2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

[gaffs]

Honestly though, so much of this can be laid at the feet of Obama. He was granted a once in a lifetime opportunity to build a lasting governing majority in the mold of FDR. Came into office with overwhelming support and a clear mandate, but let his legislative inexperience and conservative instincts took over and failed to deliver on a signature policy (public option/M4A) or robust reforms (Glass Steagal revival/Wall St. prosecution for the financial crisis) that could've cemented the goodwill to the Dems for a generation, also failed to use the bully pulpit to communicate directly to voters in the style of the fireside chats to bypass legacy media/right wing disinformation network, or let the grassroots organisation that fueled his campaign to be dismantled and retreat from rural areas, letting Republicans recover and run unopposed in thousands of state legislative seats that won the 2010 census and created a damnningly tilted playing field for them ever since. Despite his electoral success, his party has been in rough shape ever since, riven by the established interests that adopted him and the activists wing that was the fuel for his rise, that is also increasingly marginalised and engulfed in internecine squabble themselves (Sanders/AOC being disowned by DSA)

It feels like the US have missed the boat this time, the 1939 Nazis were *in* government, the 2024 Nazis are now the government.

A lot of truth hera, but lets remember Obama only had two years where Democrats controlled the three branches of Government. There was always going to be a reaction to his presidency, which we saw in 2010 with the tea party movement.

He passed a lot of regulation in his first two years including the ACA, Dodd-Frank and the ARA post the 2007-08 financial crisis and a tax relief bill, among many others.

 

[Wibble]

There is, and there is time for jokes, but minorities are actually being put through it today. Plenty of people are bashing Black men, Arab Americans and Latinos today. As if they should just fall in line and not get their say?

Nothing wrong with making fun of people who make incredibly shit choices (joke dependent of course), entirely against their own self interest. Like Turkeys voting for an extra Christmas and Thanksgiving day every year.

 

[Suedesi]

I’d rather not blame the electorate for the Democrats’ gross incompetence and complete mismanagement of the election process

 

[Redivy]

Nothing wrong with making fun of people who make incredibly shit choices, entirely against their own self interest. Like Turkeys voting for an extra Christmas and Thanksgiving day every year.

Thats fine if you hold that opinion, but you should be fine with Trump and his team making shit jokes about other minorities etc Puerto Rico joke made at the rally.

You can believe you're justified, but so will Trump followers.

Politics will never cease to amaze me. Left and Right wing followers are much closer than they think.

Anyway, useless getting stuck into this because no matter which side you sit on, thats where you will stay.

 

[sullydnl]

Nothing wrong with angry people on a football forum taking mocking swipes at others who voted against their own self-interest.

But I'd hope the people who actually have to run mid-terms and an alternative Presedential candidate in two/four years go through a more self-reflective and self-critical process. Because they're the ones who need to change, not the people who voted Trunp.

One Trump presidency you could dismiss as a historical fluke. Him winning two out of three election attempt against the background of everything he has done stops being a "them" problem and starts being an "us" problem.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I’d rather not blame the electorate for the Democrats’ gross incompetence and complete mismanagement of the election process

Not American, but if you elect vile thundercunts to lead you, then you deserve some of the blame. The nation itself cannot absolve itself for its own decisions. This idea that the people are just innocent sheep is too convenient.

Just like I do also partly blame my fellow countrymen for the fascist regime we’ve chosen, repeatedly. That doesn’t mean I don’t think the alternatives have been disappointing at various times and that there’s things those people could do better, much better.

 

[gaffs]

There is, and there is time for jokes, but minorities are actually being put through it today. Plenty of people are bashing Black men, Arab Americans and Latinos today. As if they should just fall in line and not get their say?

Nothing wrong with making fun of people who make incredibly shit choices (joke dependent of course), entirely against their own self interest. Like Turkeys voting for an extra Christmas and Thanksgiving day every year.

Agree with @Redivy here. Not everyone is politically engaged. Very few people are on the internet in the evening, discussing the pro's and con's of a particular policy. Working men who may have crappy low paid jobs may just want to go home, look after their families, drink a beer and watch sport. Trump was able to appeal to them and turn them out them with very simple messaging.

