70s Fantasy Draft - Rood v Snow

[Brwned]

Team Rood

TEAM ROOD

Shay Given: Ireland’s most capped player and still one of the best keepers in England.
2 time PL Team Of The Year (‘02&’06).

Roberto Carlos: The best full back in this draft by far and arguably the greatest full back of all time. Known for both defensive and attacking brilliance plus legendary dead ball specialist
UEFA Defender OTY ‘02 / World Cup Allstar Team ‘98&’02

Jaime Carragher: Always Mr.Dependable when called upon by club and country
PL TOTY '06 / CL Winner and Runner Up / Premier League = feck ALL

William Gallas: Defensive rock for Chelsea, Arsenal and France for many years – always known as a strong, speedy defender who can deal with the quickest of attackers.
2 time PL TOTY (‘03&’06) / 2 x PL Winner

Stephen Carr: His peak was at the start of his career with Spurs, knows for his tireless running for both attacking and defensive duties on the right side of the pitch.
2 time PL TOTY ‘01&’03

Pep Guardiola:He is the blueprint for all Barca’s current success; Xavi, Iniesta and Fàbregas have all stated that he was their role model and hero.
Euro Team Of The Tournament 1992 & 2000 / 6 x La Liga / 2 x Euro Cups etc

Dino Baggio: Will look to break up the opposition in midfielder, big game player who often saved his goals for the biggest stage and got his name on the scoresheet in two UEFA finals and also in the World Cup. Was a regular for the national team ahead of the likes of Donadoni and Albertini in their prime.
3 times UEFA Cup Winner / WC'94 Runner Up.

Bernd Schneider: Earned the nickname "The White Brazilian" for his dribbling and passing skills as well as his dead ball accuracy. A vital part of teams that reached World Cup and Champions League Finals.
Rudi Völler said: "Bernd was a great footballer, who produced magic for Germany and Leverkusen…”

Rivaldo: One of the greatest players of all time, won everything from World Cup to Champions League to Ballon D’or, plus has an award that no other player in this draft can claim, Uzbek League Top Scorer 2009! An unstoppable attacking player who could win games all on his own.

Michael Owen: Awarded the Ballon D’or in 2001, at his peak his movement was unrivaled and he was considered the deadliest finisher on the planet. Scored one of the all time greatest World Cup goals.
Twice winner of the PL Golden Boot, he was also selected in the PL Team Of The Decade.

Diego Milito A prolific and consistent center-forward, statistically averaged just over a goal every two appearances. Pivotal in Inter's recent treble winning season and his two goals in the Champions League Final gave him international recognition as one of the world's most effective front men.
Serie A and UEFA Footballer Of The Year 2010. Italian and Champions League Winner etc.

Tactics:
My team features not one but two Ballon D'or winners and when we are talking about players at their peak, there is no greater honour. Add to that a sack full of World Cup, European and domestic medals plus a plethora of individual honours spread all around my legendary players.
We set up with a midfield diamond involving Guardiola holding to protect the already strong central defensive partnership of Gallas and Carragher. My fullbacks will both be encouraged to get forward to exploit the space behind my opponents wide players.

My star player is Rivaldo and I have given him a free role behind the deadly strike force where he can provide both goals and assists. Baggio and Schneider are complete midfielders who will add value to both the defensive and creative side of the team.

Owen will be instructeded to hang off the shoulder of the last defender and use his speed to get in behind while Milito keeps them busy in the air - there are sure to be chances created by the likes of Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos and Schneider and these two only need a few half chances to convert to a bag full of goals.

SUB: Roberto Di Matteo

Snow

Substitute: Nicholas Anelka

I'm going for a very solid 4-2-3-1 formation that should be able to deal with any variation of 4-4-2.

If you have average full backs then you'll not want to play me. Threat from outside the box is as much as inside it. Lampard and Frings are both quite capable of shooting with great power. Even Petit has that ability.

My defense is composed of great veterans in both Champions and domestic league with their respected clubs as well as on the international stage.

Dida: Solid goalkeeper in his prime (which is all that matters) and voted the best goalkeeper in Europe when AC Milan won them CL in 2005. Highly successful in Brazil before he came to Europe and added to his trophy cabinet.

Phil Neville: Reliable player and was our very own John O'Shea before John O'Shea became John O'Shea. I use him at right back where I feel he's at his best. Did well at United and has become the captain of Everton.

