70s Fantasy Draft - Antohan v TheReligion

[Brwned]

Important note: For the purpose of this competition, these players are considered at the level when they were in their prime.

Antohan

The main point behind picking Ramelow was being able to do this and use my fullbacks to full effect, much like Leverkusen and Roma did earlier in the decade.

The default defensive shape is with Ramelow on Rui Costa in order to nullify his impact. However, when my team is in possession, the fullbacks are free to storm forward, with Ramelow staying behind in a back three.

DEFAULT

IN POSSESSION

This way, if I lose possession and a fullback is caught upfield, either of my CBs can drift wide to meet any threat down the flanks, with Ramelow covering them as CB. Alternatively he reverts to the default shape.

It’s handy but it requires:
1) a game-reading tactically disciplined specialist: this was Ramelow’s role for Leverkusen and Germany in 2002. This has never been van Bommel's role.

2) CBs who are proficient as fullbacks either side, this is not as effective otherwise. Both my CBs can do that and they would be their usual fullback positions. I'm sure Brown can play left back as much as Puyol, but he just wouldn't be that good at it, which is my point on a right back having to cover at left back.

As far as possession goes, Simeone and Luis Enrique will have the better of De La Peña and Ambrosini. Van Bommel has now been left as a sole anchor and will be chasing shadows with Zidane and Forlan operating either side of him.

Of course, I could easily throw Zidane there in the middle and push Forlán up front. That would look more balanced but, again, I'm trying to exploit width here, keep their fullbacks busy and have Zidane and Forlan pivoting for Candela's and Zanetti's overlaps. They both have the intelligence and vision to drift wide or to the centre, whichever is best at a specific point in time.

Vieri can comfortably lead the line by himself and his pace means TRs defenders would push up at their peril. Likewise, I don't know why TR talks of how he will exploit Salas' pace as that really is down to whether my CBs leave space behind them for him to run onto.

Thus, I’m best placed to win the midfield battle, I have more width to rely on and there’s no question I have a lot more creativity and goals from midfield. Leaving aside Forlan (as it wouldn't be a fair comparison) my other midfielders' scoring rate is 50% higher.

TR is doomed.

PLAYER PROFILES

TheReligion

Angelo Peruzzi

Mainstay of the successful Juventus team of the 90's. Honours during that period include 3 league titles, 2 Italian super cups, 1 champions league, 1 UEFA cup, 1 intercontinental cup. He also has 3 Italian goalkeeper of the year awards from this period. To go with his illustrious career at Juve, he also offers 192 appearances for Lazio, a Copa Italia title and was a World Cup Winner with Italy in 2006.

Serginho

Brilliant attacking fullback who worked in tandem with Cafu at AC Milan for many years. Known for his overlapping runs and superb engine, Serginho was comfortable at both fullback or left sided winger. He will help supply width on my left flank and cause issues with his movement on and off the ball.

Carlos Puyol

Comfortable anywhere across the back four, Puyol is better suited in the centre due to his commanding presence and commitment to the teams cause. His nickname is "The Wall" which speaks volumes. Strong, nimble and with perfect positioning he pretty much has it all. With 625 appearances for Barca he is some player with almost 100 caps for Spain coming at the nations most successful ever period. I would be still writing this tomorrow if I mentioned what he has won at team level, but personally he has been named UEFA defender of the year and featured in the UEFA team of the year in 2002, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009 and 2010. He was also named in the European Championship (2008) all star team, and the World Cup (2010) all star team.

Alessandro Nesta Captain

Considered by many as the best centre half to ever play the game...

Brilliant reader of the game with some of the best tactical knowledge ever seen from a centre half. Comfortable with the ball and dedicated to the cause. Nesta has won just about everything with AC Milan and Italy, including 2 Champions League's and a World Cup title. Personally Nesta has been crowned UEFA defender of the year and featured in its team of the year on 4 separate occasions. From 2000-2004 he was named Serie A defender of the year consecutively. A true great for both club and country.

Cosmin Contra

The less known of the back four, unless you are Romanian. Contra is one of those from the generation of Romanian players who became successful at the start of the 00's. A dedicated and talented wingback and when required defensive midfielder, Contra has a good engine with an eye for goal. He is attacking minded and loves to get forward. A mainstay in the national side for over 15 years he has had spells as part of the famous Alaves side which was beaten in the UEFA cup final by Liverpool, aswel as featuring for Athletico Madrid and AC Milan. More recently Contra has played in La Liga for Getafe. In 2001 Contra was named Romanian player of the year and was selected in UEFA's team of the year.

Mark van Bommel

Tough tackling captain of the Dutch national side, van Bommel is notorious for his no nonsense non compromising style on the pitch. With spells at PSV, Barcalona, Bayern Munich and now AC Milan, he has represented some of Europe's finest clubs, boasting 71 caps for his country. His experience is magnificent and his role in my side will be to disrupt and put his foot in whilst helping maintain a solid core to the side. van Bommel is a Champions League winner, a World Cup runner up and has been named twice as Dutch footballer of the year. Every club he has played for has won its respected domestic league title.

