Arne Slot | Liverpool manager (Posture and/or Sack Watch)

Sandikan said:
There's nothing to suggest City on Pep's worst ever run will suddenly produce at Anfield, a place they tend to win at once every decade or so.
Spurs never do the job on Liverpool that they do on City either.

But I hope you're right.
It was a weird one today, we all thought it'd be a comfy win, yet it took the usual sort of shenanigans (tight call going their way one end, pen the other) to see them through narrowly.
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There's quite a few tough away games in the Premier League. The more obvious tough away games are away to the big 6, but how you handle going to places just outside of those teams like Newcastle , Villa, Brighton can go a long way into determining your season. Then there's team like Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham who can game raise and give you a right good game at home.

Liverpool have literally played the bottom 4, Utd and Arsenal as their away games. The Utd win because of the rivalry will always be deemed as a good win. That Arsenal game could have gone either way, but they'll see that as a very decent point.

I am comfortable enough to say that they have done very well getting the results they have, but still I'd like to see them in this tougher run coming up to give me more of a picture of where I see them.

Because I'm an Arsenal fan, I'm basically just trying to judge them just now by if I think Arsenal can catch them. If they get to Xmas still unscathed, I don't see anyone catching them, because they'll have proved themselves through tougher tests and came out the other end in tact (or of course Arsenal haven't been good enough to put a run together).
 
GoonerBear said:
There's quite a few tough away games in the Premier League. The more obvious tough away games are away to the big 6, but how you handle going to places just outside of those teams like Newcastle , Villa, Brighton can go a long way into determining your season. Then there's team like Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham who can game raise and give you a right good game at home.

Liverpool have literally played the bottom 4, Utd and Arsenal as their away games. The Utd win because of the rivalry will always be deemed as a good win. That Arsenal game could have gone either way, but they'll see that as a very decent point.

I am comfortable enough to say that they have done very well getting the results they have, but still I'd like to see them in this tougher run coming up to give me more of a picture of where I see them.

Because I'm an Arsenal fan, I'm basically just trying to judge them just now by if I think Arsenal can catch them. If they get to Xmas still unscathed, I don't see anyone catching them, because they'll have proved themselves through tougher tests and came out the other end in tact.
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The league's hope is still City - it's imperative they don't lose at Anfield, as they won't make 11 points up.
Really can't see Arsenal making up double digit points from December either, as you'd need to be near perfect to do so.
 
The amount of easy goals through stupid mistakes the opposition is giving them is ridiculous. The 1st was playing out from the back, stupid from the GK for the second and all the luck for the 3rd.
 
It's a piss poor league this year but fair play he's won the title before Christmas at his first attempt. Even he must be surprised at how easy it's been.
 
Typically, we end up getting the Dutch manager who turns into a failure (results wise, not trophies) and they hire Slot who's not exactly a top manager but ends up winning a piss poor league
 
Sandikan said:
The league's hope is still City - it's imperative they don't lose at Anfield, as they won't make 11 points up.
Really can't see Arsenal making up double digit points from December either, as you'd need to be near perfect to do so.
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I agree. It's why I'm looking at 2 things up to Xmas from an Arsenal perspective, will Liverpool drop points in these games against City, Everton, Newcastle and Spurs in particular, and at the same time with Odegaard back and squad fitness looking better, can Arsenal now put a run together to close a ga?

If that gap isn't closed for whatever reason, then Liverpool would need to throw it away really 2nd half of the season.
 
Sandikan said:
The league's hope is still City - it's imperative they don't lose at Anfield, as they won't make 11 points up.
Really can't see Arsenal making up double digit points from December either, as you'd need to be near perfect to do so.
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I'm confident Arsenal will put in a strong showing in the second half of the season.

They'll probably draw level with Liverpool or even go slightly ahead. At that point, Arteta would crap his pants at the pressure, go ultra defensive and lose at home to a middling team.
 
Some say everyone plays the same fixtures and the order makes no difference.
But that's always been nonsense. Liverpool getting Arsenal away, an easily loseable game with Odegaard out, Saka on one ankle, Saliba out, then other defensive injuries during the game is real luck.
Hopefully like a recent season it all seemed to be going one way it changes.
 
People can call me whatever they want but at this I'm comfortably rooting for Liverpool when it comes against city.

All the club rivalry aside it should be obvious to anyone how much more detrimental the success of the latter is on football as a whole.
 
They are at home against City so they have a great opportunity to go 11 points clear. Still many games to play though anything can happen.
 
