Also, Klopp was a serial cup final bottler until he actually had a strong enough team to win. For me, it comes down to one simple question: would Poch make us better? Yes? Then we go for it!When did Spurs last win a trophy? they were never even close to competing, he got them to the CL final ffsall this "he hasn't won" really means nothing in the grand scheme of things, is Di Matteo a better manager than Pochettino?
If he can get Southampton playing better football than we can, then surely he can do better at a top job. He'd definitely command more respect with modern players than Solskjaer.
Is Poch really the answer?
- Thread starter AshRK
- Start date
Poch is not the answer, but I want Oleg one too.
When did Spurs last win a trophy? they were never even close to competing, he got them to the CL final ffs
If he can get Southampton playing better football than we can, then surely he can do better at a top job. He'd definitely command more respect with modern players than Solskjaer.
Lot's of random manager got their team to CL Final. Spurs were a good team before him, and he took Spurs a bit better, but that's it. There was nothing in their style that, if I were looking for a new team to support, made me in awe.
Easily forgot his Domestic league trophies against all the odd? Not just once but two times. While playing attractive football style also.
People have this ideal image of Poch and his best team (16-17) and ignore his poorer spells.
I think we're miles off being able to replicate it compared to the quality of players at the time:
Lloris = De Gea
Walker > Wan Bissaka
Alderweireld > Lindelof
Vertonghen = Maguire
Rose > Shaw/Telles
Wanyama/Dier > Fred/Matic/McTominay
Dembele > Pogba
Eriksen = Bruno
Son = Rashford
Alli > VdB
Kane > Martial/Cavani
I think we're miles off being able to replicate it compared to the quality of players at the time:
Lloris = De Gea
Walker > Wan Bissaka
Alderweireld > Lindelof
Vertonghen = Maguire
Rose > Shaw/Telles
Wanyama/Dier > Fred/Matic/McTominay
Dembele > Pogba
Eriksen = Bruno
Son = Rashford
Alli > VdB
Kane > Martial/Cavani
Who, Ole? So we should keep a manager for 10 games a season? Also, our big domestic games this season have been 2 losses and a draw (one humiliating loss).
I'd rather have a manager who is half as good as Ole in the big games but twice as good in the others - We'll end on more points (not saying that's Poch but I am saying Ole should go).
Also, winning against the odds is a one off, Liverpool used to beat us often under SAF and then proceed to finish sixth.
Well that just isn't true is it. List me what other random managers won?
Not many teams play "pretty" football these days, but it's effective. Poch specialises in fitness, pressing and team work.
Our team currently have no idea how they are supposed to play, we change formation every other match and we just look lost.
Spurs under Poch always looked drilled and knew what they were doing.
Possibly, who are the alternatives?
Seen hassenhuttl mentioned and his team seem quite similar in style to poch'
Its so stupid i wonder if those who want him as DOF are flat earthers
Seen hassenhuttl mentioned and his team seem quite similar in style to poch'
Agreed, it doesnt make any sense
Its so stupid i wonder if those who want him as DOF are flat earthers
I said, went to CL Final.
1992: Johan Cruyff (FC Barcelona) vs. Vujadin Boškov (Sampdoria) (1-0 a.e.t)
1993: Raymond Goethals (Marseille) vs. Fabio Capello (A.C. Milan) (1-0)
1994: Fabio Capello (A.C. Milan) vs. Johan Cruyff (FC Barcelona) (4-0)
1995: Louis van Gaal (Ajax) vs. Fabio Capello (A.C. Milan) (1-0)
1996: Marcello Lippi (Juventus) vs. Louis van Gaal (Ajax) (1-1 a.e.t, 4-2 penalties)
1997: Ottmar Hitzfeld (Borussia Dortmund) vs. Marcello Lippi (Juventus) (3-1)
1998: Jupp Heynckes (Real Madrid) vs. Marcello Lippi (Juventus) (1-0)
1999: Sir Alex Ferguson (Manchester United) vs. Ottmar Hitzfeld (Bayern Munich) (2-1)
2000: Vicente del Bosque (Real Madrid) vs. Héctor Cúper (Valencia CF) (3-0)
2001: Ottmar Hitzfeld (Bayern Munich) vs. Héctor Cúper (Valencia CF) (1-1 a.e.t, 5-4 penalties)
2002: Vicente del Bosque (Real Madrid) vs. Klaus Toppmöller (Bayer Leverkusen) (2-1)
2003: Carlo Ancelotti (A.C. Milan) vs. Marcello Lippi (Juventus) (0-0 a.e.t, 3-2 penalties)
2004: José Mourinho (FC Porto) vs. Didier Deschamps (A.S. Monaco) (3-0)
2005: Rafael Benitez (Liverpool) vs. Carlo Ancelotti (A.C. Milan) (3-3 a.e.t, 3-2 penalties)
2006: Frank Rijkaard (FC Barcelona) vs. Arsène Wenger (Arsenal) (2-1)
2007: Carlo Ancelotti (A.C. Milan) vs. Rafael Benitez (Liverpool) (2-1)
2008: Sir Alex Ferguson (Manchester United) vs. Avram Grant (Chelsea FC) (1-1 a.e.t, 6-5 penalties)
2009: Pep Guardiola (FC Barcelona) vs. Sir Alex Ferguson (Manchester United) (2-0)
2010: José Mourinho (Inter Milan) vs. Louis van Gaal (Bayern Munich) (2-0)
2011: Pep Guardiola (FC Barcelona) vs. Sir Alex Ferguson (Manchester United) (3-1)
2012: Roberto Di Matteo (Chelsea FC) vs. Jupp Heynckes (Bayern Munich) (1-1 a.e.t, 4-3 penalties)
2013: Jupp Heynckes (Bayern Munich) vs. Jürgen Klopp (Borussia Dortmund) (2-1)
2014: Carlo Ancelotti (Real Madrid) vs. Diego Simeone (Atlético Madrid) (4-1 a.e.t)
2015: Luis Enrique (FC Barcelona) vs. Massimilano Allegri (Juventus) (3-1)
Maybe because of his Liverpool links? It wouldn't worry me, I think he should be considered a top candidate. He may not want to walk away from Leicester mid-season when they're doing so well though. He is more proven than Hassenhuttl both at big clubs at in winning trophies. That's not to say we should exclude a great up and coming manager because he hasn't had those opportunities yet.
