Are Bebe and Macheda holding back others?

gooDevil

Worst scout ever
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I've read a few people make this comment, I hadn't really given it much thought until recently but I'm leaning towards agreeing. I can appreciate the idea of sticking with Macheda and Bebe, but I think it's fair to say neither has developed as hoped.

Of course we don't see training, but from what I've seen I'd personally rather see King or Henriquez leading the line for the reserves. With Macheda up front King is often played on the left, instead of someone like Cole, Brady or Januzaj, so it has a knock on effect down the team.

Would you guys prefer to give Macheda and Bebe more time or would you rather see their games go to other prospects?
 
I think both are dead wood. Never been convinced about Bebe, and Macheda has not really made much impact since 2009.
 
Bebe is an inspiration for any supporter. If he can play for United then anyone can make it.
 
devilish said:
Bebe is an inspiration for any supporter. If he can play for United then anyone can make it.
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I agree even if you were taking the piss.

Macheda unfortunately for me never had the Right attitude to develop properly. Lord Ferg knows best though.
 
I've often thought we have too much deadwood especially at reserve level. The likes of Bebe, Macheda and some others are never going to make it. Yet their seniority usually gets them games at reserve level and makes them first pick if SAF wants to rotate in the CC.

As the OP says I'd much rather that some of the other kids get a chance especially in the CC preferably in their natural position.

None of this playing players in odd formations in cup games just because they "need a game" anymore.
 
Macheda shows flashes but has never had a chance to play much in the first team due to a wealth of options. Bebe is also not bad but out of his depth technically and mentally. A move to a smaller Prem club would suit him
 
gooDevil said:
I've read a few people make this comment, I hadn't really given it much thought until recently but I'm leaning towards agreeing. I can appreciate the idea of sticking with Macheda and Bebe, but I think it's fair to say neither has developed as hoped.

Of course we don't see training, but from what I've seen I'd personally rather see King or Henriquez leading the line for the reserves. With Macheda up front King is often played on the left, instead of someone like Cole, Brady or Januzaj, so it has a knock on effect down the team.

Would you guys prefer to give Macheda and Bebe more time or would you rather see their games go to other prospects?
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Like we have any say in the matter.

I'm for letting Fergie decide based on what he cumulatively sees in training, which is obviously information we don't have access to.
 
What do you want them to do? They can only try their best. The correct question should be is Fergie holding back the development of other players by not loaning or selling Bebe and Macheda? I imagine both will be moved on in some capacity either in Jan or the summer.
 
I think Macheda plays up front because the staff thinks he's better there than anyone else. It's also the reason why he's been given a chance in the first team and the others haven't gotten that.
 
I didn't give much of a shit about the result against Chelsea in the COC, the only thing about that whole game that made me mad was Macheda got in instead of Lingard. I just don't see the point at all, I'm extremely confident in my opinion that Macheda won't ever make it here.

And yes, I'd rather see younger players given a chance for the U21s than Macheda and Bebe.
 
Definitely don't see the point of Bebe, still can't understand the transfer and we're never gonna recoup anywhere near what we spent on him given we barely got anything for Gibson who's a much, much better player. Would rather see others play over him.

With Macheda I'm still not sure, sometimes he looks like he could be alright, and Fergie has continually touted him as the best finisher at the club. The problem is that we've not really seen how he could do playing in the first team. Usually when he comes in to the first team it's in odd teams where we're trying to give everyone games and so it's very disjointed. My instinct tells me he won't make it, we've got a lot of strikers here already and he doesn't look like he could adapt well to a wider area. Ideally he'd need a loan at a club who actually want to play him and is at a decent level, problem is it's been so long since he's done anything I doubt any decent teams would be interested.
 
Don't think they're holding back other players too much as there's only so much you gain by playing in the reserves, and the others who would be playing instead aren't exactly stagnating or running out of time.

It's more the case that there's little point for their own sake in either still being there. They both need to be playing first team football somewhere, not pissing around in United's reserves. In Macheda's case he'd learnt all he could at reserve level four years ago.
 
I feel a bit sorry for Macheda. His two loan deals went pear shaped and held back his development. There was something there in 2009 and Fergie is giving him the chance to rediscover it.

I've not seen enough of Bebe to really judge him. He seems powerful with a ferocious shot, he also scored quite a bit in pre-season. Maybe he was blooded in the first team too early?
 
Bebe's just too raw and erratic for me. Every now and then he'll do something that you simply have to be good at football to be able to pull off...but then he'll spend the rest of the game hoofting crosses out of the stadium on the far side of the pitch, controlling the bal further away from himself than where the pass to him was from in the first place, or just generally looking like a cross between Emile Heskey and a rampaging tumble dryer full of wasps.

Macheda I don't know what to think of. Reserve football is pointless for him. He needs a challenge, but he needs a team who'll trust him enough to play him more than twice a season. It's sort of like he missed the boat with those two unlucky loan spells.
 
As with others, yes. We're not helping anyone - the club, the youngsters, Bebe and Macheda themselves - by keeping them here.
 
noodlehair said:
Don't think they're holding back other players too much as there's only so much you gain by playing in the reserves, and the others who would be playing instead aren't exactly stagnating or running out of time.

It's more the case that there's little point for their own sake in either still being there. They both need to be playing first team football somewhere, not pissing around in United's reserves. In Macheda's case he'd learnt all he could at reserve level four years ago.
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A good point my friend, it's confusing as to why both aren't playing full time somewhere.

In Bebe's case I can see an argument for giving him some time in the reserves, getting him used to playing 'the United way', putting an imprint of our playing style on them before he goes out. But Macheda surely doesn't need any more of that sort of thing.
 
