We badly lack penetrative ability into the final third.
Can it be fixed, or do we not have that player here?
Can it be fixed, or do we not have that player here?
Between the lines
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
It's just pass and move near the box for us until we lose the ball. We haven't seen a midfielder since Carrick who has the ability to do it which is shocking as even Maguire can play those passes sometimes when teams are sitting deep. I guess that's the reason we wanted De Jong so bad.
I'll never understand why we've been so reluctant to promote a creative player to the first team. Every player promoted to the first team is a workhorse with lower midtable level of ability.
I want Mainoo to get games. Hannibal should be back next season too.
Mainoo would be fantastic if he can replicate his form at the highest level. I hope TH gives him gametime somewhere. He could be the best we have out of the current crop.
He's the natural replacement for when Eriksen is unavailable/in need of a rest. Should have definitely been given the last 10/15 minutes yesterday as we needed a bit of magic and he definitely has the skill, creativity and vision to make something happen.
I think our biggest issue is we lack players who can play on the turn. This is a huge problem, especially getting the ball from the defensive third into the middle third.
At the moment the ball being passed from our CBs into one of our deepest midfielders, is an effective pressing trigger.
City and Liverpool have this happen too, but they have Bernardo Silva and Thiago respectively who can weasel their way out of the press there. Real Madrid have Modric who does the same. We need a CM who can drop into that defensive third to get a hold of the ball, kill the press and then move the ball on against a hopefully more vulnerable backline now.
At the moment the ball being passed from our CBs into one of our deepest midfielders, is an effective pressing trigger.
City and Liverpool have this happen too, but they have Bernardo Silva and Thiago respectively who can weasel their way out of the press there. Real Madrid have Modric who does the same. We need a CM who can drop into that defensive third to get a hold of the ball, kill the press and then move the ball on against a hopefully more vulnerable backline now.
We're missing players who have the ability to evade pressure and hence open the game up via a dribble. Mainoo and Hannibal have shown the potential to possibly be that player at first team level, where they can receive the ball comfortably in tight spaces in the deeper areas of the pitch and advance forward by breaking lines via carrying the ball. And top of that they're players who have the composure to find the pass after carrying the ball through the defensive and middle thirds. We don't have a single player in the first 11 who can do that and it makes it easier for the opponent to defend against us.
Completely agree. Many will want the club to invest in a midfielder, but the money simply isn't there. Laird will be brought back as Dalot's competition, while Mainoo and Hannibal should be given the opportunity to add to our midfield. Our money should be spent on a goalkeeper and a striker.
It’s definitely a thing with us. The athletic player will get his chances over the skilled, technical players. We’re narrowing and marginalising potential creative resources and pigeon-holing it into a handful of players at a time when we need as much of it as possible.
We go wide so often because we’re not able to go straight through the middle with any consistency or certainty of retaining the ball until we want to release it. Without the play between the lines, everything looks laboured, and more importantly, predictable.
What's worse is that we seem to just convert any technically gifted player in to a forward or an attacking midfielder.
Pedri would never have been trusted in midfield at a club like United.
These problems are becoming more apparent as the games pile up. Rightfully there’s discussion about our attack, but passage through midfield and into the final third is doing more damage as there’s no platform or stability from there for the forward line to take the reins from. Everything we do beyond the halfway line could be starting from 10-15 yards forward - like other teams - if we could work the ball through and into penetrative areas concisely and consistently.
Yeah it's what's hurting us. Honestly, I still think we could do with 2 signing midfielders next summer.
Try and reproduce the Real Madrid midfield - have a press evasive dribbler in the middle, and another player who's great at long range passing. All of a sudden our attackers should be able to attack defenders in more favourable positions
I would love to see that happen because normally all I see is fans wanting to find solutions via the transfer market and spending multi-millions in the process.
I could be wrong, but I haven't seen central midfielders as talented as Hannibal and Mainoo from the youth setup since the days of Ravel/Pogba.