You're proving my point there. Who is random in that list? only Di Matteo and Avram Grant.
Klopp with Dortmund, when you mentioned he's a serial choker.
If he wouldn’t like to come here good for us! He can continue monitoring Ole, Zidane, Lampard, Tuchel and Arteta’s performances and continue counting the months he remains without a job.
Nobody knows until we try. There are no managers in the world like Klopp or Pep who would "guarantee" trophies so any manager we hire will be a risk. If it doesn't work out, we try again and again.
The best people to ask about the perception of Poch coming to united are the spurs fans who are objective about his tenure at the club. Many posters in all manner of threads are just jumping on the statistics bandwagon to slate the manager but statistics often miss out context which is just as important. I didn't watch spurs weekly but I considered them to play a more attacking brand of football compared to our very own presently and from what I remember they pressed high properly.
Records against the top 6 means absolutely nothing if there's no consistency again LVG revisited. Fans who keep highlighting this as the main point miss the crux of having a manager with a sense of direction, this is completely lost under Solskjaer we are going nowhere but the team decides to turn up for big games and is shambolic for the rest. Let's give Ole a round of applause for decent win percentages against 6 league teams out of 20.
Records against the top 6 means absolutely nothing if there's no consistency again LVG revisited. Fans who keep highlighting this as the main point miss the crux of having a manager with a sense of direction, this is completely lost under Solskjaer we are going nowhere but the team decides to turn up for big games and is shambolic for the rest. Let's give Ole a round of applause for decent win percentages against 6 league teams out of 20.
That wasn't my point. I don't think sticking with Ole is a good idea.
But tbh, any coach who is smart and serious enough about his career should stay away from us. Then, we'd end up with the ones who are not smart and serious enough. That's the problem.
We're seriously fecked.
Ah right Football Man/Person/People got you.
VDS was obviously a player but Marotta is interesting as he wasn't though he has worked in football for a long time.
I'm interested in your opinion on how long a person has to work within football before they become a 'Football person''?
I think we are still a very attractive destination for good managers. Massive club, good transfer budget (maybe not Sheikh level good but one of the biggest in the world), very low expectations and a big portion of fanbase who feel they have to blindly support the manager no matter what. Finish comfortably TOP 4, have a decent cup run and your job is safe. You don't get that in many big clubs, if any at all.
So we keep the dude who won everything there is to win then
What you said is literally we're very attractive for the ones who like comfort zones.
Problem is, very few of such are winners.
I dont know. Poch have 60-70 percent chance of being the right one. He has 90 percent chance to be much better than ole.
Ole has probably 20 percent chance to turn things around. Even if he does turn this around he probably will repeat the same boom bust cycle next year.
Nothing is guaranteed. But I'll take my chance with poch. A big chance of something is still better than a small chance of something
Ole has probably 20 percent chance to turn things around. Even if he does turn this around he probably will repeat the same boom bust cycle next year.
Nothing is guaranteed. But I'll take my chance with poch. A big chance of something is still better than a small chance of something
Not really, if you manage to win the CL or especially PL, you would instantly become a God amongst our fans.
Sorry about this type.
You don't get what I mean.
The manager is the one who is largely responsible to motivate his players. If he's someone who like the comfort zones, so would his players. And you don't win big things staying in the comfort zones.
Any manager smart enough would realise it's basically impossible to win big things with our current structures, direction and leadership. Like Klopp, that fecker was really smart wasn't him.
I don't get this point at all. Liverpool's board/leadership/structure/whatever you call it doesn't stop Klopp from winning stuff and they are much more money pinching than us. They just have a good coach who knows what he is doing, it's not a rocket science. We blame our "structure" because it's a very easy target and a perfect excuse for our failing managers. Our managers are being backed like pretty much no others, they definitely have a very good platform to succeed. Problem is we had 2 clueless, 1 dinosaur and 1 chasing payouts from sackings.
