a

Waz

Guest
I have followed Utd since 74 and in that time they have given me great pleasure.Every kid around me supported Liverpool cus they won everything then.
I waited,along with a lot of supporters for the glory days to return,(I never knew the old glory days too young)now we have them back again.I don`t want to return to the dark old days of the odd FA Cup win and no titles.That is why I believe that Fergie should(more than likely does)look at Real and see how they do it.They have skill and passion in abundance(like us)but they are that little bit above us,that little edge,you know what i mean.
That is why Fergie grabbed Veron when he could and in respect i`m glad because its a step forward.I feel though you have to make a choice,the old way or the new way.Keanes kicking ,screaming in yer face way or the more subtle,skilful Veron(Scholes)way.I don`t think you can have both.This is why Utd have got the Portugese coach in,to teach the kids this continetal way.
Ever since the Utd players went charging up to that poor old ref,with Keane leading the way Utd have lost their way.With the players holding back they don`t play the same.
Fergie should let Keane step back abit and let Scholes and Veron play the middle with Beckham moving inside more often.European football as you all know is a different kettle of fish to the PL.Arsenal have now found that balance,you don`t see Vieria charging around like a headless chicken ,kicking and punching everything in sight.
Arsenal are turning into a very good side,using the same style that Fergie is now going to employ at Utd.
Watch Real,Arsenal and Bayern they all control the game no rushing,time,time on the ball,its a pleasure to watch.
Fergie will bring in the new style and then its read em and weep.


But i`ll always support the Utd what ever happens.Just hope i don`t have to wait so long again thats all.

Redwaz
 
:confused:

Agreed, signing Veron was a major step forward for any English club and seems to be evidence of Fergie trying to take United on to the 'other level' he as always referred to.

But Arsenal have one of the worst disciplinary records in the league and play a style of attacking football that is all about pace. Bayern play a sytle of football that is all about control, pressure and disciple. Real play the game in a very free-flowing skillful (almost Brazillian) style. The three clubs play very different styles of football. So I don't see the comparison.

The subtext to what you are saying is that United don't play a skillful game, I'd love to know what everyone in the cafe thinks about that?

But I think the real point of your post is that you have an intense dislike for Roy Keane. Every post I have read from you Waz has slagged Keano off. I'm tired of it. Change the record. :(
 
Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong> :confused:

But I think the real point of your post is that you have an intense dislike for Roy Keane. Every post I have read from you Waz has slagged Keano off. I'm tired of it. Change the record. :( </strong><hr></blockquote>

agreed. thats the impression i get from his posts too.
Click to expand...
 
Its true i don`t like him.

But i`ll change the record now though.
 
Why is this topic called "a"?
 
Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>Its true i don`t like him.

But i`ll change the record now though.</strong><hr></blockquote>

it's your opinon and i respect that. Since you have supported manchester united since 74 which captain do you think led the team properly.

For me it has to mean Keane, his high standards lets the other players know that they have to constantly play at there best, culminating in us having such great success, no other team(within the same period of time) has ever dominated like we have and IMO it is because of his and SAF great DESIRE and hunger for success, i am not saying he is the only one, i am just singling him out because to me he has the great appetite thats hard to come by. Robbo was Brilliant but Surely Keane's style can't be that terrible, He has the Trophies and Success to prove otherwise.

IMO we would never have won that Treble if Roy Keane wasn't playing for us. His performance against Juventus in that second game was amazing.
Click to expand...
 
Don`t get me wrong Keane has brought Utd untold passion,fire,push (along with trophies!!)its just it seems that Keane is going over the line abit to often now.
I always felt that as a Captain of a team,whatever team from the under 10`s to the Brazilian team you stand for what that team wants,i.e if its kicking ,mauling,high tackles and retaliation YOU HAVE LEEDS 1970`S ,but then you have the Bobby Moore type winner of the World Cup 1966.Both methods work but i would rather have Bobby Moore than Roy Keane thats all.
I feel Keane would like not having the extra burden of Captaincy and could then just worry about himself and the the team.You know i would like Beckham as Captain and in the middle as recently quoted by Sven himself.
All i want for Utd is success but not at any price.


Utd forever.
Redwaz
 
So Waz implicit in what you are saying is that this United team stands for kicking, mauling etc. You make comparisons with Arsenal, Bayern and Real all to try and make snide comments about Roy Keane.

