England player and another Premier League star set to come out as gay

Amethyst said:
I see this response so often on this forum. Whenever someone makes a remark and in turn gets called bigoted, homophobic etc., people jump in with this line about how he/she is entitled to his/her opinion.

Where has anyone said 'he's not allowed to think that way, he has no right not to shower with gay men and he's not allowed to feel as though he can express his opinion on the matter'? Nobody has said anything like that unless I've missed something reading through the thread, but it doesn't mean can't or shouldn't be called out for what will be perceived by some to be a homophobic statement (in this case).
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right. But it's funny that my statement, which mostly speaks about my discomfort, has been distorted to the suggestion I'd want to bann people from sports facilities, or that I'd feel threatened by gay men -even to the point of suggesting I'd fear getting aroused. That's just silly.

I don't necessarily believe there's much difference between the predatory nature of young straight and gay men. In general, both are pretty preoccupied with sex. I assume gays could have the same issues with heterosexuality I have with homosexuality. A gay man may not want to see some men naked. Why? Are they afraid these ugly heterosexuals are about to jump them?! I think not.
The 'assumption' other posters mentioned, simply reflects many people's strong association of nudity with sex.
 
Played rugby with a couple of gay lads, I never had a problem showering with them, particularly as they were always quick to offer to wash my back for me.

Top lads.
 
It's kind of odd that we have this apparent wall of tolerance about supporting whoever is going to come out, if they do, but the speculation in the meantime is resulting in a lot of people saying 'feck off, it aint me', like Shaw, which kind of undermines the tolerance thing.

Luke Shaw

✔@LukeShaw23
@UnitedStandMUFC it's not me
270c.png
1f3fc.png
so everyone can shut up now
1f600.png


3:32 PM - 24 Oct 2015
 
Personally, I think they should just come out with it all. It's not like most people care. It's time we got rid of the whole reaction thing, because frankly, I don't want footballers talking about their sexuality at all, be it hetero or homosexual. I just don't give a crap about it. You're a footballer, worry about footballing. Not how you're telling the world audience who your preferred next date is. Way too much emphasize on things like these private matters. :P
 
Brightonian said:
', and the other third is homophobic crap about Danny Welbeck's 'effeminate voice' (:confused::wenger:) and 'it's not natural' and Rozay getting back to his old 'it's the same as having sex with an animal' tricks.
Click to expand...

Genuine question: How is that homophobic? Many gay men do have what would be thought of as an effeminate voice. Stating such doesn't mean you hate/prejudice against/disprove of them.

It's like when a guy says a women is attractive - sexist pig!

Absolute nonsense.
 
Twigginater said:
If you don't want to shower with a gay person you're a bigot. Simple as.
Click to expand...

If a woman doesn't shower with a male friend, is she a lesbian?

Hold on, do we mean like communal showers? Or a kind of one-on-one type thing. When I think of showering with someone I have the image of being enclosed in a fairly small cubicle.
 
Jippy said:
It's kind of odd that we have this apparent wall of tolerance about supporting whoever is going to come out, if they do, but the speculation in the meantime is resulting in a lot of people saying 'feck off, it aint me', like Shaw, which kind of undermines the tolerance thing.

Luke Shaw

✔@LukeShaw23
@UnitedStandMUFC it's not me
270c.png
1f3fc.png
so everyone can shut up now
1f600.png


3:32 PM - 24 Oct 2015
Click to expand...
What else can he say to tell people though? A person stating they're not gay doesn't make them intolerant. It makes them not gay.

Edit: But he could maybe say 'It's not me but I support the cause.'
 
TooBias said:
If a woman doesn't shower with a male friend, is she a lesbian?

Hold on, do we mean like communal showers? Or a kind of one-on-one type thing. When I think of showering with someone I have the image of being enclosed in a fairly small cubicle.
Click to expand...

That's a completely different situation.

In the situation I posted about, this is what happened.