Samuel Kuffour: Played many years in the heart of the Bayern Munchen defense along with Thomas Linke. They made up the best defensive pair in the Bundesliga and won the CL shortly after the famous final in '99. 2 times African player of the year (runner up) and the Ashford & Simpson song solid could well be a description for his defensive capabilities

Jens Nowotny: Leverkusen were a European powerhouse for two years with the likes of Nowotny and Ramelow in defense, Ballack and Ze Roberto in midfield. They're the reason for the teams almost success in every stage. Masters of runner-upery but that was not the defenses fault. Only player in my team who's not won a major trophy

Gabriel Heinze: He was purchased to United for being good at football. He certainly showed that and was voted our best player in the 04/05 season. A fan favorite before he became 2nd fiddle after a long term injury. But he moved on an went on to Real Madrid and then Marseille, picking up some trophies along the way. A veteran of every stage of football like his other defensive members.

Emmanuel Petit: He paired up with Vieira and won the WC and PL but before that he captained Monaco to a league title. His midfield prowess were rivaled only by his partner and our own midfield at the time and made for heated battles.

Torsten Frings: With Frings I've got a player with great vision and passing, hard tackling and a great shooter. He's like a mix between Pirlo and a regular German defensive midfielder. Sporting the hair, shooting and passing of Pirlo with the tackling, work rate and nationality of a German. Great fit next to Petit.

Luis Figo: I can't describe him properly without filling the page. Best player in the world in 2001 and one of the best almost his whole career. Not many have more trophies than him and he's achieved it with 3 different clubs. Simply a great great great player.

Frank Lampard: We love to hate him because he's just so damn good at scoring goals. Can't think of many midfielders that rival him in that aspect. An intelligent player who's a model of consistency. He plays in his favorite spot where I'll get the most out of him.

Ryan Giggs: It's Ryan fecking Giggs. Great now at age 38 but remember him in his prime? I certainly do

Patrick Kluivert: At birth him and Ruud decided to share their careers fairly. Patrick burst on to the scene with Ajax, who with their golden generation won it all. In his prime he played alone up front at Barcelona with Rivaldo behind him and that is the role he plays for me. In that role he managed to become the 4th ever top goal scorer for the Catalans (now 6th after Messi and Eto'o) and is still the top goal scorer for the Netherlands. He won the golden boot at Euro 2000 where the Dutch lost in penalties to Italy.

A footballer who's been in an endless search to find himself. On his way he's won a number of league titles in different countries and a CL medal as well. Golden boot winner whilst at Chelsea he's a sub that can come on for any one of players really. Gives me the option of changing into a 4-4-2 with Frings, Petit or Ballack out. I could even play a three man defense and take out Neville if drastic measures are needed. Great bench option.

Footnote:
My team has 50 league medals, 9 CL medals, 1 EC winner and 2 WC winners, 1 Copa America and Libertadores winner and 96 different cup medals which include the Cup Winners Cup, FA Cup, various Super Cups etc.

Player honors they've got plenty of as well.

 

[antohan]

It would be way too easy to settle this one based on the wingers but Rood does have some top quality players there I wouldn't dismiss lightly.

I'll wait and see what his views are on how he will handle that threat and work his way to a win.

 

[Snow]

I've got a very good midfield to handle his and his width comes only from the left that leaves space open for Giggs. So that's no good.

I feel like my team is one of the worst that Rood could come up against.

 

[antohan]

I've got a very good midfield to handle his and his width comes only from the left that leaves space open for Giggs.

Figo you mean, right?

No one would want to come up against Figo and Giggs, surely and it may mean Carlos has to keep quiet.

I feel the key for Rood though will revolve around Guardiola's pinpoint passing and Rivaldo's movement.

Who do you have on Rivaldo?

 

[Red-Indian]

Have to go with Snow. That winger combination would destroy almost any team. Figo on Roberto Carlos will make a real difference.

 

[Rood]

Looks like Im back in the nick of time!

Been offline and missed my first group match but good to see that my boys managed a win in my absence -
TBF this will be a more difficult match up but I am still confident of getting a result due to my star quality plus perfect balance of industy and creativity.

If I had been around then I would have slightly tweaked my tactics to ask Roberto Carlos to focus on defensive duties and keep Figo under wraps, also have the flexibility to push Schneider out to wide right to double up on Giggs. This would be be my plan to neutralise the obvious threat on the flanks and apart from that I do not see much in the opposition that I should be worried about.

Snow's weaknesses are at the back; Phil Neville is a massive weak link at right back for a start (this is supposed to be about players at their peak and he only ever played there as an emergency option, his best years were with Everton as defensive mid or with us at left back) - Nowotny was quite a late pick and never really considered as a world class centre back. And dont get me started on judas Heinze - the epic cnut!
Guardiola will quickly turn defence into attack and then Rivaldo could destroy Snow's defence on his own, plus there is the threat of a lightening quick Michael Owen and powerful Milito to contend with - I just cant see Snow's defence dealing with that.

