An update on dealing with some of the excessive negativity on here

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Niall

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Many of you have probably read the thread about the "disgraceful level of support for the club on these forums". That has sparked a discussion among the modmins and we've decided it's time to address some of the excessively negative posts on here.

Specifically, posts that are nothing but a hysterical attack on the team, a specific player or the manager. These need to stop.

Examples:
  • "We're so shit"
  • "He's such an awful player"
  • "What a donkey Lukaku is"
  • "Sell this fool"
  • "McTominay is an awful footballer"
  • "The manager is rubbish"
  • "I hope we lose so Mourinho gets the sack"
These kinds of comments add nothing to discussions and are ruining many threads on here. From now on the modmins will be clamping down on that kind of thing with warnings and bans for repeat offenders.

We see these kind of posts most prominently in the match threads and player performance threads, but they are showing up in other discussions as well. We know posts in the match threads are in the heat of the moment, and we already allow a lot leniency in those threads, but that's no excuse for these kind of hateful posts.

Pogue said it perfectly in one of his posts in the "disgraceful support" thread:
Pogue Mahone said:
I think it’s entirely normal for someone invested in a game to come out with stuff like “What the feck is McTominay doing there? Why did he stop tracking Willian? That’s shocking defending”

What makes the match-day thread so “special” is that the exact same incident would prompt variants of “McTominay is a really shit footballer” “He wouldn’t get in a Championship team” “Players like him are the reason we’ve so shit now” “I actually hate him” etc etc
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The type of posts listed in his second paragraph are what I'm talking about.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you can't express negative opinions. You don't like how we're playing, that's fine. You don't think Mourinho is the right man for the job, fair enough. You think Lukaku's first touch is poor, well ok then. Those kinds of opinions are still perfectly ok to post but need to be expressed in a reasonable fashion. Make your point and back it up. Getting hysterical and posting rubbish like the examples above is just not on anymore.

Furthermore, we'll be closing player performance threads during matches from now on. They'll be open again once the match finishes. There are far too many posts in those threads during matches along the lines of "WTF was that from Smalling? Shocking player!" or "Lukaku scores! Told you he was awesome!!".

Player performance threads are not the place to comment on a specific thing a player does in the middle of a match, they are for discussing a performance after it's finished. Once the match is done you can make a (hopefully) level headed post about how a player performed in the match.

I hope that's clear. Any questions?

Update: Thread now closed, there was sufficient time for questions and answers.
 
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Good move. It will most likely cause more work for the mods in the short term (fpr whoch we thank you) but I am sure that this will improve the Caf overall.
 
It feels a bit Rawkish IMO, I mean do these new guideliness cover posters making sweeping statements about other posters like "feck off and support City/Barca" when they aren't happy with posters being negative about a performance or the direction of the team? and are these guideliness also in place for the discussion of players from other teams? Or is it still ok to call Andy Carroll a donkey and Granit Xhaka a shit footballer? I mean your example of “Players like him are the reason we’ve so shit now” seems a reasonable point of view that you could apply to several lowered standards in what it takes to be a Man United player these days, not McTominay specifically.

Everyone will obviously have to abide by the changes but I personally never felt an issue posting on the Caf just because other posters posts weren't to my liking, I just ignore them and quote people who I think make points worth discussing.
 
Niall said:
Many of you have probably read the thread about the "disgraceful level of support for the club on these forums". That has sparked a discussion among the modmins and we've decided it's time to address some of the excessively negative posts on here.

Specifically, posts that are nothing but a hysterical attack on the team, a specific player or the manager. These need to stop.

Examples:
  • "We're so shit"
  • "He's such an awful player"
  • "What a donkey Lukaku is"
  • "Sell this fool"
  • "McTominay is an awful footballer"
  • "The manager is rubbish"
  • "I hope we lose so Mourinho gets the sack"
These kinds of comments add nothing to discussions and are ruining many threads on here. From now on the modmins will be clamping down on that kind of thing with warnings and bans for repeat offenders.

We see these kind of posts most prominently in the match threads and player performance threads, but they are showing up in other discussions as well. We know posts in the match threads are in the heat of the moment, and we already allow a lot leniency in those threads, but that's no excuse for these kind of hateful posts.

