All Time Chain Draft - QF1: Skizzo vs MJJ/crappy

With playes are career best, who will win the match?

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

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..........................................Team Skizzo........................................................................................Team MJJ/crappy.....................................


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Team Skizzo

Formation - 4321

I drafted in Cannavaro and Ramos to both help shore up the defence, and add an extra attacking threat down the right hand side. Both Camacho and Ramos will be defenders first, but look to get forward when they are able to, and put crosses in and link up with the attackers.

Between Buffon and the back 4, and Hierro and Pirri, my squad has plenty of grit, determination, and natural leaders who will bring the best out of each other. Which will be needed against the quality team MJJ and Crappy have assembled.

Gameplan

The team will be instructed to play a deep line, to not allow the pace of Romario and Henry to be as effective. Keeping those two and Figo in front of the defence makes it easier to stifle some of their threat. While Figo will be a handful, he won't have much of a target in the box to aim for with crosses. Henry will look to drift centrally, which will bring him in to where we have Cannavaro and Santamaria marshaling the defence, and with no AM on the opposite side, Hierro can collapse in to some of that space also.

I assume Marcelo and Lahm will be the attacking fullbacks, which is why Riquelme is dropped, and Sivori and Tevez will play just behind Charles. Two reasons for that, one is they will look to drift wide into the space behind the fullbacks when necessary, opening space for each other, and to give charles more space in the area. It also negates some of the effectiveness of them playing a DM who won't know where to pick up a player. Secondly, it removes any passengers (Riquelme) from the team and gives us a full squad of players who will work hard to win the ball back, and put in a shift defensively and offensively.

On the opposite side, while they're quality players, there are a few who won't do much once the ball is turned over. In a hlgame of fine margins, that can tip the scales in our favour.

When we win the ball, we have great passers in defence and midfield who will look to spring us forward quickly and exploit the space left in behind of Marcelo and Lahm.

Team MJJ/crappy

Formation : 4-3-3

Attack

The best forward in the draft, Romario leads the line. Figo will run the right wing, capable of taking on any full back in this draft. He will be further strengthened by added support of Lahm. The attack is rounded off by Henry as a left forward. Combined together are handful for any defense complied in this draft. With Marcelo's support, Henry will be cutting in from the left and linking up with Romario. Both he and Figo are capable of creating from either the wing or through the middle. Absence of a designated number 10 in 433 will allow Henry to play a more free role from the left and influence the game more rather than just play as a traditional left inner forward. We have 3 match winners in attack. All 3 attackers are capable of winning the game on their own.

Midfield

A powerhouse of a midfield with Sammer playing his natural libero role. Matthias Sammer excelled in that libero position, he has the nous to know where he needs to be in, in defense to cover for someone or join the midfield battle. Given the opposition in this matchup he will be spending most of the time in front of the defense, stiffing any central creativity of the opposition.
Vieira and Deschamps will battle it out with anyone in the central area. Deschamps will play the more conservative role defensively while Vieira will play his natural box to box role. He showed at Arsenal that he is capable of contributing to the attack from a central position.

Defense

Kohler-Thiago are a dream pairing. Both compliment each other perfectly. Kohler is a man marker extraordinaire, tough enough to go against any forward in footballing history. Thiago Silva, the best defender in modern day football, possess every defensive facet required and adds some pace to the defensive line. Marcelo is the perfect kind of attacking full back to play on the left to compliment Henry who would be playing in the inner left channel rather than out wide. His attack forays won't even leave the team exposed since Sammer is capable of falling back into the defense and Kohler/Deschamps can cover for him too. Lahm on the right gets to play in his best role and will will play the role of a modern day full back who will attack and defend, providing an engine out wide for the whole team. Finally, we have the best keeper of current era in Martin Neuer as the final wall.

Why we will win

- Perfect wing partnerships. Figo+Lahm and Henry+Marcelo form the perfect combo on either wing. Against a diamond, it would bring a lot of attacking opportunities to stretch the opposition defense and midfield.

- Romario. The best striker in the draft, any CB available would have a tough job containing him. He will always give our team that extra edge in any contest. Not sure if Cannavarro can deal with a striker like him.