 

[antohan]

Looks like Im back in the nick of time!

You are probably going into the half time break now. If you want to make those tweaks I suggest you send the notes and preferred formation to Brwned so as to update it for future visitors.

 

[antohan]

I've got a very good midfield to handle his

So... Rood has now thrown the gauntlet. Carlos and Carr will play safe to focus on your wingers. Maybe not good enough to stop them...

But I repeat... Who's picking up Rivaldo?

Third pick in the draft and arguably fully deserved... yet you are just completely ignoring his threat...

Do you seriously expect to get away with that?

 

[Snow]

Looks like Im back in the nick of time!

Been offline and missed my first group match but good to see that my boys managed a win in my absence -
TBF this will be a more difficult match up but I am still confident of getting a result due to my star quality plus perfect balance of industy and creativity.

If I had been around then I would have slightly tweaked my tactics to ask Roberto Carlos to focus on defensive duties and keep Figo under wraps, also have the flexibility to push Schneider out to wide right to double up on Giggs. This would be be my plan to neutralise the obvious threat on the flanks and apart from that I do not see much in the opposition that I should be worried about.

Snow's weaknesses are at the back; Phil Neville is a massive weak link at right back for a start (this is supposed to be about players at their peak and he only ever played there as an emergency option, his best years were with Everton as defensive mid or with us at left back) - Nowotny was quite a late pick and never really considered as a world class centre back. And dont get me started on judas Heinze - the epic cnut!
Guardiola will quickly turn defence into attack and then Rivaldo could destroy Snow's defence on his own, plus there is the threat of a lightening quick Michael Owen and powerful Milito to contend with - I just cant see Snow's defence dealing with that.

Heh. Apart from the flanks there's nothing to worry about? Hmm, how about the biggest midfield goal scorer in the PL ever. 1 more goal and he's the 5th top goal scorer ever in the league and 23 games and he has leveled Speed.
Phil Neville is 8th in PL appearances so that gives me 3 of the top 10. Wouldn't call him a massive weak link and you're wrong to say that he's played mostly in midfield with Everton. He's of course been played in right back the most. It's his preferred position now and always has been.

I think you're also massively underrating what Frings can do. He's not needed to be the main midfielder but at Bremen he always was.

I don't need a single man on Rivaldo. Frings and Petit just do their job. The midfield trio I have are all different and balance each other nicely. I don't think you'll find a more balanced squad in the tournament. There are some teams equally balanced, specifically in group C, but no team that is more balanced.

Mourinho says that with 2 fairly even teams a 4-5-1/4-3-3 beats a 4-4-2, 9 out of 10 times. His arguments are largely backed up by teams in Europe not playing 4-4-2.

 

[antohan]

I don't need a single man on Rivaldo.

You have to be kidding me. You are playing against Guardiola and Rivaldo and you will just leave Rivaldo to roam waiting for Guardiola to place a perfect ball behind you DMs backs. Mental.

I know I don't need to talk up Rivaldo but I'm surprised at how little weight Guardiola seems to carry on here. He spent a decade ripping teams apart playing the likes of Romario, Ronaldo, Luis Enrique, Rivaldo, Anderson, Overmars and Kluivert through on goal. If people are seeing a guy covering the back four here they couldn't be wider off the mark.

His Barca team is a reflection of the player he was, who do you think Xavi et al learnt from? Why do you think the Barca youth system was being run by him and Luis Enrique? They played very similar football back in the 90s and were a joy to watch.

He is probably one of few players you could actually find a brilliant assist compilation on in Youtube (this is Part 2 BTW but it goes straight to the guts, I suggest you also search for Part 1, it's worthy stuff):


You have two DMs to deal with Schneider, Baggio and Rivaldo. And if a CB comes out to pick up Rivaldo it is game on for a ball to Owen, directly or via Milito. Rood can and WILL slaughter you as it stands.

You focus on talking up Neville's appearances and fail to acknowledge that your fullbacks offer bugger all going forward. It does make Giggs and Figo a less daunting prospect if they have no decent attacking fullbacks to overlap with.

But those are your fullbacks, nowt you can do about it. Yet, since Rood has limited width, why not tuck Heinze in and send Phil to man-mark Rivaldo? He will be a lot more use there than as a fullback TBH.

Mourinho says that with 2 fairly even teams a 4-5-1/4-3-3 beats a 4-4-2, 9 out of 10 times. His arguments are largely backed up by teams in Europe not playing 4-4-2.

Nice quote. But I would chop my left bollock off if Mourinho would just leave Rivaldo free to express himself on that basis. Zero chance he would.

 

[Rood]

Phil Neville is 8th in PL appearances so that gives me 3 of the top 10. Wouldn't call him a massive weak link and you're wrong to say that he's played mostly in midfield with Everton. He's of course been played in right back the most. It's his preferred position now and always has been.

