In another thread it was mentioned that ADS is suited best in a 4231. I'm not sure that's ideal but am open to argument. Ideally I think you want four players in front of him (Real played a sort of 3-2-1-4) but I'm not sure how to replicate that in a modernish formation. So over to you lot.
All time best team built around Alfredo Di Stefano
- Thread starter Physiocrat
- Start date
Not in a 4231 at all. Given his complete dominating prowess you don't need 7 players behind him. Posting another one of my draft teams from another forum. Can shuffle a couple of names in there but the gist is clear. There's a reason for the quote "The pitch at Santiago Bernabeau is tilted to the left."
Yeah, a 433 with inverted full backs could work well as it would be a 235 in possession. Something like-
Dzajic---------MVB----------Best
-------------ADS--------Gullit---------
------------------Rikjaard------------
Breitner--Kohler---Nesta---Neeskens
-------------------Big Pete------------------
Dzajic---------MVB----------Best
-------------ADS--------Gullit---------
------------------Rikjaard------------
Breitner--Kohler---Nesta---Neeskens
-------------------Big Pete------------------
I get the Gento ADS link but I just think Dzajic is the better player and offers more variety.
Also, whilst I'm not Mourinho when it comes to my overall approach, I do prefer a tall CF as it allows more of an aerial option.
How about a WM?
Not in a 4231 at all. Given his complete dominating prowess you don't need 7 players behind him. Posting another one of my draft teams from another forum. Can shuffle a couple of names in there but the gist is clear. There's a reason for the quote "The pitch at Santiago Bernabeau is tilted to the left."
That's a great effort. The one thing I would like to debate is that you have to change ADS' and Kocsis' starting positions. I know Kocsis is used as an CF in modern formations and that is not wrong at all, but in an old formation like when he played for Hungary, he was an inside forward. Hidegkuti was the false CF and that should be Di Stefano's position here like he played for Real Madrid.
Maybe the translation from inside forward is quite difficult, we think of it like AM or SS, but I like to believe it is more expansive than that. Think Cristiano Ronaldo, Anthony Martial etc., I would absolutely use them as inside forwards in a WM System, but not as AM or SS in a modern formation.
I am glad to see the WM/WW efforts here because I definitely think he would shine there more. He gets underselled/underrated in a 4231 because people imagine him there as a typical 10 and compare him with other 10s like Maradona/Platini etc, even though he wasn't that. I will try to think of another use of him in a modern formation and post it later.
Not the strongest XI by any means, but I just wanted to explore the entirety of Di Stéfano's remarkable skill set as the playmaker/puppeteer/enforcer in chief without Gento or Puskás or del Sol or Rial, so the team is set up to do pretty much what he wants in terms of passing and scoring and dribbling, and there won't be a lot of intrusion from ball hoggers (Best is a slight exception but he played with Charlton: he should be ok in theory) or consummate midfield generals (like Didi)...so his perceptive spatial movement and ball dominance will be at the forefront.
Starts with a WM-ish shape with Di Stéfano as the False 9 bringing Romário into the fold...keeping him as the sole designated striker because Nedvěd compares favorably with someone like del Sol...and with best as wide forward another striker might not have been prudent - then a 433, of sorts, where he can dictate the game from a nominal left AM position or recede deeper as a playmaking 6 when Rijkaard moves to box-to-box, and finally as a libero with Voronin alternating in defense or midfield in synchronization with Di Stéfano.
Reckon Rijkaard will excel as a part-time box-to-box...as opposed to being a strict destroyer, Voronin operates as a holding midfielder, marker and defender...and The Don should, at least in theory, be able to exert the type of all-encompassing influence that took Bobby Charlton's breath away:
Starts with a WM-ish shape with Di Stéfano as the False 9 bringing Romário into the fold...keeping him as the sole designated striker because Nedvěd compares favorably with someone like del Sol...and with best as wide forward another striker might not have been prudent - then a 433, of sorts, where he can dictate the game from a nominal left AM position or recede deeper as a playmaking 6 when Rijkaard moves to box-to-box, and finally as a libero with Voronin alternating in defense or midfield in synchronization with Di Stéfano.
Reckon Rijkaard will excel as a part-time box-to-box...as opposed to being a strict destroyer, Voronin operates as a holding midfielder, marker and defender...and The Don should, at least in theory, be able to exert the type of all-encompassing influence that took Bobby Charlton's breath away:
The image hasn't worked but that sound quite interesting.
PM it me and I'll post it
The only GOAT historically who could pull of a 3 man defense all time team with modern tactics is Cruyff.
No matter how hard working Di Stefano was, his defense would be ripped apart with modern tactics.
I think a 4-2-3-1 with one of the two midfielders being very attacking would be best for him.
I liked the Di Stefano-Gullit-Rijkaard trio a lot.
No matter how hard working Di Stefano was, his defense would be ripped apart with modern tactics.
I think a 4-2-3-1 with one of the two midfielders being very attacking would be best for him.
I liked the Di Stefano-Gullit-Rijkaard trio a lot.
The more I think of it, the more I feel Madrid's diamond of 2002-03 would be the perfect setup for Di Stefano where the number 6 and 8 are both hard working and adventurous.
You'd definitely want two strikers ahead of Di Stefano so that he is in his element. Both the strikers should be quick and capable of drifting wide if needed.
You would want lots of play to happen on the wings but then you would want your midfield to have just the right amount of steel and not too much to not get the most attacking potential out of the setup.
Can't think of better players than Nedved and Figo for those roles.
Carlos and Cafu just open up more variations in attack.
Aye, this would be my all time best Di Stefano lineup
You'd definitely want two strikers ahead of Di Stefano so that he is in his element. Both the strikers should be quick and capable of drifting wide if needed.
You would want lots of play to happen on the wings but then you would want your midfield to have just the right amount of steel and not too much to not get the most attacking potential out of the setup.
Can't think of better players than Nedved and Figo for those roles.
Carlos and Cafu just open up more variations in attack.
Aye, this would be my all time best Di Stefano lineup
@idmanager That's an interesting setup. I can see the midfield working really well. With Di Stefano you can afford to have such attacking wide shutters. I think you could do with more of a ball player at CB but that would be a highly entertaining, and functional side.
I'd go with a muppet'esque formation, but one which I think is practical and will work. With 3 intelligent players all capable of roaming scoring and creating for each other, it'll be a dynamic and unpredictable attack.
As good that would sound, no way Cruyff and Di Stefano would work.I'd go with a muppet'esque formation, but one which I think is practical and will work. With 3 intelligent players all capable of roaming scoring and creating for each other, it'll be a dynamic and unpredictable attack.
They'll kill each other first rather than subdue the other to their ideology and would occupy the same favorite inside left channel most of the time, drop for the ball at the same time, want the ball 90% of the time to initialize the attack etc..
He worked with Puskas who was also a Inside Left player
I think Di Stefano is a good fit to be played with other GOATs and he's not a one trick pony and will adapt. Same with Cruyff who is as comfortable around the middle or right.This is probably one of the best articles I've ever read on AdS
https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/09/10/in-depth-analysis-alfredo-di-stefano/
He was all about space and making himself available, and this means he was everywhere, from receiving the ball from GK to dictating the play from the deep or pulling defenders to score.
If there was a player in similar mould of Cruyff, it is Di Stefano. Diluting it to "They won't work because they both prefer Inside Left" is doing a gross injustice to both of them. I reckon they'd have a blast playing with each other and it'll be a nightmare for the opponent.
https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/09/10/in-depth-analysis-alfredo-di-stefano/
He was all about space and making himself available, and this means he was everywhere, from receiving the ball from GK to dictating the play from the deep or pulling defenders to score.
Bobby Charlton said:
If there was a player in similar mould of Cruyff, it is Di Stefano. Diluting it to "They won't work because they both prefer Inside Left" is doing a gross injustice to both of them. I reckon they'd have a blast playing with each other and it'll be a nightmare for the opponent.
He worked with Puskas who was also a Inside Left player
It's not Cruyff being an inside left that is the problem, it is his dominant style of play where Cruyff wanted the ball all the time just like ADS. The classic conflict between ADS and another dominant playmaker was Didi, it just didn't work.
@Edgar Allan Pillow as Physio mentioned, that inside left is just a detail in the grand scheme of things really.
Both are focal players of their teams - the conductors. It's just too many clashes to work and both of them to be in their GOAT roles.
Both are focal players of their teams - the conductors. It's just too many clashes to work and both of them to be in their GOAT roles.
Puskas said that he had to limit his game and play basically as a striker for Madrid, because otherwise his role would've overlapped with Di Stefano's — and he did it because he knew who was who in that team. Cruyff will never do that, not in a million yearsHe worked with Puskas who was also a Inside Left player
Looks like we have to agree to disagree. Both were conductors because there was nobody else. And I disagree that Cruyff 'wanted the ball all the time' He was a good dribbler, but his (and the team's) game was never about what they did with the ball. Their off the ball movement was was that set them apart, imo.
Rather than a virtuoso, we'd just be seeing a ballet!
Hmm, valid point.
Didi at Real?
Neeskens, Van Hanegem?
There were lot of playmakers around Cruyff most of the time, but he always, always dropped deep to conduct the play. Same with Di Stefano. They were very much alike and didn't really like it if someone else took that away from them. Both Van Hanegem and Puskas had to adjust their game to bed in the systems they had to play in. Didi didn't and he went out of the way soon enough.
As @harms mentioned Puskas was primarily a striker, hence later on he even gained weight and generally his movement was around or in the box, compared to his earlier years when he was an inside left.
Law
Charlton di Stefano Gullit
Davids Rijkaard
Brehme Figueroa McGrath Cafu
Rijkaard with freedom to drop into defense when needed or perhaps Desailly for that role.Charlton di Stefano Gullit
Davids Rijkaard
Brehme Figueroa McGrath Cafu
Bloody hell. Just how many box to box midfielders do you need.
Bloody hell. Just how many box to box midfielders do you need.
Can never have enough of them
Reason for them industry and dynamism is simple. Can see Di Stefano thriving in such a set up as just about anyone right from Law to Davids, will be comfortable with di Stefano dropping into their zone and they can link up in tandem with him or drop deep, venture forward or peel into the channels as they see fit.
Secondly whilst it's tempting to shoe horn a purely flair player or two here given Di Stefano's sheer presence, it has to be noted that di Stefano did appreciate his teammates grafting and tended to get put off by the likes of Didi and Kopa (iirc) for not working their socks off. Obviously you can't really enforce that in a real draft game but it can be done here.
And there's absolutely no doubt who the top dog in that side is with Law, Charlton and Gullit offering the best blend of individualism and ability to accomodative di Stefano.
Went with Davids and Rijkaard as that side needed some defensive cover out wide with two marauding wing backs, less so on the right with Gullit. Also precisely the reason for Figueroa - McGrath duo at the back.