- Who takes on Henry? If it is Ramos then that's a clearly lop sided battle in our favor. If one of the CBs is going take him on then that just creates more space for Romario to exploit.

- Kohler + Thiago + Sammer combo pretty much shuts out the opposition from the central area. Riquelme, on whom the opposition will be most reliant on to create, will be ineffective by lack of space in front of the defense. Moreover Kohler is capable of dealing with Charles' aerial threat.

To summarize, we have sufficient presence in our midfield to deal with opposition's diamond. Plus, our threat on the wings would force the opposition into reactive play throughout allowing us to dominate the match and win.
 
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Never thought I'd see the day, Tevez making it to a QF in an all time draft :lol: Not saying this as a weakness, as he's perfectly positioned, but just seeing him in the teamsheet gives me a surreal feeling!

Two astonishing teams. This would be an epic match.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Never thought I'd see the day, Tevez making it to a QF in an all time draft :lol: Not saying this as a weakness, as he's perfectly positioned, but just seeing him in the teamsheet gives me a surreal feeling!

Two astonishing teams. This would be an epic match.
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I was hoping it would be a bit of a surprise :lol: I needed someone to do the job he's basically done throughout his career...spread the play, link up play, offer a goal threat, and run himself into the ground.

Basically someone to get play away from their imposing looking Sammer - Kohler - Silva axis
 
Interesting.. I did not factor into the dropping of Riquelme by Skizzo here. Playing him would certainly would have resulted in a very lop sided contest.

As it is I am not too worried. This is simply the case of a side meeting another with better counterparts.

Some things to clarify and raise

- Can those more in the know comment on Sivorri's role here? I do find that a lot of times in these drafts people would just throw a forward out wide, even though he is more likely to play centrally throughout. Tevez again, he is ok as part of a 433 but I don't think he is someone you use to target a full back out wide. He will mostly be up against the center backs most of the time.

- The whole dance about attacking full backs again? Marcelo and Lahm does not mean I will be playing with 3 at the back. Lahm is the best modern full back about when it comes to balancing between attack and defense while Marcelo can be a bit gung ho at times, but unlike some other attacking full backs, he is always busting a gut to get back in position. Regardless our CMs provide ample cover for either full back when they have ventured forward.

- Skizzo's game play of staying deep against our front 3. Romario and Henry both played against such set ups throughout their careers. Figo too while at Madrid came up against such set ups plenty of times. So it is nothing unique for them. Same goes for Marcelo or Lahm especially, since they will venture forward too. Seems too simplistic to suggest anything of this kind would work here.
 
crappycraperson said:
Interesting.. I did not factor into the dropping of Riquelme by Skizzo here. Playing him would certainly would have resulted in a very lop sided contest.

As it is I am not too worried. This is simply the case of a side meeting another with better counterparts.

Some things to clarify and raise

- Can those more in the know comment on Sivorri's role here? I do find that a lot of times in these drafts people would just throw a forward out wide, even though he is more likely to play centrally throughout. Tevez again, he is ok as part of a 433 but I don't think he is someone you use to target a full back out wide. He will mostly be up against the center backs most of the time.

- The whole dance about attacking full backs again? Marcelo and Lahm does not mean I will be playing with 3 at the back. Lahm is the best modern full back about when it comes to balancing between attack and defense while Marcelo can be a bit gung ho at times, but unlike some other attacking full backs, he is always busting a gut to get back in position. Regardless our CMs provide ample cover for either full back when they have ventured forward.

- Skizzo's game play of staying deep against our front 3. Romario and Henry both played against such set ups throughout their careers. Figo too while at Madrid came up against such set ups plenty of times. So it is nothing unique for them. Same goes for Marcelo or Lahm especially, since they will venture forward too. Seems too simplistic to suggest anything of this kind would work here.
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First of all, good luck :) Although judging by 4 quick votes, doesn't seem like you'll need it :lol:

I never suggested you'll play 3 at the back, just that when Marcelo and/or lahm attack, there will be space behind them to exploit. Doesn't seem strange to comment on that.

Don't know what issue you have with Sivori here. You make it sound like I'm trying to pull some sneaky move.