It is a shame to say it as he is a good bloke but Phil Neville is easily the weakest player on the pitch in this game - if it wasnt for United bias then he would never even be close to consideration in something like this. We are talking about players at their PEAK, so number of appearances and longevity is completely irrelevant in that context.
Plus it is quite simply wrong to say that RB has always been his prefered position, his brief time as an England internation must be considered his peak at that was always at left back - he is out of position here and is going to get raped by Rivaldo, Owen et al.

I don't need a single man on Rivaldo.

You are right, you would need at least 2 to effectively deal with him - we are talking about one of the greatest players of all time who at his peak could win matches on his own.
For anyone of the younger generation who didnt see him in his prime here is an article worth reading:
Football: On Second Thoughts: Rob Smyth says Rivaldo was the best player since Maradona | Football | guardian.co.uk

 

[DanNistelrooy]

Rood for me. Rivaldo providing for Owen, who at his peak could finish the slightest of chances and Milito will be too much for Snow's defence I feel.

Not much between the 2 though

 

[Annihilate Now!]

It is a shame to say it as he is a good bloke but Phil Neville is easily the weakest player on the pitch in this game - if it wasnt for United bias then he would never even be close to consideration in something like this. We are talking about players at their PEAK, so number of appearances and longevity is completely irrelevant in that context.
Plus it is quite simply wrong to say that RB has always been his prefered position, his brief time as an England internation must be considered his peak at that was always at left back - he is out of position here and is going to get raped by Rivaldo, Owen et al.

Not when Stephen Carr is on the same pitch...

Anyway this one is Snow all the way for me. Figo, Giggs and Kluivert (whose the best striker on the pitch by a distance in my humble opinion) would tear that defence apart for my money. Lampard's late runs will also reap plenty of rewards, and the defensive shield of Petit AND Frings will shore up that backline considerably.

 

[Rood]

You are probably going into the half time break now. If you want to make those tweaks I suggest you send the notes and preferred formation to Brwned so as to update it for future visitors.

Ok this is my tweaked formation - designed to offer greater protection to Snow's wide threat

You have to be kidding me. You are playing against Guardiola and Rivaldo and you will just leave Rivaldo to roam waiting for Guardiola to place a perfect ball behind you DMs backs. Mental.

I know I don't need to talk up Rivaldo but I'm surprised at how little weight Guardiola seems to carry on here. He spent a decade ripping teams apart playing the likes of Romario, Ronaldo, Luis Enrique, Rivaldo, Anderson, Overmars and Kluivert through on goal. If people are seeing a guy covering the back four here they couldn't be wider off the mark.

His Barca team is a reflection of the player he was, who do you think Xavi et al learnt from? Why do you think the Barca youth system was being run by him and Luis Enrique? They played very similar football back in the 90s and were a joy to watch.

He is probably one of few players you could actually find a brilliant assist compilation on in Youtube (this is Part 2 BTW but it goes straight to the guts, I suggest you also search for Part 1, it's worthy stuff):


You have two DMs to deal with Schneider, Baggio and Rivaldo. And if a CB comes out to pick up Rivaldo it is game on for a ball to Owen, directly or via Milito. Rood can and WILL slaughter you as it stands.

Couldnt have said it better by myself but it is a shame the voters dont seem to realise this - I guess voters arent looking much past Snow's front 4 which does look good on paper TBF, but there are clear weaknesses behind that.

I think many on here only properly know Guardiola as a manager and never saw him play so he is vastly under rated as the midfield maestro that he was in his prime - the service from him to Rivaldo and then onto my strikers would be the key to my team getting the goals.

 

[Rood]

Not when Stephen Carr is on the same pitch...

Do you realise that this is based on players at their PEAK?
Carr was voted BEST RIGHT BACK IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE IN BOTH 2001 AND 2003 - phil neville never got close to any of these teams so that is a ridiculous comment
PFA Team of the Year - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shame if people arent voting on the correct basis, big difference in evaluating players over their whole careers and at their peak - I did worry that might happen.

 

[Gio]

Tricky one to call. Both teams have weak links (Neville, Carr, the chances of Figo working back to help Neville being slim), but some great balance in midfield.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Do you realise that this is based on players at their PEAK?
Carr was voted BEST RIGHT BACK IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE IN BOTH 2001 AND 2003 - phil neville never got close to any of these teams so that is a ridiculous comment

Shame if people arent voting on the correct basis - I did worry that might happen.

feck off is it, Stephen Carr was an average as sin defending who had 2 or 3 decent seasons, playing for incredibly average Spurs and Newcastle teams team. The only reason he won in those years was because for some reason Gary Neville didn't win. Remember, this was a time where there was pretty much no good Right Backs in the league, except for Gary Neville, so anyone doing anything remotely decent in that position was bound to get noticed.