I think if anyone needs making fun of, it is Democrats for either forgetting these people, or not being able to reach them with a message they understand, especially when many are feeling the inflationary squeeze.

 

[Abizzz]

I’d rather not blame the electorate for the Democrats’ gross incompetence and complete mismanagement of the election process

100% agree that it would be stupid for democrat politicians, tacticians etc. to do so.

However outsiders are as entitled to their view as voters are to their vote.

 

[R'hllor]

There is, and there is time for jokes, but minorities are actually being put through it today. Plenty of people are bashing Black men, Arab Americans and Latinos today. As if they should just fall in line and not get their say?

Bashing just shows how full of shit and fake those people are, specially with their virtue signaling, trying to paint themself in certain light but when real shit hits the fan, masks fall off and all goes through the window.

 

[gaffs]

Bashing just shows how full of shit and fake those people are, specially with their virtue signaling, trying to paint themself in certain light but when real shit hits the fan, masks fall off and all goes through the window.

You should repost some of these. I have not seen them, but I bet they won't have come from the left leaning members that have provided great content on this thread for the last couple of years. Many people have jumped on in the last 48 hours and posted a lot of BS and half baked takes.

 

[gaffs]

It has been a tough 24 hours. Not afraid to say i have shed a tear or two because I just know Trump will take a wrecking ball to the country I call home. Not to mention what I think he will do with regards to his America First foreign policy. We will all be worse off at the end of his four years.

I think Kamala ran a good campaign, all things considered. The issue was her association with Biden. She didn't do enough to separate from him, possibly for fear of looking like she was throwing herself under the bus. Plus, at a time when the economy was the number one issue, she wasn't strong enough on the topic. Perhaps that was due to having so little time to work out her messaging - normally candidates have months to poll test their messaging and policy. But even with the smartest of messaging and policy, it is likely she was always heading for a loss.

Biden had a 40% job approval rating, so by association, she shouldered a lot of that. The major take from the exit polls, plus opinion polls prior, was that 70% of people thought that the country was on the wrong track.

I have said this before on this thread but of the 3,244 counties in the USA, wages have outpaced cost of living in only 5 of them over the past 8 years. This goes to show that people are feeling the squeeze of inflation, especially because we wont see prices drop now companies realize what the public can pay. The inflation headwinds were far too tough to run against when that inflation has hit hardest post COVID, thus pinned on Biden.

I have had many conversations with posters on this thread that argued that the economy was great because of metric a, b or c, but the fact is, people are not feeling it when the price of rent, food, insurance etc outpaces wage growth. People have to remember, the median average savings an American individual has is $8,000. With that, many people are, or not far from, living paycheck to paycheck.

That gave Trump a very easy message - "you were better off under Trump" or "Harris will be a continuation of Biden".

You add the mismanagement of the border to the mix, and I think it was impossible for Biden or Harris, or probably any Democrat Governor, Senator or House member to beat Trump.

The only person who may have been able to beat him may have been an outsider. Someone like Mark Cuban, a celebrity businessman, who is a clear communicator, can be trusted on economic matters and not tarnished by previously having a D next to his name. But even then, Trump would still have the upper hand as he has the track record to show that prices were lower during his administration.

What gives me hope that the Democrats will be back in in four years time, is that I believe Trump will fail to do anything for those who have voted for him. Especially those I mentioned living paycheck to pay check. His economic policy will be the same old Republican "trickle down economics". My 401k may boom for a while, until he does something the markets dont like, but the prices of good and services won't, and i don't believe his policy will increase wages of workers - only CEO pay.

Will also say, there has been some great content on this thread for the past year, and longer. Thanks @Raoul for moderating and always keeping the conversations moving.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The issue with the democrats that I can see is that A) they didn’t seem to do too well on some key metrics over the last 4 years in government but more importantly B) they don’t connect to the common man as well as Republican do. Just talking to people far far away here - even if I don’t like their tolerance for racism, sexism and all the abhorrent thing Trump stands for - they find him interesting for whatever reason. On the other hand, I keep hearing about Kamala being rehearsed and corporate in her demeaner using catch phrases rather than honest down to earth language. While I personally don’t like voting based on charisma and podcast interview skills as politicians aren’t entertainers, sadly that is where we are.