Massimo Ambrosini

Box to box with a fantastic engine and desire to win. Ambrosini is known for his tough tackling and aeriel prowess but also offers a tidy passing game to compliment these attributes. Playing alongside his team mate, van Bommel, Ambrosini will be instructed to bomb forward when possible making the most of his box to box style and powerful engine. Ambrosini is the current captain of AC Milan and is held in high regard amongst the clubs fans for his attitude and commitment. Another solid player in the middle of the park who simply does not let you down when it matters.

Ivan de la Pena

Perfect player to keep things ticking over in the middle of the park. Playing infront of the sitting Ambrosini and van Bommel, de la Pena is free to pass the ball bridging the gap between defence and attack perfectly. Known for his magnificent technical ability and accurate passing, it is fair to say he is the stereotypical product of the Barcalona school of football seen today by the likes of Cesc Fabregas, Xavi, Thiago and Iniesta. Along with his fantastic passing skills, de la Pena was superb with the ball at his feet and capable of carrying the ball elegantly, ghosting past opposing players seamlessly. For those unfamiliar with de la Pena, please watch the below to get an idea.


Rui Costa

This man needs no introduction. Perfect passing and sublime technique, Rui Costa has been described as one of the best midfielders of his generation. A traditional "Playmaker" who rarely gave the ball away. A classic number 10 yet also competent in the centre of the park due to his ability to retain possession. Some say more devastating when playing higher up the pitch which is to be his role today along side Ortega. Champions League winner at AC Milan with over 100 caps for his country and 28 goals. Simply one of the very best to play the game.

Ariel Ortega

When his name is mentioned many people will think of a wasted talent but what they should be thinking here was how good was Ortega at his peek. The answer to that question would be pretty damn good. Capped by Argentina 87 times, scoring 17 goals, Ortega is still considered one of the best products from Argentinian football to date. Ortega was lightening quick and during his best years seen as the finest dribbler in the world. His trademarks were lobbed shots and clever Messi style feint's. A very tricky customer who would wreak havoc upon any defence he came across. For those unfamiliar with Ortega, please view the following video.


David Trezeguet

71 caps for France, 34 goals. 112 games for Monaco, 60 goals. 245 games for Juventus, 148 goals...

David Trezeguet scores goals wherever he plays but what is more interesting is the variety of ways in which he scores them. At 6ft 3 his physical power is enough to worry any centre half. As lethal inside the box as he is without, his powerful headed goals are as familiar as his net bursting volleys. Serie A top foreign footballer of the year, Serie A player of the year and Serie A top goalscorer in 2001-2002, as a centre forward Trezeguet really does have it all.

Substitute

Marcelo Salas

Won league titles at every club he played, left footed with blistering pace and a sublime techinique in front of goal. 71 caps for Chilie with 37 goals. In Europe he is best known for his time at Lazio. During his time in Italy Salas won the Serie A title on 3 occasions, the Italian Cup on 1 occasion and the Italian Super Cup on 3 occasions. He also won the UEFA cup and UEFA cup winners cup along with the FIFA World Cup bronze shoe in 1998.



Summary

I believe the side above offers top quality in all areas. Puyol and Nesta are two of the best centre halves in the draft. Faultless together and very difficult to beat.

Serginho and Contra deployed on either flank offer enough defensive nouce to get back and muck in and another attacking flair and engine to get forward and support the forward players. Serginho will offer the most width as he can also play as winger.

Ambrosini and van Bommel. Both able to mix it up in the middle of the park with van Bommel acting as destroyer and Ambrosini the box to box engine of the pair. Both have instructions to sit in and assist when Serginho/Contra move up the flanks, with Ambrosini roaming forward when possible to join attacks.

Rui Costa and de la Pena will be very difficult to get the ball off as both are two of the best passers in the draft. Creative and clever, play will be dictated by these gents with Costa roaming behind Trezeguet and de la Pena playing deeper.

Ortega in his favoured role as second striker can also roam in behind Trezeguet using his dribbling skills and pace to take him anywhere across the front line. Whilst Rui Costa and de la Pena give stability, look at Ortega as the livewire who can be equally devastating in a more flamboyant way.

Trezeguet up top alone is the perfect man for the job. Attacking support is not far away though with Rui Costa and Ariel Ortega to call on. He will be dished up plenty of tempting chances by the wealth of creativity behind him something which he rarely passes up on.

Salas shall be used later in the game if required as his blistering pace can be the pefect foil to form a partnership with the powerful Trezeguet.

 

[Rood]

hmmm The Religion is strong at the back and antohan is strong up front - not sure which to go for

 

[Siorac]

TheReligion's team shades it in terms of individual quality but packing three pure number 10s into the same team will never work. Antohan's side looks a lot more balanced to me.

 

[Team Brian GB]

I think I am well suited against these guys though both are very strong, I'd vote for TheReligion if I could.