I really don't understand it. They're scrappy and horrible to watch, they barely create a chance, they don't move the ball smoothly or have high technical ability, they're not good defensively, they're kick and rush football is awful to watch...and yet somehow they keep winning.

Did they create a chance in open play yesterday? As usual, it was major opposition mistakes that led to all three of their goals.

Makes me wonder...why do they benefit from so many penalties and opposition clangers?

It can't just be luck...is it because they throw the ball forward and into the box so regularly? Contrast with United...can't remember the last time we scored from some kind of goalkeeping error or defensive blunder (in the league), is it because we don't get the ball forward enough / into the box enough or because we don't have decent numbers forward?

Is it literally as simple as having one really good player, being fit and athletic in every position and playing "percentages" football?
 
Red the Bear said:
People can call me whatever they want but at this I'm comfortably rooting for Liverpool when it comes against city.

All the club rivalry aside it should be obvious to anyone how much more detrimental the success of the latter is on football as a whole.
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Let me know how do you feel when they'll be on number 20.
 
Lentwood said:
I really don't understand it. They're scrappy and horrible to watch, they barely create a chance, they don't move the ball smoothly or have high technical ability, they're not good defensively, they're kick and rush football is awful to watch...and yet somehow they keep winning.

Did they create a chance in open play yesterday? As usual, it was major opposition mistakes that led to all three of their goals.

Makes me wonder...why do they benefit from so many penalties and opposition clangers?

It can't just be luck...is it because they throw the ball forward and into the box so regularly? Contrast with United...can't remember the last time we scored from some kind of goalkeeping error or defensive blunder (in the league), is it because we don't get the ball forward enough / into the box enough or because we don't have decent numbers forward?

Is it literally as simple as having one really good player, being fit and athletic in every position and playing "percentages" football?
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Good players, good coaching and a system whereby each player knows his role. It's no coincidence that players like Gravenberch are playing so well.

It helps that we have probably 2 of the best 5 players in the league, but the coaching has got us to where we currently are, I believe.
 
Pascal Quiff said:
Good players, good coaching and a system whereby each player knows his role. It's no coincidence that players like Gravenberch are playing so well.

It helps that we have probably 2 of the best 5 players in the league, but the coaching has got us to where we currently are, I believe.
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I would agree that coaching is a huge part of it.

Gary Neville was mocked for comparing the Liverpool midfield with the United midfield before you destroyed us again at OT but I agree with his general point.

On paper, Mainoo, Ugarte and Fernandes is at least as good, if not better, than Jones, Gravenbech and Mac Allister. However...on the one hand you have three players who have been poorly coached and three who have been extremely well-coached to do their specific role very well.

I still stick to my guns that Liverpool's football is really ugly and relies more on forcing mistakes than creating chances through thier own guile, but it won't matter when they win it come the end of the season, all that will matter are results.

It does also help having Salah who is an absolute machine, can't wait for him to retire
 
Lentwood said:
I really don't understand it. They're scrappy and horrible to watch, they barely create a chance, they don't move the ball smoothly or have high technical ability, they're not good defensively, they're kick and rush football is awful to watch...and yet somehow they keep winning.
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Almost as if that isn't actually true.

Scored 24, second highest in the league.
Xg 27.8, highest in the league.
Big chances created 36, highest in the league.

conceded 8, lowest in the league.
XgA 12.4, lowest in the league.
 
B20 said:
Almost as if that isn't actually true.

Scored 24, second highest in the league.
Xg 27.8, highest in the league.
Big chances created 36, highest in the league.

conceded 8, lowest in the league.
XgA 12.4, lowest in the league.
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So boring to start banging on about arbitrary stats...hadn't United missed the most big chances in the league until very recently? Does that mean we should be top or second top?

You created three big chances yesterday, all three of them the result of horrendous mistakes by the opposition. The "how" the chances are created is not reflected in XG.

What I, and many other rival fans, are interested in is WHY opponents make more mistakes against Liverpool...and I clearly say in my post it can't just be luck. It's likely a combination of Liverpool's athleticism, hard-work and willingness to chuck the ball forward.
 
Lentwood said:
What I, and many other rival fans, are interested in is WHY opponents make more mistakes against Liverpool...and I clearly say in my post it can't just be luck. It's likely a combination of Liverpool's athleticism, hard-work and willingness to chuck the ball forward.
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The way I see this team, without any reference to stats, is that we work less hard under Slot than Klopp, keep the ball better, defend far better, produce fewer chances but the ones we do produce are of higher quality. Basically more focused in our efforts and less percentage football.