Pogue said it perfectly in one of his posts in the "disgraceful support" thread:


The type of posts listed in his second paragraph are what I'm talking about.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that you can't express negative opinions. You don't like how we're playing, that's fine. You don't think Mourinho is the right man for the job, fair enough. You think Lukaku's first touch is poor, well ok then. Those kinds of opinions are still perfectly ok to post but need to be expressed in a reasonable fashion. Make your point and back it up. Getting hysterical and posting rubbish like the examples above is just not on anymore.

Furthermore, we'll be closing player performance threads during matches from now on. They'll be open again once the match finishes. There are far too many posts in those threads during matches along the lines of "WTF was that from Smalling? Shocking player!" or "Lukaku scores! Told you he was awesome!!".

Player performance threads are not the place to comment on a specific thing a player does in the middle of a match, they are for discussing a performance after it's finished. Once the match is done you can make a (hopefully) level headed post about how a player performed in the match.

I hope that's clear. Any questions?
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Brilliant.

As an older forum member this is great news!

Thanks modmins. Made my day.
 
Closing the player threads makes sense during the game, that's not the place for in match updates. However football is a game of intense highs and lows. When you watch someone sky a penalty, they're the worst you've ever seen. When they bury it, they're a god. People come to the cafe during and after games to share those intense bursts of emotion, and yes that often spills out in snarky and juvenile ways. Such is the internet. But asking people to replace those outbursts of emotion with reasoned reflections is, in my opinion, missing the point in football. Certainly its important not to let things spiral in threads, but I hope some common sense can be applied when its simply people expressing frustration.
 
So how exactly should we say that Smalling is crap? I mean he is really a poor poor player. Suggestions would geniunely help.
 
Unmutual said:
Closing the player threads makes sense during the game, that's not the place for in match updates. However football is a game of intense highs and lows. When you watch someone sky a penalty, they're the worst you've ever seen. When they bury it, they're a god. People come to the cafe during and after games to share those intense bursts of emotion, and yes that often spills out in snarky and juvenile ways. Such is the internet. But asking people to replace those outbursts of emotion with reasoned reflections is, in my opinion, missing the point in football. Certainly its important not to let things spiral in threads, but I hope some common sense can be applied when its simply people expressing frustration.
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It's much better. It gives the poster the chance to clear his head a little bit and focus on the game rather going on a rant that doesn't serve even himself. I mean how can anyone focus on the game while he's posting on the internet ? It doesn't make sense for me.
 
Although these posts are hardly constructive, shutting down discussion like this is never good.

It is better for such users to be challenged to explain in detail their frustrations, rather than saying 'you are not thinking the right way'.

Emotion is part of football and I expect free speech to allow people to express their negativity about United's playing style. I mean what's next - giving out awards to 'true reds'. It just feels RAWKish, as someone said earlier.
 
Rightnr said:
Although these posts are hardly constructive, shutting down discussion like this is never good.

It is better for such users to be challenged to explain in detail their frustrations, rather than saying 'you are not thinking the right way'.

Emotion is part of football and I expect free speech to allow people to express their negativity about United's playing style. I mean what's next - giving out awards to 'true reds'. It just feels RAWKish, as someone said earlier.
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That's exactly what the announcement is saying. Nobody's saying that you can't criticise the team, or the managers or the players. I think you've gotten the wrong message from this announcement.
 
devilish said:
So how exactly should we say that Smalling is crap? I mean he is really a poor poor player. Suggestions would geniunely help.
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I think rather than just say xyz is shit explain why?

Make it constructive and no one can complain. Repeat moaning with no substance is killing the place lately.

It's simply much needed quality control. Nothing more.
 
Snide exaggerated reactions aren’t discussions. There is nothing Rawkish about clamping down on premature drivel in the middle of an ongoing match. Some of the over the top praise at the littlest of things is also a result of these.
 
Devil may care said:
It feels a bit Rawkish IMO, I mean do these new guideliness cover posters making sweeping statements about other posters like "feck off and support City/Barca" when they aren't happy with posters being negative about a performance or the direction of the team? and are these guideliness also in place for the discussion of players from other teams? Or is it still ok to call Andy Carroll a donkey and Granit Xhaka a shit footballer? I mean your example of “Players like him are the reason we’ve so shit now” seems a reasonable point of view that you could apply to several lowered standards in what it takes to be a Man United player these days, not McTominay specifically.