 

[Rood]

I think I am well suited against these guys though both are very strong, I'd vote for TheReligion if I could.

You can vote, there are no restrictions - you can even vote for yourself.

 

[Team Brian GB]

You can vote, there are no restrictions - you can even vote for yourself.

Really?

 

[kps88]

Really?

Yep. This is where having an assistant manager pays off. A guaranteed extra vote.

 

[Snow]

Yep. This is where having an assistant manager pays off. A guaranteed extra vote.

Didn't think about that. Sounds unfair.

 

[KM]

Yep. This is where having an assistant manager pays off. A guaranteed extra vote.

FWIW I didn't vote in the last match nor will I vote in any ColdBoy's matches.

 

[Snow]

Right, the other game is beating this one. Let's pick this one up.

This is clearly a match where one team has a stronger front 4 whilst the other has a stronger front back.

Forlán play similar to what he does for Uruguay (right anto?) when he has Suarez and Cavani with him.

Anto's squad is more balanced. Brown and Candela can both cross a ball sometimes. Vieiri is a big lad with head talents and foot talents. De La Pena is of course not as good as Zidane but he also didn't play the same role. He was more like Scholes is for us now.

The Religion is basically AC Milan. It's really hard to break down. Very good back 4 with those 3 in middle. It could easily go either way. If this were a game with a team home and the other away I'd probably pick the home team. I actually think a draw is most likely but with one winner I think antohan clinches it with his front 4.

 

[Brwned]

TheReligion's team shades it in terms of individual quality but packing three pure number 10s into the same team will never work. Antohan's side looks a lot more balanced to me.

I agree there's more balance in antohan's team but I don't think it's quite true to call De la Pena a #10. He played there to good effect at Espanyol but at Barca he played in an orthodox midfield role in a Pirlo-esque role, I thought. So it works similarly to a Milan-style christmas tree formation which had just as many playmakers.

I think it looked better with Salas up top alongside Trezeguet though.

 

[Siorac]

I agree there's more balance in antohan's team but I don't think it's quite true to call De la Pena a #10. He played there to good effect at Espanyol but at Barca he played in an orthodox midfield role in a Pirlo-esque role, I thought. So it works similarly to a Milan-style christmas tree formation which had just as many playmakers.

I think it looked better with Salas up top alongside Trezeguet though.

But he did not put De la Pena in the "Pirlo position", he expressly states he's in front of Van Bommel and Ambrosini. Milan's Christmas tree formation was somewhat different - and I always thought they were more effective with the diamond and two strikers which if I recall correctly Ancelotti used more often than the Christmas tree. That Milan side's crowning performance was the 2005 CL final - yes, I know, it ended badly but they were magnificent for most of the game -, Shevchenko and Crespo taking Liverpool apart with Kaká pulling the strings.

Oh, and De la Pena wasn't nearly as good as Pirlo was in his prime.

 

[Brwned]

He's still playing as a centre mid rather than a #10 though. And while I'd agree that was their crowning performance it doesn't really change the fact they won the CL the next year with the 4321 with just a poacher up front as TR's doing now. They weren't as impressive as they were in the previous year, sure, but then few teams would after losing probably the best striker in Europe. The system still worked very well, and they still managed to utterly embarrass us in the semis. Again, I agree with you that another system would've worked better I'm just saying that this system would work too.

 

[Gio]

TheReligion's core is as gritty as they come. The central defensive partnership is very strong, probably strong enough to compensate for such attack-minded full-backs. As strong as they are down the middle, I question both team's width. If there's deadlock in the middle, Contra and Serginho offer more going forward than Candela and Brown. What's impressive about Antohan's team though is the collection of such well-rounded, adaptable and two-footed players.

 

[antohan]

TheReligion's core is as gritty as they come. The central defensive partnership is very strong, probably strong enough to compensate for such attack-minded full-backs. As strong as they are down the middle, I question both team's width. If there's deadlock in the middle, Contra and Serginho offer more going forward than Candela and Brown. What's impressive about Antohan's team though is the collection of such well-rounded, adaptable and two-footed players.

I understand there is a lot of destruction potential and grittiness in TR's core, but I don't think it is significantly different to what my players have to offer. Montero, Ramelow, Zanetti and Simeone are no pushovers, in fact, all of them have been club or national team captains (as well as Zidane, Forlán and Luis Enrique) which indicates there is plenty of leadership and commitment there.

Regarding width, I reckon I have the upper hand there, not that much down to the fullbacks themselves but how the rest of the team operates. Rui Costa is a rather central player while both Luis Enrique and Forlán can very comfortably operate on the flanks. This in itself should make it harder for TRs fullbacks to push forward. As I pointed out, Serginho would be advancing down my right flank, which features Brown, Zannetti and Luis Enrique, all of them very proficient at operating on that side. If Serginho were caught upfield and TR lost possession, these players would launch a counter down that flank and there's no natural left flank operator to deal with it. I would have a lot of joy down that side.

