Tuchel ….2 year contract
Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
If we sign him, only a 2 year, get him an extension depending on results
This is what I would do too. Throw in some serious bonuses for silverware to make it more palatable for his agens
That's what I hope happens but his critics in here would tell you he is gonna cause more problems
What United want is just a coach that does nothing more
And by all accounts that's Tuchel preference as well
What are people basing this on, though? From a couple of the big Athletic post-mortems on his Chelsea and Bayern sackings:
Tuchel’s initial wishlist of players included Matthijs de Ligt, Raphinha, Frenkie de Jong and Presnel Kimpembe, none of which the new owners managed to deliver. There was also a disagreement over the method of identifying targets: Boehly and Eghbali leaned on data analysts with experience in US sports, while Tuchel stressed the need for him to be able to talk to potential signings in order to get a feel for their personalities and how they might fit into the group.
He also felt he was forced to devote too much time and energy into trying to steer the new owners away from signing players he did not want — namely Ronaldo and Jules Kounde, who Mendes had the mandate from Atletico to sell. Chelsea insist they were the ones who decided to leave Kounde to Barcelona, having decided that Wesley Fofana was a better physical fit for the Premier League after conducting an extensive data analysis of right-sided defenders.
https://theathletic.com/3576054/2022/09/08/tuchel-sacking-chelsea-potter/
He also felt he was forced to devote too much time and energy into trying to steer the new owners away from signing players he did not want — namely Ronaldo and Jules Kounde, who Mendes had the mandate from Atletico to sell. Chelsea insist they were the ones who decided to leave Kounde to Barcelona, having decided that Wesley Fofana was a better physical fit for the Premier League after conducting an extensive data analysis of right-sided defenders.
https://theathletic.com/3576054/2022/09/08/tuchel-sacking-chelsea-potter/
Limited influence on squad composition is one of the quirks of the job in Munich, as every manager in modern times has found. In case opinions are divided, the board has always erred on the side of backing the existing roster and repelled costly upheaval. This has led to a paradox: Bayern want managers with a clearly defined footballing philosophy but won’t give them the means to implement them on their terms.
When things don’t work out subsequently, both sides can claim that they were right all along. Managers can say results would have been much better if only the board had listened. Board members can say they were right to restrict the coach’s transfer dealings because the next man might have very different views and the club cannot afford a complete overhaul of playing personnel every two or three years.
Where Tuchel differed in comparison to his predecessors — such as Nagelsmann, Hansi Flick, Niko Kovac, Carlo Ancelotti and Pep Guardiola, who all had limited sway over transfer dealings — was that he wasn’t willing to accept the hand he was being dealt.
Throughout the summer and beyond, Tuchel kept talking about the need for a defensive midfielder, openly questioning the credentials of Goretzka, Kimmich and new signing Konrad Laimer. Since the first two were part of the team’s leadership group, the effect was destabilising, especially for the two players. “He emasculated them,” a source close to the dressing room told The Athletic.
https://theathletic.com/5284297/2024/02/22/thomas-tuchel-bayern-munich-exit/
When things don’t work out subsequently, both sides can claim that they were right all along. Managers can say results would have been much better if only the board had listened. Board members can say they were right to restrict the coach’s transfer dealings because the next man might have very different views and the club cannot afford a complete overhaul of playing personnel every two or three years.
Where Tuchel differed in comparison to his predecessors — such as Nagelsmann, Hansi Flick, Niko Kovac, Carlo Ancelotti and Pep Guardiola, who all had limited sway over transfer dealings — was that he wasn’t willing to accept the hand he was being dealt.
Throughout the summer and beyond, Tuchel kept talking about the need for a defensive midfielder, openly questioning the credentials of Goretzka, Kimmich and new signing Konrad Laimer. Since the first two were part of the team’s leadership group, the effect was destabilising, especially for the two players. “He emasculated them,” a source close to the dressing room told The Athletic.
https://theathletic.com/5284297/2024/02/22/thomas-tuchel-bayern-munich-exit/
He seemingly didn't enjoy the death-by-meetings approach at Chelsea, but people seem to be altering this into him being a coach that doesn't want involvement in recruitment. He also fell out with Dortmund and PSG over it. You can argue about the merits of his ideas on it, but he clearly has, over his career, wanted to steer it.
