A new leader

[Rory 7]

All of the tossers who've been slagging off Gary Neville for Saturday need not bother reading this. I have no respect for one word they have to say.

IMO the most obvious thing lacking in our game on Saturday was a leader on the pitch. Keano is the obvious example and that is why he is so important. Bex has done alright and I think he would have made a difference on Saturday. But surely out of the rest of the squad there should be someone who can truly lead by example. When we were at our lowest ebb at Maine Road on Saturday there didn't seem to be any true leader stepping forward to lift the teams heads. We need another leader in the Keane mould. Someone who commands the respect of everyone in the squad. You would hope that Larry, Seba and Giggs could take on this role but it seems that they are just not cut out for it.

When you look at most other teams there are always two or three seasoned pro's who can rally the troops. The Arse have Viera, Keown and Campbell. Pool have Hypia, Hamman and even young Gerrard.

The key point is that there are times when someone needs to step forward and remind the 'superstars' that they play for each other. No one bar Keane (and maybe Bex) does that often enough hence the disjointed dispirited display we had on Saturday.

IMO this has to be Fergie's number one priority when strengthening the squad. A talisman, someone who will give players making sloppy passes and not tracking back a bollicking. Its a simple solution but one that really needs to happen.

 

[the reporter]

Easier said than done. Who do you suggest then?

 

[Rory 7]

I don't know. You're right it is easier said than done. When Keane comes back a lot will be solved. But in the meantime Fergie should be having a word in the ear of Larry or Rio or someone about how important a bit of leadership is on the pitch.

For example, once we fell three one behind I thought Rio and/or Larry should have been pushed right up on the City midfield. Rio should have been busting a gut to get up an down the pitch and force our midfield to play further. That would be leadership. That's what Bruce and Pallister would have done. So maybe the new leader has to emerge from within the current squad.

 

[mickyg]

Originally posted by the reporter:
<strong>Easier said than done. Who do you suggest then?</strong><hr></blockquote>

gary neville

 

[Rory 7]

Agreed Gary Neville is leadership material.
But he had an off-day to say the least on Saturday. It happens. Surely someone else should be able to take over the role of leader. Once Gary was subbed do you really think any of the remaining eleven took over leadership responsibilities? I don't.

 

[RUnited]

Rory 7,

i think we may be pinning too much hope on the return of Roy Keane.. i think it won't be that simple..

i agree we have to think of an alternative.. someone who can do keane's job when keane is not here.. if he gets injured again then we'll again be in trouble..

let's also not forget, keane is 31 and has been crazy enough to have suggested he wanted to retire.. so i think at best we will have him with us no more than 2-3 more years..

we need to build someone to take over.. rather than bringing in someone new.. maybe rio?

 

[the reporter]

Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>Rio and/or Larry should have been pushed right up on the City midfield. </strong><hr></blockquote>

But surely that would have given City an even great threat via the pace of Anelka?

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>Rory 7,

i think we may be pinning too much hope on the return of Roy Keane.. i think it won't be that simple..

i agree we have to think of an alternative.. someone who can do keane's job when keane is not here.. if he gets injured again then we'll again be in trouble..

let's also not forget, keane is 31 and has been crazy enough to have suggested he wanted to retire.. so i think at best we will have him with us no more than 2-3 more years..

we need to build someone to take over.. rather than bringing in someone new.. maybe rio?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sometimes I wish we had 11 Keano's - but I think we do need one other anyway - who is going to replace Keane when he's injured, he retires or goes to Celtic? I can't think of anyone other than Vieira who would be suitable - and we're not going to get Vieira. Are there any young players out there in this mould that I don't know of?

