Spot on.
Mbappe is still putting very high numbers but a lot of it is helped by playing in Ligue 1. It's clear that we need to look at this current generation of superstars differently than Messi and Ronaldo.
Wouldn’t call Figo a weak ballon D’or winner. Actually I’m struggling to see anyone weak on that list.
To be fair Messi and Ronaldo also had the privilege to play for many seasons in absolutely stacked teams. These Real and Barca were two of the best teams in history. No one from this generation is currently playing with such supporting casts.
Are they weak?
Owen is certainly weak by Ballon d'Or-winning standards. I'd say that out of all Ballon d'Or winners only Belanov in 1986 was less impressive (and he wouldn't have won it if non-Europeans were included in the vote, like it was in the 2000's).
Mbappe has won a much bigger trophy than the CL though.
Owen aside, Vinicius isn’t at their level. Not yet anyway. Nedved was
Yeah those 2 spoiled us. After seeing them it won't be easy for younger players to amaze us.
I don't know if that's true - ballon d'or was calendar year, not season so he's literally got UEFA cup, FA cup (scored both in a 2-1 win), Super Cup (scored and assisted, 3-2 win vs Bayern), Charity shield (vs us, he scored their 2nd in a 2-1 win, not that it's a big trophy but he's turning up in every big game) and League cup albeit he didn't play much in that. Then you have the Germany hattrick for England and generally being great for us in the qualy rounds. Then you add in he's playing for a pretty cack Pool team.
As I’ve said, weak by Ballon d’Or-winning standards, which is still more than impressive on its own. For a striker who didn’t do much aside from scoring goals he simply didn’t score enough (16 league goals, outscored by Viduka, Henry, Marcus fecking Stewart and Hasselbaink)— as well not playing in Europe’s top competition. He did perform very well in most of big games that season but that didn’t make him the best player in the world — he didn’t pass the eye test (which, for me, is most important), his stats were pretty average and his achievements (on their own) didn’t justify the award either.
Elite production for both club and country, huge performances in the biggest games, and people actually have eyes.
He single-handedly eliminated Real Sociedad, and led his team out of the group stage, scored 2 against Barca.
You seem to have ignored the calendar year part? Who would be ahead?
Raul and Figo come to mind. Totti as well. Kahn.
I saw that but not sure what I was supposed to say about that. I counted his Supercup and Charity Shield performances as well.
Raul was probably the closest one but it’s always been a combo of Europe/domestic and it wasn’t a great season for Real from the looks of things (not going to pretend I followed Real when I was a teenager but you went out to Toledo in the Copa, didn’t win the CL) and so he’s hardly going to get ballon d’or for winning the league (when that was very common) and just being top scorer.
Because you said he scored 16 goals and was out scored by x,z and y. I doubt if you took goals per game across comps there’d be many ahead of him that year national/domestic. I feel like we also need to remember Boone was scoring at Ronaldo/Messi levels in those days.
I don't know if you understood my post, but I asked why he's better than other world class players at the moment and not why he's considered a world class player. His "elite production" for France is not that relevant right now, is it? Or did that two-penalty hat-trick put him above everyone else permanently?
Nedved was amazing.
I just told you. Do you switch your "best player in the world" opinion every month or something? Vini and Mbappe both are often very good in big games, but Mbappe has done it for longer while being more productive year over year in general and far more effective for his country. Vini is right there for Ballon D'or shouts though without a doubt this year.
I think season-wise, just like most do, I guess, although I think Vinícius has been as good as Mbappé since 21-22 and De Bruyne has been at least as good since the French reach world class status. I also believe that Griezmann and Kane are not worse at their best, but I understand why they are ranked lower, as the former had some bad years at Barcelona and the latter has been a bit disappointing on the biggest stage. Both are easily on par with Mbappé this season though.
He did not play well vs Sociedad and vs Barcelona. He was very poor vs Barcelona. Average yesterday. I'm writing this without actually comparing him to Vinicius;it's just my observation. Since that world cup cameo, Mbappe has not played well in a single big game for PSG and has been mostly poor for France. Again, nothing to do with Vinicius.He single-handedly eliminated Real Sociedad, and led his team out of the group stage, scored 2 against Barca.
So, Mbappe with 15 g&a (12 goals) including a hat-trick in a WC final in 2 WCs is nothing special, but Vinicius with 3 goals for his entire Brazil NT career (3 goals in 28 games) is amazing and a big game player. ok got it
Imagine comparing 77 g&a (for France) WC icon Mbappe with 7 g&a Vinicius for Brazil, and then proceeding to declare Mbappe "terrible for France". Since the WC, he has 18 g&a for France in 11 games including 5 g&a against Netherlands in two games, so I have no idea where this "he has been terrible for France" idea comes from.
At the club level, Mbappe had already shined in big games since he was 18 whether it is against City, Real, Juve, Bayern or Barca you name it. And only a few all time greats can rival his NT career.
And this is coming from someone who really likes Vinicius and his play style, and sees him as the most appropriate Ballon D'or contender from Real if he continues to play a big role in Real's potential UCL trophy.
Just so long as it isn't Bellingham. Can't stand the guy.
Bellingham would be a candidate if England win the Euro + a big role in the Champions League final, but right now it's difficult for him.
I hope Vini Jnr wins it. I think he deserves it.
Vincius actually plays that position like it’s supposed to be played. Rashford is just a wide striker pretending to be a winger.
Not really, all Mbappe needs is an okay euro, which is pretty likely, considering the squad France have, and he will win it.
