Best Player Ever 4way Draft R1: Pat vs Enigma

Who will win?


  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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TEAM PAT

AGE DEBUT-22

We've leveraged our youthful vigour and energy to the fullest by playing a high line and high pressing system loosely based on Erik ten Hag's thrilling 2018/19 Ajax team, and more specifically their big-match variant where Dusan Tadic would be deployed as a False 9. It's not a player-for-player remake, but the core principles remain intact:

  • Willingness to defend with a high line, and deploy an aggressive high press. More emphasis on verticality and dynamism than in a typical possession-based, positional play system.
  • A strong emphasis on technical quality and comfort in possession throughout the team, starting with the GK and CBs.
  • Wide attackers who are both comfortable moving infield to create, and running in behind to create depth.
  • Full-backs therefore responsible for maintaining the width.
  • A '10' who primarily excels with his off-the-ball movement.

AJAlineup.png




Defence:

Schalke version Neuer had already been named as Kicker Magazine's Bundesliga Goalkeeper of the Year as early as his debut season in 2006-07 and is an obvious fit for any tem requiring a ball-playing GK.

De Ligt was the defensive lynchpin of the Ajax side we're modelled on. Still only 23, he was the first and hitherto only defender to win the Golden Boy award, and had just about every top team in Europe vying for his signature after his preternaturally mature and influential performances for Ajax and the Netherlands. Alongside him, Gullit's timeframe encompasses his breakthrough at Haarlem and his entire stint at Feyenoord, where he was named Dutch Footballer of the Year in 1984. Having played variously as a sweeper, winger, midfielder and striker during this period, I could feasibly have plonked him in just about anywhere, but I'd always earmarked him for this role given both the lack of depth in the toddler CB pool and the importance of great ability on the ball for this system. It's an added bonus that he's one of those exceedingly rare players who can match up to R9 athletically.

At FB, Amoros already had both a league title for Monaco and an excellent World Cup for France under his belt at 22, while Alphonso Davies has somehow already made 153 appearances for Bayern at 22 years old, on top of 81 senior appearances for Vancouver Whitecaps before he made the move to Europe. A perennial in the VDV Bundesliga Team of the season, habitual Bundesliga winner and a CL winner in his first full season at Bayern, he's still raw but I'd argue that his dribbling and especially his ridiculous pace are already standout attributes for a LB in an all-time context.

Midfield:

I strongly considered just taking the obvious route and going for Frenkie De Jong as our midfield playmaker, but with him only having had one properly great season in the timeframe and me already having Edwards who also favoured the left side, I opted to maintain my Verratti fetish for another draft. And why not, given that he'd already competed effectively against the likes of Xavi and Iniesta before he turned 23, and looked for all the world like an all-time great in the making? Alongside him, Duncan Edwards, sadly one of the first names that came to mind when I landed the under-23 pool for obvious reasons. A stylistic departure from Schone in Ajax 2018-19, but a much better and more influential footballer, whose athleticism and ball-winning ability will be a vital bulwark against a stacked opposition attack.

Attack:

It's hard to believe that it was only a little more than four years ago that Donny van de Beek was playing a tactically crucial role in Europe's most exciting team. Anyhow, hes replaced here with Thomas Muller, who was already a seasoned pro at 22 years old, with a WC Golden Boot to his name. A specialist off-the-ball mover with a superb understanding of the game, he's also a tireless presser. Tostao replicates Tadic here as the left-footed, team-orientated and highly creative False 9. Months away from WC 70 where he memorably got the better of Moore to send Brazil through at England's expense, Tostao was in the hottest form of his international career as a 22 year old, hitting 12 goals in 10 matches in 1969, including one against Moore's England. Playing as a right-sided attacker, this incarnation of George Best was him at the peak of his powers, and he should relish playing the Ziyech role as the team's go-to creative option in the final third. On the other side, Blokhin replaces Neres - not much thought required here as Neres was just a good but fairly replacable contributor to the team, and Blokhin's devastating athleticism, work rate and end-product would fit the system to a tee.


TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-1-2
Defence:

At the heart of the defence we have the classic sweeper/stopper combo in Moore and Forster. Breitner will be in his early left back role where he can sure forward and provide width on the flank but also overload the midfield and score an occasional stunner from outside the box. Leandro in his attacking role providing width on the right.