Phil Neville on the other hand was playing for the Champions of England, playing in a range of positions, and playing his part in us winning multiple trophies along the way. You do not play 263 games for Manchester United if you are not a very very good footballer... He might never have set the world on fire, he may not have been as good as his brother (the finest right back in Premiership history might I add) but was an extremely solid player, and a far better player then Stephen bloody Carr... even at his peak.

 

[Rood]

Kluivert (whose the best striker on the pitch by a distance in my humble opinion)

Again this just shows that you arent voting based on players at their peak - Owen won the Ballon D'or at his peak, Kluivert never came close.

Up to you to decide how to vote I suppose but shame that you cant grasp the concept of players at their peak.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Again this just shows that you arent voting based on players at their peak - Owen won the Ballon D'or at his peak, Kluivert never came close.

Well I would have to be basing it on players at there peak to say such a thing about Patrick Kluivert. His career tailed off spectacularly, and ne never fulfilled the immense promise he should in his youth (a bit like Michael Owen you could possibly say) but at his peak (in his younger years at Ajax, and a little bit at Barcalona) he was an absolute beast. He won scored the winning goal in the Champions League final against Milan at 17! Which prompted him to be one of most wanted striker in Europe.

 

[kps88]

Carr's directly up against one of the greatest left wingers of all time! Neville doesn't have anyone directly against him so, in that sense, I'd say Carr's more of a liability here for me.

 

[Rood]

Carr's directly up against one of the greatest left wingers of all time! Neville doesn't have anyone directly against him so, in that sense, I'd say Carr's more of a liability here for me.

That's a fair comment, unlike the gibberish being spouted above - in fact I could send Rivaldo to directly target the weaker right side (no protection from Figo), he is in a free role anyway so will go wherever he gets most of the ball to feed the strikers.

 

[Gio]

Carr's directly up against one of the greatest left wingers of all time! Neville doesn't have anyone directly against him so, in that sense, I'd say Carr's more of a liability here for me.

Aye, although given Rivaldo's free role and the inclination of Carlos to come forward, that could leave Neville badly exposed.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

That's a fair comment, unlike the gibberish being spouted above - in fact I could send Rivaldo to directly target the weaker right side (no protection from Figo), he is in a free role anyway so will go wherever he gets most of the ball to feed the strikers.

Gibberish? Your pomposity is staggering. You're badly neglecting two crucial things about the game of football 1) It's largely based on opinion and in-turn 2) It's not at all an outlandish opinion to think that Phil Neville at his peak was a better footballer then Stephen Carr at his peak... in fact, I would take a wager that that would be a popular opinion amongst a lot of football fans.

It's not as if I'm saying Stephen Carr wasn't as good as Phil Bardsley in his prime is it?? I'm talking about 6X Premier League winning, 59 England Capped, Phil Neville. And Phil Neville at his peak (circa 02/04) was, for my money, a better footballer.

 

[antohan]

It's not at all an outlandish opinion to think that Phil Neville at his peak was a better footballer then Stephen Carr at his peak... in fact, I would take a wager that that would be a popular opinion amongst a lot of football fans.

It's not as if I'm saying Stephen Carr wasn't as good as Phil Bardsley in his prime is it?? I'm talking about 6X Premier League winning, 59 England Capped, Phil Neville. And Phil Neville at his peak (circa 02/04) was, for my money, a better footballer.

I do have a lot of time for Phil Neville, if I didn't I wouldn't even think about suggesting he should be Rivaldo's shadow in this game. The difference in quality is vast BUT he can do a job (and a much better one than leaving Rivaldo on the loose).

Yet, he was never a better right back than Carr. Better footballer possibly, but he is playing right back here.

I can see how someone could rate Kluivert higher than Owen at their respective peaks though, although Kluivert never reached the heights he was expected/hyped to reach. It's a matter of horses for courses anyhow.

 

[Snow]

You have to be kidding me. You are playing against Guardiola and Rivaldo and you will just leave Rivaldo to roam waiting for Guardiola to place a perfect ball behind you DMs backs. Mental.

I know I don't need to talk up Rivaldo but I'm surprised at how little weight Guardiola seems to carry on here. He spent a decade ripping teams apart playing the likes of Romario, Ronaldo, Luis Enrique, Rivaldo, Anderson, Overmars and Kluivert through on goal. If people are seeing a guy covering the back four here they couldn't be wider off the mark.

