At this stage you just have to laugh at what a bad signing he’s been.
Wing back is the final roll of the dice for him here
Wing back is the final roll of the dice for him here
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 10
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 0
If Amorim plays him there is no hope.
‘I fear the man that’s practiced two moves three hundred times each, four more moves a fifty times each, and ten moves twenty times each’ Master Kong
That sliding tap in was vs Forest with his left foot:
ah, maybe its not this one then. Im sure he got a scrappy one like this but could be wrong
As a sliding right footed Antony tap-in connoisseur myself, maybe you're thinking of Everton at home in the cup?
Cheers
I wouldn't say he's incapable of anything other than tap-ins with his weaker foot, as I remember him having the confidence to put in a decent right-footed cross vs Liverpool almost immediately after he scored that goal. It likely comes down to stubbornness/lack of confidence. Hopefully Amorim can coach him into being a slightly less predictable footballer.
No wonder Klopp tried to replace Salah with Antony in 2022 summer.There's the beauty
Google it if you don’t believe it
He hasnt really been a bad signing, people who say this are only looking at the fee we paid which was much higher than it should have been but isnt his fault.
Without Antony we wouldnt have won the FA Cup last season
What are examples of bad signings to you?
5 goals and 3 assists in the league in two seasons - this isn’t a good signing in any way shape or form.
That’s before you get to the ludicrous fee.
Frankly, he has great potential to be a wing back. He is hard working, fast and can defend. He needs to improve on attacking side of the game but he is good enough in term of attacking abilities as a wing back. Hope Amorim can transformed him. Otherwise, 80M down the drain.
Could well be bollocks
We always hear about Liverpool being interested in Mount, or City wanting Maguire before we signed him but funnily enough they never made firm moves for either. Its possible they were interested but would they have paid anything like the fees we paid
Is this a joke?
Only if a left wing back. You simply can’t play a RWB with a zero right foot ability, as RWB should be making passes and crosses into the box often
I’m scared to death of the thought of him as a wing back. With how it’s gone for him here, you just know he’s going to give away a crucial penalty while trying to defend in the box.
It's unlikely to happen because Dalot or Mazraoui will play there before he gets a chance to. Shaw is back to fitness and Malacia is also back in training.
If he's involved in this role against Ipswich I think it will only be because he's had more days training than the players returning from the international break
Ah if he hasn't been a bad signing, there has never been a bad signing ever
I don't see it with Antony under Amorim, not because he lacks technical and physical capacity for performing the wing-back role, but because I haven't seen enough consistency of effort and temperament to succeed. I hope he can prove me wrong and he can work well under new management, be humble, be coachable, but given what we've seen from Antony since his arrival under a manager that had trust in him, I'm not holding my breath.
I've seen effort for sure, it's one of the few things I like about Antony. The guy can graft. Whether he's too arrogant to accept playing wingback and having fulltime defensive responsibilities is another question. It's the only way to salvage his United career.
That doesnt make it any less of a bad signing. Performance vs expectations vs fee is what defines a good or bad signing. Should we ignore the fee since "its not his fault"?
I agree he could be an ok signing if we paid 15M, but we didnt pay that - We paid 5 times that amount.
Yes we absolutely should ignore the fee as the player himself didnt set the fee.
Its funny that fans will say.. oh he should be judged on the money paid... so what should Mbappe not be judged highly?
The player should be judged on what you expect them to bring to the team. A goal scorer judged on goals...
For example.. Declan Rice, how do you judge a £105m CM? Becuase he plays every game, he is worth the money? He hasn't really improved Arsenal.
Could he play as a ten next to Bruno or Mount? His close control and acceleration are good, but he struggles on the wing. More central could provide him to use a different skill set?
He’s been bad because he’s played bad. On top of that, he’s been much too expensive, which makes him a poor investment and a cause not to sign better players in the same position.
It also comes to team performance too, whilst Antony has been poor, none of our wingers or attackers have been good for a good 18 months.