You should also consider that both Luis Enrique and Forlán are not averse to pressing and tracking back. This again should put pressure on TRs fullbacks, but also means a midfield deadlock is unlikely. If it were emerging Forlán and/or Luis Enrique in particular could drop deep and help tip the balance.

As you point out, my team is very adaptable as it has several extremely versatile players. I can easily switch to a back three with Zanetti and Candela further up, or a back 5 if I'm ahead and want to shut it out (don't think I would really!), I can pull Luis Enrique into any midfield role that needs reinforcement (more likely if I'm ahead). TR really can't vary too much from his basic proposition, if it's not working his plan B is unlikely to be a vast improvement on Plan A.

As it stands I'm just very comfortable with this setup because I think ultimately it is Nesta that is losing me votes and, quite frankly, good as he is I can't see him stopping Vieri, Forlán and Luis Enrique.

 

[antohan]

I just wrote a lot of stuff and forgot mentioning one basic point. Van Bommel and Ambrosini may be gritty destroyers, but once they get the ball they are nowhere near as capable with it as Simeone and Zanetti (leaving out Zidane, De la Peña and whether he is a No.10). Zanetti will do some real damage switching defense into attack from that DM position.

Watching my team would be a lot more fun.

 

[antohan]

I think I am well suited against these guys though both are very strong, I'd vote for TheReligion if I could.

I haven't even looked at your thread yet but have noticed it has a lot more posts. I've no doubt half of them are you talking up your team.

 

[antohan]

I'm not sure putting a link to the player profiles was such a good idea. I thought it would spare people a lot of scrolling but, as it stands, I notice it ends up having a lot of TR propaganda.

So I'll just bring up two things that may be having an impact:

A classic goalkeeper is a big guy and as he loses athleticism he gains in experience so their peak is rather late and they last into their late 30s/early 40s. Barthez was not a big guy, thus very reliant on his athleticism and, in particular, his jump. By the time he came to United, he was past his peak, so every now and then he would concede a goal that you just felt like a bigger keeper would have saved. The fact is, Barthez in his prime would have saved any of those.

Just look at him at his peak and, in particular, see 1:51 for a wonderful reaction, the sort only Barthez was really capable of. He has saved the first attempt, foreseen a follow up which didn’t look good and eradicated the danger before the rival No.5 even knew what was happening.



Also, I suspect some voters have no idea what a beast of a player Luis Enrique was. Seeing as his role here is mainly attacking, Youtube clips will do him justice (not many clips showing great tackling or assisting get made).

 

[Snow]

I don't like a lots of videos and text. Keep it short or to the point. Otherwise I make up my mind with out your influence.

Here's us drawing against the world champions. Saw that goal live. The stadium was packed full.

 

[Gio]

A classic goalkeeper is a big guy and as he loses athleticism he gains in experience so their peak is rather late and they last into their late 30s/early 40s. Barthez was not a big guy, thus very reliant on his athleticism and, in particular, his jump.

Good point, e.g. Goram was a similar type of goalkeeper and had quite a sharp fall as his physical condition rapidly decline in his early 30s. I'm not overly convinced about Barthez even in his Marseille pomp. Peruzzi edges that comparison. For me though, Antohan's middle five has a better shape and versatility to it than TheReligion's.

 

[antohan]

Good point, e.g. Goram was a similar type of goalkeeper and had quite a sharp fall as his physical condition rapidly decline in his early 30s. I'm not overly convinced about Barthez even in his Marseille pomp. Peruzzi edges that comparison. For me though, Antohan's middle five has a better shape and versatility to it than TheReligion's.

I'm not saying Barthez was better than Peruzzi. I just think United fans tend to have too negative a view of Barthez, and understand the reasons, but he was a great keeper nonetheless.

 

[TheReligion]

Tactical Change

Salas on

Salas brings blistering pace to the side and a whole host of new problems for the notably slow and now tiring Ramelow and Montero. With the creative spark of Rui Costa in the hole, he will have plenty to run at and there is simply no one to match his pace in those central areas.

People have touched on Antohan's front players but are overlooking the quality of Trezeguet, Salas and Rui Costa. I personally do not see alot of difference in the forward players but where I feel my side is head and shoulders above is when it comes to defensive capabilities and that should see me home in this match up. Nesta and Puyol, in my opinion, would be able to cope with Vieri and Forlan on the ground and in the air, especially with the likes of van Bommel mopping up infront of them. The same cannot be said for Ramelow and Montero against Trezeguet and Salas.

To touch on one other thing mentioned by Antohan, Puyol is competent at Left back, and can easily cover for Serginho who himself offers far more going forward than any of Antohan's defensive players. In this instance the deep lying van Bommel can fill in and the defensive unit can shift across until Serginho returns.

 

[TheReligion]

Further to the above, Antohan has been a touch misleading.

