50s Fantasy Draft - antohan v Polaroid

[Brwned]

My team will be playing in a 4-3-3 formation with some alterations from the previous one.

Polaroid's buildup is very central in nature and has that area overpopulated. That's why I've pulled back Falcao to assist Lerby in protecting the back four, breaking up, intercepting, shepherding Kempes and Susic towards my fullbacks and providing a pivot and cover when these are used as an outlet down the flanks.

As ever, the defence is solid, with two outstanding fullbacks who will make short work of the limited threat down the flanks and have the engine and ability to overlap with the wide men in attack.

The central midfield unit has three all-rounders who excel at retaining possesion, orchestrating moves, placing the killer pass and contributing to the attack in its final phase. That said, Falcao will mostly dictate from deep here and it will be mainly Schuster contributing in the final third. Conversely, the fullbacks will likely have more joy than in previous games.

All three midfielders had the determination and workrate to put in a good shift defensively while having the technique to provide a good outlet to transition from defence to attack.

The attack is mouthwatering, with two of the most eye-catching and effective wide players in any era. Either Simonsen or Boniek on a mazy run were electrifying and a terrifying prospect for any defence. For Morena you should have a look at the clips posted in his profile. He was a complete centreforward with a natural killer instinct and always -invariably- the first to any loose ball.

I'm confident the slight tactical switch addresses Polaroid's main strengths and keeps them in check, while my play remains fluid and packs the necessary punch to dismantle his defence.

PLAYER PROFILES (I suggest you treat yourself to the Boniek and Simonsen clips if nothing else

Team Polaroid

Tactics

4-2-3-1 formation with Cerezo and Bonhof shielding the defence, Kempes, Ceulemans and Susic supporting Rummenigge. Cerezo has the holding role covering for teammates and stringing up play with his movement and passing. Bonhof has the box-to-box role, where his ball delivery and cannonball shot can add to goal-scoring opportunities. Ceulemans has the brief of breaking forward to supplement the attack in the box. Susic is tasked to create goalscoring opportunities, dribbling at the defence, making killer passes or going for goal. Kempes has the freedom to drop deep or peel off wide to start off on his trademark surging runs.

Player Profiles

Spoiler

Player profiles
Harald "Toni" Schumacher
A key player in the West German side that won the European Championship in 1980 and reached consecutive World Cup finals (1982, 1986), Schumacher stands out in an era of great goalkeepers for his mental strength under pressure and ability to step up in major tournaments. Rightfully condemned for his foul on Battison in 1982, Schumacher nevertheless did not let the negative fallout affect his performances, turning in top-of-the-class performances at the UEFA European Championship (1984) and FIFA World Cup (1986). His instrumental role in West Germany’s run to the 1986 final was recognised with the Silver Ball award, behind Golden Ball winner Diego Maradona.
Team honours: 2 times FIFA World Cup runner-up, 1 UEFA European Championship, 2 Bundesliga titles, 3 DFB-Pokal, 1 Turkish league title
Individual honours: World Cup Silver Ball (1986), UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament (1984), 2 times German Footballer of the Year (1984, 1986)

Vladimir Bessonov
A Soviet all-time great who was equally brilliant in midfield and defence powering up and down the pitch with turbo-charged speed. Technically accomplished and blessed with a potent shot (scoring ratio of 1 in 10 for Dynamo Kyiv), his speed of thought and fleet of foot enabled him to steal a move ahead of his opponents.
Team honours: UEFA European Football Championship runner-up, 1988 Summer Olympics Gold Medal, 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup, 6 USSR league titles, 5 USSR Cups, 3 USSR Super Cups
Individual honours: FIFA U-20 World Cup Golden Ball (1977), Ukrainian Footballer of the Year (1989)

Jose Antonio Camacho
Real Madrid and Spanish all-time great, Camacho captained club and country in a long and illustrious career where he led by example and inspired teammates with his dedication to the cause. His legendary duels against Johann Cruyff and Dragan Dzajic cemented his status as one of the toughest defenders ever. Mario Kempes said this of Camacho "He was like a hunting dog; wherever you went on the pitch, he went. You knew that if you looked over your shoulder, he’d be there waiting for you. He didn’t talk either, he just breathed in a very strange way – “Fsst, Fsst, Fsst, Fsst”! A real nightmare"
Team honours: 9 Spanish La Liga titles, 5 Spanish Cups, 1 Spanish League Cup, 2 Spanish Supercups, 2 UEFA Cups, European Championship runner-up

