Are there any decent non-inverted wingers around?

Physiocrat

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By non-inverted I mean players who played like Nani did on the right. Their instinct is to go on the outside rather than the inside and focus on providing crosses, cut backs, square balls etc rather than goalscoring.

Edit - whilst Nani wasn't as traditional as Antonio Valencia, he clearly had much more of an inclination to stay wide right, cross and create than someone like Saka.
 
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Physiocrat said:
By non-inverted I mean players who played like Nani did on the right. Their instinct is to go on the outside rather than the inside and focus on providing crosses, cut backs, square balls etc rather than goalscoring.
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play Antony on the left
 
They more often than not play at full back or at wingback nowadays.
 
I thought Sancho was supposed to be when he arrived, but then he made sure to tell everyone that he preferred to play off the left like 4 others in our squad at the time and every other dime a dozen winger.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
I thought Sancho was supposed to be when he arrived, but then he made sure to tell everyone that he preferred to play off the left like 4 others in our squad at the time and every other dime a dozen winger.
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Yeah, that's what people said but when I watched a number of all touch comps of him at Dortmund it was obvious he preferred cutting in from the left.
 
Adingra at Brighton? We had Pellestri too. Nico Williams is happy enough going on the outside from either wing. Dwight McNeil particularly when he was at Burnley. Jack Harrison when he was at Leeds. Leroy Sane a couple of years ago. Adama Traore also.
 
Very rare nowadays, nearly all teams preferring that player to cut in and provide goal threat rather than being seen primarily as a creator. One time a lot of of wingers would end up with many more assist than goals, now it's very often the other way around. Like others have said it's the full backs doing that job now much of the time.

2 striker formations largely gone as part of it and number 10s as well. The whole shift away from 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 to 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 to give them more players in the middle of the pitch to control the midfield and have defensive cover in that area to defend on transitions while still having goals in the team. Removing a striker and turning wide players into goalscorers was the way to do it.

Everyone liking to attack in a similar shape with 5 forward when trying to score a goal vs opponent's back 4 to gain a numerical advantage that way and create overloads. Your right back outside the opponent's left back, your right winger/inside forward moves inside him to create a 2 on 1 in the half space. Their left winger should be tracking back too to prevent it but it's the times they don't, the times their own full back is out of position because he's been attacking too, or the times you get through that anyway which creates the chaos on the flanks. Draw a central defender out of position after that for the classic City cutback goal under Pep or a square pass and tap in. If the central defender stays with his man or marks his default zone the inverted winger can shoot himself and is on his ideal foot to do so for the Thierry Henry trademark curling finish to the far post.

It's also more difficult for goalkeepers to come and claim inswinging crosses from the inverted players than it is from the traditional wingers the times they do cross as the flight of the ball stays further away from them as a rule. Another reason why teams love it.
 
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Stadjer said:
I wouldnt use Nani as an example. He did both. He could go inside and outside.
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On the right he would cut in and shoot on his left, that's true. But his focus was on providing and not goalscoring and generally went on the outside.
 
didz said:
Adingra at Brighton? We had Pellestri too. Nico Williams is happy enough going on the outside from either wing. Dwight McNeil particularly when he was at Burnley. Jack Harrison when he was at Leeds. Leroy Sane a couple of years ago. Adama Traore also.
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Good shouts, especially early Sane.
 
Pulisic has more games on the right than left for Milan



As we can see from the video still comes central onto his leftfoot at times
 
I liked Sane at City on the left and don’t think he’s got the smarts to do the inverted thing coming off the right at Bayern.
 
Rodrygo is right footed and plays on the right a lot, doesn’t he? I don’t watch Real all that often though.

Sterling is/was quite comfortable at going either side. Di Maria as well.
 
You could probably argue Yamal performs both roles at the moment. His passing range (specifically that in-swinging cross and the trivela) and focus on creating make him nearly as dangerous from traditional wing positions, and he's very comfortable going on the outside.

He doesn't really seem to prioritize isolating his full-back, though, generally taking more central or withdrawn positions.
 
It's a real shame that role has almost been removed.

The whole cutting inside and shooting I find a bit boring and predictable.

Also how often does it actually work? Seems a pretty low percentage way of scoring goals.
 
Marwood said:
It's a real shame that role has almost been removed.

The whole cutting inside and shooting I find a bit boring and predictable.

Also how often does it actually work? Seems a pretty low percentage way of scoring goals.
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If you have the time, this is a quite a good take on it. Tried to explain it myself in a post already in this thread but videos with visuals are easier to follow.


Started looking at it more recently as I'm one of those who plays the Football Manager computer game, wanting my team in that to play the more old-fashioned way as a bit of a throwback. In that game, just like in the real-world most people like to play with the inverted wingers or inside forwards which is very similar. Some claim the compuetr game favours the inverted players, that it's easier to win that way but it's just a reflection of what a lot of coaches do now anyway. Real world coaches find it easier to win that way too.

