Battered by Brentford | Match Review | Transfer Talk | Rabiot | Garner | Glazers

That'sHernandez

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Nik (@Rood), Imran (Annihilate Now!) and Ashwin (@AR87) discuss United's embarrassing 4-0 loss to Brentford that no one was actually that shocked by. They discuss De Gea's poor keeping, Martinez height, and just generally how terrible we are at the moment - before turning to our transfer strategy, or lack thereof, and wonder once again, just what is going on at the club?





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Let us know what you think of the pod troops - agree or disagree on the points made? Questions for next week?

Hope you enjoy the pod guys, are any of you transfer muppets like Jamie? What do you want to see from us in the market before closing?

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Hard to disagree with anything you lot said. Especially agree with @AR87. The way this club is run is baffling.

Murtough interviewed and hired Ten Hag, yet you'd think he works for Ten Hag. All he's been seen to do is chase players Ten Hag knows, players we were linked to years ago or players who'd never come. It's bizarre and ridiculous.

How did this club hire Ten Hag four months ago, yet find itself unable to profile his Ajax squad and find itself able to suggests targets based on that personnel and system. That is the very least a Football Director and Head of Recruitment should be able to do. If they can't then the CEO should be asking why and if he's not the owners should be asking everyone why.

The fact you don't get the impression that this window was approached with anything but complacency calls everyone's competency into question.
 
Following on from @#07 Post I don't understand what the interviews with Ten Hag were actually about.

You'd imagine a vision was spoken about and he supposedly ripped the current squad to pieces, however we haven't signed a player in any of our least covered spots, as well as transfers dragging on into the last embers of the window.

Looking back at the announcement interviews Ten Hag made a very clear point that he had to ensure he was joining the right club before he decided to accept. I'd love to know what promises made in that meeting have already been broken.
 
P-Nut said:
Following on from @#07 Post I don't understand what the interviews with Ten Hag were actually about.

You'd imagine a vision was spoken about and he supposedly ripped the current squad to pieces, however we haven't signed a player in any of our least covered spots, as well as transfers dragging on into the last embers of the window.

Looking back at the announcement interviews Ten Hag made a very clear point that he had to ensure he was joining the right club before he decided to accept. I'd love to know what promises made in that meeting have already been broken.
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Your point about the interviews is something I have been thinking about a lot.

Surely, in those interviews, Ten Hag talked about his ideas for the team. He must have talked about how he wanted to press and become a possession team. Did it all go in one ear and out the other?

Honestly, it's not a secret how Ten Hag sets up. I bet our video analysts have hours of footage of his Ajax sides. How is it that nobody in our recruitment team can look at that, get a list of potential signings together and go: 'Hey Erik, these lads can play #6 in your system. Have a look.'
 
#07 said:
Hard to disagree with anything you lot said. Especially agree with @AR87. The way this club is run is baffling.

Murtough interviewed and hired Ten Hag, yet you'd think he works for Ten Hag. All he's been seen to do is chase players Ten Hag knows, players we were linked to years ago or players who'd never come. It's bizarre and ridiculous.

How did this club hire Ten Hag four months ago, yet find itself unable to profile his Ajax squad and find itself able to suggests targets based on that personnel and system. That is the very least a Football Director and Head of Recruitment should be able to do. If they can't then the CEO should be asking why and if he's not the owners should be asking everyone why.

The fact you don't get the impression that this window was approached with anything but complacency calls everyone's competency into question.
Click to expand...

