All Time Test Draft SF - Crappy vs 2mufc0 | 2mufc0 wins 10-5

Who will win a 3 match series between the two?

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

prath92

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
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India
Welcome to the second game of the Semi Final of the Test Cricket Draft game between @crappycraperson and @2mufc0 . These teams will be involved in 3 game series in

1. A flat track
2. A green track aiding swing
3. A slow track aiding spin

Teams

Team Crappy

Pace/Seam friendly wicket--------------Spin Friendly wicket--------------Batting friendly wicket

1. Gordon Greenidge---------------------Gordon Greenidge-----------------Gordon Greenidge
2. Alec Stewart (wk)----------------------Alec Stewart (wk)-----------------Alec Stewart (wk)
3. Kumara Sangakkara-------------------Kumara Sangakkara---------------Kumara Sangakkara
4. Brian Lara------------------------------Brian Lara--------------------------Brian Lara
5. Michael Clarke (c)----------------------Michael Clarke (c)-----------------Michael Clarke (c)
6. Dean Jones-----------------------------Dean Jones-------------------------Ian Botham
7. Ian Botham-----------------------------Ian Botham------------------------Chris Cairns
8. Chris Cairns----------------------------Shaun Pollock----------------------Shaun Pollock
9. Shaun Pollock--------------------------Anil Kumble------------------------Anil Kumble
10. Michael Holding----------------------Michael Holding---------------------Michael Holding
11. Bob Willis-----------------------------Bishan Singh Bedi------------------Bob Willis

Team 2mufc0

1. Justin Langer
2. Marcus Trescothick
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Javed Miandad
5. Damien Martyn
6. Adam Gilchrist (w/k)
7. Imran Khan (all rounder)
8. Ravichandran Ashwin (bowling allrounder)
9. Malcolm Marshall (bowling allrounder)
10. Allan Donald
11. Glenn McGrath
 
Team Crappy

Line ups for OP

Pace/Seam friendly wicket--------------Spin Friendly wicket--------------Batting friendly wicket

1. Gordon Greenidge---------------------Gordon Greenidge-----------------Gordon Greenidge
2. Alec Stewart (wk)----------------------Alec Stewart (wk)-----------------Alec Stewart (wk)
3. Kumara Sangakkara-------------------Kumara Sangakkara---------------Kumara Sangakkara
4. Brian Lara------------------------------Brian Lara--------------------------Brian Lara
5. Michael Clarke (c)----------------------Michael Clarke (c)-----------------Michael Clarke (c)
6. Dean Jones-----------------------------Dean Jones-------------------------Ian Botham
7. Ian Botham-----------------------------Ian Botham------------------------Chris Cairns
8. Chris Cairns----------------------------Shaun Pollock----------------------Shaun Pollock
9. Shaun Pollock--------------------------Anil Kumble------------------------Anil Kumble
10. Michael Holding----------------------Michael Holding---------------------Michael Holding
11. Bob Willis-----------------------------Bishan Singh Bedi------------------Bob Willis


Team Crappy

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All the players in my line up need no "bigging" up so I will go straight into strategy behind the different line ups.

Pace friendly wicket

- Excellent pace attack with 5 seamers - Holding, Pollock, Willis, Botham and Cairns. Clarke as part time spinner if required. Enough variation and ferocity in the attack to bowl over a line up.
- Opposition's pace quartet that I expect is better. But I think my batting line up can even up that difference. He will be reliant on Pointing to hold fort for him IMO. In addition, I bat very very deep. Even if his pacers do damage early on, Botham at 7 is capable of a big innings while Cairns, Pollock can provide excellent support. Holding is no mug with bat either.

Spin Friendly wicket

- Go in with two of India's best spinners - Kumble and Bedi. Supplemented by Clarke as part time spinner and Holding, Pollock and Botham as pace attack.
- This is one is the clearest no contest IMO. He only has Ashwin to rely on and Lara and Sanga in my middler order are excellent players of spin while best batsman in his line up - Pointing has always been below par in such conditions. Same is true for an extent for Gilchrist.
- Again the batting line up goes deep, Kumble is no mug with the bat even if he replaces Cairns here

Batting friendly wicket

- Dropping Jones to further beef up the bowling attack. Even with him not in the team lower order is still super strong with - Botham, Cairns, Pollock, Kumble and Holding.
- Batting wise , the front 5 is as solid as they come - Greenidge is second only to Gavaskar as a test opener. Lara is the best match winner in test cricket, Sanga one of the best modern batsmen with absurd stats and Clarke in his prime was a top match winner for Oz.
 