His Barca team is a reflection of the player he was, who do you think Xavi et al learnt from? Why do you think the Barca youth system was being run by him and Luis Enrique? They played very similar football back in the 90s and were a joy to watch.

He is probably one of few players you could actually find a brilliant assist compilation on in Youtube (this is Part 2 BTW but it goes straight to the guts, I suggest you also search for Part 1, it's worthy stuff):


You have two DMs to deal with Schneider, Baggio and Rivaldo. And if a CB comes out to pick up Rivaldo it is game on for a ball to Owen, directly or via Milito. Rood can and WILL slaughter you as it stands.

You focus on talking up Neville's appearances and fail to acknowledge that your fullbacks offer bugger all going forward. It does make Giggs and Figo a less daunting prospect if they have no decent attacking fullbacks to overlap with.

But those are your fullbacks, nowt you can do about it. Yet, since Rood has limited width, why not tuck Heinze in and send Phil to man-mark Rivaldo? He will be a lot more use there than as a fullback TBH.

Nice quote. But I would chop my left bollock off if Mourinho would just leave Rivaldo free to express himself on that basis. Zero chance he would.

Free to express what? Rood has no width what so ever. How do I deal with Ronaldinho? I keep my shape. That's it. He's not going to walk past everyone. He was good but he didn't do that. Petit and Fringe are top class midfielders both with very good work ethic and tackling. Lampard has good tactical awareness. Neville and Heinze aren't up against anyone so I only need to get them closer to the center backs. With these 6 keeping formation you won't get through the middle. That's a matter of fact. They need to screw up individually for that to happen. So they can sit back, and then when I get the ball get it to any of my front 4.

I keep saying it. 4-4-2 diamond is a very weak formation if you can't use it to exploit the flanks. You need great movement from the midfield and full backs. Teams simply don't use it. It's a fantasy formation to fit the best players in one team.

When Rood needs a man to get the win for him he's going to put on Di Matteo? What would that change at all? I have Anelka that I can use to play a 4-3-3.

 

[TheReligion]

This game is quite simple. Rood has the best defence and is better through the middle. Snow has the best width, possibly in the whole game, with Figo and Giggsy.

Difficult to call and I can't make up my mind. I think this would be destined for a score draw so as things stand I will not be voting.

 

[Snow]

I do have a lot of time for Phil Neville, if I didn't I wouldn't even think about suggesting he should be Rivaldo's shadow in this game. The difference in quality is vast BUT he can do a job (and a much better one than leaving Rivaldo on the loose).

Yet, he was never a better right back than Carr. Better footballer possibly, but he is playing right back here.

I can see how someone could rate Kluivert higher than Owen at their respective peaks though, although Kluivert never reached the heights he was expected/hyped to reach. It's a matter of horses for courses anyhow.

Doesn't matter. He played enough seasons to have a very decisive peak and that peak is very good. Why he suddenly changed and gave the spotlight to his birth brother I don't know but it's irrelevant. He was as long at the top of his game as your man Vieiri but with a better record internationally.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Neville at right back. He's a better defender than Evra. Yet Evra would be one of peoples first picks in defense had he been available. But I don't need Evra. I have Figo. So what I need is a smart defender. And Neville got lots of smarts.

 

[Rood]

Gibberish? Your pomposity is staggering.

Why, thank you! I do aim to please

As antohan has pointed out, Phil Neville is being played in this game as a right back - part of my point is that he is out of position. I agree that his peak was around the time that he played regularly for England but that was virtually always at left back as I mentioned earlier in this thread

Who is the better player over the course of their career is a completely irrelevant discussion to this draft and I find it completely bizarre that you are going to argue that Phil Nev was a better RB at his peak. Again I will mention that Carr was voted best RB in the PL, not once but TWICE!

 

[Snow]

Phil Neville is right footed and has played more game at right back then left. Why on Earth would he preferably be a left back? Only reason he was played left is because he was better than who ever was available to play left and he had his older brother playing right. His older brother never played left. Phil is more versatile. He's still a right back. He played there for Everton where he kept Bale quiet twice last season. He's been playing there all this season for Everton as well, most recently in a win against City and Chelsea.

Only reason he was used in middle for Everton was because Fellaini got injured a lot and Rodwell never seemed ready.

 

[Rood]

When Rood needs a man to get the win for him he's going to put on Di Matteo? What would that change at all?

I picked Di Matteo as my last man to give me the option of taking off a striker and going to a more defensive formation - although to be honest I dont think the subs really matter too much anyway.

 

[Snow]

I picked Di Matteo as my last man to give me the option of taking off a striker and going to a more defensive formation - although to be honest I dont think the subs really matter too much anyway.

I think that as well. But there are some people who consider it. I only aim it directly at them if I know who they are. Otherwise I don't bother.