Add to that the pressure he is under, people are expecting him to do things that no one in the team can do.
Which player over the last 10 years have have looked good / worth it after 2/3 years.
One of our best signings in that time, Bruno, is also been questioned.
Regardless of the fee, he would be questioned by the fans purely because the team is so bad.
I'm with you on this. Also, while I understand, and to an extent agree with, the criticisms of Antony in a footballing sense, what I don't understand is the apparent hatred he attracts, even from some of our own fans. Many seem to dislike the man himself, which is honestly weird, given none of us know him on that level.
Edited to add that I'm at best slightly optimistic he can turn it around here; I haven't entirely given up on him yet. And what a bonus it would be if he does manage to.
Taking a cue out of all the overt optimism on the Rashford and Shaw threads where we are talking of "unlocking the true potential" of Rashy as a #9 and Shaw as a always fit LCB under Amorim, I would say maybe Antony will "unlock" shooting with both feet because Amorim is in.
Goals and assists, here they come!!!
Goals and assists, here they come!!!
I’m ignoring the fee and changing it to a free transfer and I’ll say it hasn’t worked out.
Why hasnt it? He litterally played a big part in 2 domestic cup wins while playing in a crap side
There's bad signings and bad players. Sometimes one affects the other, as many players succumbed under the pressure of their price tags. Some think they are king of the world after being super expensive or after getting a huge signing fee or salary, etc. For some people money is too abstract a concept to really affect them directly, but it does get harder as social beings to ignore people online (or to a lesser degree in the papers for players in the past) talking about it all the time, or just opening some app you're addicted to on your phone because of that gosh darn dopamine hit and seeing all those comments, memes, DMs, you name it. Regular people get more burnout from all those extra considerations and performativities, I can imagine it being too much for a celebrity, especially if people judge your capabilities at least once a week, but probably continue their uncalled for assessments until the next game. Then you take your little kid to Disneyland on your few days off and you're an absolute disgrace of a person.
Antony has underperformed. Definitely. I don't think he's up to the task, but am honestly surprised by how much worse he got. At Ajax his first season wasn't great, either, and I didn't understand why ETH picked him over Neres. But his second season he wasn't a world beater, but he was really reliable as a main outlet on the right wing. For counters, dribbles, overall play and eventually better productivity directly visible on paper, he offered a lot. Not a 100M euros amount of a lot based on other players that went for that price, but on the other hand, Ajax was really good that season and Antony was a big reason they were. At least based on the eye tests and what we could see in the following season under a lesser-skilled (or less-fitting) manager. Ajax+Antony and Ajax without was really a world of difference. Perhaps not as much as Kudus' departure last year, but Kudus was also their last gamechanger to go, basically.
It's really funny to me how I saw Neres as the one needing a specific role or team to really shine, with Antony being more of a "basic" winger in the sense of being more applicable in many types of setups and being good in the things you expect a winger to be good at, and how you expect them to be good at those things. Now, while I do miss the image I had of Neres as a unique type of something between false winger/playmaker/shadow striker, his 2019 Champions League run and later his useful additions to Benfica and Napoli do show him as what I expected Antony to be. Not outstanding, but a very good, solid and simply reliable winger. Starting him will give you a good player there who won't stop your progress. He will not be the catalyst of your team's rise to fame, either.
I really thought Antony would be just that. Not worth 100M, if you consider that starpower-money, at least. I don't think he's a bad player, at all, even if I did think he was overrated for much of the first half+ of his Ajax-tenure. I don't know if it's the pressure or the troubles at home - and all the media storm and court cases that came with that, and/or the truth of it if he's hiding anything about it - which all would make plenty sense by way of such thing's the mental affect on someone, especially when you have to perform at high pace of response, so any clutter slowing you or causing reconsiderations down just makes you a bad player. Some players are really fixated on the play, or distracted so much by it that you don't notice this clutter (many players have faced many accusations, court cases, mediastorms, etc). So whether independent from all the external factors he's a bad player, at least compared to the necessary level at this club? That he's really objectively, factually and technically bad? I can't say.