Rui Costa has 97 career goals in comparison to Diego Simeone's 84...
David Trezeguet has 245 goals in comparison to Christian Vieri's 236..
Marcelo Salas has 211 goals in comparison to Diego Forlan's 213..

Not sure how his forwards offer "MORE GOALS IN EVERY SHAPE AND FORM"...

 

[antohan]

Further to the above, Antohan has been a touch misleading.

Rui Costa has 97 career goals in comparison to Diego Simeone's 84...
David Trezeguet has 245 goals in comparison to Christian Vieri's 236..
Marcelo Salas has 211 goals in comparison to Diego Forlan's 213..

Not sure how his forwards offer "MORE GOALS IN EVERY SHAPE AND FORM"...

I haven't been misleading. The Rui Costa and Simeone numbers are correct but you will notice I always emphasise goals per game and Rui Costa played 675 vs Simeone's 513. Which implies a higher rate for Simeone. If you want we can take Rui Costa's record at Milan, in that position, with that formation... 11 in 188.

I never said Vieri's career tally was higher than Trezeguet's either. My point was that Vieri on his own is more dangerous than Trezeguet on his own. Anyone who has seen them play will know what I'm going on about. But if you want to talk goal tallies Trezeguet' scored 32 in 46 in his Serie A top scorer year (since this is footballers at their peak), Vieri only scored 25 that season... but in 28 games. And the next season Vieri scored 27 in 35 vs 13 in 28 for Trezeguet.

You also mention Salas who wasn't even there to begin with, and obviously changes the overall picture, and conveniently leave out Ortega vs. Luis Enrique, which was a landslide. Yes, Salas scored a lot of goals, no disputing that, but he was never top league -let alone European- scorer in a competitive league, ever (I care little for Chilean league goalscoring records).

His best (peak) European record was 23 in 43 followed by 17 in 42 the next year Forlan's was 35 in 45 with 23 in 53 and 28 in 56 either side of that. Forlan got Top Goalscorer twice, once sharing the European Golden Boot, and was joint top scorer at a World Cup. Salas got none of that. Forlan scored more than 20 goals in a European season 5 times, Salas only once.

As said, you are also forgetting Luis Enrique's contribution. His European goalscoring record for Barca is 27 in 60, and he is not even my striker!

 

[antohan]

Given TR's move to play two up front, I'll switch things around a bit.

The main point behind picking Ramelow was being able to do this and use my fullbacks to full effect, much like Leverkusen and Roma did earlier in the decade.

The default defensive shape is with Ramelow on Rui Costa in order to nullify his impact. However, when my team is in possession, the fullbacks are free to storm forward, with Ramelow staying behind in a back three.

DEFAULT

IN POSSESSION

This way, if I lose possession and a fullback is caught upfield, either of my CBs can drift wide to meet any threat down the flanks, with Ramelow covering them as CB. Alternatively he reverts to the default shape.

It’s handy but it requires:
1) a game-reading tactically disciplined specialist: this was Ramelow’s role for Leverkusen and Germany in 2002. This has never been van Bommel's role.

2) CBs who are proficient as fullbacks either side, this is not as effective otherwise. Both my CBs can do that and they would be their usual fullback positions. I'm sure Brown can play left back as much as Puyol, but he just wouldn't be that good at it, which is my point on a right back having to cover at left back.

As far as possession goes, Simeone and Luis Enrique will have the better of De La Peña and Ambrosini. Van Bommel has now been left as a sole anchor and will be chasing shadows with Zidane and Forlan operating either side of him.

Of course, I could easily throw Zidane there in the middle and push Forlán up front. That would look more balanced but, again, I'm trying to exploit width here, keep their fullbacks busy and have Zidane and Forlan pivoting for Candela's and Zanetti's overlaps. They both have the intelligence and vision to drift wide or to the centre, whichever is best at a specific point in time.

Vieri can comfortably lead the line by himself and his pace means TRs defenders would push up at their peril. Likewise, I don't know why TR talks of how he will exploit Salas' pace as that really is down to whether my CBs leave space behind them for him to run onto.

Thus, I’m best placed to win the midfield battle, I have more width to rely on and there’s no question I have a lot more creativity and goals from midfield. Leaving aside Forlan (as it wouldn't be a fair comparison) my other midfielders' scoring rate is 50% higher.

TR is doomed.

PLAYER PROFILES

 

[TheReligion]

Given TR's move to play two up front, I'll switch things around a bit.

The main point behind picking Ramelow was being able to do this and use my fullbacks to full effect, much like Leverkusen and Roma did earlier in the decade.

The default defensive shape is with Ramelow on Rui Costa in order to nullify his impact. However, when my team is in possession, the fullbacks are free to storm forward, with Ramelow staying behind in a back three.

IN POSSESSION

This way, if I lose possession and a fullback is caught upfield, either of my CBs can drift wide to meet any threat down the flanks, with Ramelow covering them as CB. Alternatively he reverts to the default shape.

It’s handy but it requires:
1) a game-reading tactically disciplined specialist: this was Ramelow’s role for Leverkusen and Germany in 2002. This has never been van Bommel's role.