Do you really think United's style of play is unattractive? Do you really aspire to United playing more like the three other teams you mentioned? As I said before (and as you failed to answer) the subtext is that you feel United lack the skill that the three other teams play.

If you don't agree with how I've interpreted your post then go back and read your original post.

If you don't like how this United side play (most of whom are treble winners) then go and support Arsenal, Real or Bayern.
 
I have major concerns about Keane too. BUT you have to respect a) what Keane has led us to achieve and b) SAF's decision to back him and state that he'd love a 11 Keane's in his team.

When Man Utd are flying and confident there's no finer attacking team in the land. And that includes Arse - Granted they have improved tremendously and deserved the title last year - but Man Utd still set the standards in the Prem.

Everyone's concerned about the stuttering start we've made in our opening games. We played some nice stuff but it's not clicking yet.

'When' we put Chelsea to the sword on Friday confidence will return and the pessimistic mood on this forum will replaced by an altogether cheerer bunch - and that's an order ;)

So says the Razor!

<img src="graemlins/keano.gif" border="0" alt="[Keano]" />
 
Waz - it was just one game and that too against Birmingham. No doubt Arsenal looked fantastic, but we have been playing equally as well if not better for the last decade. Arsenal have had a settled system of playing for 2 or 3 years - we just have to find one that works for us. I am sure we will be excellent once Fergie gets things right. My favourite captain has to be Bryan Robson. He had everything required of a captain especially total respect from his team. Roy Keane would have be a close second in my books until this year. IMO he was wrong with regds to the public criticism of his teammates as well as the Alfie issue though I still consider him the driving force in our team.
 
Rory7,
United used to intimdate other teams and officals alike,which is good,as long as its with skill,power and flair,not punch your lights out or kick your kneecap in to tomorrow.
Ever since that day all the players stormed up to that poor Ref that day,and after all the shit that followed,SAF told his players to cool it,the team aren`t the same.Why?because Keane doesn`t play that way,he is a in yer face player and for the top teams in the world NOW you can`t do that,you get sent off and your team will undoubtly lose.
Keane i feel should step a side a let Beckham control the reins.
You can see how he has grown up in to a good pro.
Remember that Referee incident i spoke about earlier Beckham was right behind Keane balling and mouthing along with Keane,but when Keane "lost it"with Shearer it was Beckham who held him back.See the change? The man is "a man".

Every team this season will now go out of their way to "wind up"Keane and we will all sit here watching him get sent off.NO doubt about it.
Lastly i feel the Utd way of playing isn`t unattractive,but for Premier matches against West Ham etc its fine and does the job but against Real its a different kettle of fish and this my friend is why SAF will change things soon.

Redwaz
P.S Rory7 do you think we dominate Europe?
If the answer is yes than you are mad.
If no how do we change it to dominate.
 
Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>I have followed Utd since 74 and in that time they have given me great pleasure.Every kid around me supported Liverpool cus they won everything then.
I waited,along with a lot of supporters for the glory days to return,(I never knew the old glory days too young)now we have them back again.I don`t want to return to the dark old days of the odd FA Cup win and no titles.That is why I believe that Fergie should(more than likely does)look at Real and see how they do it.They have skill and passion in abundance(like us)but they are that little bit above us,that little edge,you know what i mean.
That is why Fergie grabbed Veron when he could and in respect i`m glad because its a step forward.I feel though you have to make a choice,the old way or the new way.Keanes kicking ,screaming in yer face way or the more subtle,skilful Veron(Scholes)way.I don`t think you can have both.This is why Utd have got the Portugese coach in,to teach the kids this continetal way.
Ever since the Utd players went charging up to that poor old ref,with Keane leading the way Utd have lost their way.With the players holding back they don`t play the same.
Fergie should let Keane step back abit and let Scholes and Veron play the middle with Beckham moving inside more often.European football as you all know is a different kettle of fish to the PL.Arsenal have now found that balance,you don`t see Vieria charging around like a headless chicken ,kicking and punching everything in sight.
Arsenal are turning into a very good side,using the same style that Fergie is now going to employ at Utd.
Watch Real,Arsenal and Bayern they all control the game no rushing,time,time on the ball,its a pleasure to watch.
Fergie will bring in the new style and then its read em and weep.


But i`ll always support the Utd what ever happens.Just hope i don`t have to wait so long again thats all.