Team 2mufc0

Team and roles:

1. Justin Langer
2. Marcus Trescothick
3. Ricky Ponting
4. Javed Miandad
5. Damien Martyn
6. Adam Gilchrist (w/k)
7. Imran Khan (all rounder)
8. Ravichandran Ashwin (bowling allrounder)
9. Malcolm Marshall (bowling allrounder)
10. Allan Donald
11. Glenn McGrath

Batting

  • Complimentary opening partnership one aggressive and one more defensive a perfect combination
  • Strong top/middle order, all no. 3-5 GOAT category
  • I have bolstered my middle order by bringing in Ricky Ponting
  • The best w/k batsman of all time in Adam Gilchrist, able to win matches by himself.
  • Resilient and powerful lower order with Gilchrist/Imran and the dogged Ashwin.
  • Test centurions up to no.8
  • Also Malcolm Marshall was no mug with the bat either and is able to contribute, so my team bats very deep.
Bowling

  • The GOAT test fast bowler McGrath, made all the top batsmen his bunnies partnered with another GOAT Donald. Both complimentary with different styles and guarantee early wickets.
  • Out goes Morkel and in comes Malcolm Marshall rated by many experts as the best fast bowler of all time. He was a different type of bowler than the other pacers so will bring some variation to the attack.
  • Imran Khan comes in for Watson, a massive massive upgrade. With these 4 pacers it's only a matter of time before they take a wicket.
  • All 4 of these bowlers are GOAT's and proven in all conditions, it's hard to see any batting lineup trying to contain them. All average less than 22.
  • Supported by spin wicket taking machine Ravi Ashwin, has taken 300 wickets in no time breaking many records on the way. With an avg of 25 it really is incredible esp in the era he is playing in where every man and his dog averages 50.
 
So looks like this will be a no contest. I knew his pace attack would win over the day. I still think his batting is weak though.
 
crappycraperson said:
So looks like this will be a no contest. I knew his pace attack would win over the day. I still think his batting is weak though.
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I think your team is more balanced imo but will see if others think the same way.
 
I don't see how my batting is weak? The so called 'weakest' batsmen in the lineup are probably Trescothick and Martyn, but even these guys were fantastic players and no worse than Stewart or Jones. My pace attack is far superior, I also have the best all rounder and a much better keeper.
 
harshad said:
What is Deano's record at no6 like? Always thought he was more a middle order batsman i.e. playing at no 3,4,5 and not a no. 6?
Click to expand...

In all star sides you can't always play your desired position. Fussing up about the same seems like nitpicking. Why exactly would Jones struggle at 6 if he could bat higher up? He proved himself against spin in Chennai test itself. In India, itself you had example of someone like Dravid playing well at 6 despite his favored position being 3 and same with Laxman with switching between 3 and 5 many times.

From mufc's team itself, Imran Khan's respective averages at 6 and 7 position is 61 and 34. Martyn averages 30 at 5. Some positional differences can make a diff, for example there is a difference between batting 3 and 4.

I think his batting is suspect because even if his bowling attack hogs all the limelight, Trescothik is walking wicket against attack of Holding, Pollock, Willis and Botham. Miandad was a great bastmen but his record against the best bowling attack of his team is decidedly poor - he averages below 30 against Windies. Langer is not as good as 2mufc believes him to be, neither is Martyn. His batting IMO will come down to Pointing and Gilchrist.

Also given the match up is on different surfaces, I would at least expect voters to acknowledge that Kumble and Bedi (both superior to Ashwin) are much more likely to win the match on spinning wicket for me. So then it is down to the other 2 surfaces.
 
harshad said:
What is Deano's record at no6 like? Always thought he was more a middle order batsman i.e. playing at no 3,4,5 and not a no. 6?
Click to expand...

Why would a batsman who is good at five fail at six? Will the psychological pressure of coming one position down be that much?

crappycraperson said:
In all star sides you can't always play your desired position. Fussing up about the same seems like nitpicking. Why exactly would Jones struggle at 6 if he could bat higher up? He proved himself against spin in Chennai test itself. In India, itself you had example of someone like Dravid playing well at 6 despite his favored position being 3 and same with Laxman with switching between 3 and 5 many times.

From mufc's team itself, Imran Khan's respective averages at 6 and 7 position is 61 and 34. Martyn averages 30 at 5. Some positional differences can make a diff, for example there is a difference between batting 3 and 4.

I think his batting is suspect because even if his bowling attack hogs all the limelight, Trescothik is walking wicket against attack of Holding, Pollock, Willis and Botham. Miandad was a great bastmen but his record against the best bowling attack of his team is decidedly poor - he averages below 30 against Windies. Langer is not as good as 2mufc believes him to be, neither is Martyn. His batting IMO will come down to Pointing and Gilchrist.

Also given the match up is on different surfaces, I would at least expect voters to acknowledge that Kumble and Bedi (both superior to Ashwin) are much more likely to win the match on spinning wicket for me. So then it is down to the other 2 surfaces.
Click to expand...

I tried the same argument against a weaker attack, voters just see the names and not the conditions.
 
MJJ said:
Why would a batsman who is good at five fail at six? Will the psychological pressure of coming one position down be that much?



