60s Girl Groups

Scrumpet

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When people talk about great music from the sixties, they normally concentrate most on the end of the decade, but the early sixties was a great period for pop music, with the many successful girl groups standing out in particular.

So which girl group do caftards like the most? I realise this may end up as a thread in which I talk to myself a lot but I don't care.

First up,

The Shangri-Las

shangri_las_b.jpg


They're probably not the best, but they're definitely my favourite. I love a song that tells a good story, even if it's an extremely melodramatic one, and that's what most of their songs did.

Their first hit was 'Remember (Walking in the sand)' and it's possibly their best. Aerosmith did a cover of it but don't let that put you off.



Their other most famous song is 'Leader of the Pack'. Like in a ridiulous amount of their songs, someone dies. I'm a bit worried that I only like this because it's old, and that would make me a twat. If something like this was released today I'd probably be whining about it in my Worst song you've heard this week thread, but for whatever reason I do like it. Here is a video of them performing it, the prat on the motorbike is Robert Goulet apparently.



This one, 'I can never go home anymore' is my favourite. It's just as melodramatic as the rest but it is quite sad; we get another tragic death of course.



But it's not all angst and tragedy, they did a few cheery love songs too. This one is thouroughly decent. Also, Mary is looking well here:



Finally a weird one. This wasn't a big hit for them, which isn't too surprising given it's a little unsettling.



What say you?
 
The Ronettes

ronettes.jpg


They were one of the most successful girl groups especially during the period they were being produced by visionary-mentalist-murderer extraordinaire, Phil Spector.

Their biggest hit was obviously 'Be My Baby'. Here is a video of them performing it to an audience that end up going a bit mental. They definitely knew how to work a crowd.



Another big hit was the similarly sounding and similarly named "Baby I Love You". A pattern may be developing, but I guess it wasn't broke, so they didn't fix it.





I think this is my favourite of theirs:




Anyway, none of that is important, what is important is that we establish just how someone who looked like this:

ronnie.jpg


ended up looking like this:

220px-Ronnie_Spector.jpg


I reckon Phil is to blame again.
 
I don't think I know of any other 60's girl group than The Supremes. That is unless they are actually a 70's group.
 
Snow said:
I don't think I know of any other 60's girl group than The Supremes. That is unless they are actually a 70's group.
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yeah they were 60s. Motown had a few other girl groups at that time too like Martha and the The Vandellas and The Marvelettes. People weren't too original when it came to naming band back then it seems.
 
I hear this music and I think of a Tarentino movie. Any of those songs could make a movie killer soundtrack.
 
I cannot thing of any girl group from the sixties that comes close to what Dusty Springfield was coming up with at the time.
 
Team Brian GB said:
Hit after hit and the influence for many solo singers for years to come?
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She didn't come up with any of them though did she? She was a singer who was handed a decent string of good songs. Much like many of these groups were. She had a great voice, but so did a collection of others of that era, like Franklin, Flack, James, Knight, LaVette etc. Trust Brian to not only chose the English one, but then give her credit for things devised and created largely by others. In a thread about groups no less.
 
That's a bit harsh on Dusty Springfield Mockney. Singers even when given a song have to interpret it in their own style and have a voice that's unique enough to make them stand out even when singing other peoples material.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
That's a bit harsh on Dusty Springfield Mockney. Singers even when given a song have to interpret it in their own style and have a voice that's unique enough to make them stand out even when singing other peoples material.
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True. And there's nothing wrong with Dusty, she was a great singer of the era, and a raving lesbian. Hell even Elvis didn't write his own songs, but I always feel the distinction should be made. Most of the "artists" of that era were just as cynically marketed products as the X Factor gimps of today (Gary Barlow > Elvis) and as such often get given more credit for their output than they necessarily deserve.

Though I mostly just wanted to make fun of Brian's achingly predictable middle aged middle England taste in soul music. "Gosh all this Motown stuff is rather black isn't it? Now that white English one who sings the Burt Bacharach numbers, that's more like it!" (Only joking Bri......sort of)

Incidentally, Mary Wies was only something like 15 when Walking in the Sand was made, and the Trinikas were in high school when they recorded Remember Me. Both great tunes btw though. What are the chances of both being taken seriously these days at that age?
 
Mockney said:
She didn't come up with any of them though did she? She was a singer who was handed a decent string of good songs. Much like many of these groups were. She had a great voice, but so did a collection of others of that era, like Franklin, Flack, James, Knight, LaVette etc. Trust Brian to not only chose the English one, but then give her credit for things devised and created largely by others. In a thread about groups no less.
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You do a disservice to singers in general, it is a singer who has to 'sell' a song and it is the singer that people adore, aspire to and are influenced by. It is no coincidence I chose an English singer, seeing as her influence on music in this country was larger than American music was at the time.

I could be pedantic and say she was in a group, but my point was that the best female singers at the time were solo stars and not in a group which to be fair has probably been always true.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
That's a bit harsh on Dusty Springfield Mockney. Singers even when given a song have to interpret it in their own style and have a voice that's unique enough to make them stand out even when singing other peoples material.
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That is a good point considering how in that era the same song was often peformed by a dozen singers within a couple of years of each other.
 
She still wasn't "coming up" with anything though. She was coming out with things, but not up with them. There's a large, distinct difference.
 