 

[Lynott]

Originally posted by Rory 7:
<strong>Agreed Gary Neville is leadership material.
But he had an off-day to say the least on Saturday. It happens. Surely someone else should be able to take over the role of leader. Once Gary was subbed do you really think any of the remaining eleven took over leadership responsibilities? I don't.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was surprised at Ruud to be honest. I really expected him to be more of a driving force in situations like that. He has been in the past.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Sometimes I wish we had 11 Keano's - but I think we do need one other anyway - who is going to replace Keane when he's injured, he retires or goes to Celtic? I can't think of anyone other than Vieira who would be suitable - and we're not going to get Vieira. Are there any young players out there in this mould that I don't know of?</strong><hr></blockquote>


difficult question for someone like me!


but, i think we could get away with Butt in place of Keane with Rio slowly taking the captaincy, i think he's got the leadership abilities. and our fans seem to just love him. then maybe develop michael stewart to eventually become butt's replacement.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>


difficult question for someone like me!


but, i think we could get away with Butt in place of Keane with Rio slowly taking the captaincy, i think he's got the leadership abilities. and our fans seem to just love him. then maybe develop michael stewart to eventually become butt's replacement.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've thought that too, but I'm not sure that will make us world beaters, very good yes, but not sure about able to beat Arsenal.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
Sometimes I wish we had 11 Keano's - but I think we do need one other anyway - who is going to replace Keane when he's injured, he retires or goes to Celtic? I can't think of anyone other than Vieira who would be suitable - and we're not going to get Vieira. Are there any young players out there in this mould that I don't know of?</strong><hr></blockquote>

RVDV would be a great buy.

he's got the lot.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

RVDV would be a great buy.

he's got the lot.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've yet to see him, is he a tough tackler? Can he dominate a midfield?

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

RVDV would be a great buy.

he's got the lot.</strong><hr></blockquote>

who's RVDV?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
I've yet to see him, is he a tough tackler? Can he dominate a midfield?</strong><hr></blockquote>


people think he's the new cruyff...but from what i've seen he's more like a Davids..

excellent potential.


Runited:

Rafael Van der Vaart

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
I've thought that too, but I'm not sure that will make us world beaters, very good yes, but not sure about able to beat Arsenal.</strong><hr></blockquote>

you never know.. i do trust Butt to be world class.. atleast better than gerard at the moment.. give him a year as a first team player he can be on Viera's level. He'll still be 28-29 by that time.. can lead the midfield for 3-4 more years.. plenty of time for us to look for another replacement.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


people think he's the new cruyff...but from what i've seen he's more like a Davids..

</strong><hr></blockquote>


he looked seriously skinny from what i saw.. maybe i was wrong.. anyhow, i'd still like to see him make his runs down the flanks or play behind the forwards.. would hate to see this talent by wasted playing the Keane role for us.

 

[Neil Thomson]

How old is Makelele?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>


he looked seriously skinny from what i saw.. maybe i was wrong.. anyhow, i'd still like to see him make his runs down the flanks or play behind the forwards.. would hate to see this talent by wasted playing the Keane role for us.</strong><hr></blockquote>

nah... i think he'd make a great CM.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

you never know.. i do trust Butt to be world class.. atleast better than gerard at the moment.. give him a year as a first team player he can be on Viera's level. He'll still be 28-29 by that time.. can lead the midfield for 3-4 more years.. plenty of time for us to look for another replacement.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Butt?


nah he'll never be world class...

he's a good solid defensive medfielder... i doubt he'll ever be a box to box like Keano or Paddy.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

nah... i think he'd make a great CM.</strong><hr></blockquote>

umm.. so now we have to keep looking for replacements on the wings? i doubt Giggs can maintain his level of plays for more than 2 more years.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


Butt?


nah he'll never be world class...

he's a good solid defensive medfielder... i doubt he'll ever be a box to box like Keano or Paddy.</strong><hr></blockquote>

forgive my little knowledge of nicknames.. who's Paddy?

and Butt has shown class IMO.. he needs a world class partner in midfield.. but he's good enough.. what about RVDV and Butt in midfield? strong enough? we could utilize RVDV ability in distributing and use Butt to be the ball winner. good plans IMHO.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

umm.. so now we have to keep looking for replacements on the wings? i doubt Giggs can maintain his level of plays for more than 2 more years.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i;d get Joaquin for the right, and Duff for the left.


Vicente's meant to have alot of potential n'all...but i've not seen him play much.