His signing was definitely a bad signing. But he is not his signing. He is not his salary. If he gets paid "too much", that means he or his agent did an amazing job. We don't live in a meritocratic world, but a capitalist one where the art of the deal gets you in the white house. If someone's a bad signing, the one who signed the contract as the paying is the bad signing. You shouldn't pay 100 million to transfer someone's employee contract and playing rights to your club if they will not give a great chance to pay that back, or even if it's a low chance they will increase your investment in at least some way. United was looking for a winger, Antony showed that he could be a solid pick to get for that position. No player is a certainty, but based on his play and the amount of time he showed his skills and such, including in the Champions League against opponents good enough to show it wasn't just Eredivisie-good. Signing him made a lot of sense, unless you want to avoid getting players the manager already knows well. But the consideration to bring some familiarity in with the new coach to give him a head start makes sense, too. But they needed a plan B, because placing all your bets on one player is one thing, but waiting until the very end? And then budge for the 100M? Horrible business. I get it was hard to make a plan B for someone like Frenkie, but you can find other right wingers, you already had Sancho, you could assess the squad to think of another gameplan, to think of a player to move to the right wing and then look to find a player at the 10 or the left wing. Bruno already played RW by then for Portugal, no? Maybe ETH vetoed anyone else than Bruno, but honestly I think the board didn't check for options outside of asking him and hoping he could just copy-paste his Ajax formula. Letting your kid check pesdb would have been more scouting and "technical directing" - it would have led to at least less bad of a signing.
Because this was really a bad signing. The player could have redeemed bad signing work by the signers, but if you watched his games you knew you didn't buy worldbeater. He could have been an excellent winger who wins several games for you, but you didn't find the next Cristiano or Rooney. Pogba at Juventus made sense at the time, even if the free departure hurt the egoes of many. But he looked like he could be a world beater. That's why it took years for people to stop saying "if you add ________ that could unlock him" and such? Maybe he will do better as a wingback, but no one says that stuff about players like Antony. Madrid tries to unlock Mbappe. Atleti/Barcelone/Chelsea tried to unlock Felix. I can see Amad being someone you want to unlock at United, or Mainoo. If he continued to build his reputation in Italy maybe Zirkzee even. But not Antony.
He was not a bad player. Now he is. But players' deliveries have always gone up and down, players can always lose their ways to unlock themselves or just not be as good as you hoped them to be. Basically you can only call them a bad employee if they did not try. If they stopped trying. If they deliberately stand in the way of the team. I don't know what the truth is about his personal life situation, but he did not do a bad job, he just didn't deliver. Maybe the one who signed the deal for United was too stressed and naive to think straight, and delivered an even worse end result. But it's not Antony's fault that Ajax pushed up the price, especially after the late return of United. It's not his fault that
Bad signing.
Antony has underperformed. Definitely. I don't think he's up to the task, but am honestly surprised by how much worse he got. At Ajax his first season wasn't great, either, and I didn't understand why ETH picked him over Neres. But his second season he wasn't a world beater, but he was really reliable as a main outlet on the right wing. For counters, dribbles, overall play and eventually better productivity directly visible on paper, he offered a lot. Not a 100M euros amount of a lot based on other players that went for that price, but on the other hand, Ajax was really good that season and Antony was a big reason they were. At least based on the eye tests and what we could see in the following season under a lesser-skilled (or less-fitting) manager. Ajax+Antony and Ajax without was really a world of difference. Perhaps not as much as Kudus' departure last year, but Kudus was also their last gamechanger to go, basically.
It's really funny to me how I saw Neres as the one needing a specific role or team to really shine, with Antony being more of a "basic" winger in the sense of being more applicable in many types of setups and being good in the things you expect a winger to be good at, and how you expect them to be good at those things. Now, while I do miss the image I had of Neres as a unique type of something between false winger/playmaker/shadow striker, his 2019 Champions League run and later his useful additions to Benfica and Napoli do show him as what I expected Antony to be. Not outstanding, but a very good, solid and simply reliable winger. Starting him will give you a good player there who won't stop your progress. He will not be the catalyst of your team's rise to fame, either.