Even if you’re not a TV personality per se - you have to win hearts. Kamala didn’t win the hearts of people.

 

[Raoul]

It has been a tough 24 hours. Not afraid to say i have shed a tear or two because I just know Trump will take a wrecking ball to the country I call home. Not to mention what I think he will do with regards to his America First foreign policy. We will all be worse off at the end of his four years.

I think Kamala ran a good campaign, all things considered. The issue was her association with Biden. She didn't do enough to separate from him, possibly for fear of looking like she was throwing herself under the bus. Plus, at a time when the economy was the number one issue, she wasn't strong enough on the topic. Perhaps that was due to having so little time to work out her messaging - normally candidates have months to poll test their messaging and policy. But even with the smartest of messaging and policy, it is likely she was always heading for a loss.

Biden had a 40% job approval rating, so by association, she shouldered a lot of that. The major take from the exit polls, plus opinion polls prior, was that 70% of people thought that the country was on the wrong track.

I have said this before on this thread but of the 3,244 counties in the USA, wages have outpaced cost of living in only 5 of them over the past 8 years. This goes to show that people are feeling the squeeze of inflation, especially because we wont see prices drop now companies realize what the public can pay. The inflation headwinds were far too tough to run against when that inflation has hit hardest post COVID, thus pinned on Biden.

I have had many conversations with posters on this thread that argued that the economy was great because of metric a, b or c, but the fact is, people are not feeling it when the price of rent, food, insurance etc outpaces wage growth. People have to remember, the median average savings an American individual has is $8,000. With that, many people are, or not far from, living paycheck to paycheck.

That gave Trump a very easy message - "you were better off under Trump" or "Harris will be a continuation of Biden".

You add the mismanagement of the border to the mix, and I think it was impossible for Biden or Harris, or probably any Democrat Governor, Senator or House member to beat Trump.

The only person who may have been able to beat him may have been an outsider. Someone like Mark Cuban, a celebrity businessman, who is a clear communicator, can be trusted on economic matters and not tarnished by previously having a D next to his name. But even then, Trump would still have the upper hand as he has the track record to show that prices were lower during his administration.

What gives me hope that the Democrats will be back in in four years time, is that I believe Trump will fail to do anything for those who have voted for him. Especially those I mentioned living paycheck to pay check. His economic policy will be the same old Republican "trickle down economics". My 401k may boom for a while, until he does something the markets dont like, but the prices of good and services won't, and i don't believe his policy will increase wages of workers - only CEO pay.

She ran a decent campaign given the condensed timeline but still ran into two fundamental problems. The first was out of her control and the second was simply a miscalculation of strategy.

First, she faced the same predictable headwinds of being a woman running for President in a highly masculinized country. This is evidenced by the fact that both Hillary and Harris were much more competent than Trump, and still got trounced. Whereas a fading, 76 year old Biden came out of retirement and smashed him with an unprecedented 81m votes. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions as to why.

Second, Harris herself despite being more competent than Trump on policy, was simply not a good communicator about articulating a vision that assuaged the anxieties of voters. She miscalculated badly by thinking abortion and “democracy is on the ballot”, and simply not being Trump would be enough. It wasn’t, and so even if she actually earned the nomination (instead of inheriting it) and had a full year to develop a proper campaign, having the wrong strategy would’ve still resulted in her losing badly.

Hopefully the Dems do a proper autopsy that results in ditching the entire Obama/Biden/Harris mafia and start afresh with a new approach with a new lineup of candidates.

 

[R'hllor]

You should repost some of these. I have not seen them, but I bet they won't have come from the left leaning members that have provided great content on this thread for the last couple of years. Many people have jumped on in the last 48 hours and posted a lot of BS and half baked takes.

