All Time Premier League Fantasy Draft: QF - Skizzo vs coolredwine | Voting closed

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?


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......................................Team Skizzo........................................................................................Team coolredwine.........................................

TEAM SKIZZO

Tactical Synopsis:


Having bolstered our team considerably in the reinforcement round, we again line up in a fluid 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation. David Silva, one of the most influential playmakers of the Premier League era, replaces Juninho in his favoured central attacking midfield role. Luis Suarez replaces Louis Saha. His 2012-2014 peak establishes him in the top tier of PL performers, with his 2013-14 season being amongst the most iconic of any player in PL history, with a stunning return of 31 goals and 21 assists in 33 games. His suitability as the central striker in a fluid 3 man attack is beyond dispute, and the interplay between Suarez, Kewell, Ronaldo and David Silva is going to be too hot for any defence to handle.

We believe that Coolredwine's rather slow defence is going to be forced to hold a deep defensive line. In recognition of this, we're willing to press our own defensive line forward a little, so it'll be moderate rather than deep as against Tuppet in our last match. This tactic, together with our belief that our midfield unit is better in possession than our opponents, leads us to assert that we'll have an edge both in possession and territorial advantage. Gilberto Silva will reprise his Arsenal Invincibles role in shielding our defence, whilst beside him Mikel Arteta will provide the silky distribution from deeper areas.

How The Game Will Be Won:

Pace:

Coolredwine has assembled a fine team with a particularly eye-catching forward pairing, but Kanchelskis and to a lesser extent a young Gary Speed aside, he lacks pace. Cantona and Shearer, for all their indubitable talents, aren’t going to unduly threaten our defence with blistering speed. Conversely, Coolredwine’s defence is individually outstanding but collectively slow, particularly the centre back pairing of Adams and Hyppia. Against a frontline of Kewell/Suarez/Ronaldo, this lack of speed will prove crucial, and has clear tactical implications.

Variety and Interchange In Attack:

Whilst Shearer is one of the best line leaders in the draft and Cantona was a master at dropping deep to find space, Coolredwine’s wingers are rather more orthodox. In contrast, our front four of Ronaldo, Kewell, Suarez and David Silva are as fluid and multi-faceted as it gets in the context of this draft. All four have played in multiple positions across the attack, and all four can interchange freely to drag Coolredwine’s slow defenders out of position and probe for weaknesses. There’s a clear edge here for us in terms of disrupting his defensive line, heightened by us possessing the outstanding player on the pitch in Ronaldo.

Defensive Lines and Midfield Dominance:

We reckon both teams’ defences would be more comfortable playing a deeper defensive line, but given the relative speed of our attackers and our defences, a deep line becomes a necessity for Coolredwine whilst we can afford to push ours slightly higher depending on the ebb and flow of the match. We see a relatively open midfield tussle, and in terms of penetrative passing, maintaining possession, and ability to find space between the lines, we feel our trio of Gilberto Silva, Mikel Arteta and David Silva has an edge over Coolredwine’s midfield. Ronaldo, Kewell and Suarez will likely see more of the ball and receive a better quality of passing than Cantona, Shearer and Kanchelskis, especially given that Gary Speed will surely find himself on the backfoot for much of the match trying to help Irwin contain Ronaldo.

If Coolredwine keeps his defence pegged back towards his penalty area, it will open up space between the lines for Silva to work his magic, and if he attempts to push his defensive line forward it’ll prove costly against our pacy attackers.
 
TEAM COOLREDWINE

Formation
:

A staggered 4-1-3-2 lead by Eric Cantona and Alan Shearer with Andrei Kanchelskis flanking them on the right side of the wing. The midfield is compromised of Gary Speed, Dennis Wise and Dietmar Hamann while Dennis Irwin, Sami Hyypia, Tony Adams and Lee Dixon guard the goal along with Nigel Martyn.

Defense:

A pretty straightforward part of the team with Sami Hyypia and Tony Adams rejoining forces along with Dennis Irwin and Lee Dixon. Given the opposition’s strength on the wings and their ability to interchange during the 90 minutes, the onus is all the more on my fullbacks, which they will meet with aplomb. Both Irwin and Dixon are two of the best fullbacks the PL has ever seen and as solid as they were in their respective teams, winning multiple PL titles, they will be up to the mark here, competing effectively against Ronaldo and Silva/Kewell. Since both Irwin and Dixon face the possibility of squaring against inverted wingers, both will man mark the attacking player on their side, with the added help of the respective centre back on the particular side. With Hyypia and Adams lining up in the centre, the opposition strikers face a tough task of breaking through them and getting a chance. Be it a physical forward, or a pacy and a dribbling one, both the defenders have enough in their repertoire to stop any kind of a striker put in front of them. As is the case with my formation, Hamann provides extra insurance to the back 4, dropping deep while defending, thus giving an extra man in the middle for the opposition to deal with. The opposition is most likely to play with an AM, thus allowing Hamann to man mark the said player all over the pitch. Not only will this stop the opposition from their play making strategy, Hamann will also effectively take one player out of the game. If the opposition do plan to put out 2 forwards, Hyypia and Adams are anyway waiting to stop them, allowing Hamann to stop their midfield runners.

Unlike the last match, Gary Speed will play a very important part in this game, with the match hinging on his versatility. Gary Speed proved himself to be a very good left and central midfield player, something that he will do here, again. Though he will start the match in the middle of the park, he would move wide left to support Irwin against being doubled up by the opposition, thus filling in the gap and allowing no space for the opposition winger (Ronaldo/Silva) to move into.

Attack:

The attack is lead by two of the best forwards in the PL era, Eric Cantona and Alan Shearer. Both showed during their heydays that they can score against any type of opposition and defenders put in front of them. Be it from inside of the box or outside, both Cantona and Shearer are adept at cracking any thing thrown in front of them. While Shearer would lead the line, Cantona would look to drop deep behind Shearer, pulling out one of the opposition defender, thus creating space for Shearer or incoming right winger and central midfielder to rush in the box. Supporting them would be Andrei Kanchelskis on the right wing. One of the best wingers in the league during his time, he would be used to stretch the opposition’s left side, drilling in crosses from the right. As good as a winger he was, Kanchelskis was also a known goalscorer, thus making the team multi faceted and not relying only on the strikers to get a break through. Supporting the attacking trio from the middle would be Dennis Wise and Gary Speed, ticking the play over and spreading it out wide for Kanchelskis to take advantage of early balls played on the right side. As mentioned, Speed will start in the middle, while moving out wide on occasions on the left. This will give the team another outlet to attack, allowing us to stretch the opposition wide on occasions. This will allow Wise to make late runs in the box and get on the end of second balls and knockdowns to have a pop at the goal.

Supporting Speed and Kanchelskis would be Irwin and Dixon respectively. A major turnaround from the last game, this would provide us strength on the wings as well, with both the duos forming able partnerships on the flanks and doubling up on the opposition. Both fullbacks were able supporting cast in their teams, bombing up and down and combining with the respective wingers to provide an effective outlet to attack. Seeing the opposition fullbacks and their winger’s inability to help out in the defence, this would be a major plus for us, with Speed-Irwin taking on Gallas and Kanchelskis-Dixon taking on Bridge.

Why I think we will win:
  • Cantona and Shearer. Two of the best forwards, can score any kind of goal, against any sort of opposition. Not only that, they can create chances for themselves as well.
  • Defence. A defence which is as solid as it comes, having played against a variety of players and been successful in stopping multitudes of attacks.
  • Leadership and influence. Even on a bad day, this team holds the power of turning around the game. Just looking at the influence and leadership all across the pitch would induce confidence seeing that if there's one team who can make a comeback, it's this one.

Why I think the opposition would lose:
  • Weak fullbacks. Bridge and Gallas might struggle should they get doubled up without any support from the wingers.
  • Luis Suarez. As good as Saint Luis might have been in the Premier League, he has hardly ever scored against the big teams in the PL. This might come back to haunt him as he is facing Hyypia and Adams today.
 
@Rado_N

Could you please help to put up a poll? Thanks

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?
Skizzo
coolredwine

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Not quite how I would have drawn that formation, crw. Your insistence on Cantona stuck up front bugs me, let him be between the midfield and the striker, at the heart of everything. Yea I know he will end up there eventually but why not just show that on the graphic.

Anyway, as expected, very close game. Skizzo's gonna be breathtaking on the counter.
 
  • Weak fullbacks. Bridge and Gallas might struggle should they get doubled up without any support from the wingers.
  • Luis Suarez. As good as Saint Luis might have been in the Premier League, he has hardly ever scored against the big teams in the PL. This might come back to haunt him as he is facing Hyypia and Adams today.
Just to quickly touch on these points.

Firstly it's highly unlikely my full backs will be getting doubled up on here. The only reason Cole is any match for Ronaldo is because he has the pace to keep up, and because in those matches he provides no attacking contribution. As much as I like Irwin, he's going to need one hell of a game on defense, and to ignore attacking at all, and even then I'd back the pace and tricks of Ronaldo to see him causing problems there.

On top of that, speed is expected to play as your width out left, and your center mid. Asking a lot of him when he's also needed to try and help with Ronaldo. There's going to be potentially a lot of time when you have no one offering width on that side, which means desailly can step into the space with Cantona, and Gallas can comfortably tuck in centrally.

As for the Suarez point, it's not really as true as you're trying to paint here. The season he scored 30 league goals, he scored 2 against Everton, and 1 against United...the third and fourth best defenses in the league, and scored three times in two games against Spurs. Not to mention he offers so much more than goals, considering he led the assist charts. He was a nightmare for Arsenals defense when they win 5-1 at Anfield....Mertesacker in particular having a hard with his pace and movement. (Something both Adams and Hyypia don't have either...pace!). He also assisted Sterling against Man City.

The fact is that Kewell, Ronaldo and Suarez have pace to burn, with that and their movement, your defense will have a hard time containing them...especially with Silva picking passes. Not downplaying the ability of your defenders, it just happens that their one "weakness" is pace, and that's consistent along your back line, and we just happen to have the fastest group of attackers together.
 
Not quite how I would have drawn that formation, crw. Your insistence on Cantona stuck up front bugs me, let him be between the midfield and the striker, at the heart of everything. Yea I know he will end up there eventually but why not just show that on the graphic.

Anyway, as expected, very close game. Skizzo's gonna be breathtaking on the counter.
Well, I needed folks in the middle to stop their distribution from the middle, and Cantona IS at the heart of everything, dropping deep as I have mentioned in the write up. Just didn't want the arrows to be an overkill and hence left as it is.
 
This defensive tactic seems to border on the suicidal to me:

Since both Irwin and Dixon face the possibility of squaring against inverted wingers, both will man mark the attacking player on their side, with the added help of the respective centre back on the particular side.

As is the case with my formation, Hamann provides extra insurance to the back 4, dropping deep while defending, thus giving an extra man in the middle for the opposition to deal with. The opposition is most likely to play with an AM, thus allowing Hamann to man mark the said player all over the pitch. Not only will this stop the opposition from their play making strategy, Hamann will also effectively take one player out of the game.

Firstly, Hamann doesn't strike me as an ideal man-marker anyway, relying more on positional intelligence than being an athletic terrier-type like a Gattuso. He'd have a tough time against a dribbler like David Silva even if he maintained his position. As it is, Hamann trailing Silva deep and out to the wings will open up all sorts of space in front of Cooledwine's back four.

As regards our wingers, instructing the full backs to man mark them when they're clearly going to be switching sides regularly seems crazy. Does Irwin shepherd Ronaldo all the way over to the left wing? Or does he just give up on him at some point halfway across the pitch and then wait for Kewell to enter his side of the pitch instead?

Against such a fluid attack and with a relatively static DM in Hamann, this man-marking idea seems crazy.
 
Since both Irwin and Dixon face the possibility of squaring against inverted wingers, both will man mark the attacking player on their side, with the added help of the respective centre back on the particular side.
As regards our wingers, instructing the full backs to man mark them when they're clearly going to be switching sides regularly seems crazy. Does Irwin shepherd Ronaldo all the way over to the left wing? Or does he just give up on him at some point halfway across the pitch and then wait for Kewell to enter his side of the pitch instead?

Against such a fluid attack and with a relatively static DM in Hamann, this man-marking idea seems crazy.
There's your answer.
 
Not quite how I would have drawn that formation, crw. Your insistence on Cantona stuck up front bugs me, let him be between the midfield and the striker, at the heart of everything. Yea I know he will end up there eventually but why not just show that on the graphic.

Anyway, as expected, very close game. Skizzo's gonna be breathtaking on the counter.
I can see where CRW is aiming but a more conventional 4-4-1-1 will be easier on the eye.
 
There's your answer.

It doesn't really answer anything. What happens as Kewell and Ronaldo are switching wings? When do your full backs stop man-marking their respective winger? What happens if Ronaldo drifts to the left alongside Kewell in a given play to create an overload?

You didn't address the Hamann point either. Either way, man-marking against this attack seems all wrong.
 
The "man marking" claim seems odd indeed. I suppose what's meant is that Irwin and Dixon will stay tight on their man, regardless of who that man is (what with the side switching and all), backed up by the centre half.

Which is quite obvious: They have to stay tight on their man.

What is much less obvious is how they'll be able to bomb forward much given the circumstances. The arrows seem unrealistic.
 
regardless of who that man is
That sorta goes against what 'man' marking means, if you are man marking someone you move with your man, which is absurd in this case. Simply defend as a tight unit, with Adams and Dixon there who did that for years you have the foundation already and Hyypia and Irwin both have no problem settling into it. Don't go chasing after Cristiano, you are wasting a man and likely conceding from the consequences.
 
It doesn't really answer anything. What happens as Kewell and Ronaldo are switching wings? When do your full backs stop man-marking their respective winger? What happens if Ronaldo drifts to the left alongside Kewell in a given play to create an overload?

You didn't address the Hamann point either. Either way, man-marking against this attack seems all wrong.
I think the issue is with Hamann moreso. Less so with Dixon and Irwin - I've interpreted that as they'll mark whichever attacker is on their side - fairly standard defensive duties that they'll both be at home with. I'm not sure about the Hamann assignment though both in terms of his own qualities (he's a really solid pick btw) and the qualities of his midfield colleagues (surely Wise/Speed can pick up Silva if he roams - that all-roundedness is one of the reasons they were long-term successful Premiership midfielders).
 
That sorta goes against what 'man' marking means, if you are man marking someone you move with your man, which is absurd in this case. Simply defend as a tight unit, with Adams and Dixon there who did that for years you have the foundation already and Hyypia and Irwin both have no problem settling into it. Don't go chasing after Cristiano, you are wasting a man and likely conceding from the consequences.

That was my point.
 
I think the issue is with Hamann moreso. Less so with Dixon and Irwin - I've interpreted that as they'll mark whichever attacker is on their side - fairly standard defensive duties that they'll both be at home with. I'm not sure about the Hamann assignment though both in terms of his own qualities (he's a really solid pick btw) and the qualities of his midfield colleagues (surely Wise/Speed can pick up Silva if he roams - that all-roundedness is one of the reasons they were long-term successful Premiership midfielders).

Aye, its the Hamann instruction that seemed both unequivocal and incredibly unwise to me. As soon as Silva cops on that Hamann's man-marking him he'll be dragging him all over the pitch.
 
I can't see how CRW's defense will be able to stop Ronaldo/Suarez/Kewell. Specially the first 2. The defense would've been great against a classic PL-pairing (Like Cantona/Shearer tbh), but against the speed and skill of Skizzo's team they seem in trouble to me. When that is backed up by Silva it is just lethal.

Cantona/Shearer on the other side is a great pairing (Once a dream for United), but Skizzo's defense seem more fitting against it, especially with a bit higher line (lack of pacy backroom threat even though Kanch... was quick and an okay goalscorer)

When I also rate Skizzo's keeper and midfield a bit higher I can't really see him losing this match
 


After a diabolical first half, I am back. Changing the line up quickly and rotating the players around to force a shift in the formation, and finally with all the patience for all the questions thrown at me.
 
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@coolredwine , that was primed to be a 4-4-1-1 and I assume you went with the awkward looking formation so that it doesn't look like 3v2 in midfield or that nobody is picking up David Silva.

If you look closely at your rival, that left flank of yours has Gallas, who will pose no threat going forward, so everyone would understand Speed is helping out with Cristiano and/or Silva drifting to that side. Conversely, when he gets the ball it's 1-on-1 if not 2v1 on Gallas. You would have a very strong and appropriate left flank here and chose not to so that Didi could man-mark Silva? That's damage limitation tactics, and there's always one winner with them: damage.
 
It doesn't really answer anything. What happens as Kewell and Ronaldo are switching wings? When do your full backs stop man-marking their respective winger? What happens if Ronaldo drifts to the left alongside Kewell in a given play to create an overload?

You didn't address the Hamann point either. Either way, man-marking against this attack seems all wrong.
When I say man marking, I obviously don't mean players chasing around the opposition players all over the park. That would be just wrong and haphazard. And I understand that. That's why I mentioned Irwin and Dixon taking on players on their side - the side where they are playing. So if Ronaldo is on the left, he would be picked up Irwin, and if shifts towards the right, there would be Dixon against him. Same goes with Kewell. I wouldn't have put it in obvious words in the write up, but that's exactly what I meant and whatever I wrote, I wrote it under the impression that it is a shortened version.
 
and yet another one-sided voting score so far. but in this one, i really think CRW's team will win it more often based on consistency, team-work and performances in the league
 
BTW, I wrote that before seeing the changed tactics. Still don't understand the need to make a clear as day 4-4-1-1 look like a 4-2-3-1. You have great counter-attacking players, not possession players, it's two flat and tight banks of four and hitting them every chance you get, that's the only way you can play and knick this.
 
@coolredwine , that was primed to be a 4-4-1-1 and I assume you went with the awkward looking formation so that it doesn't look like 3v2 in midfield or that nobody is picking up David Silva.

If you look closely at your rival, that left flank of yours has Gallas, who will pose no threat going forward, so everyone would understand Speed is helping out with Cristiano and/or Silva drifting to that side. Conversely, when he gets the ball it's 1-on-1 if not 2v1 on Gallas. You would have a very strong and appropriate left flank here and chose not to so that Didi could man-mark Silva? That's damage limitation tactics, and there's always one winner with them: damage.
Not to man mark Silva per se, but to compress their midfield and stop them from distributing the balls around to Ronaldo and Kewell...and Silva. And of course with Hamann picking whosoever their AM is to stop him from dictating the play. That was the initial idea - which obviously seems to have backfired now.
 
Also, in Skizzo's team, with Silva playing as a proper AM, did he really play in that position with City. From what I have seen, he has mostly started out wide left and then drifted in the middle. So which peak are we counting? Moot question, but still.
 
Not to man mark Silva per se, but to compress their midfield and stop them from distributing the balls around to Ronaldo and Kewell...and Silva. And of course with Hamann picking whosoever their AM is to stop him from dictating the play. That was the initial idea - which obviously seems to have backfired now.

You do that sitting deep with two banks of four, you don't have a more modern pressing side, your personnel belong in a classic 4-4-1-1 counterattacking setup.
 
BTW, I wrote that before seeing the changed tactics. Still don't understand the need to make a clear as day 4-4-1-1 look like a 4-2-3-1. You have great counter-attacking players, not possession players, it's two flat and tight banks of four and hitting them every chance you get, that's the only way you can play and knick this.
obvious formation being obvious and all that. Just that two of my wingers are a bit high here compared to an actual 4-4-1-1.
 
obvious formation being obvious and all that. Just that two of my wingers are a bit high here compared to an actual 4-4-1-1.

Way too high. Sorry to be anal about it, but I always take formation sheets as an indicator of how a manager sees the game laid out and how they expect it to pan out. Yours tells me all the wrong things, it tells me you are trying to play a game that doesn't suit you but your oppo.