 

[Neil Thomson]

I think Scholes has to be a first choice central midfielder for us. Its who to partner him with there when Keane is out. Butt is the obvious choice, but we need one more, that will replace Keane long term - someone young. Maybe van der Vaart is a good option, but there certainly aren't many possibilities - these types of players are very rare. I can't remember many like this from the World Cup certainly.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>I think Scholes has to be a first choice central midfielder for us. Its who to partner him with there when Keane is out. Butt is the obvious choice, but we need one more, that will replace Keane long term - someone young. Maybe van der Vaart is a good option, but there certainly aren't many possibilities - these types of players are very rare. I can't remember many like this from the World Cup certainly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i do not remember names.. but i think both PSV and Ajax have very very good CM in the character of Keane and Viera.. someone should confirm this though.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

forgive my little knowledge of nicknames.. who's Paddy?

and Butt has shown class IMO.. he needs a world class partner in midfield.. but he's good enough.. what about RVDV and Butt in midfield? strong enough? we could utilize RVDV ability in distributing and use Butt to be the ball winner. good plans IMHO.</strong><hr></blockquote>


that could work.....

however, keano will be around for a couple of more years.


paddy = patrick vieira

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>


that could work.....

however, keano is still around for a couple of more years.


paddy = patrick vieira</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's true.. it'll probably be too late for Butt to replace him as a first team player by the time keane quits.. butt will probably be like 30. hmm.. better start our thinkin now then.

 

[reelworld]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

i do not remember names.. but i think both PSV and Ajax have very very good CM in the character of Keane and Viera.. someone should confirm this though.</strong><hr></blockquote>


PSV have Van Bommel who's an outstanding talent IMO.
I don't know about Ajax though..

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by reelworld:
<strong>


PSV have Van Bommel who's an outstanding talent IMO.
I don't know about Ajax though..</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's it, that's the one i was talkin about.. Van Bommel will be a big star.. i think he's also a box to box player like keane and viera.. could be a good replacement for us in the long run.

 

[reelworld]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

that's it, that's the one i was talkin about.. Van Bommel will be a big star.. i think he's also a box to box player like keane and viera.. could be a good replacement for us in the long run.</strong><hr></blockquote>

the thing is, he's not young. I think he's 28 this year. I would prefer someone around 23-24 years old like Carrick from West Ham.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by reelworld:
<strong>

the thing is, he's not young. I think he's 28 this year. I would prefer someone around 23-24 years old like Carrick from West Ham.</strong><hr></blockquote>

he is? that's not possible.. i thought he was only 24 or 25?

 

[reelworld]

Originally posted by RUnited:
<strong>

he is? that's not possible.. i thought he was only 24 or 25?</strong><hr></blockquote>

yeah sorry, my mistake, he's 25 alright..
I corrected it in your thread to Neil..

 

[Rory 7]

I see this thread has turned into 'who will replace Keane in central midfield?'. That's not really the point that I was trying to make. Surely a United midfield of Giggs, Scholes, Butt and Beckham would be as strong as any other Premiership team.

The real point I'm getting at is where else on the pitch (from the current squad) are the leaders? Reporters earlier point is right about Rio/Larry being afraid to push up against Anelka on Saturday. But surely Rio and Larry should have displayed more leadership and drive than they did?

We looked like a team with no direction, no one was going around to get the lads to lift the lads heads and no one was giving the lads a bollicking for misplaced passes etc. All this talk about lacking drive is nonsense. We are lacking someone on the pitch to channel what drive exists. When we went 3 -1 down on Saturday someone should have been having a go at the lads. Be it Larry, Rio, Ruud, Ole, Giggs whoever. They should be losing the plot with each other, talking to each other, firing each other up. But we just seem to be this really quiet team where no-one talks to anyone else.

Maybe its too many egos, many its language difficulties. Whatever the reason United really need someone on the pitch who shouts and screams and gives orders. Keano isn't there at the moment so Fergie has to identify someone in the squad who can do that in his absence. Otherwise everytime we struggle in a game too many of our shy softspoken superstars will throw in the towel.

 

[Shaheed]

i think the problem on sat were, most of oyur 'key' plays hadnt played in a manchester derby befroe. Like veron, rvn, rio, larry?..
They certainyl didnt rise to the occasion and i dotn think they knew the importance of this match. They were OUT PASSIONED, OUT THOUGHT, didnt handle the pressure that weell. Hopefully they will all learn a lot from this and come stronger from it. <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" /> <img src="graemlins/devil.gif" border="0" alt="[Devil]" />