1.) A guy showers every week with his team-mates after a football game.
2.) One of his team-mates comes out as a homosexual.
3.) Suddenly in the original person's head everything has changed, now he refuses to carry on with his same routine and expects the homosexual to go somewhere else.

That's homophobia plain and simple. The idea that just because a person is gay you don't want to shower with them is harmful and wrong. Nothing would have changed in the room, just your own intolerance has become more prevalent. You probably shower with gay men at the gym or at swimming baths all the time.
 
Indeed. If people were telling lies about me I might correct them. That doesn't mean I'd be intolerant of the thing they were 'accusing' me of. It just means I have a low tolerance for people telling lies about me.
 
TooBias said:
Genuine question: How is that homophobic? Many gay men do have what would be thought of as an effeminate voice. Stating such doesn't mean you hate/prejudice against/disprove of them.

It's like when a guy says a women is attractive - sexist pig!

Absolute nonsense.
Click to expand...

It's homophobic in the fact that in this thread there have been constant "guesses" at people who might be gay based on some outdated stereotypes. We all act disgusted that Le Seux got bullied for being gay for reading a broadsheet, but in this thread we've got people basing their ideas on similar things. People can sound, dress and act how they want and there's no way of judging someone's sexuality based on that.
 
To be honest if anyone was saying I was gay I'd give a similar response. The rumors have started on assumption, probably because he wears such skinny jeans.
 
Uzz said:
What else can he say to tell people though? A person stating they're not gay doesn't make them intolerant. It makes them not gay.

Edit: But he could maybe say 'It's not me but I support the cause.'
Click to expand...
The 'it's not me so shut up now' bit suggests he is a bit offended by it. I can understand his position tbf.
 
TooBias said:
Genuine question: How is that homophobic? Many gay men do have what would be thought of as an effeminate voice. Stating such doesn't mean you hate/prejudice against/disprove of them.

It's like when a guy says a women is attractive - sexist pig!

Absolute nonsense.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Obviously there are a few people I had no idea they were gay. But there have been loads and loads of gay men who have been very very camp. I lived with one in halls too, and he was incredibly camp. I don't know why it is, but for some reason being gay also a lot of time makes you act camp too. It's one of life's mysteries.
 
Jippy said:
The 'it's not me so shut up now' bit suggests he is a bit offended by it. I can understand his position tbf.
Click to expand...
Tbh, if someone accused me of being gay solely by wearing tight jeans I'd be annoyed as well. There is no correlation between wearing tight jeans and being gay (that's why I'm assuming people thought it was Luke Shaw).
 
I haven't commented on this so far, but what I don't get is why print this article? When these lads want to make an announcement, if they will now, then print the story. All the paper has created is loads of unneccesary speculation about who it is. Probably incorrectly as usual. Leading to loads of lads coming out with denials they shouldn't feel obliged to make anyway. Why should anyone have to prove what sexuality they are? It's their business not ours.
 
Uzz said:
Tbh, if someone accused me of being gay solely by wearing tight jeans I'd be annoyed as well. There is no correlation between wearing tight jeans and being gay (that's why I'm assuming people thought it was Luke Shaw).
Click to expand...

Yup. Unfortunately in today's world being accused as gay when you are not is an insult and most straight men would take offense. It's an attack on your manhood. As homophobic as this sentence sounds, it's the way it is. I also would take offense.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
I haven't commented on this so far, but what I don't get is why print this article? When these lads want to make an announcement, if they will now, then print the story. All the paper has created is loads of unneccesary speculation about who it is. Probably incorrectly as usual. Leading to loads of lads coming out with denials they shouldn't feel obliged to make anyway. Why should anyone have to prove what sexuality they are? It's their business not ours.
Click to expand...
Bingo.
 
