Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[romufc]

What a load of nonsense.

Just because a load of you have bought into “the top 4 cup” narrative , doesn’t mean the rest of us are as myopic.

If we had squeezed into 4th would you have enjoyed the season more than winning the FA cup like that ? Beating pool and City like that? Probably being the team that begun the implosion of Klopps final season ?

Lots of clubs get and need luck along the way to cup wins. You mustn’t of been around for our 99 season, but even at that there’s many times you can point to where a team just gets bundles of luck along the way to a cup.

I’d argue this “we need to be 4th/3rd” directive is such small time thinking. Of course we want to get back to the top of the league, but the only reason people value anything other than 1st/2nd is the champions league spots. The Europa gets you that spot and even next season if English teams do better in Europe , 5th will get a spot.

Some of the last 2 seasons under ETH, as bad as it’s been at times , there have been near unforgettable moments that have probably been some of the most satisfying wins since SAF left.

Thats what the sport is about when you clearly aren’t the best club, competing with clubs like Chelsea and city who spend more or Liverpool/arsenal who spend better and have had owners who clearly didn’t have a competent way of running things.

Standards aren’t simply “that was awful , needs to go”, some of you confuse “I think hes a chancer” with “after objective review of all the variables , he is not the right man”. I don’t know what exactly INEOs process was or why they ultimately decided to retain him, but I’m reasonably confident it wasn’t mostly cause of fan sentiment and not just down to the FA cup win.

On the balance of probability, they did think a lot of the things ETH couldn’t control , injuries, player dramas and club dysfunction (including sale) did make it hard for him to the point that while the season was unacceptable, it was more likely an anomaly , rather then a reflection of what he can or will do.

I’d rather an FA cup or Europa cup win every year over “look we finish 4th”. Even “look we finished 2nd , 15 points off 1st” doesn’t do anything for me. Unless we are properly challenging for a league, I’d take an FA or Europa cup. Im not saying I don’t want to see us make progress in the league , I’m saying that for where we have been the last 11 years , a cup is better then the top 4 boring Woodward/glazer target.

Perfect post.

I dont know where this play good football and finish top 4 is what we should judge the manager on has come from.

Numerous times we have won trophies being lucky, you need luck to win anything, even a league title. I am in the same boat as you, if we are not competing for the league or CL title, I rather win the FA cup.

The modern day fan is all about top 4 and have written of other trophies, even if we win it its lucky so it shouldn't count.

 

[Zoid]

This club is hopeless. 8th place in the premier league, negative goal difference, shameful last place in the easy group of the champions league. Give him a new contract please.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Ducker confirming the club had been in contact with McKenna and met with Frank's representatives on the day United travelled to Wembley for the final.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[Amarsdd]

I also wonder if Ineos were aware how much the fans hated the idea of Southgate coming in as manager? This could also have been in their thinking and maybe they will wait and see how he does at club level if he leaves England

That was nothing more than pure speculation based on Southgate's past relationships with Ashworth and Brailsford. But its a masterclass in getting clicks and engagement from the journos; it provided those who wanted ETH in a worse case scenario to argue their case; and now it will be used by those who wanted ETH out to say told you so.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Sigh.

He better be kept on a very short leash.

Kinky.

 

[The Urban Goose]

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After reading that, I'm more convinced it was essential to keep ETH this summer and show the players they can't keep getting managers sacked. Hopefully a lot of the problems can now be dealt with and we'll have a more cohesive season next year.

 

[Buster15]

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I'm sure it was.

 

[Giggsyking]

Very good decision by INEOS, we need stability. The players clearly like him and want him to succeed.

 

[Cloud7]

While I can at least see the rationale in keeping him, even if I don’t agree with it, is there any need for the contract extension outside of a show of confidence?

I mean it’s clear that there were at least some doubts about him at some point this season. I feel like the extension just adds an added layer of complexity if things don’t actually get better this coming season.

 

[Hammondo]

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That is not a sign of good leadership...

How much would it cost to get rid of him?

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[stefan92]

So I am confused, do you want long term planning or short term moves?

I agree performances were terrible last season in the most part but we saw at the end of the season, he can change and be more compact, last 4 games we were different.

I want to rate performances higher than results while planning for the future. The last few matches at the end of the season actually are the only thing that gives me a little hope that keeping EtH might be the right decision, but that they resulted in winning a cup shouldn't matter much in assessing if he should stay or not (same applies to the players). Or in other words, the cup final was a very good performance and I would accept that as a reason for hope even if EtH had lost it. Probably more than if he had won it by using the terrible approach we saw for most of the season.