Edit: Just 2 little errors in that vid I saw, where he talks about the inverted winger cutting in and crossing to the back post at around 6:45 his graphics show the flight of an outswinging cross where he talks about an inswinger which is what it would actually be. In the same segment when talking about switching play to the full back on the far flank, it's the same, the arc of the ball would be a bit different. Otherwise good stuff.
 
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Chipper said:
If you have the time, this is a quite a good take on it. Tried to explain it myself in a post already in this thread but videos with visuals are easier to follow.


Started looking at it more recently as I'm one of those who plays the Football Manager computer game, wanting my team in that to play the more old-fashioned way as a bit of a throwback. In that game, just like in the real-world most people like to play with the inverted wingers or inside forwards which is very similar. Some claim the compuetr game favours the inverted players, that it's easier to win that way but it's just a reflection of what a lot of coaches do now anyway. Real world coaches find it easier to win that way too.

Edit: Just 2 little errors in that vid I saw, where he talks about the inverted winger cutting in and crossing to the back post at around 6:45 his graphics show the flight of an outswinging cross where he talks about an inswinger which is what it would actually be. In the same segment when talking about switching play to the full back on the far flank, it's the same, the arc of the ball would be a bit different. Otherwise good stuff.
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How did a more traditional approach work for you in FM?
 
Physiocrat said:
How did a more traditional approach work for you in FM?
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Early days but quite well so far. Scoring a lot, conceding a lot too. Posted my formation and team instructionsup in the FM24 thread recently.

Only playing at a very low level too so it might not translate to the highest levels. I'm Merthyr Town in the 7th tier of England, currently sitting 2nd after 12 games or so in their division. Making it doubly hard on myself by only signing Welsh players as that's where they're based. I've no connection with Wales, just my strange idea of fun!

Always going to be difficult to not concede with no players in the defensive midfield strata, just the 2 central midfielders. I've gone a little bit Pulis-like with the approach rather than Sir Alex Ferguson. Got a big target man leading the line, a pressing forward playing slightly behind him in the spaces putting in a lot of work rate, passing as direct as possible, width as wide as possible which leaves me open to the counter but I want the wingers to do their thing! Concentrating play down the wings, very high tempo too. Even got no nonsense centre backs in there.

I'm pressing like mad with a high line without the ball, that seems to be the go to no matter what formation you set up with in FM rather than dropping deep and countering which would be true Pulis-ball.

I've seen tactics in a pseduo 4-4-2 with traditional wingers before that I know work very well. Quite often I downlaod tactics that other people have made but I'm a bit sick of that as it makes it too easy. It uses 2 defensive midfielders rather than central midfielders but they've kind of fudged it. It's with 2 Segundo Volantes which are the most attack-minded defensive midfielders there are so they are almost central midfielders. Like I said, staying away from all that now, but in case you wanted to take a look - here.

Best keep FM talk to the FM thread from now on or I'll get in trouble!
 
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Chipper said:
Early days but quite well so far. Scoring a lot, conceding a lot too. Posted my formation and team instructionsup in the FM24 thread recently.

Only playing at a very low level too so it might not translate to the highest levels. I'm Merthyr Town in the 7th tier of England, currently sitting 2nd after 12 games or so in their division. Making it doubly hard on myself by only signing Welsh players as that's where they're based. I've no connection with Wales, just my strange idea of fun!

Always going to be difficult to not concede with no players in the defensive midfield strata, just the 2 central midfielders. I've gone a little bit Pulis-like with the approach rather than Sir Alex Ferguson. Got a big target man leading the line, a pressing forward playing slightly behind him in the spaces putting in a lot of work rate, passing as direct as possible, width as wide as possible which leaves me open to the counter but I want the wingers to do their thing! Concentrating play down the wings, very high tempo too. Even got no nonsense centre backs in there.

I'm pressing like mad with a high line without the ball, that seems to be the go to no matter what formation you set up with in FM rather than dropping deep and countering which would be true Pulis-ball.

I've seen tactics in a pseduo 4-4-2 with traditional wingers before that I know work very well. Quite often I downlaod tactics that other people have made but I'm a bit sick of that as it makes it too easy. It uses 2 defensive midfielders rather than central midfielders but they've kind of fudged it. It's with 2 Segundo Volantes which are the most attack-minded defensive midfielders there are so they are almost central midfielders. Like I said, staying away from all that now, but in case you wanted to take a look - here.

Best keep FM talk to the FM thread from now on or I'll get in trouble!
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Cool.
 
Nani wasn't really that either. He would go both ways and had a wicked shot off both feet. Gave the ball away quite a bit too.
Most top wingers go either way but are almost equally dangerous doing so.
Vini Jr, Nico Williams, the lad for Leicester on the right looks capable of it.
Valencia was basically what you mean, completely right footed and would shift it to the right and get a yard with a burst of pace on the outside before crossing 99% of the time.
Adama Traore regularly does it but his end product afterwards is lacking.
 
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