Is it really any surprise, Mockers is a writer is he not? But yeah, writers have always been undervalued and under-appreciated due to not being the "face" of the product quite often. It's the same deal for screen writers, criminally underrated in place for directors, when without a good script, even the best director can struggle to get anything respectable out of it. Though things have gotten a hell of a lot better I'd only assume, especially with the WGA strike.

Why that matters in this thread......I don't know
 
Mockney said:
She still wasn't "coming up" with anything though. She was coming out with things, but not up with them. There's a large, distinct difference.
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It depends on your definition of 'coming up' - writers did not release or perform any songs - she did. Songwriters came up with a concept and she realised them.

And as Irwin made the point singers have to make the emotional and defining connection which ultimately is the art in music - take 'My Way' for instance, it was recorded by Elvis, Andy Williams, Shirley Bassey and Nina Simone amongst others but popular culture recognises it as 'the' song of Frank Sinatra. Singers had to effectively battle it out with each other to release the definitive recording of a song and whose version came out on top was entirely down to the singer in question and not the writer.
 
Though it's probably generous to call me a writer (at least in any impressive capacity) it's true I see almost everything from that perspective. The creative always trumps the presentation for me. Screenwriters get a far worse deal than songwriters though. A good songwriter can at least live off a hit, and many go on to be widely known and respected (Bacharach for example, who wrote half of Springfield's hits) In film the directors often get credit with the layman for not just the story, but also the cinematography and editing, which in many cases are done completely without their input, save the final approval (though the better ones will make sure they do) ..The director's main job is to make sure the actors do what he wants them to. I think a lot of people would be surprised by just how little most directors do on a set.

I've gone completely off the reservation here though.


Team Brian GB said:
It depends on your definition of 'coming up'
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It doesn't. I'm pretty sure almost everyone's definition of "coming up with" would be writing or inventing. If your intention was to infer her inventing interpretations for her songs, then that wasn't what was conveyed. It came across very much as if you were giving her primary artistic credit for the songs.

As for the "singing is the main art" bit...well that's bollocks. The song can live or die by the singer, but the singer is nothing without the song. If not, then all of her songs should have been hits. There are many great singers who never got the songs to make them famous, and many shit ones who did.
 
Mockney said:
Though it's probably generous to call me a writer (at least in any impressive capacity) it's true I see almost everything from that perspective. The creative always trumps the presentation for me. Screenwriters get a far worse deal than songwriters though. A good songwriter can at least live off a hit, and many go on to be widely known and respected (Bacharach for example, who wrote half of Springfield's hits) In film the directors often get credit with the layman for not just the story, but also the cinematography and editing, which in many cases are done completely without their input, save the final approval (though the better ones will make sure they do) ..The director's main job is to make sure the actors do what he wants them to.

I've gone completely off the reservation here though.
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I don't doubt the importance of those who write or come up with the concept for songs, television and film and don't disagree with you in principle.
 
Mockney said:
It doesn't. I'm pretty sure almost everyone's definition of "coming up with" would be writing or inventing. If your intention was to infer her inventing interpretations for her songs, then that wasn't what was conveyed. It came across very much as if you were giving her primary artistic credit for the songs.

As for the "singing is the main art" bit...well that's bollocks. The song can live or die by the singer, but the singer is nothing without the song. If not, then all of her songs should have been hits. There are many great singers who never got the songs to make them famous, and many shit ones who did.
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With regard to the first paragraph you're were wrong on my meaning in the first instance, by coming up with I meant putting records out into the public domain if you will.

We could go round and round in circles on this one I am sure but in the sixties the same songs were performed again and again by different singers with one particular recording often standing out which is down to the performance of the song by the singer.
 
Team Brian GB said:
It depends on your definition of 'coming up' - writers did not release or perform any songs - she did. Songwriters came up with a concept and she realised them.

And as Irwin made the point singers have to make the emotional and defining connection which ultimately is the art in music - take 'My Way' for instance, it was recorded by Elvis, Andy Williams, Shirley Bassey and Nina Simone amongst others but popular culture recognises it as 'the' song of Frank Sinatra. Singers had to effectively battle it out with each other to release the definitive recording of a song and whose version came out on top was entirely down to the singer in question and not the writer.
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I agree with Mockney here. Doubtless great singers elevated the songs to levels they would not have reached without them, but they come in at the very last moment and sing on a track that will have taken months of effort to produce by songwriters, musicians and producers. They will have also had people working behind the scenes to get the right songs for them to sing. the singers add the icing to the top of a substantial cake.
 
Pablo76 said:
The Crystals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z11nYlIQP6E&feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUaUIwuU8so&feature=fvwrel

The Shirelles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2khQJGdnFE&feature=related

The Ronettes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu8tdXBkQhY&feature=related
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They're all great songs. 'Then he kissed me' is definitely one of my favourites.

Pablo76 said:
Only because they "toured" with my favourite band in the 60s, rankie Valli and the Four Seasons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97cwrG0gwg0
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Never heard this one before. Here's a video of them performing it:



The lead singer is a bit scary for some reason!
 
Not sure she'd be considered a "Girls Group" but . . . Nancy Sinatra - Frank's daughter was pretty much a one trick pony with this massive hit (maybe not so one trick, as she did have a couple of other minor hits). Great vintage video of a fantastic tune.

 
I'm just going to post more songs by The Shangri-Las because they're brilliant.









TV in the 60s was weird
 
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