Thing is that it's pretty clear that Ten Hag demanded more control over transfers and has been given it so all previous work on targets went out the window - chief scouts and negotiator were sacked, seemingly not replaced by anyone so Chief Negotiators are now Arnold/Murtough reporting to Joel Glazer for final sign off

I also understand that it was Ten Hag who didnt want to work with Rangnick so his recommended targets have also been pushed down the list

Still Erik has been failed by the transfer team, was clear the FDJ deal was extremely complicated a long time ago but they kept at it rather than moving on - getting only 1 player in for the Tour and 3 for season start is poor, its now clearly time for panic stations and probably throwing too much money at the wrong players
 
Rood said:
Thing is that it's pretty clear that Ten Hag demanded more control over transfers and has been given it so all previous work on targets went out the window - chief scouts and negotiator were sacked, seemingly not replaced by anyone so Chief Negotiators are now Arnold/Murtough reporting to Joel Glazer for final sign off

I also understand that it was Ten Hag who didnt want to work with Rangnick so his recommended targets have also been pushed down the list

Still Erik has been failed by the transfer team, was clear the FDJ deal was extremely complicated a long time ago but they kept at it rather than moving on - getting only 1 player in for the Tour and 3 for season start is poor, its now clearly time for panic stations and probably throwing too much money at the wrong players
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I take a lot of what's been reported with a pinch of salt. I doubt Ten Hag knows the Manchester press pack that well, so whatever they've written about him is probably the interpretation of other sources. Maybe that interpretation is right? However, I'm a bit suspicious that they have a reason for making out that it's all on Ten Hag. Gives them an excuse for failure.

Funnily enough, when Ten Hag was first appointed, the same reporters told us it was partly cos he would fit into the new structure. Cos he was used to being a head coach not a manager. However, the new structure seems to have been as much PR as everything else. We may have lost the two leading scouts but the club still has dozens of scouts and analysts. It was far from impossible for them to support recruitment.

As @AR87 said, if Ten Hag didn't want that, he should not have been appointed. However, it's hard to believe he did want that level of control. We know for a fact Ten Hag wasn't watching Sao Paulo games to scout Antony. Overmars presented him with options that he picked from. Why couldn't Murtough & co do the same?
 
#07 said:
I take a lot of what's been reported with a pinch of salt. I doubt Ten Hag knows the Manchester press pack that well, so whatever they've written about him is probably the interpretation of other sources. Maybe that interpretation is right? However, I'm a bit suspicious that they have a reason for making out that it's all on Ten Hag. Gives them an excuse for failure.

Funnily enough, when Ten Hag was first appointed, the same reporters told us it was partly cos he would fit into the new structure. Cos he was used to being a head coach not a manager. However, the new structure seems to have been as much PR as everything else. We may have lost the two leading scouts but the club still has dozens of scouts and analysts. It was far from impossible for them to support recruitment.

As @AR87 said, if Ten Hag didn't want that, he should not have been appointed. However, it's hard to believe he did want that level of control. We know for a fact Ten Hag wasn't watching Sao Paulo games to scout Antony. Overmars presented him with options that he picked from. Why couldn't Murtough & co do the same?
Click to expand...

There were stories even before Ten Hag was appointed saying that he had demanded full control over transfers - he confirmed it himself https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/ten-hag-says-he-insisted-on-total-control-of-united-transfers/

“I set requirements in advance about how I want to work,” he said.​
​
“If they aren’t granted, I won’t do it. I am ultimately responsible and accounted for the results.​
​
“I don’t want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me.”​

I am sure there is a still a scouting team who he will take advice from but our transfer department has wasted millions in recent times so why would he trust their opinion?

It is a risk giving one man all this control, but at the same time its now all on him and he cant complain about not getting his targets like Moyes, LvG etc - if Martinez or Malacia cant adapt to the PL then Ten Hag has to take the blame
 
Rood said:
There were stories even before Ten Hag was appointed saying that he had demanded full control over transfers - he confirmed it himself https://www.unitedinfocus.com/news/ten-hag-says-he-insisted-on-total-control-of-united-transfers/

“I set requirements in advance about how I want to work,” he said.​
​
“If they aren’t granted, I won’t do it. I am ultimately responsible and accounted for the results.​
​
“I don’t want to be the sole ruler, I stand for cooperation, but control in transfers is a condition for me.”​

I am sure there is a still a scouting team who he will take advice from but our transfer department has wasted millions in recent times so why would he trust their opinion?