Its out there to see, media pushing blame narratives, people on socials wishing all the worst towards minorities, its like classic example of before and after, turns out they are similar to cnuts on other side, difference is other cnuts dont pretend to be something they aint.

 

[Wibble]

I think it’s most commonly encountered these days in the workplace or professional setting where certain HR mandated training has become much more commonplace around the trans issue, together with the use of pronouns. This has come about with good intentions perhaps but speech mandates of any kind have consequences for freedom of thought, and the trans issue is probably the most clear and obvious current example of that. It creates a kind of cognitive dissonance in people which many or most individuals simply can’t brush off.

Utter nonsense. Such training is based around language that is discriminatory and encourages common courtesy i.e. don't use terminology that will upset people (often on purpose). The equivalent in the past would be training that discourage language that was wildly sexist in a professional context e.g. calling women "love", "darling" or "girlie" or just reducing the importance of women by calling them girls. Nobody in their right minds would find that acceptable in a professional work environment now, so why people are finding guidance on LDBTI+ matters so upsetting is beyond me. Or rather it isn't as we all know where it comes from.

 

[sullydnl]

The issue with the democrats that I can see is that A) they didn’t seem to do too well on some key metrics over the last 4 years in government but more importantly B) they don’t connect to the common man as well as Republican do. Just talking to people far far away here - even if I don’t like their tolerance for racism, sexism and all the abhorrent thing Trump stands for - they find him interesting for whatever reason. On the other hand, I keep hearing about Kamala being rehearsed and corporate in her demeaner using catch phrases rather than honest down to earth language. While I personally don’t like voting based on charisma and podcast interview skills as politicians aren’t entertainers, sadly that is where we are.

Even if you’re not a TV personality per se - you have to win hearts. Kamala didn’t win the hearts of people.

100%

They need to accept that Trump was right, there is a "swamp". Meaning there is an elitist, privileged political class who want to maintain a status quo people are lashing against, who the democrats are seen to embody. And they need to reposition themselves outside of that.

Which means a more fundamentally class-based approach to politics. They need to appeal to working class, blue-collar workers both in terms of policy and perception. The latter meaning they need to present candidates who appeal to working and middle class people who are sceptical of both the elite and identity politics.

And I say that as someone who absolutely balks at those who whine about identity politics. But the left now needs to understand that (without abandoning their principles in terms of how women, monorities, LGBTQ+, etc. should actually be treated) they need to shift their language and presentation to appeal to the large cohort of people in America who do not agree with that stereotyped world view, because that stereotyped world view is losing them elections.

As a horrible shorthand: they need a left-wing candidate your average Joe Rogan fan could happily vote for. Because that Joe Rogan fan isn't actually voting based on policy (which can/should be left-wing) but perception.

 

[RedTiger]

Remember Avenatti?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

100%

They need to accept that Trump was right, there is a "swamp". Meaning there is an elitist, privileged political class who want to maintain a status quo people are lashing against, who the democrats are seen to embody. And they need to reposition themselves outside of that.

Which means a more fundamentally class-based approach to politics. They need to appeal to working class, blue-collar workers both in terms of policy and perception. The latter meaning they need to present candidates who appeal to working and middle class people who are sceptical of both the elite and identity politics.

And I say that as someone who absolutely balks at those who whine about identity politics. But the left now needs to understand that (without abandoning their principles in terms of how women, monorities, LGBTQ+, etc. should actually be treated) they need to shift their language and presentation to appeal to the large cohort of people in America who do not agree with that stereotyped world view, because that stereotyped world view is losing them elections.

As a horrible shorthand: they need a left-wing candidate your average Joe Rogan fan could happily vote for. Because that Joe Rogan fan isn't actually voting based on policy (which can/should be left-wing) but perception.

Absolutely. Politics is all about perception, sadly. So even if Trump is even more elitist with his leanings towards the ultra rich, he manages to be likeable to people of other classes too.

Although despite what I say, Biden beat him easily so there’s that confusing racial paradox too - which will probably just see white dudes battling it out for a good while due to fear of prejudice.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Rein in inflation, but not for my industry.