Anton Ondrus
A Czechoslovakian legend who captained his team to the UEFA European Championship in 1976 and third place in 1980, Ondrus’s reading of the game and ability on the ball equipped him to initiate attacks from the back. His height and heading prowess also made him a dominant force in the air, as illustrated by his towering opener in the European Championship semi-final against Johann Cruyff’s Netherlands. The fairytale did not end there as Ondrus delivered another stellar display in the final against Beckanbauer’s West Germany, the reigning World and European champions. His leadership and nerveless penalty in the shootout after a two-all draw elevated Czechoslovakia to victory and the title of European Champions.
Team honours: 1 UEFA European Championship, 2 Czechoslovak League titles, Czechoslovak Cup
Individual honours: UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament (1976)

Willie Miller
Scotland’s greatest ever centre-back, Miller captained his country in an era where Scotland enjoyed abundance of riches in talent, his consistent excellence keeping the higher profile Alan Hansen out of the starting eleven. At club level, Miller dedicated his entire career to Aberdeen, leading them with great distinction as they broke the Old Firm monopoly and achieved success on the continental stage. In Aberdeen’s conquest of the 1983 Cup Winners Cup overcoming the likes of Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, Miller was their best player as he nullified the attacking threats of opponents. His excellence in the fundamentals of defending – his first-rate anticipation, impeccable positioning and the cleanest tackling led Sir Alex Ferguson to describe him as "The best penalty box defender in the world." Karl Heinz Rummenigge called him "The best defender I've ever played against"
Team honours: 1 European Cup Winners' Cup, 1 European Super Cup, 3 Scottish league titles, 4 Scottish Cups, 3 Scottish League Cups
Individual honours: SPFA Players' Player of the Year (1984), SFWA Footballer of the Year (1984)

Rainer Bonhof
An all-round powerhouse who could play in midfield and defence, Bonhof was a fixture in the West German national team throughout the seventies, contributing to their dazzling success in this historic era. Other than possessing boundless stamina and a bone-crunching tackle, Bonhof had possibly the hardest ever shot in football – one that had apprehensive opponents quaking in fear. His driving runs, precise passing technique and set-piece delivery were notable for providing valuable assists - he assisted Gerd Muller's winning goal in the 1974 World Cup final as well as 4 assists in the semi-final and final of the 1976 European Championship.
Team honours: FIFA World Cup (1974), 2 UEFA European Championship (1972, 1980), UEFA European Championship runner-up (1976), European Cup runner-up (1977), 1 UEFA Cup (1975), 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup (1980), 1 UEFA Super Cup (1980), 4 Bundesliga titles (1971, 1975, 1976, 1977), 1 DFB-Pokal (1973), 1 Copa del Rey (1979)
Individual honours: UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament (1976)

Toninho Cerezo
One of the finest centre midfielders Brazil has ever produced, Cerezo’s astute footballing brain, prescient awareness, indefatigable dynamism and superb range of passing enables him to act as a mobile pivot in stringing up play and provide an excellent platform for transitions from defence to attack. Tim Vickery has an apt description of Cerezo’s playing style “Few players have ever run a midfield with so much elegance. He received possession behind the line of the ball, giving him a full panorama of the action in front of him. He passed the ball long and short, and after giving it was immediately on the move to initiate the next phase, and he had an eye for the surprise, killer ball that undresses the defence.”
Team honours: 1 Copa Libertadores (1993), 2 times European Cup runner-up (1984, 1992), 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup (1989), 2 Intercontinental Cups (1992, 1993), Supercopa Libertadores (1993), 2 Recopa Sudamericana (1993, 1994), 9 Brazilian State Championships (1974, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1992), 1 Serie A title (1991), 4 Coppa Italia (1984, 1986, 1988, 1989)
Individual honours: Brazilian Golden Ball (1977, 1980), Brazilian Silver Ball (1976), Intercontinental Cup Final Man of the Match (1993)