Midfield:
Cerezo
in DLP role, flanked by two box to box midfielders in Schuster and Lerby providing the energy in their natural roles on the right and left side accordingly. Zico is the link between the midfield and attack playing in the hole.

Attack:
Young Neymar in his early Barca form alongside peak Fenomeno from his Barca/early Inter days.

Player profiles in up until they became 23:

Thibaut Courtois - Two times Zamora trophy and goalkeeper of the season for 12/13, as well as CL team of the season. Won the PL with Chelsea in his debut season as well.
Paul Breitner - His early Bayern days and 1974 WC where he was still 22. 3 BL titles on the trot, a WC and a EC winner. Twice kicker team of the season, in the team of the EURO's and WC.
Karheinz Forster - Kicker team of the season and EURO's winner in 1980.
Bobby Moore - FWA Footballer of the Year in 1964, West Ham player of the year in 61' and 63', FA cup winner in 63/64 season.
Leandro - Campeonato Carioca: 1978, 1979, 1979, 1981, Campeonato Brasileiro Série A: 1980, 1982, Intercontinental Cup: 1981, Copa Libertadores: 1981, Bola de Prata: 1982
Toninho Cerezo - Campeonato Mineiro winner in 1976, 1978, Campeonato Brasileiro Serie A 1977 runner up, Bola de Prata winner in 76,77, Bola de Ouro winner in 77.
Bernd Schuster - Ballon dor runner up in 80', third in 81', CWC winner with Barca in 81/82 and Copa del Rey winner 80/81.
Soren Lerby - Three times Eredivisie winner and 1 cup in his Ajax days.
Zico - 2 times bola de Prata winner, 1 Bola de Ouro. 55 games - 40 goals season in 1975, 50 games - 30 goals in 74, and 47/32 the year he was turning 23.
Neymar - early Santos days and two seasons at Barca (well at least February when he turned 23) up until 14/15 season where he was on fire and best season up to date.
Ronaldo - at his peak.
 
My initial feeling is that Team Enigma has more shining examples of the 'Debut-22' category versus Team Pat.

Fenômeno being a trump card in itself - supported by the likes of Zico, Schuster and Moore. What an execllent spine.
 
@Enigma_87 Any reason why Moore is RCB rather than LCB? I know classic draft pedantry but I still wonder.

Both teams are really well constructed but am really taken with Pat's 4231 false 9 side. I think even @Šjor Bepo would like it.
 
What was Zico like when he was younger? He didn't stand out to me while searching for good picks during the drafting stage although most of them are a bit like that.
 
My initial feeling is that Team Enigma has more shining examples of the 'Debut-22' category versus Team Pat.

Fenômeno being a trump card in itself - supported by the likes of Zico, Schuster and Moore. What an execllent spine.

Cheers mate. I've got little lucky to dip in some of the very hard positions to fill during the drafting process. Especially defensive players were hard to come by.
Good team from Pat. Playing a young Gullit where he began his career is nice!

But Enigma's side is just phenomenal. Zico-Ronaldo-Neymar against that young Defence just stands out.
Cheers, Edgar and thanks for setting it up.
 
@Enigma_87 Any reason why Moore is RCB rather than LCB? I know classic draft pedantry but I still wonder.

Both teams are really well constructed but am really taken with Pat's 4231 false 9 side. I think even @Šjor Bepo would like it.
Tbh although marginal, I prefer to put my better CB on the side where the more attacking full back is positioned. Unless he's a libero in Scirea/Beckenbauer mold that is. Moore is playing in a natural CB role here.
 
Tbh although marginal, I prefer to put my better CB on the side where the more attacking full back is positioned. Unless he's a libero in Scirea/Beckenbauer mold that is. Moore is playing in a natural CB role here.

Fair enough. I prefer putting the ball player on the side of the less attacking full-back as the can form more of a three in possession with the ball player in the centre.
 
What was Zico like when he was younger? He didn't stand out to me while searching for good picks during the drafting stage although most of them are a bit like that.
Zico was young bloomer and he was generally a prodigy from young age.
His talent was obvious from a young age and many turned up to see him run rings around the older children. He began playing for Juventude, a local futsal team run by friends and on Sundays he played for River Futebol Club.