Redwaz</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you have such a problem with their style of play and their best player and captain then supprt someone else.

Supported them since 74 my arse. 'Fans' like you are ruining the club.
Click to expand...
 
Question are Utd:

Premier League Champions or runners up?
European Champions?
When was the last Trophy we won?
Did we have to qualify for Europe?
And lastly have we?

Like Sven says Beckham inside and Captain.Give Keane the freedom.
 
Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>
P.S Rory7 do you think we dominate Europe?
If the answer is yes than you are mad.
If no how do we change it to dominate.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry Waz, I just don't buy your theory that Fergie telling Keane and the lads to cool it has contributed to us playing poorly. The fact is that since that incident we went on to win two premiership titles so they must have been doing something right.

If we follow your logic then before the ref chasing incident United were a bunch of out of control hooligans and aren't the same ever since. To extend that thinking you are basically saying that the treble winning side was playing a style of football that was akin to kick and rush. All of this theory is based around the premise that Keano is all blood and guts with no technique or intelligence.

I agree that Beckham has matured. But I just don't buy your argument that putting Keano to one side and letting, what I guess you would see as, the more cultured players lead will make any bit of difference.

I'm all to aware that we haven't dominated Europe. So is SAF. Thats why he has tried things like the 4-5-1 formation last year. But to blame our failure in Europe on Roy Keane or the team not being allowed to play with full on Roy Keane passion just doesn't add up.

Things haven't been on the decline since that day against Andy D'Urso. We've won two premierships. Were knocked out of the Champs League by eventual winner Real and Bayern in 00 and 01. And narrowly missed out on the final last year.

Yes we haven't dominated Europe. But United continue (hopefully) to be a major power in European football and we have been there or there abouts.

And in any case, how many teams can dominate the champs league? Usually only one at a time. I think most people would agree that with three wins since 98 Real are the dominate force. Its not that easy to win and there is a fine line between success and failure. United aren't that far off. So why rip up the blueprint for our success now?
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Lynott:
<strong>

If you have such a problem with their style of play and their best player and captain then supprt someone else.

Supported them since 74 my arse. 'Fans' like you are ruining the club.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Bollocks.

Waz is giving his opinion and he's entitled to it.

From what I've read it's constructive enough even tho I don't agree with some of what he's said.

Just because you don't agree with him doesn't entitle you to dispute his support since 1974.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Waz:
<strong> Like Sven says Beckham inside and Captain.Give Keane the freedom.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Now we are getting closer to the real point.
Agreed, Keane should have more freedom to get forward. He is wasted as simply a defensive midfielder. I've been saying that for years. As a young player at Forest he scored plenty of goals and I think he is likely to contribute greatly to driving the team forward.

And seriously Waz, why is this thread called a?
;)
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Lynott:
<strong>

If you have such a problem with their style of play and their best player and captain then supprt someone else.

Supported them since 74 my arse. 'Fans' like you are ruining the club.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Where do you get off?? Your an insult to the Club with a statement like that.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by bazalini:
<strong>

Where do you get off?? Your an insult to the Club with a statement like that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I wasn't addressing you, you two faced prick. I thought you'd be in here any chance to get a dig in at Keane. The guy - Waz, spent the first paragraph putting Uniteds 'failures' and poor style of play(which again is bollocks) down to Keane. Makes me fecking sick. I'm glad to see he completely U-turned on his initial statement to suggest Keane should be given more freedom.

That's where I get off!
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Lynott:
<strong>

I wasn't addressing you, you two faced prick.</strong><hr></blockquote>


You'd want to try giving yourself a Hand Job to relieve that Tension. Any sign of Rory yet to back yourself up?
Click to expand...
 
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> @baz
 
Originally posted by blythy:
<strong> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> @baz</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

Just waiting
Click to expand...
 
I love the banter!!
All good clean fun.
Can understand why Lynott likes Keane ,he seems to have the same traits.
 
Originally posted by bazalini:
<strong> You'd want to try giving yourself a Hand Job to relieve that Tension. Any sign of Rory yet to back yourself up?</strong><hr></blockquote>

:eek: I'm not going to give anyone a hand job :eek:

I agree with everything Waz and Baz think alright. <img src="graemlins/nervous.gif" border="0" alt="[Nervous]" /> I'll never prove Waz wrong again ;)
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.