As for simplistic game plan? Why do things need to be complicated? Romario has pace as probably his biggest asset, or one of, so limit the chance he has to exploit that. It's no different than you saying "Oh we have Figo henry and Romario who are all good and can win the game on their own"
 
Skizzo said:
First of all, good luck :) Although judging by 4 quick votes, doesn't seem like you'll need it :lol:

I never suggested you'll play 3 at the back, just that when Marcelo and/or lahm attack, there will be space behind them to exploit. Doesn't seem strange to comment on that.

Don't know what issue you have with Sivori here. You make it sound like I'm trying to pull some sneaky move.

As for simplistic game plan? Why do things need to be complicated? Romario has pace as probably his biggest asset, or one of, so limit the chance he has to exploit that. It's no different than you saying "Oh we have Figo henry and Romario who are all good and can win the game on their own"
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Sivori thing is an honest admission that I have not read or watched too much of him to make an argument regarding his position, hence asking others to chip in.

I wrote it wrong, I did not mean your tactics were simplistic. I meant it is not as easy as playing deep against Romario, Henry etc to stop them from being effective.

Coming back to the full back points, like I said I don't see Tevez as a striker who would actively target a wide position. Ability of Sammer to drop into the defense allows either center back to effectively cover any such area anyway.
 
crappycraperson said:
Sivori thing is an honest admission that I have not read or watched too much of him to make an argument regarding his position, hence asking others to chip in.

I wrote it wrong, I did not mean your tactics were simplistic. I meant it is not as easy as playing deep against Romario, Henry etc to stop them from being effective.

Coming back to the full back points, like I said I don't see Tevez as a striker who would actively target a wide position. Ability of Sammer to drop into the defense allows either center back to effectively cover any such area anyway.
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Ah fair enough on the sivori point. Thought you were questioning his ability to do so, not asking a serious question. I'll find some more footage on him, but he often drifted wide in attack.

Tevez isn't a winger per se, but he's capable of running those channels, and he'll be difficult to pick up as always.

And yeah, to just say a deep line stops you is a basic explanation. .. But that's part of the issue on doing it on my phone :lol: plus thought it would add more discussion in here... Although it seems to be getting a bit pointless :p
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
@MJJ @crappycraperson play nice lads!
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:lol: you tell 'em

I'm jk btw..mi don't mind if they're both here :)

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
7-0 :confused:
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I was a bit perplexed myself...especially with no feeeback. Thought I was set up solid defensively, midfield is pretty even, and goal threats are similar. .. Although I don't have the recognizable names/familiar players, so I get some of it. Not knowing how they would work etc.

Not to take anything away from the other team. Great quality. Once my Internet is back up guess I'll have to let everyone know about Sivori and Pirri again.
 
Skizzo said:
:lol:
I was a bit perplexed myself...especially with no feeeback. Thought I was set up solid defensively, midfield is pretty even, and goal threats are similar. .. Although I don't have the recognizable names/familiar players, so I get some of it. Not knowing how they would work etc.
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Don't agree. It is not just about big names. Romario is the best attacking player on the park. He really should have been banned before hand because every other forward in his tier has been banned. Moreover, Figo is also the only natural winger out there, he will be a great weapon to stretch a tight defense.
Again, Sammer and Hierro play similar roles but the former has that extra edge since this role suits him so much.

At this stage in an all-time draft everyone will have a great side. But small advantages do matter. The 3 players I mention are the key difference makers here over your side.
 
Both defenses are rock solid. During my loss against Skizzo, I managed to read up on Santamaria and appreciate him more than before. With Hierro shielding, both defences are break even imo.

On midfield, I'm not sure how Sammer and Deschamps will work together. The team is better off with another B2B than Deschamps imo. I think their roles will have a major overlap and both bring something very similar to the table in that area. Pirri is better utilized here that in my game. Between him and Lucha, I think Skizzo holds an edge here.

On attack, the right flanks of both teams are amazing and are quite even. On the left flank, Skizzo has an edge with Pirri/Sivori being better in attack than Deschamps.

I've voted Skizzo for the edge above.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Both defenses are rock solid. During my loss against Skizzo, I managed to read up on Santamaria and appreciate him more than before. With Hierro shielding, both defences are break even imo.

On midfield, I'm not sure how Sammer and Deschamps will work together. The team is better off with another B2B than Deschamps imo. Pirri is better utilized here that in my game. Between him and Lucha, I think Skizzo holds an edge here.