In 1967 he had arranged to go for a trial at America (a Brazilian team where two of his brothers were professionals), but before then he scored nine goals in one game for River, and a radio reporter convinced his father to take him to Flamengo, who played at the iconic Maracanã stadium, instead. Zico was quite happy with that as that was the club he supported.

Being slight of build and only 4ft 9ins tall, he went on a body building programme, which was very successful and he scored 81 goals in 116 games for the youth team before turning professional in 1971. 1971 was also the year he represented Brazil for the first time, not in a full international, but in qualifiers for the 1972 Olympics. Zico played five times and scored the winner as an attacking midfielder v arch rivals Argentina.

He won both Bola de Prata twice - given to the best players in their respective position (forward, defender, etc.) in 74 and 75. He was also widely considered the best player in Brazil at that time in 1974 winning Bola de Ouro.
He helped Flamengo to win the Rio state championship in 1972 and 1974 whilst gaining a reputation for scoring from direct free kicks. Zico’s unique free kick technique, which saw him place significant importance on his standing foot, often saw him lean back and raise his knee at a very high angle when hitting the ball with his instep, thus enabling him to lift it high over the wall, before it dropped back down again.

He was chosen to play for the full Brazilian side for the first time v Uruguay in February 1976 and scored the winner six minutes from time in a 2-1 victory. He scored six times in his first nine internationals and instantly became a regular.

He was very dynamic and athletic and gained weight as pointed before turning pro.

1974/1975 he was already tearing the league apart.

Some videos from those years and also in 1976 when he was still 22 and turning 23:



He was already a phenomenal dribbler, great passer and also a proven goalscorer. To put it in perspective just in 1974 and 1975 he scored 70 goals in 105 matches. He carried that form in 1976 when he was turning 23 with another season with 32 goals in 47 games.. And as noted he carried that goalscoring form in 1976 in the NT as well.
 
My initial feeling is that Team Enigma has more shining examples of the 'Debut-22' category versus Team Pat.

Fenômeno being a trump card in itself - supported by the likes of Zico, Schuster and Moore. What an execllent spine.

Enigma's attack in particular is just overwhelmingly strong, but I'm happy with my fidelity to the theme and my under-23 credentials, with both Best and Blokhin winning their Ballon d'Ors during this timeframe, and sadly Edwards' entire senior career falling in it too.

Plus of course, the contemporary youngsters Davies and De Ligt, who haven't had the opportunity for their u-23 levels to be retrospectively burnished by what they do later in their career. Unpopular hot take incoming, but I think De Ligt's credentials actually compare quite favourably to Moore's in the timeframe. Moore had appeared in a World Cup but his performances don't seem to have been particularly noteworthy. He was closing in on his first trophy for West Ham as he turned 23, and hadn't appeared in European competition at all at this point. Meanwhile, De Ligt had appeared 49 times for Ajax and Juve in European matches, impressing in the Europa League final against Utd and subsequently being a key player for Ajax during their run to the CL semis. Moore's ability and leadership was reflected by his early rise to the West Ham and England captaincies, but then De Ligt has been a prodigy in that regard too:

transfermarkt said:
In his league debut for Ajax Amsterdam, he scored a goal and was, after Clarence Seedorf, the second youngest Ajax scorer.

First minor player who entered the game as a Dutch captain in Dutch professional football.

The youngest player ever in a UEFA European club final.

Youngest debutant of the Dutch national team since 1945.

The youngest captain in the history of Ajax Amsterdam.

The youngest captain in the knock-out phase of the Champions League on 19 and 186 days.
 
Well played @Enigma_87 . Lovely team, and devastating attack in particular. I knew I was unlikely to make it through here.

Happy with the finished product here though, and didn't have too many ideas for improvement. Although I just realised that with Iso going out I'd have landed my dream reinforcement if I'd went through - Beckenbauer in for Verratti in the Frenkie De Jong role :drool:.
 
Well played @Enigma_87 . Lovely team, and devastating attack in particular. I knew I was unlikely to make it through here.

Happy with the finished product here though, and didn't have too many ideas for improvement. Although I just realised that with Iso going out I'd have landed my dream reinforcement if I'd went through - Beckenbauer in for Verratti in the Frenkie De Jong role :drool:.
Good game mate! You threw me off with having only one CB from the first look of it. I thought Edwards would be your CB but didn't expect the Harlem version of Gullit for sure.

Great effort though and loved the setup especially with Tostao on top as a glue. :drool: