4-4-2 and now 4-4-1-1

lchk

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Last year 4-4-2 was supposedly making us look predictable

This year 4-4-1-1 didn't work in the semis and DID make us look like muppets for both matches until we switched to 4-4-2

Conclusion is tactics are customized differently for each opponent - I don't believe there's a one size fits all kind of thing when it comes to tactics
 
Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>Last year 4-4-2 was supposedly making us look predictable

This year 4-4-1-1 didn't work in the semis and DID make us look like muppets for both matches until we switched to 4-4-2

Conclusion is tactics are customized differently for each opponent - I don't believe there's a one size fits all kind of thing when it comes to tactics</strong><hr></blockquote>
i just couldnt resist this - you miserable twat

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
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Originally posted by spare ribs:
<strong>
i just couldnt resist this - you miserable twat

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

A little education never hurt anybody ;)
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Originally posted by spare ribs:
<strong>
i just couldnt resist this - you miserable twat

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Forgot to mention - what do you know about tactics besides 8-0-2?

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" />
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Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>

Forgot to mention - what do you know about tactics besides 8-0-2?

<img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by spare ribs:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

The ribs dipper has surfaced from his rancid bbq sauce at such perfect timing

Why is it always so predictable? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by pathfinder:
<strong>how many times have we gone through this feckin thread of 4-4-1-1 and 4-4-2 ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Precisely. That's what I am saying - tactics are different for each opponent, there's no one size fits all.
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It's funny how none of this was an issue before we signed JSV. All of these different permutations and tactical experiments have been designed to do one thing and one thing only: to accomodate the talents of a great midfielder who, in truth, we did not need and should never have signed.

Does anyone seriously believe that we would have done worse last night with Ole and Ruud up front and a midfield of Giggs, Keane, Butt and Scholes?
 
Originally posted by
wythykid:
It's funny how none of this was an issue before we signed JSV. All of these different permutations and tactical experiments have been designed to do one thing and one thing only: to accomodate the talents of a great midfielder who, in truth, we did not need and should never have signed.
Does anyone seriously believe that we would have done worse last night with Ole and Ruud up front and a midfield of Giggs, Keane, Butt and Scholes?

<hr></blockquote>

Oh YEAH! Do you realy think Giggs and Scholes did anything that night, HUHH? :mad:
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Originally posted by kemo:
<strong>Originally posted by
wythykid:


Oh YEAH! Do you realy think Giggs and Scholes did anything that night, HUHH? :mad: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course they didn't but that doesn't negate my argument. If anything it strengthens it.

We're told repeatedly that it makes no sense to leave a player of Veron's pedigree on the bench. Does it make more sense to leave a 25-goal striker in the form of his life on the bench?? Can you see Hasselbaink, Gudjohnsen, Henry, Owen or Shearer being left on the bench for the biggest game of the season?
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Ok, I do like Veron and was excited he was signed this past off-season. However, I was extremely confused why SAF felt the team needed to add another world class midfielder that boasted 5 world class midfielders (Becks, Keano, Giggs, Scholes, Butt). I felt SAF should have pursued a world class CB harder and not let a 20m pricetag scare the board off. Then, he should have brought in a quality backup at wing (McManaman?). He should also have dealt with the Cole/Yorke/Stam situations prior or after the season ended.

However, none of us work for United, so we don't know what went on behind the scenes. It's all opinion (maybe this is why there is a forum <img src="graemlins/houllier.gif" border="0" alt="[Houllier]" /> )
 
If the last match told us anything about formation it's that you need to design a formation suitable for the players, not asking the players to adjust to your predefinied formation. It's non-sense to insist in 4-4-1-1 formation if we need to leave our best form striker on the bench and ask two midfielders to play out of their positions in order to adjust to the formation.
 
Originally posted by uranushk1:
<strong>If the last match told us anything about formation it's that you need to design a formation suitable for the players, not asking the players to adjust to your predefinied formation. It's non-sense to insist in 4-4-1-1 formation if we need to leave our best form striker on the bench and ask two midfielders to play out of their positions in order to adjust to the formation.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Precisely.

But making that point is frowned upon.
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We shouldn't bother playing 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 in the future. We have enough weapons to go with a 4-4-2 and I suspect that Fergie has learned his lessons in that regard. That early experimentation with playing Scholes up front cost us dearly imo.
 
Is there a statistician in the house?

Results please for 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1, and 4-4-2. Allowing for the change in system during a game.
 
Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Is there a statistician in the house?

Results please for 4-5-1, 4-4-1-1, and 4-4-2. Allowing for the change in system during a game.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That alone wouldn't be completely fair. We used the 4-4-2 mainly against weaker opposition, so it will no doubt have much higher percentage.
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Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

That alone wouldn't be completely fair. We used the 4-4-2 mainly against weaker opposition, so it will no doubt have much higher percentage.</strong><hr></blockquote>


And 4-5-1 against stronger opposition and lost more?
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4-4-2
Losses
3-1 vs Liverpool
2-1 to Bolton.
1-0 to Westham
1-0 to middlesborogh
3-0 to Chelsea.

Wins:
Benfica and Nantes only at OT. Lost most 4-4-2 away games vs tough opponents. At home apart from Newcastle what tough opposito did we beat with 4-4-2. Didn't most of our losses come from it?

4-5-2
losses:
3-1 to Arsenal away.
1-0 to liverpool at OT.
2-1 to Depo away.

wins:
3-0 vs Chelsea
3-0 and 2-0 vs Boavista whom llivererpoll couldn't beat.
2-0 vsOlympiakos away plus 3-0 at home.
2-0 vs Depo away and 3-2 at home.

In the Prem:
11 draw with Leeds plus 4-3 away win.
Need I say more.
4-4-2 is only for OT plus weaklings. Away 4-5-1 against premtoughies plus all Euro games. :cool:
 
Feck the formation for a moment, can someone tell me the answer to this - in 16 european games, how many times did we start with eleven men in their natural position (assuming that Giggs up front is 'in position' but Scholes and Veron up front aren't)?
 
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