Its pretty clear to see with Bebe that it was some really strange deal that we paid 7 million for a player who has less technical ability than even your average sunday league player (may or may not be an exaggeration)
Only thing he has basically is a strong shot :lol:

Macheda I never felt had it in him to be good enough for us. Too slow, not good enough control, or touch, or even goalscoring instinct. Basically the only reason he is still at the club (from what I've seen when he's played) is because of his goal against Villa all those years ago. He's 21 now and has shown basically no improvement.

So in summary, yeah, theyre both dead wood and are just taking up space from our more promising youngsters.
 
I think Macheda is rightly being given as much time as we can afford him. We're talking about a player who at what 17 was able to have a significant impact on us winning a league title. Our youngest ever goalscorer and clearly a player Sir Alex has always believed a lot in. Things havent gone as hoped but the strikers position is probably the main area we dont really need someone scoring 30 goals in the reserves and wondering why he's not getting first team football. We have a wealth of striking options.
 
bosnian_red said:
Its pretty clear to see with Bebe that it was some really strange deal that we paid 7 million for a player who has less technical ability than even your average sunday league player (may or may not be an exaggeration)
Only thing he has basically is a strong shot :lol:
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He can cross the ball really well. see wolves game
 
Macheda regulary looks good in our preseason games, but those preseason games are rare opportunities he can get in first team. It's obvious he will never fullfil his potential playing for the reserves, but it's still his only chance to impress scouts from some other teams that would take him loan.
 
Ekeke said:
I think Macheda is rightly being given as much time as we can afford him. We're talking about a player who at what 17 was able to have a significant impact on us winning a league title. Our youngest ever goalscorer and clearly a player Sir Alex has always believed a lot in. Things havent gone as hoped but the strikers position is probably the main area we dont really need someone scoring 30 goals in the reserves and wondering why he's not getting first team football. We have a wealth of striking options.
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Wasn't.
 
I think they are actually helping the youngsters to develop in good time. I don't think they are ready to be squad players yet. Let them be trained outside the reserves category for now. Putting them into the mix too early is a danger to their development. It's not like we are desperate for them to progress quickly. Welbeck and Chicharito can't even get enough games. Having said that, it'll be good for them if they (Macheda and Bebe) to go on loan at a decent Premier League or championship team.
 
noodlehair said:
Bebe's just too raw and erratic for me. Every now and then he'll do something that you simply have to be good at football to be able to pull off...but then he'll spend the rest of the game hoofting crosses out of the stadium on the far side of the pitch, controlling the bal further away from himself than where the pass to him was from in the first place, or just generally looking like a cross between Emile Heskey and a rampaging tumble dryer full of wasps.
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:lol:
 
As i have said on the cafe before, Macheda needs a loan to the championship club. A step back with prove if he has the ability to score goals at a good level.

He has not developed and won't develop by going to another PL club or any other top league.
 
The truth is that we stock pile talent at reserve and youth levels. It is probably not right in terms of football ethics, especially as we import a lot of this talent from abroad, as with the subjects mentioned in the OP.

It is hard enough to get into the United team as it is, but for the homegrown lads who train with us from a very young age, it must be difficult to see foreign youngsters getting brought in, getting paid more money and then getting in front of them in their development as youth and reserve levels.

I think that we will see a lot more youngsters walking away from the club, a la Pogba and Fryers. I expect Josh King to leave at the end of the season and why wouldn't he? He has some interesting options, if reports are to be believed, he will earn more money and he rightly knows that he has a whole lot of talent in his way of first team football here.
 
I don't know if they are holding anyone back but I can safely say that they are not going to have a career at United. Hopefully, they are moved somewhere in January and we can get some money out of their sales. Though I doubt we would get anything for Bebe.
 
I still think Macheda will create a very good top flight career for himself. He's a good finisher. The problem is there's not much else he brings other than goals and forwards like that are a dying breed.

I'd still rather we sorted him out with a good loan deal in January than looking to offload him. He just needs games.
 
We didn't actually pay 7 million for Bebe did we? I recall that about half of that was performance based...which we are in no real danger of ever having to cough up :lol:
 
#Carl said:
I still think Macheda will create a very good top flight career for himself. He's a good finisher. The problem is there's not much else he brings other than goals and forwards like that are a dying breed.

I'd still rather we sorted him out with a good loan deal in January than looking to offload him. He just needs games.
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We've had forwards like that before and have worked to develop their all-round game. I agree he needs games, but maybe it won't all click until a few years down the line?
 
Ekeke said:
I think Macheda is rightly being given as much time as we can afford him. We're talking about a player who at what 17 was able to have a significant impact on us winning a league title. Our youngest ever goalscorer and clearly a player Sir Alex has always believed a lot in. Things havent gone as hoped but the strikers position is probably the main area we dont really need someone scoring 30 goals in the reserves and wondering why he's not getting first team football. We have a wealth of striking options.
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I think you have to be careful with this though. It's not as if he came in and had a stunning half season or anything. He scored two very timely goals, one of which was very good. That is pretty much the sum of everything impressive he's done for us. I'm sure there are some very shit players who have done the same.
 
Both have been unlucky with loan spells. Didn't Bebe go to Besitkas and break his leg?

Not really fussed about whether they get playing time in the reserves, but yeah I don't see them having a future here.
 
Rowem said:
Both have been unlucky with loan spells. Didn't Bebe go to Besitkas and break his leg?
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Yes, and then very shortly after his return, he was suspended for 'disorderly conduct and indisciplined behaviour'. So not exactly 'unlucky'.
 
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