Everyone will obviously have to abide by the changes but I personally never felt an issue posting on the Caf just because other posters posts weren't to my liking, I just ignore them and quote people who I think make points worth discussing.
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Rightnr said:
Although these posts are hardly constructive, shutting down discussion like this is never good.

It is better for such users to be challenged to explain in detail their frustrations, rather than saying 'you are not thinking the right way'.

Emotion is part of football and I expect free speech to allow people to express their negativity about United's playing style. I mean what's next - giving out awards to 'true reds'. It just feels RAWKish, as someone said earlier.
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@Niall
 
Devil may care said:
It feels a bit Rawkish IMO, I mean do these new guideliness cover posters making sweeping statements about other posters like "feck off and support City/Barca" when they aren't happy with posters being negative about a performance or the direction of the team? and are these guideliness also in place for the discussion of players from other teams? Or is it still ok to call Andy Carroll a donkey and Granit Xhaka a shit footballer? I mean your example of “Players like him are the reason we’ve so shit now” seems a reasonable point of view that you could apply to several lowered standards in what it takes to be a Man United player these days, not McTominay specifically.

Everyone will obviously have to abide by the changes but I personally never felt an issue posting on the Caf just because other posters posts weren't to my liking, I just ignore them and quote people who I think make points worth discussing.
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There is a way to word things to be fair. It doesnt add to the discussion if you rant - better off with "I honestly don't think 'Daffy Duck' is good enough, not the first time he has being poor" than "Daffy Duck, seriously feck off already you mug".

Football has no right or wrong answer, it's the beauty of true debate. But these threads are visible to those who are not logged in also - the pleasure of ignore not always at their reach. Don't want to appear as trailer trash and blaming everything and everyone - it is for repeat offenders looking at Nialls posts, the lads who don't take a breath and count to 10 when someone makes a mistake on the pitch are the ones who are in trouble here, which is no harm.
 
Happy for it to happen in the United forum and a change is welcome.
The matchday thread is meant to be reaction snippets though. No one is gonna post a reasoned, well thought out post for it to be buried two mins later. Plus, we tend to play a lot of crap football at the moment, so that's what's gonna be reacted to.
I don't really understand those that want rid of it. If you don't like it then you don't have to go anywhere near it. Plenty obviously do.
 
devilish said:
So how exactly should we say that Smalling is crap? I mean he is really a poor poor player. Suggestions would geniunely help.
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Or Valencia is shit at crossing, because he really is and that's fact. Feels rawkish to me but I'll live I guess
 
VeevaVee said:
Happy for it to happen in the United forum and a change is welcome.
The matchday thread is meant to be reaction snippets though. No one is gonna post a reasoned, well thought out post for it to be buried two mins later. Plus, we tend to play a lot of crap football at the moment, so that's what's gonna be reacted to.
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Aye, as Niall said we're looking to mainly change the United forums.

However posts like I hope we lose in the match day thread are still going to be infracted.
 
TheReligion said:
I think rather than just say xyz is shit explain why?

Make it constructive and no one can complain. Repeat moaning with no substance is killing the place lately.

It's simply much needed quality control. Nothing more.
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well he lacks football brains, his passing beyond the 2 meters radius is erratic at best etc. In my opinion, we've got too many snowflakes tbh. I've read far more personal/insultive insults than Smalling is shite and most were addressed to posters (ie me).

Football is all about passion and sometimes people whose shit in what they do ends up at a top club like ours (think of Bebe, Dong or Moyes)
 
donkeyfish said:
This is nothing but quality control, not policing opinion. Which I think is perfectly reasonable and will make for a better experience.
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Rightnr said:
Although these posts are hardly constructive, shutting down discussion like this is never good.

It is better for such users to be challenged to explain in detail their frustrations, rather than saying 'you are not thinking the right way'.

Emotion is part of football and I expect free speech to allow people to express their negativity about United's playing style. I mean what's next - giving out awards to 'true reds'. It just feels RAWKish, as someone said earlier.
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I think these replies are a knee jerk reaction OR you haven't read the OP correctly.