2) CBs who are proficient as fullbacks either side, this is not as effective otherwise. Both my CBs can do that and they would be their usual fullback positions. I'm sure Brown can play left back as much as Puyol, but he just wouldn't be that good at it, which is my point on a right back having to cover at left back.

As far as possession goes, Simeone and Luis Enrique will have the better of De La Peña and Ambrosini. Van Bommel has now been left as a sole anchor and will be chasing shadows with Zidane and Forlan operating either side of him.

Of course, I could easily throw Zidane there in the middle and push Forlán up front. That would look more balanced but, again, I'm trying to exploit width here, keep their fullbacks busy and have Zidane and Forlan pivoting for Candela's and Zanetti's overlaps. They both have the intelligence and vision to drift wide or to the centre, whichever is best at a specific point in time.

Vieri can comfortably lead the line by himself and his pace means TRs defenders would push up at their peril. Likewise, I don't know why TR talks of how he will exploit Salas' pace as that really is down to whether my CBs leave space behind them for him to run onto.

Thus, I’m best placed to win the midfield battle, I have more width to rely on and there’s no question I have a lot more creativity and goals from midfield. Leaving aside Forlan (as it wouldn't be a fair comparison) my other midfielders' scoring rate is 50% higher.

TR is doomed.

PLAYER PROFILES

Touching on the first point, Ramelow v Rui Costa is a total mismatch. Rui Costa is considered one of the finest midfielder players of his generation, up there with the very best... Carsten Ramelow? Well I say no more..

Next, Brown and Candela storming forward? I am not sure how that would bother my side as neither (Brown especially) were well known for powering forward. As said earlier, Serginho is a country mile ahead of either when it comes to playing that role, with Contra as proficient as both.

Further to the above I have never seen Wes Brown at left back either for club or country and it is a role he would be drafted in with absolutely no prior experience. The comment about Puyol is naive:

Carles Puyol - Player profile - transfermarkt.co.uk

Finally it is a massive assumption to say the three man midfield of de la Pena, van Bommel and Ambrosini will crumble to Simeone and Zanetti and I am not even sure how he has come to that verdict.

de la Pena is by far a better passer of the ball than Simeone or Zanetti with Ambrosini and van Bommel more than capable of retaining possession and picking a pass. With Rui Costa playing in the 10 role, bridging the gap between the midfield and attack, I find it hard to see how Antohan's midfield can claim the midfield battle when up against a far more disruptive and proficient passing outfit with the additional width and wing play of Serginho and Contra, both famed for their tiresome overlapping runs forward.

 

[antohan]

Touching on the first point, Ramelow v Rui Costa is a total mismatch. Rui Costa is considered one of the finest midfielder players of his generation, up there with the very best... Carsten Ramelow? Well I say no more..

Destroyers rarely grab the headlines. Usually only do when sent off. He just needs to be a nuisance and stop him playing, which is not as hard or eye-catching, but performed effectively for club and country.

Next, Brown and Candela storming forward? I am not sure how that would bother my side as neither (Brown especially) were well known for powering forward. As said earlier, Serginho is a country mile ahead of either when it comes to playing that role, with Contra as proficient as both.

You should check my players positioning. It is not Brown but Zanetti now at full back. He is a country mile ahead of Serginho.

Further to the above I have never seen Wes Brown at left back either for club or country and it is a role he would be drafted in with absolutely no prior experience. The comment about Puyol is naive:

Carles Puyol - Player profile - transfermarkt.co.uk

I've never seen Puyol play there myself either. Clearly my point was that is not a familiar role, and certainly not as familiar as for Montero. Hands up those who have seen Puyol at left fullback. I'll happily take that back if people have seen him perform at LB proficiently.

You still have a right footed left-CB -which hasn't stopped people playing there- but being left footed in that position is a bonus, it's purely common sense. I happen to think Montero is better pegs aside, but I'm just providing further reasons why he would be more effective there than Puyol.

Finally it is a massive assumption to say the three man midfield of de la Pena, van Bommel and Ambrosini will crumble to Simeone and Zanetti and I am not even sure how he has come to that verdict.

Again, check who you are playing. It is Luis Enrique there now, not Zanetti. And if you count your anchor you should count mine, not make it look 3 vs. 2.

de la Pena is by far a better passer of the ball than Simeone or Zanetti with Ambrosini and van Bommel more than capable of retaining possession and picking a pass.

Luis Enrique is not half bad I tell you, and he will get a lot more of the ball than de la Peña.

With Rui Costa playing in the 10 role, bridging the gap between the midfield and attack, I find it hard to see how Antohan's midfield can claim the midfield battle when up against a far more disruptive and proficient passing outfit with the additional width and wing play of Serginho and Contra, both famed for their tiresome overlapping runs forward.