Safet "Pape" Susic
An irrepressible genius who could make killer passes, dribble past defences and score goals, Susic starred for Yugoslavia and attained legendary status at FK Sarajevo and Paris St Germain. His dazzling brilliance frequently paid off with goals and assists such as his stunning hat-tricks against Argentina and Italy in 1979. He scored more than 170 goals in his club career, a staggering return. He was selected as the Golden Player of Bosnia and Herzegovina as their most outstanding player of the past 50 years and voted as Paris St Germain’s best player of all time ahead of George Weah, Rai, Ronaldinho and Luis Fernandez.
Gerd Muller on Susic "If you were to rank Safet Sušić with the all-time greats, you would have to put him in at least the top 40,"
Darko Pancev on Susic "For me he's unsurpassable, the best Yugoslavia had. Probably one of the best in the world. Pape was a treasure for every forward. His crosses were unbelievable."
Team honours: 1 French league title, 1 French Cup
Individual honours: UEFA French Ligue Foreign Player of the Year (1983), Yugoslav Footballer of the Year (1979), Yugoslav league topscorer (1980)

Jan Ceulemans
One of the best footballers in the world during the 80s, Ceulemans was the star player of the excellent Belgium side that reached the European Championship final in 1980 and the FIFA World Cup semi-final in 1986. He further endeared himself to fellow Belgians by turning down AC Milan to stay with Club Brugges in Belgium. Nicknamed Captain Courageous, Ceulemans was like a formidable force of nature, an unrelenting hurricane storming and tearing through the pitch with fearsome pace and power. He had a Rolls Royce engine that motored him to cover every blade of grass and still bomb forward to score goals (over 250 in his career). He had remarkable balance and extraordinary technique that belied his 6 foot 2 frame, enabling him to run with the ball at pace, beat players and score goals in a variety of ways from powering in a bullet header to thunderbolt shots.
Team honours: 4 Belgian League titles, 2 Belgian Cups, 5 Belgian Supercups
Individual honours: FIFA World Cup All-Stars (1986), UEFA European Championship Team of the tournament (1980), 3 times Belgian Footballer of the Year, 3 times Belgian Golden Shoe

Mario Kempes
The cutting edge and decisive factor in Argentina’s triumphant World Cup campaign of 1978, Kempes scored 6 goals en-route to winning the Golden Boot, the Golden Ball and the World Cup in a clean sweep - the first player in World Cup history to do so. Kempes was blessed with explosive pace and matador-like balance, which combined with his strength, work-rate, flair and finesse, make him an utter nightmare to defend against. Fond of dropping into midfield or peeling off wide to start his powerful surging runs, he terrorized defences, carving them up like a hot knife through butter to set up teammates or unleash deadly strikes at goal. In his first season with Valencia, he topped the La Liga scoring charts with 24 league goals, repeating his Pinnichi feat the following season with 28, the highest total since Alfredo Di Stefano in 1956-57. At his prime for Valencia, he averaged more than 2 goals every 3 games. Cesar Luis Menotti on Kempes “He's strong, he's got skill, he creates spaces and he shoots hard. He's a player who can make a difference, and he can play in a centre-forward position."
Team honours: 1 FIFA World Cup, 1 UEFA Cup Winners Cup, 1 UEFA Super Cup, 1 Nacional championship title, 1 Copa del Rey
Individual honours: FIFA World Cup Golden Ball (1978), FIFA World Cup Golden Boot (1978), FIFA World Cup All-Stars (1978), South American Footballer of the Year (1978), Argentina Footballer of the Year (1978), La Liga topscorer (1977, 1978)

Karl Heinz Rummenigge
One of the best forwards in footballing history and a leading contender for the title of the 2nd greatest German footballer ever. A phenomenal footballing Rolls Royce with a frightening blend of pace, power, control and skill, Rummenigge was the quintessential complete forward. His awareness, intelligence and technique augmented the quality of his movement, passing and finishing, enabling him to play anywhere across the frontline with consummate ease, starting and finishing off moves with equal ******.
Team honours: 2 times FIFA World Cup runner-up, 1 UEFA European Championship, 2 Europeans Cups, 2 Bundesliga titles, 1 Intercontinental Cup, 2 German Cups, 1 German Supercup
Individual honours: 2 times Ballon d'Or (1980, 1981), FIFA World Cup Bronze Ball (1982), FIFA World Cup All-Stars (1982), German Footballer of the Year (1980), 3 times Bundesliga topscorer (1980, 1981, 1984), European Cup topscorer (1981)