 

[Fez]

Out of all the community platforms, this one has the most negativity about this decision. Such a shame.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Next season can't come soon enough. Very curious to see if our play style will progress/improve.

Also, I wonder what the upper limits of the "back the manager" mantra are. For example, if Martinez and Shaw get injured, does he have carte blanche for another poor season?

INEOS has a lot riding on this decision. I can already imagine the articles if it goes all pear-shaped, which is a real, I’d even say likely, possibility. I have no confidence in Ten Hag and how next season pans out will partially inform the same about INEOS for me. Godspeed.

Addressing the injury situation is also an INEOs thing to fix. If we hadn’t had those injuries last season and the sesson went the way it went and/or the injuries were considered partly the managers fault, I don’t think ETH would be here.

You’d hope the club is planning with alternative options for the mananger. We need a LB, CB, CM and a striker at least. I mean, even having an extra striker would be nice. You’d hope having players more suited to ETH style and that hopefully this season was more an experimental one with ETH changing tactics if required, that we really shouldn’t be seeing the really tumescent stuff that went on at times.

Id say we could also see a few loan signings to go with a couple of main ones. Any expensive ones Won’t be over 25, so no Casemiro ones.

Another concern for me is that we do rely on youngsters a fair bit. 3 starting in our team , I’m worried about 2nd season syndrome that can happen to a lot of them after a break out season. We need to be able to rest or drop these lads and others to be fair.

So many times in games I see people say “make a sub, change it”. But I can’t remember too often looking at United benches and thinking there was great options for the manager. I’ve always felt the club is responsible for creating a squad for a manager , now we have an owner who at least gets that, whether they are good at doing it is another thing.

So the summer window is vital. Maybe we will end up with more squad players , rather than top quality additions. One could argue this was more our problem last season in the sense that there were no good options for rotation or resting.

 

[Amarsdd]

Very good decision by INEOS, we need stability. The players clearly like him and want him to succeed.

I don't get the certainty of that statement tbh. The players didn't really show that for much of the season; and an FA cup final against a big city rival seems more like an outlier to make that case.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Ineos have undermined him with their rather public search for alternative managers. The only way to restore his authority is with a similarly public backing from the club, which was always likely to take the form of a contract extension.

How has him coming out on top after reviewing all the options undermined him? If anything it's strengthened his position. Ten Hag wasn't INEOS' guy. He is now.

 

[Flying high]

While I can at least see the rationale in keeping him, even if I don’t agree with it, is there any need for the contract extension outside of a show of confidence?

I mean it’s clear that there were at least some doubts about him at some point this season. I feel like the extension just adds an added layer of complexity if things don’t actually get better this coming season.

As addressed many times already, it's unlikely to simply be an extension.

I'm quite sure Ineos will have changed a few things and more than likely added some break clauses for poor performance.

Assuming that's the case, an extension to prevent constant speculation makes perfect sense.

 

[Raven]

feck sake another season of you kids saying shite like this

Rewriting history is pretty cultish.

 

[romufc]

I want to rate performances higher than results while planning for the future. The last few matches at the end of the season actually are the only thing that gives me a little hope that keeping EtH might be the right decision, but that they resulted in winning a cup shouldn't matter much in assessing if he should stay or not (same applies to the players). Or in other words, the cup final was a very good performance and I would accept that as a reason for hope even if EtH had lost it. Probably more than if he had won it by using the terrible approach we saw for most of the season.

I think the last few games provided some hope that he can be adaptable.

I know people saying if we play like we did at the end of the season we would have finished top 4 but really, I dont think personally I want to see us playing that way.

I dont want another season of just low block, he needs to find a way to push to the half way line and dominate games like City / Arsenal do, the further we keep the opponents from our goal the better.

That is the challenge for him, cause any manager can set us up defensively and get results on the counter, that tactic works when you are 0-0 or 1-0 up.

This season, he has no excuses, he had 1 good and 1 bad season, credit and excuses used up, this season he has to be in and around the top until January I would say.

 

[romufc]

I feel like the extension just adds an added layer of complexity if things don’t actually get better this coming season.

I think the extension is because they have to, to show support to him. Also, they would want to make changes to his role, say manager to head coach and take certain responsibilities of him, which will be detailed in the contract.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[stefan92]

What a load of nonsense.

Just because a load of you have bought into “the top 4 cup” narrative , doesn’t mean the rest of us are as myopic.