Twigginater said:
It's homophobic in the fact that in this thread there have been constant "guesses" at people who might be gay based on some outdated stereotypes. We all act disgusted that Le Seux got bullied for being gay for reading a broadsheet, but in this thread we've got people basing their ideas on similar things. People can sound, dress and act how they want and there's no way of judging someone's sexuality based on that.
Click to expand...

I dunno. I'm yet to meet a straight man who speaks like Alan Carr, for example. Not that I think Welbeck has a voice like that, I'm just saying, from experience, a man's voice is a pretty good indicator of his sexuality. Not saying all gay men have a feminised voice, but it's not exactly rare. A lot of lesbians have short, 'manly' hairstyles. It's not homophobic to say so, it's just an observable correlation.
 
vi1lain said:
Naaaaah he's a bigot.

Why would you be uncomfortable sharing a shower with a gay man? Are you afraid he'll be looking at you, sizing you up, and will possibly approach you for sex? Objectify you in the same way other men objectify women? Or maybe you're afraid you might like it. (not you personally, just any man that feels this way)

Nobody can be forced to shower with someone, but the reason why someone would feel uncomfortable showering with a gay male is deep rooted and most don't understand why.
If you truly don't have any issues with gay men, then you should feel comfortable treating them like any other male.
Click to expand...

To be perfectly fair, no one would bat eyes if a woman declared she was uncomfortable sharing showers with a heterosexual man she wasn't involved with.

I'm not comfortable bathing around men period (hetero or homo), if that makes me a bigot, when's the first meeting?

May I clarify that the uncomfortableness is only internal. I share a work gym with hundreds of other guys, and I plan my undressing for when the gym is usually empty.
 
adexkola said:
To be perfectly fair, no one would bat eyes if a woman declared she was uncomfortable sharing showers with a heterosexual man she wasn't involved with.

I'm not comfortable bathing around men period (hetero or homo), if that makes me a bigot, when's the first meeting?
Click to expand...
The fact people think it is bigotry, when some people as you say don't want to shower with anyone else. There are folks out there who are just bloody shy.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
I haven't commented on this so far, but what I don't get is why print this article? When these lads want to make an announcement, if they will now, then print the story. All the paper has created is loads of unneccesary speculation about who it is. Probably incorrectly as usual. Leading to loads of lads coming out with denials they shouldn't feel obliged to make anyway. Why should anyone have to prove what sexuality they are? It's their business not ours.
Click to expand...

Good point.
 
adexkola said:
To be perfectly fair, no one would bat eyes if a woman declared she was uncomfortable sharing showers with a heterosexual man she wasn't involved with.

I'm not comfortable bathing around men period (hetero or homo), if that makes me a bigot, when's the first meeting?
Click to expand...

There's a difference between being uncomfortable sharing showers, and only being uncomfortable sharing showers because someone is gay.
Their sexuality shouldn't matter.

So no you wouldn't be a bigot because you aren't comfortable sharing showers with other men, very few people are comfortable or want to share showers.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
I haven't commented on this so far, but what I don't get is why print this article? When these lads want to make an announcement, if they will now, then print the story. All the paper has created is loads of unneccesary speculation about who it is. Probably incorrectly as usual. Leading to loads of lads coming out with denials they shouldn't feel obliged to make anyway. Why should anyone have to prove what sexuality they are? It's their business not ours.
Click to expand...
If you want the reason they printed this article, have a look at this thread. It's purely designed to get clicks and reaction. If it causes the players in question (if indeed they even exist) to come out then they'll be happy, as they'll claim it as an exclusive. If they cause other players to come out or be identified then they're equally happy. It's another story to write. And if they cause people to react offensively, or in a way designed to insult the players, they can write stories along the lines of "...the victim of vile online abuse...at his lowest ebb the STAR even contemplated suicide....made him consider quitting the game he loves..."

Modern media. You report the news in such a way as to generate more new. All too predictable, really.
 