It's really not about woke or DEI or whatever, most people are just this ignorant and self-centered. Which is, while infuriating, also comforting to know that there will be a reversal if conditions continue or get worse under a Trump administration.

 

[Cloud7]

Someone on 5Live earlier, didn't catch the name, was saying that Trump is able to disguise his wealthy background and engage with the average blue collar voter because he doesn't do the photo ops often. He doesn't pretend to enjoy a beer at a murky bar or anything like that. It made me think about how detached politicians are from the rest of us, and how we all know it.

While it was great watching Walz, and his friendly nature, going to the small town store and chatting with the workers, seeing Harris try to have the same personable attitude just felt wooden. Trump would have been the same so he tried to avoid it as much as possible, opting to just have his grand and dumb as feck rallies where he mumbled like a madman. At least it was honest and authentic to the kind of person he was.

The main point was that Trump being Trump resonated with people and energised them to get out and vote, whereas Harris pretending to be the everywoman had the opposite effect. Nobody knew what she really stood for because she played it safe.

It's a similar sort of vibe to Sunak taking pictures at Mcdonalds or filling gas. It's so cringe and so fake.

It's like...we all know that politicians have stopped being average people for a long time. Stop pretending like you are one of us. We all know you aren't.

 

[Wibble]

100%

They need to accept that Trump was right, there is a "swamp". Meaning there is an elitist, privileged political class who want to maintain a status quo people are lashing against, who the democrats are seen to embody. And they need to reposition themselves outside of that.

Which means a more fundamentally class-based approach to politics. They need to appeal to working class, blue-collar workers both in terms of policy and perception. The latter meaning they need to present candidates who appeal to working and middle class people who are sceptical of both the elite and identity politics.

And I say that as someone who absolutely balks at those who whine about identity politics. But the left now needs to understand that (without abandoning their principles in terms of how women, monorities, LGBTQ+, etc. should actually be treated) they need to shift their language and presentation to appeal to the large cohort of people in America who do not agree with that stereotyped world view, because that stereotyped world view is losing them elections.

As a horrible shorthand: they need a left-wing candidate your average Joe Rogan fan could happily vote for. Because that Joe Rogan fan isn't actually voting based on policy (which can/should be left-wing) but perception.

Sounds good although what Trump was talking about wasn't the same swamp you are talking about. His was just an imaginary one containing people he dislikes.

I also wonder if a female candidate is ever going to be acceptable to a country that still has huge swathes of people who have evolved little socially since the 1950's? I was amazed they elected a black president but it seems like a woman is a step too far. Sadly. The same probably goes for a gay candidate.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Sounds good although what Trump was talking about wasn't the same swamp you are talking about. His was just an imaginary one containing people he dislikes.

I also wonder if a female candidate is ever going to be acceptable to a country that still has huge swathes of people who have evolved little socially since the 1950's? I was amazed they elected a black president but it seems like a woman is a step too far. Sadly. The same probably goes for a gay candidate.

Basically if a woman is to become president she’ll have to be twice as good an option as her male opponent. It has to be so ridiculously clear that it negates the blatant sexism, and then some. So either an exceptional woman or a solid man.

 

[sullydnl]

Sounds good although what Trump was talking about wasn't the same swamp you are talking about. His was just an imaginary one containing people he dislikes.

Honestly I'm not even sure it matters who you present the swamp as being, as long as your position is that people were right to think there is one and you're not a part of it. It's not exactly a substance-based political critique.

 

[roseguy64]

@Revan

He's stealing your posts directly from redcafe

What an awful person

 

[gaffs]

She ran a decent campaign given the condensed timeline but still ran into two fundamental problems. The first was out of her control and the second was simply a miscalculation of strategy.

First, she faced the same predictable headwinds of being a woman running for President in a highly masculinized country. This is evidenced by the fact that both Hillary and Harris were much more competent than Trump, and still got trounced. Whereas a fading, 76 year old Biden came out of retirement and smashed him with an unprecedented 81m votes. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions as to why.