I really thought Antony would be just that. Not worth 100M, if you consider that starpower-money, at least. I don't think he's a bad player, at all, even if I did think he was overrated for much of the first half+ of his Ajax-tenure. I don't know if it's the pressure or the troubles at home - and all the media storm and court cases that came with that, and/or the truth of it if he's hiding anything about it - which all would make plenty sense by way of such thing's the mental affect on someone, especially when you have to perform at high pace of response, so any clutter slowing you or causing reconsiderations down just makes you a bad player. Some players are really fixated on the play, or distracted so much by it that you don't notice this clutter (many players have faced many accusations, court cases, mediastorms, etc). So whether independent from all the external factors he's a bad player, at least compared to the necessary level at this club? That he's really objectively, factually and technically bad? I can't say.
His signing was definitely a bad signing. But he is not his signing. He is not his salary. If he gets paid "too much", that means he or his agent did an amazing job. We don't live in a meritocratic world, but a capitalist one where the art of the deal gets you in the white house. If someone's a bad signing, the one who signed the contract as the paying is the bad signing. You shouldn't pay 100 million to transfer someone's employee contract and playing rights to your club if they will not give a great chance to pay that back, or even if it's a low chance they will increase your investment in at least some way. United was looking for a winger, Antony showed that he could be a solid pick to get for that position. No player is a certainty, but based on his play and the amount of time he showed his skills and such, including in the Champions League against opponents good enough to show it wasn't just Eredivisie-good. Signing him made a lot of sense, unless you want to avoid getting players the manager already knows well. But the consideration to bring some familiarity in with the new coach to give him a head start makes sense, too. But they needed a plan B, because placing all your bets on one player is one thing, but waiting until the very end? And then budge for the 100M? Horrible business. I get it was hard to make a plan B for someone like Frenkie, but you can find other right wingers, you already had Sancho, you could assess the squad to think of another gameplan, to think of a player to move to the right wing and then look to find a player at the 10 or the left wing. Bruno already played RW by then for Portugal, no? Maybe ETH vetoed anyone else than Bruno, but honestly I think the board didn't check for options outside of asking him and hoping he could just copy-paste his Ajax formula. Letting your kid check pesdb would have been more scouting and "technical directing" - it would have led to at least less bad of a signing.
Because this was really a bad signing. The player could have redeemed bad signing work by the signers, but if you watched his games you knew you didn't buy worldbeater. He could have been an excellent winger who wins several games for you, but you didn't find the next Cristiano or Rooney. Pogba at Juventus made sense at the time, even if the free departure hurt the egoes of many. But he looked like he could be a world beater. That's why it took years for people to stop saying "if you add ________ that could unlock him" and such? Maybe he will do better as a wingback, but no one says that stuff about players like Antony. Madrid tries to unlock Mbappe. Atleti/Barcelone/Chelsea tried to unlock Felix. I can see Amad being someone you want to unlock at United, or Mainoo. If he continued to build his reputation in Italy maybe Zirkzee even. But not Antony.
He was not a bad player. Now he is. But players' deliveries have always gone up and down, players can always lose their ways to unlock themselves or just not be as good as you hoped them to be. Basically you can only call them a bad employee if they did not try. If they stopped trying. If they deliberately stand in the way of the team. I don't know what the truth is about his personal life situation, but he did not do a bad job, he just didn't deliver. Maybe the one who signed the deal for United was too stressed and naive to think straight, and delivered an even worse end result. But it's not Antony's fault that Ajax pushed up the price, especially after the late return of United. It's not his fault that
Bad signing.
Its a multiple issues imo. He was bought for alot of money and fans didn't know what kind of winger he is. Add to that, he was brought in by Ten Hag and alot of fans dislike him also, so more heat on his signings.
