[After the Dutch] Who are 2nd most influential nation on the modern world game?

Fortitude

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GlazersHater said:
I wouldn't sit the Netherlands in that table neither that's why I didn't mentioned them. But I think Netherlands is above England, even when they have won nothing just purely because their influence in football is deeper than England's with all due respect.
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Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
Can you get deeper than basically creating what became 20th century football and spreading it around the world? The Netherlands were minnows until the late 60s and not to take away from how influential Ajax/national team '70s tactics was for modern football, but they weren't the only ones implementing ideas like pressing, false nine and players needing to be universal/polyvalent. England/UK may have lapsed long ago into tactical dinousaurs/followers of balding Spaniards, but it doesn't get more fundamental than their influence on football.
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The second, being correct of course.

So who comes next, and why?
 
Has to be Spain, no? Tiki Taka and its variations. The influence Spanish managers have on current systems etc
 
Spain for style, France for the number of elite players their academies churn out every year.
 
Spain I’d say. Not just for their influence on style, type of players but also for the quality of the managers they’re seemingly producing. And this success goes all the way through to the women’s NT and at youth levels.
 
England of course, have influenced a Joga Bonito Brazil to play like Barnsley for the last decade or so. And yes I give credit to England for that.
 
Fortitude said:
The second, being correct of course.

So who comes next, and why?
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Austria-Hungary of the early 20th century, because they're pretty much the fathers of football as we know it(along with a few forward-thinking brits)
 
England will by definition be first by the virtue of creating the whole thing to begin with or at least the one we know in it's modern iteration.

Everyone already knows about the Dutch but one could argue the yugoslavians and the Hungarians had a similar outsized contribution to the beautiful game, one could even consider the great super team of 50s hungary as the a very direct precursor of what became the Dutch total football.

Then you have italy with their trademark defensive systems ( which one could argue was imported from south america) all the way through to sacchi, all of which have been quite influential and in some ways is shown through the prominence and prevalence of their football managers all over the footballing globe.

Also south amrica developed somewhat independently of Europe in regards to how the progressed their outlook towards football so surely their contribution mustn't be ignored either.

In regards to Spain I think their influence gets overblown at times due to recency bias, they without a doubt are best practitioners of the modern brand of football as we know it but how much of it I'd creation compared to appliance? While there's certainly a lot of the former I belive it's mostly the latter but be it as it may we'll get a more balanced view as time goes by.
 
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TsuWave said:
Had a spark when you started, but now you’re just garbage, fell from top 10 to not mentioned at all
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Even in jest, it's mad how fortunes have changed from the turn of this century until now!

'Play like a Brazilian' 'samba football' 'joga bonito' were basically synonyms for exceptional football and pinnacle technique. The 2000's come around and Spain arise as paradigm shifting force, and the last of the above is solely in Neymar's hands. He's now essentially done and Brazil have scraps to rely on whilst Spain are perennially at the top of the club and/or national game.

is it all Pep (or offshoot) or something more?
didz said:
Hungary and Brazil
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giorno said:
Austria-Hungary of the early 20th century, because they're pretty much the fathers of football as we know it(along with a few forward-thinking brits)
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Fair answer. Where would we be without 4-man backlines, in particular?
 
The US. There's just something inherently American with modern football.
 
I think historically you would have to say Brazil. The flair and joy and sexiness of their football had a lot to do with football becoming the most popular sport on earth.

Italian football had a massive impact in terms of tactical rigidity and discipline, as well as Serie A being the first league to truly attract large numbers of top class players to move countries for significant fees. Something the Premier League and England took to another level afterwards.

Obviously Spain and Spanish coaches have had huge influence over the past decade even if they weren’t hugely impactful historically.
 
In the history of the game Britain because about half the clubs in world football wouldn't exist without Britain's influence in spreading the game.

In the modern era is a different story however.
 
England are like the kid who brought the ball and whose dad paid for the jerseys. They’ll tell you how important they are and will threaten to take the ball home every so often, but once the game starts nobody is paying them too much attention.
 
Not second, but Portugal deserve a shout over the last 20 years. They weren't much before that in terms of influence but right now, their league is a stepping stone for most of South American players to make it to the PL or La Liga. In terms of the Portuguese themselves, they've been major exporters of some star talents at the player and manager level... started with Rui Costa, and then Jose Mourinho, Cristiano Ronaldo, Bebe...
 
Brazil for me. Don't think it is extreme if you go with them 1st imo

Edit: ah, modern game. Yeah, bloody Dutch are 1st no doubt with Spain most likely 2nd
 
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England created the groundwork for the modern structure of football, that much is true.

I was looking at this a while back for something I can't remember what.

Trace it back through the decades and you probably end up with modern football taking bits and piece from different eras, teams and coaches and combining all those ideas together into what we see today. That's without looking at specific individuals or coaches.

If you want to trace it back to influential coaches.

Now people can say Pep and Spain, Pep and Spains ideas come from Cruyff, Cruyff's ideas came from Rinus Michels, Rinus Michels ideas came from Jack Reynolds. Jack Reynolds was an Englishman.

Hungary's team of "total football" was also heavily influenced by another Englishman James Hogan, who is widely regarded as one of the most pioneering football coaches in history. He took his ideas from another Englishman called Harry Bradshaw. Harry Bradshaw took his ideas from a form of combination football he took from Scotland, this was invented in England.



So the answer is of course England.
 
Fortitude said:
Fair answer. Where would we be without 4-man backlines, in particular?
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With Hungary, it's a lot more than 4-man backlines. Somebody quite rightly mentions Hogan as an influence behind Hungary's interchanging positional play, but it was their rampant success with it that directly led to Dutch total football.

They were, as you allude to, also the precursor to the 442 which arguably remains the most popular defensive shape in football even today at all levels. Zonal marking pretty much started with them too due to their interchangeability. On top of that, the importance of a core of players used to playing together was never that pronounced until the Magic Magyars. Team chemistry and automatisms are now almost taken for granted.

As for Brazil, they also really triumphed the 442 (although it could easily be called a 424, as I think it was called at the time, or even a 4231, which is everywhere). But more than that, it was flair and ingenuity that helped popularise the sport to such an extent, and Brazil have historically had that in spades. Sadly Brazil are more like a decent European side than a great South American one in recent decades, but their influence is clear.

England is a boring answer. Spain doesn't feel like a good one either, so I'm sticking with Hungary and Brazil.
 
Spain had the biggest tactical influence on the game after the Netherlands, followed by Germany and Italy I'd say. Brazil also deserves a mention because of Diniz' relationism. It has already been implemented by European coaches with great success, for instance Xabi Alonso and Thiago Motta.

England probably has the biggest influence in terms of football culture, media and economy but not so mach from a tactical perspective.
 
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