You have to consider where we were at in 2020. Biden beat Trump because people were fed up of the daily chaos and his mishandling of COVID. I beleive most Dem Primary candidates would have beaten him in 2020 - he was there for the taking.

Biden's name ID helped him, due to the Obama association plus his union connections.

I think Kamala being female is way down the list of reasons she lost. It did give her far more authority to speak on the issue of abortion.

In a parallel universe, where Karl Harris was running, after being Biden's VP, Karl still would have been beaten soundly. It was her association with Biden (41% approval / 70% feel country in the wrong track) that killed her.

Hillary did not beat Trump because the climate was right for a Trump win. Plus Hillary had 25 years of baggage. So perhaps the issue here was it was the wrong woman at the wrong time.

Would Biden have beaten Trump in 2016? Maybe, but voters were clearly looking for something very different post 8 years of Obama.

Second, Harris herself despite being more competent than Trump on policy, was simply not a good communicator about articulating a vision that assuaged the anxieties of voters. She miscalculated badly by thinking abortion and “democracy is on the ballot”, and simply not being Trump would be enough. It wasn’t, and so even if she actually earned the nomination (instead of inheriting it) and had a full year to develop a proper campaign, having the wrong strategy would’ve still resulted in her losing badly.

I think the issue here is that there was no great way of her communicating a strong message on the economy, given people feeling the impact of inflation. What would a winning message have been for her, given she was Biden's VP?

I think that is why she and her team fell back on abortion and the threat of Trump. They didnt have a good enough answer or were afraid to tackle the issue head on. Remember, it is not always the candide, it is the team around him and her that create and poll test their messaging and the Harris campaign were doing it on the fly.

Hopefully the Dems do a proper autopsy that results in ditching the entire Obama/Biden/Harris mafia and start afresh with a new approach with a new lineup of candidates.

A proper Primary process will hopefully ensure we get the best candidate. If the economy is doing well for those who voted for Trump this year, primarily working class men, then it will be hard to for any Dem to beat the next GOP Candidate - who may even be Trump again!

 

[roseguy64]

 

[gaffs]

Its out there to see, media pushing blame narratives, people on socials wishing all the worst towards minorities, its like classic example of before and after, turns out they are similar to cnuts on other side, difference is other cnuts dont pretend to be something they aint.

The internet amplifies people's worst instincts, especially when angry.

As Trump said post the Nazi march in Charlottesville, "there are fine people on both sides".

 

[Suedesi]

100% agree that it would be stupid for democrat politicians, tacticians etc. to do so.

However outsiders are as entitled to their view as voters are to their vote.

We don’t yet know what the situation for Palestinians could look like under the new U.S. administration; there's too many variables in play including the very viability of Bibi's govt.
What we do know is that the Biden-Harris administration has been complicit in genocide, and continuing to support Harris would be silly.

 

[Abizzz]

We don’t yet know what the situation for Palestinians could look like under the new U.S. administration; there's too many variables in play including the very viability of Bibi's govt.
What we do know is that the Biden-Harris administration has been complicit in genocide, and continuing to support Harris would be silly.

I stay out of these discussions on the caf and don't appreciate being dragged into them.


My point remains. Trump voters cannot complain about other people forming an opinion about them. It's infantile.

 

[Suedesi]

I read the same thing this morning

https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-827762

 

[roseguy64]

A Democrat will never get away with what a Republican (especially Trump) can get away with.

I read the long post few pages back, and I see what that poster was saying. But, imagine Harris/Democrat not behaving presidential or offering policy solutions, and think of the past three months:
1. “Harris is not talking about her policies”
2. “Voters want to hear more SPECIFICS about her policies”
3. “Voters want to know what she would do if she’s elected… more details.”

We heard that a million times. Those who made these statements didn’t make the same demands of Trump.

Now, you have those who say “policies don’t matter… just be a d*ck and someone to enjoy a beer with.” Do people really believe that Harris would have gotten away with that approach?

The Democrat will always be held to totally different standards, not just by the right-wing media, but also by the mainstream media, political pundits, politicians, operatives and so on.