For me, if the manager wants you, you stay if not, we need to start moving players on.
The hatred and outrage concerning Antony I fail to understand. He's done little or nothing to warrant such comments from supporters.
He has done very little to consider him a success. His football has been a failure overall. He's had some decent moments, but honestly, there are so many RWs I would have over him in the PL alone.
He is not responsible for the price, but as a player for the club, the price is a part of it. Paying 20 m for him means that we could have spent another 50-60 on other players. Spending 80m on him meant that he was supposed to be a great player, but he is average at the very best. He may turn it around, and he may work as a wingback, and he may even work as a right sided 10 in Amorin's system. I'm not going to give up on him just yet, but if he doesn't start producing more this season, he should be sold next summer.
Quoting a couple of decent moments in the cups is like saying Origi was a great player for Liverpool. He never was, and he isn't there anymore.
Let me ask you something?
What does a 80m player need to do for you to say he is a success? Isn't it all relative to team success?
Apart from us hating on City, no one is calling Grealish a flop... because he plays for City, yet he has done less for City than Antony has done for United.
Even id we spent another 50-60m on players, what Manutd signings have been a success anyway?
Grealish is a bit of a flop, surely, and he has been discussed as such because of his appearances for Villa and his price tag. The discussion on is he a flop or not is still out there - a quick google searh. Still, he performs much better than Antony has ever done for United. Grealish has actually done quite well in their treble winning season. Even some silly people put Grealish ahead of Giggs in the combined 99 and 23 XIs - nobody would imagine doing that to Antony.
An 80m player needs to be one of the best in his position in the league at the very least. He's not close to that. He needs to produce more goals and assists - he has terrible stats. He doesn't create much either, and nor is he entertaining to watch. There is very little there that speaks a quality signing.
A player may perform well relative to team success. Antony has been poor relative to a poor team; he has stood out as a poor player in a poor team with very few highlights that suggest he is anything above average, or has enough to elevate his game to a higher level.
Yep, but he isn’t talked about same as Antony.. he was 100m signing. So from one instance you say Grealish done quite well but expect Antony to be one of the best in his position, was Grealish one of the best in his position?
Last season, he barely played and the same this season. I mean none of our wingers or forwards in the last 18 months have been anything above average though, so its not just him.. its others in the squad too.He hasn’t stood out more than Rashford, Garnacho, Hojlund.
I would say Hojlund has been a bigger flop so far than Antony. He was signed and has always got to be first choice ST and can barely get a chance in a game. Is completely anonymous and has a poor first touch.
I think Grealish is a flop. He has still done much better than Antony, so not quite sure what your argument is there? Grealish isn't and hasn't been one of the best LWs in the league after he came to City, which due to his price tag and expectations that come with it makes him a flop. Doku isn't a flop because he cost much less.
Højlund scored 16 goals and 2 assists in total last season. Antony has 5 goals and 3 assists over three seasons. His debut season yielded 4 goals and 2 assists. He has been a massive flop. He has a better first touch than Højlund, but other than that, it isn't even close. That being said, Højlund needs to improve massively. It was a huge gamble paying that much money on an unproven striker to lead the line, and so far it hasn't paid off. I'm not there yet calling him a flop, but he is closing in, so he needs to improve. Antony has had three seasons now. His first started OK, then went terrible, and second season was even worse. He had ample opportunity to turn it around as ETH gave him too many chances, but he failed to improve.
Rashford has been on a steady decline, but he still has moments, but many claim he needs to be sold. His 30 goal season is still far beyond anything Antony has produced for us. Garnacho is still very raw, but he also produces much more than Antony every season, on top of being a much more exciting player that also causes defenders more issues. Do you honestly think Antony is at Garnacho's level in terms of output or general level? He may have better close control and acceleration on the first five yards, but that's about it.
An 80m attacking player needs to have a healty output - so far, Antony just doesn't.
I think I would ask back - how do you see him as a player in a Manchester United squad? Let alone a starting XI that should be fighting for a top four then league titles?