And so far, we've been the better team in every game we've played except Forest and Arsenal. Arsenal, annoyingly were there for the taking in the second half.
 
If they don't win it now, it will be a disaster for them. It must be a bit weird knowing the title is theirs to lose now, yet we are still in November. Will it be an anti climax for them if they do win it now, having all this time getting use to it.
 
Lentwood said:
I really don't understand it. They're scrappy and horrible to watch, they barely create a chance, they don't move the ball smoothly or have high technical ability, they're not good defensively, they're kick and rush football is awful to watch...and yet somehow they keep winning.

Did they create a chance in open play yesterday? As usual, it was major opposition mistakes that led to all three of their goals.

Makes me wonder...why do they benefit from so many penalties and opposition clangers?

It can't just be luck...is it because they throw the ball forward and into the box so regularly? Contrast with United...can't remember the last time we scored from some kind of goalkeeping error or defensive blunder (in the league), is it because we don't get the ball forward enough / into the box enough or because we don't have decent numbers forward?

Is it literally as simple as having one really good player, being fit and athletic in every position and playing "percentages" football?
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I saw both the liverpool and our game yesterday and for me the difference was night and day. They remind me a little bit of united under Fergie in that they constantly attack and suffocate the opposition defenders. This is the reason why they get so many pens and opposition clangers, because they are always hounding the defenders, they force them into mistakes. This is what we did with Fergie at the helm.

Plus they have a plethora of good, attacking players and they have a star player in Mo Salah who can change a game in an instant.
 
Josh 76 said:
If they don't win it now, it will be a disaster for them. It must be a bit weird knowing the title is theirs to lose now, yet we are still in November. Will it be an anti climax for them if they do win it now, having all this time getting use to it.
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Nah. I am not accepting "we've barely played anyone yet" and "the title is ours to lose."

If we're in a similar place after Everton away, then it's ours to lose.
 
Got away with another penalty not being awarded against them yesterday, at a time where Southampton could have gone 3-1 up. I can now recall 5 penalties this season that should have been given against them that haven't been.
 
Lentwood said:
I really don't understand it. They're scrappy and horrible to watch, they barely create a chance, they don't move the ball smoothly or have high technical ability, they're not good defensively, they're kick and rush football is awful to watch...and yet somehow they keep winning.

Did they create a chance in open play yesterday? As usual, it was major opposition mistakes that led to all three of their goals.
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Seems like you really don't understand it yeah. "Not good defensively" yet we have conceded 3 goals less than the second best defensive team in the league :lol:

And off the top of my head: Diaz missed a sitter a few feet away from goal right after coming on yesterday. Salah hit the post. That's two I can remember in a second yet you bang on that we didn't create anything apart from their "mistakes".
 
Remember the geese said:
Got away with another penalty not being awarded against them yesterday, at a time where Southampton could have gone 3-1 up. I can now recall 5 penalties this season that should have been given against them that haven't been.
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Are you also counting penalties not awarded to us that should have been given or how does this work?
 
We can say they got abit lucky but you make your own luck in this league. I watched the second half of the game and they layed siege to Southampton. Utd could barely muster the ability to sit outside the Ipswich box in comparison. Van dyke was playing just outside the Southampton box. That kind of pressure will pay off more often than not, we should know, Fergie used to do it most weeks.
 
RobinLFC said:
Seems like you really don't understand it yeah. "Not good defensively" yet we have conceded 3 goals less than the second best defensive team in the league :lol:

And off the top of my head: Diaz missed a sitter a few feet away from goal right after coming on yesterday. Salah hit the post. That's two I can remember in a second yet you bang on that we didn't create anything apart from their "mistakes".
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I do understand it, too well - that's the problem.

XG is too nuanced and complex to mean anything over small sample sizes like one game or even eleven games (or however many we've played).

On your point about defensive statistics...surely United are the best defensive team, we have the most clean sheets? Statistics...brilliant aren't they.

You created those chances at 3-2...I'll give you that, when Southampton were mentally broken.

Look, I'm not digging out Liverpool here necessarily...you're obviously doing some things very well.

What I am saying is that, as an observer, it's ugly and attrional and relies really on wearing the opposition down and having good athletes all over the pitch as opposed to superstars.

It's frustrating, as a rival fan, to see goals scored week in, week out, due to bad errors by opponents...but if Liverpool have mastered a method of playing which forces those mistakes and allows you to capitalise on them...well three points is three points. There was a stat last season about how many points Liverpool gained in the 75th minute +...again, fitness, wearing teams down, boxing them in when they're knackered.