Yep. Saw a lot of those posts in this thread about people wanting to hear Harris talk about policies prior to this result. Hilarious.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Very weird seeing so many liberals vehemently attack minority groups today.

Anyone who lives outside of the "centre" is no better than the other. Ive seen people in here who are left wing make jokes about Al Qaeda and hoping Trump/Musk are killed. I've seen right wing basically claim Ukraine is expandable.

You can't claim you are any better than Trump if you make shit jokes about minorities, education status etc

I like how you form such a strong opinion on “anyone who lives outside of the centre” based on some views you’ve seen.

 

[Suedesi]

I stay out of these discussions on the caf and don't appreciate being dragged into them.


My point remains. Trump voters cannot complain about other people forming an opinion about them. It's infantile.

I think you might have misconstrued my comments, which is leading to a response that doesn't directly address the points I raised. It seems you're introducing topics, like Trump voters, that I didn't even mention.

I was focusing on the Dems mismanagement of the election process and why Arabs/Muslims can't be blamed about shunning Harris in light of this administration's policies toward Palestinians. Let's clarify our points to ensure we're on the same page.

 

[roseguy64]

Thread about Trump voters in Hawaii that could translate to the continental states

 

[Wibble]

Honestly I'm not even sure it matters who you present the swamp as being, as long as your position is that people were right to think there is one and you're not a part of it. It's not exactly a substance-based political critique.

I think it matters very much TBH.

 

[Suedesi]

This is literally the kind of shit they do in corrupt countries with dictators.
Absolute fecking corruption at the highest level.

Are you saying the case was bogus in the first place?

 

[Abizzz]

I think you might have misconstrued my comments, which is leading to a response that doesn't directly address the points I raised. It seems you're introducing topics, like Trump voters, that I didn't even mention.

I was focusing on the Dems mismanagement of the election process and why Arabs/Muslims can't be blamed about shunning Harris in light of this administration's policies toward Palestinians. Let's clarify our points to ensure we're on the same page.

Ah, alright I took your original post as a stand alone post and not in the context of the posts before.

Still think it's a bit much to expect people not to have an opinion on Trump voters, whatever the background. Especially given that they typically claim to be the ultimate defenders of the freedom to express said opinion.

 

[gaffs]

The issue with the democrats that I can see is that A) they didn’t seem to do too well on some key metrics over the last 4 years in government but more importantly B) they don’t connect to the common man as well as Republican do. Just talking to people far far away here - even if I don’t like their tolerance for racism, sexism and all the abhorrent thing Trump stands for - they find him interesting for whatever reason. On the other hand, I keep hearing about Kamala being rehearsed and corporate in her demeaner using catch phrases rather than honest down to earth language. While I personally don’t like voting based on charisma and podcast interview skills as politicians aren’t entertainers, sadly that is where we are.

Even if you’re not a TV personality per se - you have to win hearts. Kamala didn’t win the hearts of people.

Trump does "connect to the common man".
The Republican's without him wouldn't be able to do that because they are, at their core, a pro business anti worker party. They always have been and always will be.
Trump may be tougher on immigration than Democrats, but when it comes to any fiscal policy, the "common man" will eventually get hurt by him. Trump wouldnt piss on one of his supporters if they were on fire! He doesn't care about them - not one of his policies in his first term suggests so.

Again, as i have said on my other posts, Trump got very lucky. He has got back into office because of post COVID inflation. People remember prices being cheaper in his term and they have blamed Biden for that inflation. Had Trump been the incumbent post COVID, Kamala would have beaten him.

The bottom line is the "common man" wants cheaper prices and more money in his pocket and Trumps message of "you were better off under me" had worked.

 

[gaffs]

Are you saying the case was bogus in the first place?

You know he is not saying that.
The Jan 6 case. Bogus?
Having thousands of confidential documents, that you stole, stored in a public area of your golf club? Hardly bogus.
Nothing to see here...

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Are you saying the case was bogus in the first place?

So you are saying there’s a federal judge that would find the sitting president a seditionist and convict him?

He successfully ran out the clock. Now there’s no choice but to let him off scot free, or you risk civil unrest a hundred folds the size of J6.