At which other so-called giant would there not be a mass clearout for what has gone on this season?

Fortitude

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By giant, we're talking the usual suspects where not winning the league, or at least a trophy would lead to sackings, investigations and purging, if needs be.

Perhaps this could go in the football forum, but I'm curious, if anyone knows: what was the fallout from the aforementioned clubs for their worst season in recent history? No hysteria, just what came from absolute failure for each of them?

Also, I'm curious: as United fans, why would you willingly accept second chances for the vast majority of these players? I've never thought 'You're not fit to wear the shirt' has ever been more appropriately sung. So what should the club, as an institution, do about this?
 
Fortitude said:
By giant, we're talking the usual suspects where not winning the league, or at least a trophy would lead to sackings, investigations and purging, if needs be.

Perhaps this could go in the football forum, but I'm curious, if anyone knows: what was the fallout from the aforementioned clubs for their worst season in recent history? No hysteria, just what came from absolute failure for each of them?

Also, I'm curious: as United fans, why would you willingly accept second chances for the vast majority of these players? I've never thought 'You're not fit to wear the shirt' has ever been more appropriately sung. So what should the club, as an institution, do about this?
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Purge has already happened with the supporting crew, next it'll be the players turn and coaching staff.
 
There will be one.
Simply on out of contract players for the definites.
 
There's a huge difference between us and most other huge clubs. The Glazers. The important thing for us is to turn the club around and if that means gutting the staff including playing staff in order to get rid of the underlying negative element before it brings down any new signings then so be it.

But that's the important thing for us. The important thing for our owners is, and always will be maximising the return on their investment, and they will think that they can do that with a half-hearted approach because that's how they've approached everything since they arrived. They'll try to do it by just getting rid of a few key problems as they see it, and hope the new manager can work some magic on the cheap.
 
All of them, clear outs aren't really a thing and massive clear outs are definitely not a thing.
 
The reason we're finally getting rid of so many players on a free is because the ridiculous contracts we had given them meant there was no other way for us to get rid of them.

We need to stop giving players ridiculous contracts they haven't earned to protect their valuations. It takes any incentive to improve away from them since we are not really competing for any trophies anyway, and also burdens us with their contracts if they are proven to be not good enough.

There can't be a purge here like any other club because we can't get rid of our players unless we pay them off or their contracts expire. Says everything about the genius of Woodward and Judge.
 
@Fortitude in case you hadn't noticed, there is one happening right now. United have removed:
  1. Ed Woodward
  2. Jim Lawlor, head of scouting
  3. Marcel Bout
  4. Carrick, Solskjaer and McKenna have gone
  5. Rangnick himself will go on to Austria soon
And on the playing front, it's certain that Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, and Cavani are gone, and I would argue it's extremely likely that Ronaldo won't be here at the end of the season and maybe Rashford as well, as he enters the last year of his contract. That's 6 members of the 25 man squad
 
GazTheLegend said:
@Fortitude in case you hadn't noticed, there is one happening right now. United have removed:
  1. Ed Woodward
  2. Jim Lawlor, head of scouting
  3. Marcel Bout
  4. Carrick, Solskjaer and McKenna have gone
  5. Rangnick himself will go on to Austria soon
And on the playing front, it's certain that Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, and Cavani are gone, and I would argue it's extremely likely that Ronaldo won't be here at the end of the season and maybe Rashford as well, as he enters the last year of his contract. That's 6 members of the 25 man squad
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Nah Ronaldo is staying. The rest can feck off. But I agree the clear out has started already. It’s the only reason I’m optimistic is that we are finally taking steps to disrupt the shitty structure the club has had for years
 
GazTheLegend said:
@Fortitude in case you hadn't noticed, there is one happening right now. United have removed:
  1. Ed Woodward
  2. Jim Lawlor, head of scouting
  3. Marcel Bout
  4. Carrick, Solskjaer and McKenna have gone
  5. Rangnick himself will go on to Austria soon
And on the playing front, it's certain that Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, and Cavani are gone, and I would argue it's extremely likely that Ronaldo won't be here at the end of the season and maybe Rashford as well, as he enters the last year of his contract. That's 6 members of the 25 man squad
Click to expand...