As said, you should check my teamsheet again. I have two guys bridging that gap whereas you have one. One of them far superior to Rui Costa at performing that role. The other as well IMO, but agree I am biased after seeing him carry my national team to a well deserved 4th place in the World Cup, losing semi and 3rd place by the one goal.

You also persist in ignoring that I am not exactly giving your fullbacks a free ticket forward, while you are giving mine the freedom of the flanks with very central players throughout your midfield.

PS: just noticed you decided to reply to me eliminating the default shape adopted by the team. Cunning misinformation strategy.

 

[kps88]

Its highly idealistic to have your team play 2 different formations depending on if they have possession. You're basically playing the first default formation with your full backs given the license to go forward and Ramelow sitting deep. Teams don't swap between four and three at the back so frequently in a game.

 

[antohan]

Its highly idealistic to have your team play 2 different formations depending on if they have possession. You're basically playing the first default formation with your full backs given the license to go forward and Ramelow sitting deep. Teams don't swap between four and three at the back so frequently in a game.

Of course, I agree. Players are not static either, and it may be that the fullbacks take turns. I just wanted to demonstrate how seamlessly they could both go forward with my backside not looking particularly exposed. I just don't have arrows on that site!

The defaul shape is what I'm playing at most of the time, which is why I got miffed with TR excluding it and making it look like I'm going 3-4-2-1 as standard. That wouldn't make much sense.

 

[antohan]

BTW kps, appreciate the feedback. I didn't actually NEED to do all that switching, but wanted to see how people relate to that, whether they like it or not, etc.

 

[TheReligion]

Just looked at the results so far and have to say they are ridiculous.

Player for player my team is better and has far more all round quality, especially at the back and between the sticks.

Peruzzi is a better goalkeeper than the error prone Barthez

Puyol and Nesta are leagues ahead of Montero and Wes Brown!

Serginho is the best full back on the pitch with Contra not half bad on the right side. Candella is average at best.

In the midfield Ramelow is nowhere near as good as Ambrosini / van Bommel, both of which do his role and more far more effectively. Ambrosini's engine itself is magnificent with both offering far more going forward when it comes to goals and all round threat.

Simeone and Luis Enrique are good players, but there is not as bigger gulf in class between those and Ambrosini, van Bommel and de la Pena as there is between my defence and his.

Up top Trezeguet, Salas and Rui Costa are more than a match for Forlan, Vieri and Zidane. I would say this battle is fairly even.

As said my defence should win this battle for me as the gulf in class is far too great to be ignored. It seems it won't though for some reason when I feel this is the most obvious difference in the two sides.

Further to that, all the switching around in Antohan's side is a recipe for disaster. My team is far too disciplined and full of natural leaders.

 

[antohan]

Just looked at the results so far and have to say they are ridiculous.

It is unfortunate that the thread op gets replaced when changes are brought about. If people coming into the thread for the first time could see how we started off it would make a lot of sense.

Peruzzi is a better goalkeeper than the error prone Barthez

He is very good I admit. Bathez has fluffed a few balls over a career spanning ~15 years, his average game was as solid as Peruzzi's though. I could point out a couple of high profile Peruzzi errors but I won't, as it would be a ridiculous proposition to suggest he is therefore going to make one in every game.

As said, last time Barthez faced your front two (with Nedved pulling the strings, who is better than Rui Costa) they couldn't score.

Puyol and Nesta are leagues ahead of Montero and Wes Brown!

Nesta is far superior to Wes Brown and that's the real difference. Mind, this is not "Is Nesta better than Brown?" but can a certain XI beat another XI and Brown does a good job as Montero's partner. That's all I need him to do.

Serginho is the best full back on the pitch with Contra not half bad on the right side. Candella is average at best.

No he is not

In the midfield Ramelow is nowhere near as good as Ambrosini / van Bommel, both of which do his role and more far more effectively. Ambrosini's engine itself is magnificent with both offering far more going forward when it comes to goals and all round threat.

I put Ramelow there for tactical defensive reasons, not to score.

Simeone and Luis Enrique are good players, but there is not as bigger gulf in class between those and Ambrosini, van Bommel and de la Pena as there is between my defence and his.

Stop comparing 3 vs. 2. Van Bommel was accounted for when you picked on Ramelow (and you decided to stress Ambrosini as you know van Bommel is just a big bully).

Simeone and Luis Enrique is far stronger defensively and offensively relative to Ambrosini and De la Peña. I think you just wouldn't get as much of the ball as I would to begin with.

Up top Trezeguet, Salas and Rui Costa are more than a match for Forlan, Vieri and Zidane. I would say this battle is fairly even.

No they are not, see earlier post with scoring stats, etc. I am happy to admit Rui Costa's scoring stats are as irrelevant as Zidane's, their influence on a game came from a different source... and Zidane was much better.

As said my defence should win this battle for me as the gulf in class is far too great to be ignored. It seems it won't though for some reason when I feel this is the most obvious difference in the two sides.