Yes. This is something omitted when people assess our frontline - Sancho and Antony came from clubs that gave them the midfield base that allowed them to focus on their own jobs, with support inside and outside on the overlap off the back of the midfield controlling play and enabling the action that orbits it [midfield]. Without breaking the lines consistently, the opposition are rarely in disarray or more focused on protecting the heart of the team and so can flail out to double-team the wider players. With the appropriate penetration through the middle, that cannot happen, or certainly not with any kind of frequency.
There’s also the aspect of our wide players making cute runs on inside channels with nobody daring to hit them in that pocket of space, so the clever movement that was made becomes a wasted one with said wide player having to reset and start again. The lack of play between the lines is a big issue for me, one of our biggest. Without that nuance, it’s all blunt force, which may work out some of the time but is nothing to bank on.
Yeah fans are generally impatient and seek salvation via the perceived quick fix of the transfer market. However, you have to prioritise where to spend the money, whilst also looking at what you already have. Your final paragraph is spot on too.
Do you not think it's improved slightly already just by having Casemiro in MF? He's got that in his armoury. I also think putting Eriksen in Bruno's spot will help that no end. We missed Eriksens calm and incisive passing yesterday that's for sure.
Casemeiro is nothing great on the ball. He can play a good pass once in awhile but relying on him for these things is a mistake. Couple him with Fred and Bruno and you have a pedestrian midfield that's easy to force into playing side ways passes (or Hollywood balls in the case of Bruno)
I didn't say we should rely on Cass in isolation but he can play a quick forward / incisive pass, on the turn too. Couple anyone with Fred and Bruno and they'd struggle dude.
I don't think we have that profile in the squad. A central midfielder who has the ability to carry the ball and pass between the lines is what I've been crying out for at every opportunity. It looked like we were going to get it this summer but then he fecked us off.
I think the wishes for Mainoo and Hannibal (who definitely possess some of these traits, albeit illustrated at a lower level) are ambitious - I anticipate ten Hag to be extremely pragmatic with his squad selection, I don't anticipate any youth player getting a real bite for the next 18-24 months. Happy to be proven wrong, but I'd be extremely surprised.
My bet is it has to do with tactical discipline and readiness to compete physically and mentally on senior level.
All things we, as fans, have close to zero knowledge of.
He’s shown us what we should be doing with his quick releases into space, sure, but although he has the brain for it, he does need a wide berth to hit the kind of passes that really unsettle the opposition. We’ve all been pleased to see him hit those when he can, perhaps particularly so because it’s so exceedingly rare for us to see these last few years.
Agree about Eriksen and he does need to be given his shot at the gig, imo. Problem is: if he’s at point, who is supplying him? Unless we try the youngsters, I’m not sure we have a player can be trusted to make those passes into the receiver’s feet. Eriksen was voted our most important player on here, presumably because he is the only linking player we’ve used this season - it’s an indictment on the squad for there to be such an extreme single point failure (if we’re not going to try any other creative player there) - but he also feels land-locked in that moving him creates a problem in the area vacated.
I thought the game was crying out for composed and competent usage of the ball as there were so many really good runs bypassed that had the potential to unsettle Newcastle and get us right in amongst them.
Ronaldo is not the flavour of the
Anyway, I just hope it doesn’t take us a whole campaign to get this aspect sorted - if we’re not going to trust what’s here, then utilise a wide 4-3-3 and remove the need for as much transitional play… the system we’re using pretty much demands it, unfortunately.
Leave me out of this
The way how people see our issues seems like a never ending cycle.
I can only assume ETH hasn't changed his mind regarding our MF and still has another MF on his shopping list as it would make no sense to think otherwise. Our situation / deficiency hasn't changed and yesterday was a start reminder of that. ETH is way too astute to not see the difference made when Eriksen is left out of the team. I don't think ETH bought Eriksen to be a mainstay of that deeper central position even if he played there a bit at Brentford, I suspect ETH saw enough of Bruno to know what he was getting there. I think Eriiksen was brought in for his ability to cover both CM and Brunos role when needed.
Totally agree on Ronaldo, funnily enough, I was watching him during the warm up yesterday and he had a few tries at that, rolling off a coach and shooting, (I think he actually scuffed / missed / had saved his first 3 attempts, make of that what you will) but we didn't get anywhere near providing him that type of ball.