I guarantee you would feel the same if you watched City win week in, week out through penalties and bad mistakes...but they don't. When they win (feels like a while since they have) it's almost always total and utter domination of the ball, of possession and of chances.
 
Lentwood said:
I

Look, I'm not digging out Liverpool here necessarily...you're obviously doing some things very well.

What I am saying is that, as an observer, it's ugly and attrional and relies really on wearing the opposition down and having good athletes all over the pitch as opposed to superstars.
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You’re over-simplifying things - obviously.

Liverpool have probably the only ‘superstar’ CB in the league. The goalkeeper is superstar-adjacent. The right back may well be at Real Madrid next season and the right winger is possibly the biggest superstar in the league barring one or two debatable alternatives.

The idea that this is some industrious set of hackers who rely on opposition mistakes is quite incorrect. In the lead up to Liverpool’s winning goal yesterday, Southampton went almost 12 minutes without touching the ball in Liverpool’s half. Their windpipe was slowly closing and the handball mistake was a product of being completely overwhelmed.

Slot is very controlled and Liverpool aren’t all action - and you’re not obliged to love it - but to confuse that with attritional is misdirected.
 
Momentum from such an easy prolonged start is a very powerful thing. It breeds confidence and belief and they are still riding that wave.
 
PickledRed said:
You’re over-simplifying things - obviously.

Liverpool have probably the only ‘superstar’ CB in the league. The goalkeeper is superstar-adjacent. The right back may well be at Real Madrid next season and the right winger is possibly the biggest superstar in the league barring one or two debatable alternatives.

The idea that this is some industrious set of hackers who rely on opposition mistakes is quite incorrect. In the lead up to Liverpool’s winning goal yesterday, Southampton went almost 12 minutes without touching the ball in Liverpool’s half. Their windpipe was slowly closing and the handball mistake was a product of being completely overwhelmed.

Slot is very controlled and Liverpool aren’t all action - and you’re not obliged to love it - but to confuse that with attritional is misdirected.
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True. Alisson is Onana adjacent.
 
Liverpool fans won't care but this title win feels underwhelming, it sort of feels like their winning because other teams are bad rather than being really good.

I highly doubt City will reach 90 points and maybe not even 85.

Their last title win felt more like a culmination of good seasons gone by and their Finish The Story™ moment.

It's a bit like City's 2nd title win, Liverpool slipped and Mourinho seemed content to be out of the race near the end and United were nowhere near it.
 
Red the Bear said:
People can call me whatever they want but at this I'm comfortably rooting for Liverpool when it comes against city.

All the club rivalry aside it should be obvious to anyone how much more detrimental the success of the latter is on football as a whole.
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Rooting for Liverpool

There is never any excuse
 
Next two games are Real Madrid at home, and man city at home... If they win those two, it's surely gotta do down as the best start to a managers career at a new team ever.
 
FriedClams said:
Next two games are Real Madrid at home, and man city at home... If they win those two, it's surely gotta do down as the best start to a managers career at a new team ever.
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The weird thing is, who actually would want Slott as their manager?
 
FriedClams said:
Next two games are Real Madrid at home, and man city at home... If they win those two, it's surely gotta do down as the best start to a managers career at a new team ever.
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Both teams are in disarray this season.
 
Lentwood said:
I really don't understand it. They're scrappy and horrible to watch, they barely create a chance, they don't move the ball smoothly or have high technical ability, they're not good defensively, they're kick and rush football is awful to watch...and yet somehow they keep winning.

Did they create a chance in open play yesterday? As usual, it was major opposition mistakes that led to all three of their goals.

Makes me wonder...why do they benefit from so many penalties and opposition clangers?

It can't just be luck...is it because they throw the ball forward and into the box so regularly? Contrast with United...can't remember the last time we scored from some kind of goalkeeping error or defensive blunder (in the league), is it because we don't get the ball forward enough / into the box enough or because we don't have decent numbers forward?

Is it literally as simple as having one really good player, being fit and athletic in every position and playing "percentages" football?
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One thing they do well is continuously pressure the opposition. So even if they aren’t creating these golden chances, they keep probing and asking questions of the defense to where eventually you get a mistake.

It’s one of the things I think United has failed at for years. We rarely keep the pressure on an opponent for 15-20 minutes at a time around their own box when we need a goal. Everyone complains about breaking down low blocks but most of the time scoring against low blocks for any team comes from volume of potential chances, not some Barca esque interplay to walk the ball in. Make a team defend the box for 20 straight minutes and keeping our crosses, shots etc and eventually something will break.
 
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