry to say but Carrick and Vidal don't belong in the same bracket as the other midfielders on show here.

But ofcourse this isn't your fault and apologies again for the rant, I wish you the best for future rounds your team is a good one nethertheless and have always been a fan of your teams.
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Wanted to comment this yesterday itself but couldn't - you should have represented the midfield as below -

-------Netzer---------Breitner-------
-----------Schweinsteiger----------

Would have made a significant difference due to multiple reasons all of which I am not in a state to type now
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Wanted to comment this yesterday itself but couldn't - you should have represented the midfield as below -

-------Netzer---------Breitner-------
-----------Schweinsteiger----------

Would have made a significant difference due to multiple reasons all of which I am not in a state to type now
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Agreed. Bastian as proper DLP makes the midfield work much better and allows Breitner more freedom like he had at later Bayern.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
Thanks, mate. You drafted a great team and I didn't want to play you either. I totally understand how frustrating it can be when you really love your team and can't reinforce. No hard feelings at all. Drafting is the most fun part after all.

No love for Conti? I love Conti and think he's underrated historically by the masses maybe because he pretty much was a one club man in the 80s. But I love him ad a player and he fits perfect in either of our sides and a few others in the draft due to his versatile and synergistic playstyle. He was one of two players I really wanted for that position.
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No I love Conte especially in your setup, it's just in a combined team I would play without wingers. Something like this

Stoichkov - Shevchenko
Netzer
Breitner - Matthaus
Schweinsteiger
Brehme - Varane- Beckenbauer - Djalma
Maier​
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Wanted to comment this yesterday itself but couldn't - you should have represented the midfield as below -

-------Netzer---------Breitner-------
-----------Schweinsteiger----------

Would have made a significant difference due to multiple reasons all of which I am not in a state to type now
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Fair enough, tbh in game positions naturally would have probably ended up that way.
 
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I think a Schweinsteiger/Breitner double pivot is spot on, if Schweini primarily restricts himself to a holding role (like in the NT 2010/2012). My issue is more with Netzer as the 3rd midfielder. Despite their different charactics in some ways, I see quite some overlap in their habits on the ball (all three of them). Schweinsteiger +1 would be ideal imo, with the third guy being of a completely different characteristic (dedicated runner like Wimmer, or needle player like Littbarski/Scholl).

Contrary to much of the Draft Forum, I see Schweinsteiger more as an allround #8 with playmaking/BTB/holding capabilities, rather than an actual DM. Although his versatility has allowed him to play that role to a high level when needed, of course. But at Bayern, he was usually paired with a specialist holder whenever possible. (edit: post van Gaal)
 
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When none of the front 3 bring playmaking into equation, prefer having two midfield playmakers rather than 1. Looks so much better.

Might have been the intent as 2mufc suggests, but formation pictures can be deceptive as multiple games have shown in this draft
 
Synco said:
Just to clarify, this is precisely what I meant with:

On the team sheet, I see at least 2,5 if not 3 midfield playmakers. The main issue is probably different views on Schweinsteiger.
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My concern was Breitner was being tasked with too much defensive work for his later Bayern role which is why I liked the picture with Bastian as DM.
 
Till this day, one of the best picks I ever saw (in relation to tactics and overall team dynamics) was - Federico Valverde.

Different strokes for different folks.

​

 
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