Nobody is saying you can't express negative opinions about the team, players or manager, just that they have to be constructive and reasoned opinions. Just saying "Smalling is shit" won't cut it. The posts need to be constructive. I don't see anything wrong with this quality control measure at all. I think It's a great idea and badly needed as the forums have descended in to a lot of shit throwing in recent months and full of posts that don't seem to add anything to the discussions at all.
 
Moonred said:
Snide exaggerated reactions aren’t discussions. There is nothing Rawkish about clamping down on premature drivel in the middle of an ongoing match. Some of the over the top praise at the littlest of things is also a result of these.
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Agreed
 
KM said:
Aye, as Niall said we're looking to mainly change the United forums.

However posts like I hope we lose in the match day thread are still going to be infracted.
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Yeah, makes sense. Don't know who said it, but it sounds very newbie.
 
devilish said:
well he lacks football brains, his passing beyond the 2 meters radius is erratic at best etc. In my opinion, we've got too many snowflakes tbh. I've read far more personal insults than Smalling is shite and most were addressed to posters (ie me).
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Well done you’ve literally managed to do what you’re being asked right there it wasn’t hard was it.
 
langster said:
I think these replies are a knee jerk reaction OR you haven't read the OP correctly.

Nobody is saying you can't express negative opinions about the team, players or manager, just that they have to be constructive and reasoned opinions. Just saying "Smalling is shit" won't cut it. The posts need to be constructive. I don't see anything wrong with this quality control measure at all. I think It's a great idea and badly needed as the forums have descended in to a lot of shit throwing in recent months and full of posts that don't seem to add anything to the discussions at all.
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What if Smalling makes a third mistake in two minutes and costs us a goal though? I'd say 'Smalling is shit' is a valid post in the match day thread.
 
Rightnr said:
Although these posts are hardly constructive, shutting down discussion like this is never good.

It is better for such users to be challenged to explain in detail their frustrations, rather than saying 'you are not thinking the right way'.

Emotion is part of football and I expect free speech to allow people to express their negativity about United's playing style. I mean what's next - giving out awards to 'true reds'. It just feels RAWKish, as someone said earlier.
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It ain't discussion though it is just hateful drivel.

Our players go literally from hero to zero in the space of a few weeks and it is baffling.
 
Snowjoe said:
Well done you’ve literally managed to do what you’re being asked right there it wasn’t hard was it.
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I am not a pundit on sky but a fan and should be allowed to write like one.
 
VeevaVee said:
What if Smalling makes a third mistake in two minutes and costs us a goal though? I'd say 'Smalling is shit' is a valid post in the match day thread.
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Could you not say "Smalling is playing shit today"

Many times he has been called out for being poor this year but then a "giant" the next game.
 
If we could have a similar policy for the way we talk about ex United footballers when they are daring to criticise the club that would be great too. We get some very negative comments about Scholes.. when if you think about it, the point he made was ultimately validated by recent performances by Pogba and the tactical adjustment that has been made since. Was there any need to call him a 'shit pundit' just because he disagreed with the manager on a tactical issue. People need to attack the opinion on its merits and not just attack the person who has made it.

Also some of the posts regarding Pogba were also verging on disgraceful support, yet I note in the OP it only relates to certain players and avoids the topic on how he was commented on by a lot of posters. For some reason, trying to defend him was seen as a vilified act but if someone is to call Lukaku out on certain technical deficiencies that is not considered okay.

Overall, a good move which encourages people to be more reasoned in their critiques or praise - but lets hope the forum is policed in a fair manner and we don't turn a blind eye to the actions of a select few.
 
Logged on to say thank you.
Been avoiding the caf lately as best as I could because of how negative the average post became.
 
VeevaVee said:
What if Smalling makes a third mistake in two minutes and costs us a goal though? I'd say 'Smalling is shit' is a valid post in the match day thread.
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No according to @Snowjoe you should analyse every move he made, then describes what he did wrong. Whatever happens please refrain saying the bloody obvious.

Imagine yourself as Gary Neville with his ipad. The only difference is you're doing it pro bono.
 
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