Yes I don’t get the thread myself. It’s literally happening as we speak.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Nah Ronaldo is staying. The rest can feck off. But I agree the clear out has started already. It’s the only reason I’m optimistic is that we are finally taking steps to disrupt the shitty structure the club has had for years
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I'd like Ronaldo to stay but I don't see it myself. I think the club will cash in and start again. He's obv not the problem though, that back line of ours is grim
 
Around 10 players will go this summer, if that isn’t a mass exodus then what is? I do believe some of the players deserve another shot though because they are fundamentally good and talented players. So if we do as suggested and bin off Bruno, Sancho, Maguire, Ronaldo whos to say the next 5 through the door will be any better? These are some very talented players that have performed at a top level.
 
JPRouve said:
All of them, clear outs aren't really a thing and massive clear outs are definitely not a thing.
Click to expand...
You'd have to cross reference that with what actually happened at each giant's nadir. Which capitulations of such magnitude do you recall?
 
Chelsea finished 10th in 15/16 so even worse than you guys.

We signed 4 players the following summer (Kante, Alonso, Batshuayi and David Luiz).

Not really a "clear out" but a few new players and a new manager got us 1st place the following season.

If we can do it...
 
The players that are leaving are just the players that are quitting. There are no players that we are just getting rid of because they are no good. Well not yet anyway. So to me that doesnt really count as a clear out. We might be left with 75 percent of the problem players and because everyone else quit then Ten Haag has no choice but to work with whats left. Thats not a rebuild.
 
GazTheLegend said:
@Fortitude in case you hadn't noticed, there is one happening right now. United have removed:
  1. Ed Woodward
  2. Jim Lawlor, head of scouting
  3. Marcel Bout
  4. Carrick, Solskjaer and McKenna have gone
  5. Rangnick himself will go on to Austria soon
And on the playing front, it's certain that Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, and Cavani are gone, and I would argue it's extremely likely that Ronaldo won't be here at the end of the season and maybe Rashford as well, as he enters the last year of his contract. That's 6 members of the 25 man squad
Click to expand...

Actually I'm of the belief that the 2 scouting fellas left of their own accord and really behind the scenes not a lot else is going to change. Certainly we are already hearing that there's unlikely to be anyone else recruited in the scouting department which is worrying considering the Window opens next month. There was whispers about Paul Mitchell but that's all gone quiet.

Theres not even been anything substantial for a while about Ten Hag's number 2 either! I think some things happen around a certain time (season ticket renewals) to prick the fans ears up and make them think changes are coming.

I dont think they will listen to Rangnick as soon as the seasons finished, I think he will be gone and I really worry about the transfer window because I honestly cant see them getting any more than 3 in whereas you're looking at 7 or 8 going.

Next season could be an absolute disaster tbf.
 
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duffer said:
Chelsea finished 10th in 15/16 so even worse than you guys.

We signed 4 players the following summer (Kante, Alonso, Batshuayi and David Luiz).

Not really a "clear out" but a few new players and a new manager got us 1st place the following season.

If we can do it...
Click to expand...
Fortitude said:
You'd have to cross reference that with what actually happened at each giant's nadir. Which capitulations of such magnitude do you recall?
Click to expand...

The same applies to Real Madrid after 95/96 or Bayern in 2006/2007. You are not going to find actual clear outs.
 
duffer said:
Chelsea finished 10th in 15/16 so even worse than you guys.

We signed 4 players the following summer (Kante, Alonso, Batshuayi and David Luiz).

Not really a "clear out" but a few new players and a new manager got us 1st place the following season.

If we can do it...
Click to expand...

When you look at the ages of the squad and quality of players, though, it looks like a much easier rebuild there:

Hazard-------Costa---------RW(or Pedro or Willian)
------------Cesc--------#8----------
--------------------Matic-------------
LB------LCB--------RCB------Azpilicueta
-------------------Courtois----------------

and all those named players are between 24 and 27 (core prime ages) except a 29 year old Cesc. So it's basically fixing the backline and adding a box to box midfielder.