Sub: Reinaldo
In a career hampered by serious injuries and off-the-field issues, Reinaldo nevertheless shone brightly in the time he was given. His scoring average in the 1977 season (1.55 goals per game) remains a Brazilian league record and his 255 goals for Atlético Mineiro is its all-time club record. His astounding ability to grasp timing and space, his silky technique in manipulating the ball, his audacious composure in finishing all live long in the memories of the fans who revere him as “The King”
Team honours: 8 Campeonato Mineiro titles
Individual honours: Campeonato Mineiro topscorer (1977)

 

[Gio]

Tactically and man-for-man the two teams are hard to seperate.

 

[The Don]

For me, the players that stand out to me are Kempes, Ceulemans and Rummenige on one side and Falcao, Schuster and Boniek on the other. I think I'll wait to see some more discussion and arguments for both teams before I make my decision.

 

[Polaroid]

Surprised to see Antohan pull back Falcao, honoured in a way because it is a recognition of my team's strengths.

Apparently my front 4 are not that highly rated among voters so here are some videos which can hopefully change your mind

Kempes




Susic (featuring his hat-trick against the world champions Argentina in 79)



Ceulemans

 

[Polaroid]

Bonhof's trademark cannonball shot against Liverpool's Ray Clemence



Bessonov

 

[antohan]

Surprised to see Antohan pull back Falcao, honoured in a way because it is a recognition of my team's strengths

I do rate your front four as individuals. I'm not too convinced about the way you have deployed them or how effectively they would operate jointly. But I do have to respect their individual quality.

You clearly don't have two actual wide players there like others do (myself included). The result is that I cannot expect them to be in my fullbacks pockets. For my fullbacks to keep tabs on them they would have to be woefully out of position. Further, Lerby alone -insanely hardworking as he is- would not be enough to deal with whatever combined play they attempt. The danger really would be that all four advance centrally on my two CBs and rather than tuck in my fullbacks way too narrow I'd rather they kept the shape, tucking in as and when but get the protection coming from those two midfielders. As said, all they need to do is shepherd them down the flank and into a dead end called Gerets or Briegel.

I'm confident your four would not break down my six and my fullbacks could bomb forward more freely this way, pivoting with Falcao/Lerby without having to worry much about jepopardising the defence.

Every player in my side is a good footballer, composed and with good passing so I'm confident of building up play effectively, although the standouts clearly are Falcao and Schuster spraying passes.

On the other hand, while my fullbacks can contribute in attack overlapping with my wide forwards, yours are as good as dead if they even venture as far as the halfway line. Boniek and Simonsen would tear them a new one. Even with them pegged back, you have a massive task ahead controlling those two and my fullbacks, Morena and Schuster arriving in the box, with Lerby and Falcao coming from deeper and being expert long range shooters.

All in all, it is a sign of respect, but also a tactical move to ensure the outcome is not left to chance. It will be a controlled and effective performance with players ideally suited for the roles they need to perform.

 

[antohan]

We all have pretty clips

RINAT DASAYEV
Do notice the speed, distance and accuracy of his throws (see video from 2:28). Ideal for a side with the potential for devastating counters.



ZBIGNIEW BONIEK
Just ignore the endless replays of the first goal, clearly was a big deal for this Polish fan, but the good stuff comes after it


ALLAN SIMONSEN


FERNANDO MORENA
The only player ever to have been so good and so sorely missed the fans themselves raised the -transfer record- money required to bring him back from Valencia after one season (in which he was the top scorer, not Kempes).

About 10mins of goals from the 70s (black and white)


All his league goals after his return late in 1981. Includes his goals and some misses from the 1982 Libertadores campaign.