With him it seems to be more about wanting players that fit a certain mold more than actual specific names.
To say he fecked up is a bit strong. He saved them on a number of occasions before that with some world class saves. Then if you look at the shot from Vinicius from the camera directly behind its swerving all over the place, its got power and it bounces just before he can reach it. Maybe he should have held it but I wouldn't go so far to say it was a blunder.
Says who?
No one relevant
Someone I know who works on the commercial side of a football club in the NW.
Says Iraola's a strong candidate. He could be number 2 or 3 or 4 on a shortlist though. No idea.
I imagine they've been doing due diligence on candidates for a few months now.
It might be idle gossip but the football world is quite small at that level so sometimes the rumours are legit.
If we get him then we’re back to square 1 in 2 years time.
Yes, please tell us what we need.
Because apparently a proven winner who can deal with a disjointed squad is not needed...
I swear some of the opinions on here deserve bans for a few days.
What?
Why would I have an agenda against him man?
He’s just not a great manager, his teams always get worse season on season.
I understand people are desperate and/or like Tuchel but trying to dismiss what went on at Chelsea and Bayern as anything other than massive red flags is a bit weird. I'd even say what went on in Paris to be concerning.
I'm also not a massive Tuchel fan either, however neither Dortmund, PSG or Chelsea were worse off - they did subsequently become shitter, but that's on the clubs not Tuchel (he loves falling out with boards). However, it's definitely not controversial to suggest that, tactically, Tuchel is vastly superior to Southgate.
You can see it in the way he adapts in game and sets up teams. Compare and contrast to the host of evidence of Southgate shitting the bed. Tuchel just came up against Ancelotti last night, someone I am astounded as to why United never tried to hire.
Has Tuchel had a shit season? Yes. Would Bayern have wanted Southgate at the helm instead of Tuchel at the start of the year? Obviously not. It was mad of Chelsea to sack him, bloke had a 63% win ratio (Poch on 50% currently, Lampard's 9% - 1W 2D 8L - is still nuts to think about).
Of all the viable options for United post ETH, Tuchel is the clear choice.
Teams decline or go into transition and these can also be compounded by individual errors from directors, managers etc. Does he share the blame for how things have gone? Yes but ultimately it has taken a team going unbeaten to dethrone them so it's not all bad.
Southgate seems to have become the all-encompassing bogeyman. Want to keep ten Hag? Well, the alternative is Southgate. Want to get Tuchel? Of course, otherwise it's Southgate.
We don't need proven winner, more coach type who prefers discipline?
So what type exactly we need then?
It’s weird, and he has nothing on his CV that resembles anything extraordinary, like Alonso this season for example.
He’s won leagues where absolutely anyone does, yet he’s even struggled to do that in both Bayern years which is a huge red flag. Had Dortmund not capitulated on the final day, he’d be leaving Bayern without a league title, he’s a lucky man.
But @Fallon d'Floor could prove me wrong just by showing me any club since Mainz (10 years ago) where his team got better the longer he stayed, rather than the opposite….
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This is my thoughts aswell, if we get him to replace EtH, I don't think he'll last 18 months.
People are losing sight of this, we are two or three years away from even thinking of a title challenge but that doesn't mean we have to close shop for those years and suddenly wake up in year 3 as challengers. We have to compete, earn the prize money that we would need to finance the rebuild and attract highly sought after talent. He can do that whilst Ashworth and Wilcox work in the background to build a side that will play how we want to play.
There is every chance that Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Newcastle join City in creating super teams that can't be dislodged from the top easily. If Newcastle get their act together and perform according to the potential of their ownership that's two CL places off the table. We need to be one of the super teams and I don't see how a sabbatical from competing will help us do that. Tuchel is not Pep or Klopp, he may be in decline but, as he showed even last night, he can compete with what he has.
For the next two to three years we will still have a significant portion of this unbalanced squad. We need someone that is solutions based instead of just looking to the market for solutions we need someone that can come in and utilize what we have, whilst we repair ten years of damage and be able to have us meeting the minimum requirements for a side of our means and aspirations.