We have Sancho, Bruno and let's say Varane in the Cesc role of quality veteran who might age well, but where are the other 24-27 year old types? Rashford should be one but his game seems to have completely deteriorated, Shaw is unreliable and honestly nobody else comes to mind as ready to immediately be a core player except maybe Van Der Beek, who has struggled in English football but has been good for Ten Hag before and is the right age.

We'd change squads in an instant with that 10th place Chelsea side.
 
I never see massive clearances at clubs.

It takes time to get things right.

I think the quickest chop and change club is possibly Chelsea.

However they do things more methodically by targeting the best manager available that suits their bunch of players rather than chopping and changing players to fit a new manager every 2 years or so.
 
duffer said:
Chelsea finished 10th in 15/16 so even worse than you guys.

We signed 4 players the following summer (Kante, Alonso, Batshuayi and David Luiz).

Not really a "clear out" but a few new players and a new manager got us 1st place the following season.

If we can do it...
Click to expand...

Yup. Seems the Chelsea recruitment set-up is sharper too. Combo of good manager (please be good ten Hag) and that should see positive change take place.

Thread title: "So called giant" Christ. Short memories here.

"Giant" Liverpool had 30 years without a title.
 
Loon said:
Yup. Seems the Chelsea recruitment set-up is sharper too. Combo of good manager (please be good ten Hag) and that should see positive change take place.

Thread title: "So called giant" Christ. Short memories here.

"Giant" Liverpool had 30 years without a title.
Click to expand...

They still only have one title in more than 30 years. I'm a fan of Klopp but people really need to stop with Liverpool, they have useless outside of Klopp and there is no reason to think that they are not structurally useless without him.
 
Loon said:
Yup. Seems the Chelsea recruitment set-up is sharper too. Combo of good manager (please be good ten Hag) and that should see positive change take place.

Thread title: "So called giant" Christ. Short memories here.

"Giant" Liverpool had 30 years without a title.
Click to expand...
I think you've not interpreted the title correctly. United are a giant, but you don't state that.
 
Fortitude said:
By giant, we're talking the usual suspects where not winning the league, or at least a trophy would lead to sackings, investigations and purging, if needs be.

Perhaps this could go in the football forum, but I'm curious, if anyone knows: what was the fallout from the aforementioned clubs for their worst season in recent history? No hysteria, just what came from absolute failure for each of them?

Also, I'm curious: as United fans, why would you willingly accept second chances for the vast majority of these players? I've never thought 'You're not fit to wear the shirt' has ever been more appropriately sung. So what should the club, as an institution, do about this?
Click to expand...

At which 'other so-called giant' has there ever been a clear out? I don't recall one.

Generally, a new manager comes in and if he's good at his job things don't look as bad as they had seemed.

This is before we take into account the fact that we're in the middle of one anyway and this will extend to the players with so many out of contract at the end of the season.
 
duffer said:
Chelsea finished 10th in 15/16 so even worse than you guys.

We signed 4 players the following summer (Kante, Alonso, Batshuayi and David Luiz).

Not really a "clear out" but a few new players and a new manager got us 1st place the following season.

If we can do it...
Click to expand...
I expect something like this, mass clear out rarely happen unless a team is relegated
 
Mass clearout never happens. If any team had a season like this one, the manager would be gone. A few players would be signed in the summer for sure, but not a mass clearout by any means.

I've always said if there's an abnormally large amount of players underperforming, the likely issue is it's not the players. It's more likely the setup or the level of coaching. Thats why clubs get a new manager, a few players, reassess the following season. No point trying to second guess how many players you need to replace when a) it could be more or less than you think (evident when you think of how many we thought were needed beginning of the season vs now) and b) You might want to keep a player you wanted to go previous, and vice versa.
 
JPRouve said:
The same applies to Real Madrid after 95/96 or Bayern in 2006/2007. You are not going to find actual clear outs.
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I've mentioned why Chelsea are different before, but I'm not trying to take away from duffers' post. I don't even know if that is considered a nadir given the consensus was downed tools at the time rather than a gaggle of players simply not being up to par.

I'd love to hear from some Bayern or Madrid fans as to their thoughts at those times.
 
Every single player in the squad has a 50 percent higher salary than they should have

Jones, Mata, Bailly, Hendo, Lingard, Matic, Cavani... all close to or higher than 100k per week. They've barely been used this season.
 