If we had squeezed into 4th would you have enjoyed the season more than winning the FA cup like that ? Beating pool and City like that? Probably being the team that begun the implosion of Klopps final season ?

Lots of clubs get and need luck along the way to cup wins. You mustn’t of been around for our 99 season, but even at that there’s many times you can point to where a team just gets bundles of luck along the way to a cup.

I’d argue this “we need to be 4th/3rd” directive is such small time thinking. Of course we want to get back to the top of the league, but the only reason people value anything other than 1st/2nd is the champions league spots. The Europa gets you that spot and even next season if English teams do better in Europe , 5th will get a spot.

Some of the last 2 seasons under ETH, as bad as it’s been at times , there have been near unforgettable moments that have probably been some of the most satisfying wins since SAF left.

Thats what the sport is about when you clearly aren’t the best club, competing with clubs like Chelsea and city who spend more or Liverpool/arsenal who spend better and have had owners who clearly didn’t have a competent way of running things.

Standards aren’t simply “that was awful , needs to go”, some of you confuse “I think hes a chancer” with “after objective review of all the variables , he is not the right man”. I don’t know what exactly INEOs process was or why they ultimately decided to retain him, but I’m reasonably confident it wasn’t mostly cause of fan sentiment and not just down to the FA cup win.

On the balance of probability, they did think a lot of the things ETH couldn’t control , injuries, player dramas and club dysfunction (including sale) did make it hard for him to the point that while the season was unacceptable, it was more likely an anomaly , rather then a reflection of what he can or will do.

I’d rather an FA cup or Europa cup win every year over “look we finish 4th”. Even “look we finished 2nd , 15 points off 1st” doesn’t do anything for me. Unless we are properly challenging for a league, I’d take an FA or Europa cup. Im not saying I don’t want to see us make progress in the league , I’m saying that for where we have been the last 11 years , a cup is better then the top 4 boring Woodward/glazer target.

Wow... you are arguing a point that I never made. Did I say anything about top four? No. Did I claim that United shouldn't aim for winning trophies? No.

United did win the FA cup 2023/24. That's great.
How many points does it give you in the PL season 2024/25? Zero
How many points does it give you in the EL group stage 2024/25? Zero
How many rounds does it waive you through in the FA Cup 2024/25? Zero
How many rounds does it waive you through in the Carabao Cup 2024/25? Zero

That's what I meant by trophies are a thing of yesterday, now the club has to focus on the next season.

I want United to win cups, actually I often argued that United should take the so called "small" or "irrelevant" cups seriously to build a winning culture again. For me part of that is to always assess how to maximize your chances to win stuff again. And for that you have to look at performances, at the sustainability of your tactical approach and such things. Exactly because you are absolutely right, there is always luck involved in winning cups, so cups on their own are not a great indicator of future success.

 

[Raven]

I thought the red card ruled him out?
I would have used him more personally and wouldn't give Ten Hag any particular credit with how he managed him but i will say that fitting him in with mainoo and garnacho wouldn't necessarily be easy. Even Bruno and Hojlund are somewhat lightweight and Antony or Rashford probably has a bit more to offer there than other choices. I guess with Rashford its more in theory than practice.

Of 1 game, yeah.

 

[Big Andy]

By this logic, is it ever acceptable to want a manager sacked?

Yes of course, but what I mean is now that he's confirmed (although not by the club yet) as staying, then people should put their grievances aside and start backing him. All of this infighting just makes us look silly.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

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All the media hacks now rewriting history , they were absolutely wrong, badly wrong and their response has to be “we were right until those pesky fans got in the way”. Now deflecting attention from themselves to INEOs. Fantastic deflecting and since many love to follow the media narrative , many will lap it up.

It’s why so many people keep quoting stupid tweets and people not in the know , who say so much crap , some of it is bound to be correct.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

I'm so happy with that, feel like we have really put a line in the sand here. Love it, can't wait for next season.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Excited to see how next season pans out with, one hopes, excellent, determined players brought in.

 

[Raven]

There were 12 games after the game against Liverpool. He was suspended for one and of the remaining 11, he played in 8. It's hardly banishment.

Ten Hag insisting on playing Antony and his reluctance to give Amad minutes is one of my major criticisms of him, but I am also not privy to what goes on on the training ground, or what makes up the individual player development programs and what targets they have been set.

What I do know, is that Amad appears happy at the club, and that his performances when he has got minutes, are night and day from the levels we saw from him before Ten Hag arrived. You can think he should've played more, and I'd agree with you, but you can't at the same time dismiss the suggestion that Ten Hag has developed him.