 

[Rood]

Phil Neville is right footed and has played more game at right back then left. Why on Earth would he preferably be a left back? Only reason he was played left is because he was better than who ever was available to play left and he had his older brother playing right. His older brother never played left. Phil is more versatile. He's still a right back. He played there for Everton where he kept Bale quiet twice last season. He's been playing there all this season for Everton as well, most recently in a win against City and Chelsea.

This is just plain bullshit Im afraid - are you seriously trying to argue that Phil Neville's peak is right now?

It is true that he is versatile but you have played him at RB so that is irrelevant.
His best days were quite obviously the times he played regularly for England and us - that was as a left back, after that he had a couple of good seasons as a DM with Everton so RB has very much been his 3rd position and only in emergency situations.

 

[Snow]

I'm saying it doesn't matter that he played his peak at left back. It's the same position as right back defensively. If he can do a job at left back he can do a better one at right back. Easier to pass the ball or clear it. His support in attack would be the same because I don't need him to get high up.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Why, thank you! I do aim to please

As antohan has pointed out, Phil Neville is being played in this game as a right back - part of my point is that he is out of position. I agree that his peak was around the time that he played regularly for England but that was virtually always at left back as I mentioned earlier in this thread

Who is the better player over the course of their career is a completely irrelevant discussion to this draft and I find it completely bizarre that you are going to argue that Phil Nev was a better RB at his peak. Again I will mention that Carr was voted best RB in the PL, not once but TWICE!

So did Nigel Martyn... would that make him a better keeper then, say, Pepe Reina?? Or what about the just above average Rob Jones?? He's been in there twice... does that make him great? Awards are a decent indication, but they're not the everything. I could use awards to say that David Ginola was the best player in the league the season we won the Treble... or that Giggs' peak must have occured 2 years ago, as thats when he won POTY... yet most would agree that both claims would be totally false.

I'm not saying Carr was a bad player or anything... just that saying he was in the Team of the Year is hardly a world beating argument.

And in terms of being "out of position".... l he's not really out of position though is he?? He's played numerous games at RB throughout his career, probably a handful of times during his peak too. You can't downgrade Phil because of his versatility. It's easy for Carr to impress at average sides when there was only one truly great Right Back in the whole league, but then there was also a reason why Carr was at Spurs, and why he only moved to Newcastle from there.

 

[Rood]

So did Nigel Martyn... would that make him a better keeper then, say, Pepe Reina??

Not so useful to compare players from different eras as there are a lot of things to consider - Neville and Carr were at their peaks at around the same time (early '00s) so a direct comparison is valid.

Individual honours are one of the best measures of how good a player is as far as I am concerned - Ballon D'Or, Player of The Year, Golden Boot, Team of the Season etc.

and forget 'out of postion' - the point is that it is not his best positon for either club or country at his peak, I think even Snow knows this but Im sure he wont admit it as he has to defend his players which is fair enough.

 

[antohan]

Free to express what?

Fine, I get it, you didn't see Rivaldo at his peak. For the record, I do appreciate sometimes you just keep your shape and shouldn't just be going into a panic adapting to your opponent. But this is Rivaldo!!!

Rood has no width what so ever.

He's got Guardiola, you have no one of his playmaking quality. Xavi has nothing on Guardiola.

and then when I get the ball get it to any of my front 4.

That's precisely it. Your transition to attack is "get it to any of my front 4", with some pretty average passers there. Guardiola will just ping the ball not to the right player but to where the right player could run onto it unmarked by the time the ball gets there.

It looks to me like Petit will have to deal with keeping Schneider and Rivaldo quiet AND be the outlet to get the ball to any of the front four. He wasn't THAT good.

I keep saying it. 4-4-2 diamond is a very weak formation if you can't use it to exploit the flanks. You need great movement from the midfield and full backs.

He's got three out of four diamond players spot on there, the tips are among the very best for it. Baggio is the misfit but at least he is on Carlos' side, Carr is not ideal but Schneider will do fine. With a few players on that diamond could work extremely well.

When Rood needs a man to get the win for him he's going to put on Di Matteo? What would that change at all? I have Anelka that I can use to play a 4-3-3.

I doubt either bench is going to make any difference. Di Matteo offers nothing, you are already playing 4-3-3. Can't think of any event where it would make sense for you to bring Anelka on.

Class player but there's a reason he went in the last round: everyone was sorted for strikers and there was no real need to hire one as a sub if you wouldn't play him.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Not so useful to compare players from different eras as there are a lot of things to consider - Neville and Carr were at their peaks at around the same time (early '00s) so a direct comparison is valid.

and forget 'out of postion' - the point is that it is not his best positon for either club or country at his peak, I think even Snow knows this but Im sure he wont admit it as he has to defend his players which is fair enough.