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Tango80 said:
Mass clearout never happens. If any team had a season like this one, the manager would be gone. A few players would be signed in the summer for sure, but not a mass clearout by any means.

I've always said if there's an abnormally large amount of players underperforming, the likely issue is it's not the players. It's more likely the setup or the level of coaching. Thats why clubs get a new manager, a few players, reassess the following season. No point trying to second guess how many players you need to replace when a) it could be more or less than you think (evident when you think of how many we thought were needed beginning of the season vs now) and b) You might want to keep a player you wanted to go previous, and vice versa.
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I agree with this but we have so many old / shit players that a clear out is naturally going to happen over the next couple of years whatever we do. Question is, can the new coach focus the minds of whoever is left and get some shrewd additions playing well to improve the quality level? I hope he will be able to. I don't think we're winning the league next year though!
 
GazTheLegend said:
I'd like Ronaldo to stay but I don't see it myself. I think the club will cash in and start again
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Where does he realistically go? Even if we wanted him to go I doubt we'd be able to shift him. He'll see out his contract and ETH will have one season for us to transition to a younger strike force.
 
TwoSheds said:
I agree with this but we have so many old / shit players that a clear out is naturally going to happen over the next couple of years whatever we do. Question is, can the new coach focus the minds of whoever is left and get some shrewd additions playing well to improve the quality level? I hope he will be able to. I don't think we're winning the league next year though!
Click to expand...

But that's not a clear out, that's the normal life of any club in the world. A clear out would imply something deliberate and not part of a long term process.
 
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JPRouve said:
But that's not a clear, that's the normal life of any club in the world. A clear out would imply something deliberate and not part of a long term process.
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Well...sort of. We are letting Mata go, presumably deliberately. Jones will almost certainly be helped to find a new club one way or another. Bailly might be allowed to leave. Martial will hopefully go. Some of this at least will be deliberate.
 
TwoSheds said:
Well...sort of. We are letting Mata go, presumably deliberately. Jones will almost certainly be helped to find a new club one way or another. Bailly might be allowed to leave. Martial will hopefully go. Some of this at least will be deliberate.
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Of course some of it will be deliberate but that's a normal amount of players. Here we are in the context of clear out, that would for example mean deliberately pushing under contract and "key" players out, we are not talking about fringe and old players leaving a club otherwise every club has a massive clear out every year.
 
GazTheLegend said:
I'd like Ronaldo to stay but I don't see it myself. I think the club will cash in and start again. He's obv not the problem though, that back line of ours is grim
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I’m not sure he stays either. He wants to be in a successful club, not one that loses 4-0 to Brighton
 
You don’t know, and we have no evidence to suggest a clear out will not happen in the summer. This awful season has not finished yet.

Id say from what we’ve seen that changes are happening though, so a weird way to express frustration after yesterdays defeat.
 
Answering your second question, not one of these player deserve a second chance. If they have no pride, they don't deserve to play for this club.
 
There will be a few players leaving because they are out of contract but I just cannot see a mass clear out. For a start who would buy them?
The board will think that ETH can wave a magic wand and somehow make these lazy selfish players into an Ajax clone within about 6 weeks. By xmas ETH and the rest of us will be totally pissed off because nothing has changed.
My only hope is that finally makes someone at the top realise that it really does need the full sweep. Im think at least 3 transfer windows though because we arent spending 500 mill in one go.
 
GazTheLegend said:
@Fortitude in case you hadn't noticed, there is one happening right now. United have removed:
  1. Ed Woodward
  2. Jim Lawlor, head of scouting
  3. Marcel Bout
  4. Carrick, Solskjaer and McKenna have gone
  5. Rangnick himself will go on to Austria soon
And on the playing front, it's certain that Pogba, Lingard, Mata, Matic, and Cavani are gone, and I would argue it's extremely likely that Ronaldo won't be here at the end of the season and maybe Rashford as well, as he enters the last year of his contract. That's 6 members of the 25 man squad
Click to expand...

Some good points.
But I don't believe players like Maguire, Rashford, Scot Mct, Fred, etc will be sold. We'll hang onto these deadwood players and probably extend their contracts with big wages.
 
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