He deserved a few starts after that performance.

 

[Salford_Red83]

So how long does he get next season when we continue where we left off from last? (And I'm not talking about the FA Cup final)

Another season wasted.

 

[delerium]

Now, let's get on with it then. However INEOS should sack our medical team, how the feck we had so many injuries last season. At least we were league leaders in something...

 

[stefan92]

I think the last few games provided some hope that he can be adaptable.

I know people saying if we play like we did at the end of the season we would have finished top 4 but really, I dont think personally I want to see us playing that way.

I dont want another season of just low block, he needs to find a way to push to the half way line and dominate games like City / Arsenal do, the further we keep the opponents from our goal the better.

That is the challenge for him, cause any manager can set us up defensively and get results on the counter, that tactic works when you are 0-0 or 1-0 up.

This season, he has no excuses, he had 1 good and 1 bad season, credit and excuses used up, this season he has to be in and around the top until January I would say.

Fully agree on this take.

 

[JBG]

I'm "thrilled" that the fans reaction played a big role in this .

But oh well, here we are. I will always support the manager and hope he does well, cause that is only good for our beloved team.

But, I actually hope they wait with giving him an extension, because this might not turn out to be a good decision. Yes I'm not confident about this, mostly because what we saw this season. I really, really hope he proves me wrong.

 

[spiriticon]

At the end of the day, winning trophies buys you more time. It's always been this way.

 

[Woziak]

Correct answer. Why others can’t see it is beyond me

This is the reality, after Pep he’s the only coach to win more than one trophy in England, Liverpool weaker, Chelsea weaker, Villa finding out why it’s the Champions League and Ange needs a trophy to kick off his tenure too.

Newcastle they need a trophy, 23 Carabo Cup Winner, 24 FA Cup Winner, 25 who knows but Europa League is a serious option and hopefully he picks up another trophy this season while we rebuild behind the scenes.

 

[Sarni]

Next season can't come soon enough. Very curious to see if our play style will progress/improve.

Also, I wonder what the upper limits of the "back the manager" mantra are. For example, if Martinez and Shaw get injured, does he have carte blanche for another poor season?

INEOS has a lot riding on this decision. I can already imagine the articles if it goes all pear-shaped, which is a real, I’d even say likely, possibility. I have no confidence in Ten Hag and how next season pans out will partially inform the same about INEOS for me. Godspeed.

We should address Shaw issue as it's a persistent one, he's going to get injured again so we need a viable, reliable backup.

If Martinez is out for a significant portion of season then obviously you need to adjust your expectations. If he's as good as we perceive him to be, he's irreplaceable.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Out of all the community platforms, this one has the most negativity about this decision. Such a shame.

Even if you’re delighted by this news, I’d say you’re quite optimistic if you don’t think the debate whether to sack him will be back within the next 6 months.

Feels like we’re just delaying the inevitable in some ways.

Hope I’m wrong. Hope we have a roaring season. But I can’t force myself to believe that’ll be. And I don’t think being realistic about that is a bad thing

 

[tomaldinho1]

Read that sentence to yourself. Think a little about it for a little while and read it again.
Does it still have the positive rinfto it that you intended it to have when you wrote it?

We overperformed like no other team in the league (60 points from 44 expected points). Our expected points through chances created and conceded were 15th in the league. For reference: Nottingham Forest had 50 and Brentford had 53 expected points this season. I'm aware that it is the points on the bard that counts, but this numbers indicate how far we are from actually better that position going forward and how bad our play actually has been for a full season now.

So how is top 4 realistic?
Are injuries luck or can the number of muscular injuries in a football squad have something to do with the training regime?
How are we an attractive destination to any players that will improve us at CB, DM or LB who has watched us play this season?

The big question is: How deep will the hole we've dug ourselves into be when we sum up next season.

Yes, it’s very positive? We apparently had the worst season ever with the worst injury crisis we’ve had and yet we were 8 points off CL places and won a cup. Even if we sign nobody but have better injury luck, do you not think it’s reasonable to think we’d do better? Add in a few new players and I’d say it’s very reasonable to think we can then bridge the gap back to the CL places?

 

[Lord of Blackhaven]

Extending his contract is straight out of the Woodward playbook. He's lucky to get a year to prove himself.

 

[moses]

That is not a sign of good leadership...

How much would it cost to get rid of him?

Weighing up all the options can be good leadership.

The have more data than you have.