No. Go for the progressive ones.
Your made up percentages mean nothing. 90% chance we don't end up with Poch 2019 league version which was far worse than Ole this year? Based on what?
He's an option but should not be United's only option.
Is Porch’s football style that much different from Ole when he’s got us playing well? I think aside from Maguire, this team is well placed for Poch.
Poch could be a great coach for the wonderful crop of youngsters at the club.
My worry with Poch is that his style is so similar is that if he doesn’t get up and running quickly the fans would be on his back. I think we need do see huge improvements quickly for any change to be effective with the fans.
Poch could be a great coach for the wonderful crop of youngsters at the club.
My worry with Poch is that his style is so similar is that if he doesn’t get up and running quickly the fans would be on his back. I think we need do see huge improvements quickly for any change to be effective with the fans.
Even if he's not the best option, he's much better than what we've got at the moment.
He should be given a chance if he is in line with the global vision. Apart from that I have no problems hiring and sacking managers if it doesn't work out - it's literally what every top club does since the last decades and they have been successful.
The days of Fergie and Guy Roux are long gone at top level.
He should be given a chance if he is in line with the global vision. Apart from that I have no problems hiring and sacking managers if it doesn't work out - it's literally what every top club does since the last decades and they have been successful.
The days of Fergie and Guy Roux are long gone at top level.
It's a no for me on Poch.
I stand by my comments on here the club will be in a vastly better position when Ole leaves than when he joined it as a manager both for playing staff and proper football infrastructure. I think a few are looking at the myth of Poch rather than the reality. His record in the crunch games isn't great and there was quite a few games that could have propelled Spurs onto the next level yet they bottled it and just went around kicking players and getting booked. Key game lost in the dressing room before a single ball was kicked (Chelsea iirc)
Will he make Shaw a better player or more athletic, or have better positional awareness. Will he make Rashford into a great goal scorer rather than scorer of great goals (think Ole is better placed to develop that). Thats just a few examples.
His preferred style is 4-2-3-1 if I am not mistaken so are you going to get a tune out of Pogba ? Fit Donny, Bruno, Fred in ? Thats an issue created by the cretins running the club.
I stand by my comments on here the club will be in a vastly better position when Ole leaves than when he joined it as a manager both for playing staff and proper football infrastructure. I think a few are looking at the myth of Poch rather than the reality. His record in the crunch games isn't great and there was quite a few games that could have propelled Spurs onto the next level yet they bottled it and just went around kicking players and getting booked. Key game lost in the dressing room before a single ball was kicked (Chelsea iirc)
Will he make Shaw a better player or more athletic, or have better positional awareness. Will he make Rashford into a great goal scorer rather than scorer of great goals (think Ole is better placed to develop that). Thats just a few examples.
His preferred style is 4-2-3-1 if I am not mistaken so are you going to get a tune out of Pogba ? Fit Donny, Bruno, Fred in ? Thats an issue created by the cretins running the club.
I think Pochettino is a pretty guaranteed way to be looking for another manager again in 2-3 years.
Although as long as Woodward is doing what he does we won't get any manager who won't come under that category, because any manager with ambitions and the ability to do better would be smart enough not to come here.
We only got Jose because he was basically obsessed with managing United just so it was on his CV
Although as long as Woodward is doing what he does we won't get any manager who won't come under that category, because any manager with ambitions and the ability to do better would be smart enough not to come here.
We only got Jose because he was basically obsessed with managing United just so it was on his CV
Proven to be not true - many top managers don't trust the people in charge of the club eg. Klopp, Ancelotti, etc.
I'm not sure about that. With United you have plenty of resources, along lower expectations compared to anywhere else. You don't have the same level of interference from Woodward compared to Levy or Real and we're still a top club that is a sleeping giant - if a certain manager can improve us he will be very highly regarded. If he fails he can still land another top job if he has build a credible resume before United - hell even Moyes landed Sociedad, WH and Sunderland easily.
It's a nice place to be whilst also collecting a fat paycheck. A non brainer for all top managers.
We really have become Liverpool of yesteryear.
Top managers want to win things and can get their big pay check wherever they decide to go. They don't tend to settle for taking jobs where they will not be allwoed the resource to succeed and as a result end up being painted as a failure.
Remember that United tried to get Klopp and he turned them down essentially because he didn't Woodward's idea of how things would work.
Spurs haven't really been doing anything that would be considered a success at United so I don't think there's much of a comparison there. The difference I can see is that at Spurs Jose has more freedom to manager the players. At United he couldn't even drop Pogba or treat him the same as the rest of the team without interference, presumably because Pogba is important to the marketing revenue.
Whilst I agree with the general Woodward being the issue, the summer signings and stacking the academy with oodles of talent has probably given someone the best chance of succeeding here if they came in now. We've shifted a couple of the deadwood and they'd just need to finish off the job.
I think someone like Poch would love to work with the talent of Greenwood, Rashford, Bruno and Martial. Not to mention having lads like Elanga, Mejbri, Diallo, Pellestri, Tuanzebe, Mengi to mould into top players