Scoring the winner in the last minute of the Libertadores final (despite the defender pushing him and throwing him off balance)


5:25 to 9:20 all his league goals from 1982


Goals against Nacional and 1983 Libertadores


His brief return after his career-ending injury: 0:28 to 2:48
Short collection of goals at the end: 4:55 to 6:15

 

[Polaroid]

I do rate your front four as individuals. I'm not too convinced about the way you have deployed them or how effectively they would operate jointly. But I do have to respect their individual quality.

You clearly don't have two actual wide players there like others do (myself included). The result is that I cannot expect them to be in my fullbacks pockets. For my fullbacks to keep tabs on them they would have to be woefully out of position. Further, Lerby alone -insanely hardworking as he is- would not be enough to deal with whatever combined play they attempt. The danger really would be that all four advance centrally on my two CBs and rather than tuck in my fullbacks way too narrow I'd rather they kept the shape, tucking in as and when but get the protection coming from those two midfielders. As said, all they need to do is shepherd them down the flank and into a dead end called Gerets or Briegel.

I'm confident your four would not break down my six and my fullbacks could bomb forward more freely this way, pivoting with Falcao/Lerby without having to worry much about jepopardising the defence.

Every player in my side is a good footballer, composed and with good passing so I'm confident of building up play effectively, although the standouts clearly are Falcao and Schuster spraying passes.

On the other hand, while my fullbacks can contribute in attack overlapping with my wide forwards, yours are as good as dead if they even venture as far as the halfway line. Boniek and Simonsen would tear them a new one. Even with them pegged back, you have a massive task ahead controlling those two and my fullbacks, Morena and Schuster arriving in the box, with Lerby and Falcao coming from deeper and being expert long range shooters.

All in all, it is a sign of respect, but also a tactical move to ensure the outcome is not left to chance. It will be a controlled and effective performance with players ideally suited for the roles they need to perform.

My front 4 were primarily picked for their
1) pace and ability to beat men
2) intelligence, adaptability and two-footedness
3) work-rate and stamina
4) goals (All 4 topscored in the league, Rummenigge in the European cup, Kempes won the Golden Ball and Golden Boot at the World Cup)
Kempes, Susic and Ceulemans are at their best attacking from deep, running at pace, beating men, drawing opponents out of position, opening up space for teammates or themselves to score. Rummenigge is a two-time Ballon d'Or winner and the best forward in this competition, with all-round capabilities on the ground and in the air. Lining them up as an attacking trident utilises their best qualities, making use of their adaptability and mobility in interchanging roles whether it is attacking channels, dropping deep or peeling off wide for an extremely fluid and unpredicatable offence

Bessonov is one of the few fullbacks who are as fast as Boniek (see video in earlier post)
Camacho had marked Cruyff and Dzajic out of games, with all due respect to Simonsen, he is not on the same level as those two.
Schuster is more of a playmaker who spray passes than one who attacks the box a la Robson or Ceulemans. You are really relying on Morena in the box as Boniek (11 goals in 28 games from his best season) and Simonsen (18 goals in 34 games from his best season) are not that prolific.

There is no significant difference between our formations - just that you have wide men primarily hugging the touchline while I expect mine to be more of inside forwards with the options to attack the channels, drop into midfield or peel off wide. This makes my lines of attack more varied and unpredictable. In tight matches, having prolific goalscorers make all the difference - Rummenigge (39 goals from 45 games), Kempes (39 goals from 46 games), Ceulemans (29 goals from 34 games) and this is where my team has the edge over yours.

 

[antohan]

Interesting, you describe all your frontmen in very similar terms yet call them unpredictable. There isn't really much space for them to play in their preferred way either.

More to the point, you quote scoring stats and achievements as the main men responsible for goals with an entire team playing to service them and create the conditions for them to perform. The problem is the simple addition of all their great achievements amounts to nothing if they are all trying to do the same thing while the platform that made them successful is absent.

Too many cooks spoil the broth. You chucked in so many similar players that you lack balance, variety and therefore unpredictability.

On the other hand, you belittle Boniek and Simonsen treating them as no more than touchline hugging pace merchants with poorer scoring records. Nothing further from the truth. They fit the team and tactics well and can create as well as score goals. They are also much more unpredictable players than any of your front four.