Funny thing is we're both contradicting ourselves here.

Your saying a direct comparison is valid, whilst at the same time saying that Neville's best position wasn't at RB (And I'm sort of saying the opposite)... thus he'd never have been in the running for that position or any position for that matter... as his versatility means he would play pretty much anywhere and so would be difficult for him to get voted into any one position.... so a direct comparison is just as invalid as Martyn/Reina in that respect.


My only aside being that, whilst Phil Neville spent his peak years playing LB (and CM sometimes) he would have been just as good, if not better at RB, as he would have been defending on his stronger side. It is is not to a stretch to suggest that, however good Phil was at LB is pretty much exactly how good he would have been at RB... as he has shown at other points in his career that he is equally adept.

If you're saying you can't take that into account because he didn't play peak years at RB, and so we must only use the knowledge that he was a good LB at his peak and so RB would be an unknown quantity.... then I think that would be a tad harsh on Snow!

 

[antohan]

Doesn't matter. He played enough seasons to have a very decisive peak and that peak is very good. Why he suddenly changed and gave the spotlight to his birth brother I don't know but it's irrelevant.

I wasn't having a go at Kluivert, much the opposite, I was effectively stating he could well be preferred, Ballon d'Or or not. My saying he didn't reach as high a peak as expected is not to put him down but a reflection of how much I rated him and how disappointing his subsequent collapse was.

I think it is clear I was a very keen follower of Barca in those days, how you construed that to be criticism of Kluivert I don't know.

Don't go all defensive on me, there are some great attributes in your team, I just think you are being too dismissive of Rood's strengths.

What's the fun of this if we can't debate over how teams would work?

 

[antohan]

and forget 'out of postion' - the point is that it is not his best positon for either club or country at his peak, I think even Snow knows this but Im sure he wont admit it as he has to defend his players which is fair enough.

I think that's fair. I never saw him as out of position, he sure can do a job and his peak was on the left purely because the right was taken.

You do have to acknowledge Carr is a right back playing in his peak position though.

 

[Snow]

Fine, I get it, you didn't see Rivaldo at his peak. For the record, I do appreciate sometimes you just keep your shape and shouldn't just be going into a panic adapting to your opponent. But this is Rivaldo!!!



He's got Guardiola, you have no one of his playmaking quality. Xavi has nothing on Guardiola.



That's precisely it. Your transition to attack is "get it to any of my front 4", with some pretty average passers there. Guardiola will just ping the ball not to the right player but to where the right player could run onto it unmarked by the time the ball gets there.

It looks to me like Petit will have to deal with keeping Schneider and Rivaldo quiet AND be the outlet to get the ball to any of the front four. He wasn't THAT good.



He's got three out of four diamond players spot on there, the tips are among the very best for it. Baggio is the misfit but at least he is on Carlos' side, Carr is not ideal but Schneider will do fine. With a few players on that diamond could work extremely well.



I doubt either bench is going to make any difference. Di Matteo offers nothing, you are already playing 4-3-3. Can't think of any event where it would make sense for you to bring Anelka on.

Class player but there's a reason he went in the last round: everyone was sorted for strikers and there was no real need to hire one as a sub if you wouldn't play him.

Of course I saw Rivaldo but he always had width with him. He played with Figo and Luis Enrique and he had often 2 strikers in front him and always someone one the side.

And have I average passers? Is that how highly rated Frings is. you think I will have problem getting the ball to the wings? He has 3 central midfielders to mark. Lampard is a very intelligent player and is always going to get the ball. Figo and Giggs are basically unmarked. Unless he plays high up which is fine by me.

Petit doesn't do all that on his own. Christ. You always read this game as there's 11 vs 11 man to man. Frings is a runner and a tackler in defense. He's a defensive midfielder with the ability to pass and shoot. You think he's going to get 79 caps in central midfield for Germany by being average?
Schneider isn't a defensive minded midfielder. With Germany he always had Frings or Hammann or Ramelow with him. He always had 2 players in central midfield with him to do the work at the back.

I simply don't see how Rood is going to defending against me effectively. I have 6 players that can close down the middle. I don't need to press because he's not got a fast team. There's no chase in midfield. It's sufficient for Giggs and Figo to do normal winger tracking back. Knowing Giggs he will help out. Lampard is a smart man. He doesn't lazily wander around on the pitch. So with those three in midfield Guardiola won't be spreading passes around more than 10m.
You do realize the mistake my back 4 has to make for a pass going through the defense to an onside striker is. If it were that easy why doesn't Scholes do so every game. In fact when was the last time you saw that kind of pass from someone else that didn't have Barcelona's off the ball movement?