On attack, the right flanks of both teams are amazing and are quite eveno. On the left flank, Skizzo has an edge with Pirri/Sivori being better in attack than Deschamps.

I've voted Skizzo for the edge above.
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I don't agree with a lot there. But to call Figo on right as even to Tevez playing as a wing forward is absurd IMO.

Also Sivori on left comes up against the axis of Vieira-Lahm-Thiago Silva. Don't think there is a weak player there to be targeted.

Our own forward at Left, Henry going up against Ramos or Cannavarro is a much clearer route towards goal.
 
crappycraperson said:
MJJ told me he would be away and I should take over. I also did not post once he was.
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I was just kidding. I don't mind if you both have things to say :)

crappycraperson said:
Don't agree. It is not just about big names. Romario is the best attacking player on the park. He really should have been banned before hand because every other forward in his tier has been banned. Moreover, Figo is also the only natural winger out there, he will be a great weapon to stretch a tight defense.
Again, Sammer and Hierro play similar roles but the former has that extra edge since this role suits him so much.

At this stage in an all-time draft everyone will have a great side. But small advantages do matter. The 3 players I mention are the key difference makers here over your side.
Click to expand...

I didn't say your big names aren't good... just more recognizable, which is a benefit. @antohan even madea point last time about finally watching Pirri and he ran the park and was everywhere.

Same thing with Sivori. You even had to ask yourself. For people that scan, seeing Henry is easier to imagine than Sivori. That's what I meant.
 
BLITZKRIEG!

Might as well have some fun with it. Well keep the solid 6 at the back...But now with 3 strikers, and Riquelme in the hole behind to pull the strings.

Sammer will have to drop in to defence to pick up Charles, with Riquelme afforded a bit more space in behind.



@Edgar Allan Pillow
 
crappycraperson said:
Interesting.. I did not factor into the dropping of Riquelme by Skizzo here. Playing him would certainly would have resulted in a very lop sided contest.

As it is I am not too worried. This is simply the case of a side meeting another with better counterparts.

Some things to clarify and raise

- Can those more in the know comment on Sivorri's role here? I do find that a lot of times in these drafts people would just throw a forward out wide, even though he is more likely to play centrally throughout. Tevez again, he is ok as part of a 433 but I don't think he is someone you use to target a full back out wide. He will mostly be up against the center backs most of the time.

- The whole dance about attacking full backs again? Marcelo and Lahm does not mean I will be playing with 3 at the back. Lahm is the best modern full back about when it comes to balancing between attack and defense while Marcelo can be a bit gung ho at times, but unlike some other attacking full backs, he is always busting a gut to get back in position. Regardless our CMs provide ample cover for either full back when they have ventured forward.

- Skizzo's game play of staying deep against our front 3. Romario and Henry both played against such set ups throughout their careers. Figo too while at Madrid came up against such set ups plenty of times. So it is nothing unique for them. Same goes for Marcelo or Lahm especially, since they will venture forward too. Seems too simplistic to suggest anything of this kind would work here.
Click to expand...

Simply put, Sívori is the one player who could sneak a win for @Skizzo here.

I'm not seeing this anywhere near as one-sided as the voting indicates.

  • Skizzo's defence is solid if not as impressive as yours.
  • The midfields are comparable, if lacking a bit in creativity. What Sammer has on Hierro as a libero Fernando recoups in the significant contribution he can make to a better transition.
  • Tévez is a bit underwhelming but there's no denying he works hard and will occupy that side of the defence.
  • And that could be enough as Sívori regularly attacks the space between Lahm and Silva to get the cross in for Charles and another tremendous header of the ball like Lucho.
I can see both sides scoring and it would go down to a mixture of luck, mistakes, and who scores first.
 
antohan said:
Simply put, Sívori is the one player who could sneak a win for @Skizzo here.

I'm not seeing this anywhere near as one-sided as the voting indicates.