Most of your front four's play is about powerful runs (newsflash honey, they are facing no pushovers). They are not mazy dribblers or tricksters. Boniek and Simonsen both played more centrally as well, also as strikers or support strikers, and they pretty much can hurt you anywhere across the front. Just check Boniek's hat-trick against Belgium in 82 and witness how silly it is to refer to him as a line-hugger (or vote on the back of such delusional comments). He was simply irrepressible... devastatingly unplayable in that mood.



"He is a special player, the best in the world in his position" - Maradona

"There are more famous players, but none better. A player like Boniek just has to be unleashed" - Pelé

"He was a brilliant goalscorer and one of the most disruptive creators I have ever seen" - Bearzot

"The top scorer in the league will be whoever has Boniek as his partner" - Platini (after Boniek left Juve, when asked if he would make it four years on the trot as top Serie A scorer - the top scorer that year turned out to be Boniek's partner at Roma)

In the meantime, you just seemed to be referring to David Bellion.

You mention Schuster being more of a playmaker who sprays passes and that's exactly what I want him to do. He is not in the hole, just in a more advanced position to Falcao who was stronger at DM while Schuster was more mobile and thus better suited to that advanced playmaking role. He did attack the box (see Germany-Netherlands in 1980) and I expect him to do so in more advanced phases.

You also overlook the fact my fullbacks will have a lot more freedom to support the attack. Fact is, for all your ranting about your frontmen coming deep, playing inside or peeling wide, they are significantly more predictable in their play and getting in each other's way, thus easier to defend against.

There's only one side with real creative spark here and in games like these, that is what gets goals scored.

 

[antohan]

This is really disappointing. No votes, no comments, no feedback...

After three car-less weeks, I rented one and I've been on the road yesterday and today visiting customers and ongoing projects across the country. I really was hoping what little time I have to log on properly would be of some use but nowt.

As yesterday, I expect to log on again later and find another bout of stats and vids has prompted people to vote for Polaroid.

 

[Interval]

How do the wingers stack up, according to you, anothan? I see you marginally winning the center of midfield. But I see his team beiing too direct and dangerous.

 

[KM]

The draft games in the newbies are getting more than 50 votes every game

 

[antohan]

How do the wingers stack up, according to you, anothan? I see you marginally winning the center of midfield. But I see his team beiing too direct and dangerous.

Not sure who you are referring to as wingers. Kempes? A winger? Susic? They could operate as attacking midfielders doing some wide work but really weren't out and out wing players in any shape or form. The odd thing is instead of approaching the game as if they were out-of-position wingers I chose to acknowledge they probably wouldn't play that way at all and that seems to have helped Pol

What I find strange here is Polaroid got stuffed two games straight, the moment I come along and make a tactical switch acknowledging his strengths he seems to come to life and suddenly be this mean machine no one had seen before????

Neither is the case in my view. He has an overload of direct, powerful, forwards who were very successful. I respect the individuals, but I can't see the stack-up-almost-identical-players approach working at all. I just needed to put some more bite deeper in midfield and that would be sorted. They will keep running into blind alleys and dispossession.

Going back to your question, I can't compare the wingers because he doesn't have any. As far as my wide players go, it's simple, if I made the final they would both be on my wings, no matter who I met along the way. Only Blokhin would make me mull over whether to drop either of them.

 

[antohan]

Have to hit the road now. Will try find somewhere with a wi-fi connection for lunch.

But seriously, think, which team is bound to have a better grip on the game, greater creativity, invention and ability to fashion breakthroughs?

And if unsure about any specific players, just ask, that's the point of these games.

Stats and medals are all well and good but they are attained in different sides, setup differently, playing different opposition... They are an indication of quality, not much else.

I made a point of not picking a single WC winner (although 2-3 of them could make me give up on that stance). Ryan Giggs never played in a World Cup, let alone win one or its goldenballs and boots. He is twice the player half the World Cup winners in history were though.

The question is how the XI at hand would work, jointly, against the opposition presented.

 

[antohan]

Good comeback this. Thanks to all those who chipped in

 

[Brwned]

You're up next antohan, up against Gio for your last game of the groups. So once you PM me all the stuff I'll set that up tomorrow morning.