I tried the same argument against a weaker attack, voters just see the names and not the conditions.
Click to expand...

I voted for your side in that match :)

Personally I think mufc's pace attack is overkill. All 4 will never be able to perform at their peak together. Imran + Marshall + McGrath is enough, you don't need Donald in there and I don't think he will add much to push to attack with those 3 anyway.
 
Miandad did struggle against the WI at the start of his career but later on he overcame those issues and scored hundreds against them in the late 80's. He also has a great record against Australia who had a great bowling attack at the time too. He's a far better player than Michael Clarke.

If Trescothick is a walking wicket, Stewart and Jones are better not even coming out to bat against McGrath, Donald, Marshall and Imran.
 
MJJ said:
Why would a batsman who is good at five fail at six? Will the psychological pressure of coming one position down be that much?



I tried the same argument against a weaker attack, voters just see the names and not the conditions.
Click to expand...
Not true, the better bowling attack normally wins the test match, in both cases my bowling was better.
 
Actually think Trescothick would fare better vs Stewart. Stewart has to open batting after keeping wickets for maybe 100 overs. That’s got to take its toll. I think Stewart used to open when Jack Russell kept wickets.

Why isn’t Sanga keeping wickets? I think he is superior keeper to Stewart anyway
 
crappycraperson said:
I voted for your side in that match :)

Personally I think mufc's pace attack is overkill. All 4 will never be able to perform at their peak together. Imran + Marshall + McGrath is enough, you don't need Donald in there and I don't think he will add much to push to attack with those 3 anyway.
Click to expand...

I think if there is a conflict it will be between marshall and Donald, imran and McGrath are flexible and unique enough to work with anyone.

Will look into the stats of each bowling with new and old ball as that will be significant. Might change my vote based on that as otherwise I think it's useful to have four goats if one has an off day and bowlers do hunt in pairs.

Offtopic but based on this and that sivori argument I think you and I analyse the matches in a similar way where as some of the draft community here are very fixed in their ways.
 
MJJ said:
I think if there is a conflict it will be between marshall and Donald, imran and McGrath are flexible and unique enough to work with anyone.

Will look into the stats of each bowling with new and old ball as that will be significant. Might change my vote based on that as otherwise I think it's useful to have four goats if one has an off day and bowlers do hunt in pairs.

Offtopic but based on this and that sivori argument I think you and I analyse the matches in a similar way where as some of the draft community here are very fixed in their ways.
Click to expand...
Imran, Marshall and Donald could reverse swing the ball, they are good with any type of ball.

Jeez can't believe we are even discussing this.
 
I don’t think Marshall and Donald can reverse swing. Reverse swing was purely a pak thing till the 2000s. It came to England during the county stints of Wasim and Waqar
 
prath92 said:
I don’t think Marshall and Donald can reverse swing. Reverse swing was purely a pak thing till the 2000s. It came to England during the county stints of Wasim and Waqar
Click to expand...
I stuck to conventional swing, but Malcolm Marshall was a great exponent of reverse swing. He would hide the ball with his other palm when he ran in to bowl so that batsmen wouldn't pick him.
Click to expand...

https://m.timesofindia.com/sports/i...wing-Michael-Holding/articleshow/38592413.cms

http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2016/content/story/1004699.html

I think it's been around for a long time.
 
crappycraperson said:
In all star sides you can't always play your desired position. Fussing up about the same seems like nitpicking. Why exactly would Jones struggle at 6 if he could bat higher up? He proved himself against spin in Chennai test itself. In India, itself you had example of someone like Dravid playing well at 6 despite his favored position being 3 and same with Laxman with switching between 3 and 5 many times.
Click to expand...

MJJ said:
Why would a batsman who is good at five fail at six? Will the psychological pressure of coming one position down be that much?
Click to expand...

Because playing at no.6 requires different temperament than playing at no.5. You are more often than not going to be playing with a tailender at the other hand. The way you build your innings is completely different for a batsman coming in at no. 6 than a middle order batsman at 3, 4 and 5.
 
I think openers, no. 3 and no. 6 are the most crucial positions where you need specialists, other positions are interchangeable.
 
harshad said:
Because playing at no.6 requires different temperament than playing at no.5. You are more often than not going to be playing with a tailender at the other hand. The way you build your innings is completely different for a batsman coming in at no. 6 than a middle order batsman at 3, 4 and 5.
Click to expand...
You are also more likely to face the new ball around that position too.
 
@2mufc0 bowling line up reminds me of the West Indies pace attack of the mid to late seventies and beyond except that he has a top class spinner in his line up as well. I do think his batting line up is relatively weak but "relative" is the operative word here and it's still pretty darn good. I do like that @crappycraperson has at least made the attempt to try and alter his line ups based on the different surfaces but in the end I think it is all for nought. The @2mufc0 bowling line up is just too good. Sorry crappy!
 
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