I agree the most obvious difference is that Nesta is probably the best CB of this generation, but a man doesn't make a team or a win. I make up for that across the pitch through more possession and more options (I insist, you keep ignoring the fact your fullbacks have their path blocked and little support from an eminently centre mid spine, you just prefer to repeat that Serginho is better than Zanetti and play with words like "half bad>average").

Further to that, all the switching around in Antohan's side is a recipe for disaster. My team is far too disciplined and full of natural leaders.

I was very comfortable playing 4-3-3 and adapted to YOUR changes. All my players are comfortable in the roles they are playing and have played in those positions for a good part if not all their career.

Not sure what you are going on about with the discipline unless you mean I have more versatile inventive players who can roam around and you have some very disciplined but one-dimensional players.

The natural leaders bit is a joke, we have already established most of my team (including every single one of my midfield players) has been club or national team captain.

 

[Brwned]

It is unfortunate that the thread op gets replaced when changes are brought about.

You think? I'd say most people don't even see the changes until after they've voted if they're halfway down the page.

 

[TheReligion]

Nesta is far superior to Wes Brown and that's the real difference. Mind, this is not "Is Nesta better than Brown?" but can a certain XI beat another XI and Brown does a good job as Montero's partner. That's all I need him to do.

I would put Puyol comfortably ahead of Montero I expect he would be remembered that way for years to come. You are putting a good defender up against a fantastic one. Puyol has won UEFA defender of the year and been in UEFA team of the year on several occasions. He has also been in UEFA world cup team of the year and UEFA european team of the year. Montero has won nothing of note. There is a gulf between the two.

I put Ramelow there for tactical defensive reasons, not to score.

van Bommel is doing the same job to a much better standard yet offers goals if needs be. They same applys to Ambrosini. Both are better players and offer much more all round whilst doing the defensive role with ease

No they are not, see earlier post with scoring stats, etc. I am happy to admit Rui Costa's scoring stats are as irrelevant as Zidane's, their influence on a game came from a different source... and Zidane was much better.

The scoring stats between your forwards and mine are heavily in my favour as already stated. In this match my forwards have to get past Ramelow, Brown, Montero and Barthez whilst yours have to compete with Puyol, Nesta, van Bommel and Peruzzi .. It is a non contest


I agree the most obvious difference is that Nesta is probably the best CB of this generation, but a man doesn't make a team or a win. I make up for that across the pitch through more possession and more options (I insist, you keep ignoring the fact your fullbacks have their path blocked and little support from an eminently centre mid spine, you just prefer to repeat that Serginho is better than Zanetti and play with words like "half bad>average").

I am not sure why you are insisting my full backs have no support when they have the likes of Ambrosini and de la Pena to link up with. Mark van Bommel can easily mop up when one should go forward. Just because Zanetti can play right back doesn't mean no other centre mid is capable of plugging a gap!

Whatever the reason for the huge difference in votes I am baffled. Antohan has offered a good game and alot of thoughtful insight tactically, but the fact remains player for player my side is much stronger. It seems people are over looking the influence of Serginho out wide and citing my team as too narrow. Zidane, an attacking central midfielder, is being played wider to the left by Antohan who is getting his width from Candela and Brown (depending on which one is playing where) not particularly special in my honest opinion.

 

[Zen]

Now I did vote for you, partially because it's a bit lopsided unfairly, but your team isn't player for player "much better"

Centre backs(and goalie probably despite Barthezs good world cups) is the only place you can say that. Forwards and playmaker all swing antos way although Rui Costa isn't as far off Zidane as some might think, sensational player on his day and a perfect number 10, being too perfect that he wasn't able to change it up a bit when the classic 10 became dated.

Zanetti is easily the best full back on show here too.

 

[TheReligion]

Now I did vote for you, partially because it's a bit lopsided unfairly, but your team isn't player for player "much better"

Centre backs(and goalie probably despite Barthezs good world cups) is the only place you can say that. Forwards and playmaker all swing antos way although Rui Costa isn't as far off Zidane as some might think, sensational player on his day and a perfect number 10, being too perfect that he wasn't able to change it up a bit when the classic 10 became dated.

Zanetti is easily the best full back on show here too.

Zanetti is class but he is being played in the holding midfield role and in that area there is not much difference between he and van Bommel / Ambrosini.

I consider Trezeguet to be better and more complete than Vieri. I certainly at the least have them on par. Salas was superb at his peek and again I don't see a great deal of difference between he and Forlan.

My point is in the areas Antohan does excel the gulf in class is nowhere near the same as in the areas in which my side does

 

[kps88]

Looks like Zanetti's playing full back.

 

[TheReligion]

During the game he has played full back, holding midfielder and on the right wing...

 

[antohan]

You think? I'd say most people don't even see the changes until after they've voted if they're halfway down the page.

I'll post reply on the main thread as no one will come in here now.

 

[antohan]

During the game he has played full back, holding midfielder and on the right wing...

All roles he can play very proficiently

Good game mate, you've thrown a few good punches and some wobblies. Probably the same holds for me

Good luck going forward.