But that doesn’t happen at United does it?
The team hasn’t had to go unbeaten to dethrone them Bayern are on 69 points only 2 ahead of Stuttgart.
Leverkusen could have lost 5 games that they won and still be level on points at this stage. So it’s not true.
This feels too much like making excuses for not winning an easier to win league.
Now Alonso, there is a manager!
100% agree with you here
Okay then...
1. That's an opinion, not a fact.
2. No it isn't, and neither is Southgate.
I’m all for it now.
I don’t know if that’s because I genuinely believe United slip into the bottom half before this ever gets better, or because I want some touchline drama because EtH is such a feeble character out there.
I don’t know if that’s because I genuinely believe United slip into the bottom half before this ever gets better, or because I want some touchline drama because EtH is such a feeble character out there.
Its been known since I joined this forum I support Manchester United and the club from the region I was born in. I honestly don't see what the big deal is
Ancelotti is a no go then
I’m not a fan of Tuchel at all as I believe he is toxic ala Mourinho and throws players under the bus regularly and just is not very likeable in general. But it should be said that he was Bayern manager for merely 9 games last season as he took over when they were in 2nd place after a defeat to Leverkusen.
And honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with that because at least then I'd have a clue about what we were trying to do out there.
But I still believe he'll be a good fit for Man United if you want short-term results. You have defenders that can work only in a low block defense, and fast wingers with a striker that plays like a pivot. Only need 2 workhorses alongside Mainoo to stabilize the midfield where you are currently the weakest. Afterwards you can change managers and try like Klopp's Liverpool did with Thiago and try to add more possession percentages.. gradually.
But no one is merely "taking pot shots".
It is known:
Tuchel is notoriously difficult to work with when he doesn't get his way.
Is known for not caring what happens below the first team.
Loves to spark conflict with first Tran stars " to test their metal". Isn't known for developing youth.
Above all is about to finish a job at which he joined a stacked Bayern, was allowed to strengthen it, yet all he has to show for it is a fluked league title. Then this embrassing season in which he added the most sort after cb and striker on the market, yet is set to finish in double digits behind a team and manager that have never won a league title, in the league, plus got knocked out of the cup by actual ammateurs and his tactics just cost Bayern their only chance left for silverware in the UCL.
How does this honestly mark him out as an ideal candidate for United in the state its currently in?
Yet Chelsea with all Boely's money pissed him off till he talked himself out of the job?
To be honest, from a United perspective, these are all very first world problems. The problems we used to have in 2013.
These days, we would throw a celebration if we fluked a league title and reached the CL semifinals.
Who might end up with the only undefeated season in Bundesliga history.
The point is if someone is having such a hard time with first world luxuries available. .....imagine him were Jones is giving contract extension as a crock and Antony at 80m is considered "succesful negotiation". Not to mention FFP & EPL SR issues...
Point still remains. With his resources they shouldn't be unbeaten. Let alone winning the league title.
Does it though?
2 games left but Bayern could end up with a points total high enough to have won the league in…
22-23, 21-22, 20-21, 19-20, 17-18, 16-17,… I mean, do I need to keep going?
And that even despite the team clearly having given up and throwing some games away as they didn't matter anymore.
Yes. Because not only does he have vastly superior resources to them. He is more experienced than their manager and has won league titles before in a pressure job like Bayern. Plus if he had beaten them home and away its doubtful they'd have maintained this mommentum and form this long at the time them victories should have occurred.
It doesnt matter where you: keep going" :
1. He is more experienced than Xabi Alonso
2. Leverkusen have won nothing till this season. Neither has Xabi Alonso as a manager.
3. Not only is he in charge of 11 time league champions. He added the most sorted after cb (Kim Min Jae) and the most sorted after striker (Kane) in Europe. Plus strengthenedin January too. To a squad in its prime. Yet he is 15 points behind.
4. He is the first Bayern boss to lose 7 games in the league in 11/12 seasons
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This is so far away from a "squad in its prime" that I don't even know where to start.