It is a risk giving one man all this control, but at the same time its now all on him and he cant complain about not getting his targets like Moyes, LvG etc - if Martinez or Malacia cant adapt to the PL then Ten Hag has to take the blame
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I'd be curious to see if somebody fluent in Dutch could go listen to what he said in the interview. I wonder if that's not a totally accurate translation of what he said, and if rather what he said was closer to "I want to have a significant voice on transfer decisions".1

Either way, even if Casemiro and others come in before the window shuts, this has been another utterly shambolic window for us.
 
AR87 said:
I'd be curious to see if somebody fluent in Dutch could go listen to what he said in the interview. I wonder if that's not a totally accurate translation of what he said, and if rather what he said was closer to "I want to have a significant voice on transfer decisions".1

Either way, even if Casemiro and others come in before the window shuts, this has been another utterly shambolic window for us.
Click to expand...

Whatever he said, it's pretty clear that so far the players have been picked directly by Ten Hag and that chasing his top target FDJ has wasted too much time in this window - I suppose we can never know whether that call is on Joel Glazer or Ten Hag himself
 
Surely Chelsea aren’t that dumb ?
 
@#07

He didnt give much away (as is often his way) but was interesting to see Ten Hag asked specifically about how much control he has on transfers in his latest presser - I do believe he has a lot more control than most of our previous managers, whether that is a good or bad thing remains to be seen

On transfers, at Ajax you had Marc Overmars who you worked very closely with. How involved were you with transfers there, have you been more involved here than you were there? ​
''The same.''​
 
Rood said:
@#07

He didnt give much away (as is often his way) but was interesting to see Ten Hag asked specifically about how much control he has on transfers in his latest presser - I do believe he has a lot more control than most of our previous managers, whether that is a good or bad thing remains to be seen

On transfers, at Ajax you had Marc Overmars who you worked very closely with. How involved were you with transfers there, have you been more involved here than you were there? ​
''The same.''​
Click to expand...

That can be read several ways. Overmars did the team building so saying 'the same' could mean that, actually, while he has a veto on signings he's not actually driving moves for players like Casemiro.

Anyway, anything he says to the media can be taken with a pinch of salt. As you say he doesn't give much away. Before Brighton he said he was happy with the squad. I doubt we're getting the unvarnished truth from him in these public statements.
 
#07 said:
That can be read several ways. Overmars did the team building so saying 'the same' could mean that, actually, while he has a veto on signings he's not actually driving moves for players like Casemiro.

Anyway, anything he says to the media can be taken with a pinch of salt. As you say he doesn't give much away. Before Brighton he said he was happy with the squad. I doubt we're getting the unvarnished truth from him in these public statements.
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Ye and that is true of every manager in pressers - he couldnt say the squad is shit because it would affect team morale, although now that morale is already rock bottom he has been a bit more candid with comments about lack of #6, striker etc

I assume Casemiro was not first choice and has come instead of De Jong, there are reports we are still chasing FDJ but Id be amazed if he still comes at this point
 
Rood said:
Ye and that is true of every manager in pressers - he couldnt say the squad is shit because it would affect team morale, although now that morale is already rock bottom he has been a bit more candid with comments about lack of #6, striker etc

I assume Casemiro was not first choice and has come instead of De Jong, there are reports we are still chasing FDJ but Id be amazed if he still comes at this point
Click to expand...

Agreed. United very, very rarely brief when they end their interest in players. Two years ago they continued to pretend there was a possibility of singing Sancho right until that Spurs game. If he ends up at Chelsea I'm sure the usuals will tell us that, actually, United had ended their interest in De Jong ages ago etc. For some reason the club has this weird tendency to do the 'never wanted him anyway' thing that teenagers do when they get rejected. However, I expect the club to continue this De Jong pretense until September (maybe even beyond). Although, given De Jong started last night against Sociedad, I can't see him going anywhere right now.
 
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