  • Skizzo's defence is solid if not as impressive as yours.
  • The midfields are comparable, if lacking a bit in creativity. What Sammer has on Hierro as a libero Fernando recoups in the significant contribution he can make to a better transition.
  • Tévez is a bit underwhelming but there's no denying he works hard and will occupy that side of the defence.
  • And that could be enough as Sívori regularly attacks the space between Lahm and Silva to get the cross in for Charles and another tremendous header of the ball like Lucho.
I can see both sides scoring and it would go down to a mixture of luck, mistakes, and who scores first.
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Like I said Henry will also be attacking the space between Ramos and Cannavaro. Ramos is a clear weak link there unlike Silva or Lahm.

Anyway all this is mute now, Skizzo has completely changed his shape.
 
crappycraperson said:
Like I said Henry will also be attacking the space between Ramos and Cannavaro. Ramos is a clear weak link there unlike Silva or Lahm.

Anyway all this is mute now, Skizzo has completely changed his shape.
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Ramos isn't a weak link, but I see where you're trying to go with it.

And we haven't changed just our shape...but our entire mentality...to BLITZKRIEG!
 
antohan said:
Simply put, Sívori is the one player who could sneak a win for @Skizzo here.

I'm not seeing this anywhere near as one-sided as the voting indicates.

  • Skizzo's defence is solid if not as impressive as yours.
  • The midfields are comparable, if lacking a bit in creativity. What Sammer has on Hierro as a libero Fernando recoups in the significant contribution he can make to a better transition.
  • Tévez is a bit underwhelming but there's no denying he works hard and will occupy that side of the defence.
  • And that could be enough as Sívori regularly attacks the space between Lahm and Silva to get the cross in for Charles and another tremendous header of the ball like Lucho.
I can see both sides scoring and it would go down to a mixture of luck, mistakes, and who scores first.
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Not sneaking anything at whatever amount of votes down I already am :lol:

Too many unknowns for people to grasp I think. Don't have too much time to do them justice either :(
 
Skizzo said:
BLITZKRIEG!

Might as well have some fun with it. Well keep the solid 6 at the back...But now with 3 strikers, and Riquelme in the hole behind to pull the strings.

Sammer will have to drop in to defence to pick up Charles, with Riquelme afforded a bit more space in behind.



@Edgar Allan Pillow
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Let's clarify something here, when Sammer does drop back it is a back 5 against your front 3. Lahm and Marcelo are not going turn into passengers here. They will still be squeezing the space for your wide forwards.

Now the beauty of having Sammer is that he is perceptive enough to move into midfield or defense as required. Like Balu once put it in his write up -

Balu said:
Matthias Sammer excelled in that libero position, he will be where he's needed. If the team is up against a lone striker, he joins the midfield battle and has more freedom going forward. Next to him is a perfectly complementary stopper/libero pair of the highest quality in Buchwald and Kohler. That's as great a 3 man defense as you can hope for and they all played together at one point during their career.
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Replace Buchwald with Thiago and it all fits.

Also when Sammer does drop into defense, you still have Deschamps or Vieira to clog up that central area for Riquelme. Both are capable defensively themselves.

Coming to attack, means much more open spaces for the attacking trio and full backs to exploit.
 
Skizzo said:
Ramos isn't a weak link, but I see where you're trying to go with it.

And we haven't changed just our shape...but our entire mentality...to BLITZKRIEG!
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Ramos as a right back (and lesser so as a center back) is a clear weak link.
 
crappycraperson said:
Let's clarify something here, when Sammer does drop back it is a back 5 against your front 3. Lahm and Marcelo are not going turn into passengers here. They will still be squeezing the space for your wide forwards.

Now the beauty of having Sammer is that he is perceptive enough to move into midfield or defense as required. Like Balu once put it in his write up -


Replace Buchwald with Thiago and it all fits.

Also when Sammer does drop into defense, you still have Deschamps or Vieira to clog up that central area for Riquelme. Both are capable defensively themselves.

Coming to attack, means much more open spaces for the attacking trio and full backs to exploit.
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3 forwards against 3 centerbacks.

On one side you argue that your attackers attack space between full backs and centerbacks. ..But seem to think it can't happen on the other side. Marcelo and Lahm aren't staying back all game are they? So there will be times when there's space out there to move into.

Sammer dropping back leaves Riquelme more space. Drop someone else back on him and Pirri and Hierro get more space. They're both quite handy at getting on the scoresheet too.

You also don't have to take everything so seriously or as a personal attack on your team :lol: it's just a bit of fun.
 
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