Brophs said:
If you want the reason they printed this article, have a look at this thread. It's purely designed to get clicks and reaction. If it causes the players in question (if indeed they even exist) to come out then they'll be happy, as they'll claim it as an exclusive. If they cause other players to come out or be identified then they're equally happy. It's another story to write. And if they cause people to react offensively, or in a way designed to insult the players, they can write stories along the lines of "...the victim of vile online abuse...at his lowest ebb the STAR even contemplated suicide....made him consider quitting the game he loves..."

Modern media. You report the news in such a way as to generate more new. All too predictable, really.
Click to expand...
It's downright nasty. They will say they are supporting gay rights, but actually they are making it 10 times worse.
 
vi1lain said:
There's a difference between being uncomfortable sharing showers, and only being uncomfortable sharing showers because someone is gay.
Their sexuality shouldn't matter.

So no you wouldn't be a bigot because you aren't comfortable sharing showers with other men, very few people are comfortable or want to share showers.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. I agree. The fear of showering next to a gay guy is irrational to me. The odds of him being an aggressive rapist are thin I bet.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
It's downright nasty. They will say they are supporting gay rights, but actually they are making it 10 times worse.
Click to expand...
Of course. It's the adult equivalent of the old playground routine of telling your mates you had a secret but couldn't tell anyone? What's the best that was going to happen? You didn't mention it because you wanted it kept a secret, that's for sure.
 
I can't remember the name of the cricketer, but he handled it in the best way. (Steven Davies?)

His team/team mates had know for ages, as did the ECB and the ECB set up. It was like an open secret. The press and all of those outside of that circle didn't have an idea until he came out properly. But tbh, nothing really changed for him as the people he was working with on a day to day basis had known.

So the press really couldn't have a field day or do the whole mock sympathy angle.
 
what was Shaw meant to do.

there's an article in a national newspaper saying he's gay. If he ignores it, the rumour mill will just get bigger and bigger. He was right to say it wasn't him if it isn't (perhaps with a further note supporting the anonymous person(s) though)

Imagine your name being branded around the world as being a closet homosexual. Every day you come into the office and people would talk and whisper behind your back etc. I'd want that cleared up as quick as possible too if i were Shaw. It's not like he's come out saying anything bad about homosexuality like a lot of young 19 years olds probably would do were they accused of being gay
 
adexkola said:
Ah I see. I agree. The fear of showering next to a gay guy is irrational to me. The odds of him being an aggressive rapist are thin I bet.
Click to expand...

You're right, stats show that most male rapists are actually straight oddly enough. But that's for another thread.
 
Not having a specific go at any posters who've used this term but I think it says everything about the debate that people still refer to it as being accused of being gay.
 
We need an rvn said:
what was Shaw meant to do.

there's an article in a national newspaper saying he's gay. If he ignores it, the rumour mill will just get bigger and bigger. He was right to say it wasn't him if it isn't (perhaps with a further note supporting the anonymous person(s) though)

Imagine your name being branded around the world as being a closet homosexual. Every day you come into the office and people would talk and whisper behind your back etc. I'd want that cleared up as quick as possible too if i were Shaw. It's not like he's come out saying anything bad about homosexuality like a lot of young 19 years olds probably would do were they accused of being gay
Click to expand...
It's the way he said it. I'm sure he didn't mean to, but "so you can shut up now" sounds like people were accusing him of something bad.

Also, I think you're being very unfair on 19 year olds.
 
Big Sam anyone?? That moustache was a dead give away.

I can easily picture him in a taxi hat, leather waist coat and arseless chaps.

I'd also say he gives a great hug.
 
Seriously, I'd say the story is completely made up. I mean the likelihood of their being a few gay players in the league, and probably in the current or former England set up, is probably fairly high but it wouldn't surprise me if they journo knew no more than those speculating in this thread.

Write a bullshit article with some fairly broad statements, and hope that it forces a few to come out and give you some more stories to sell your shitrag paper.

The worst case scenario is no one comes out and you write a story about how intolerant football is to sell your shitrag paper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.