Few months? Ive been very consistent on Sancho from before we even signed him (just take a look at the Grealish vs Sancho thread from the summer) , and never really rated Rashford.How a few months can change everyone’s opinion so much..
Will we see a front 3 of Rashford - Mason - Sancho?
- Thread starter The Corinthian
- Start date
Wtf is wrong with people? Rashford shouldn’t be anywhere near this team. I swear our fans have a glutton for punishment.
For all those that are saying Rashford has been poor...well, yea duh. I'm trying to think a player of ours that has been in consistently good form (>3 games in a row). Aside from De Gea, anyone know who's been played well for 3 games in a row? At a stretch I'd say Lindelof.
The other thing is, a mobile quick 3 of Rashford - Mason - Sancho will at least be something different than seeing Ronaldo + Cavani, who are hardly pulling up trees themselves.
The other thing is, a mobile quick 3 of Rashford - Mason - Sancho will at least be something different than seeing Ronaldo + Cavani, who are hardly pulling up trees themselves.
Pressing isn't even Rashford's biggest problem under RR or any modern manager we might hire. It's his decision making and general football intelligence, even when on form. He has a long way to go to be a starting forward in a team with any kind of possession or passing sophistication. A very very long way. Rangnick's football isn't even that complicated and he has made every wrong passing decision in his 4 games.
Would like to see it tested in the FA cup game.
Rashford - Greenwood - sancho should have been the starting front 3 going forward (Sancho- Martial - Greenwood whilst rashford was injured). 3 of the most exciting young english talents when on form, all have had seasons with more than 20 goals and assists. We should have been building around them.
Its actually one of the things that genuinely annoys me with the club and did with Ole as well. Those 3 attackers with a competent midfield behind them could have been causing some serious damage this season.
Its actually one of the things that genuinely annoys me with the club and did with Ole as well. Those 3 attackers with a competent midfield behind them could have been causing some serious damage this season.
It would be nice to think that was the future but based on what we've seen I think they're some way off.
When you think about what we see from them I can't see how they click. Greenwood/Rashford typically play as individuals and are primarily focussed on creating a shooting opp for themselves, they don't often make runs to create space for others or make great runs in the box (e.g. I don't often think that they're in the right place but the ball just didn't come as you generally see with Ronaldo/Cavani).
Sancho to me seems to be a player who thrives more on linking up and isn't someone who works well in isolation. So I don't think he really would play well alongside those two as they currently are.
The other issue is who is the 4th attacker e.g. the attacking mid/number 10. Assuming it's Bruno I think you again have an issue in that he is a big risk taker which alongside Greenwood and in particular Rashford isn't a great combo as I think you just can't have an attack with so many players who will frequently give away the ball/take the higher risk option than the simple option. Maybe you could get away with it if you had a top midfield/defence but with our squad I think it just adds more pressure.
A lot of this is attitude rather than ability I think so hopefully with the right coaching they can mature and be a good unit but right now I think it would be the same old issue of being an ineffective attack reliant on individual moments with the threat of the occasional good counter.
When you think about what we see from them I can't see how they click. Greenwood/Rashford typically play as individuals and are primarily focussed on creating a shooting opp for themselves, they don't often make runs to create space for others or make great runs in the box (e.g. I don't often think that they're in the right place but the ball just didn't come as you generally see with Ronaldo/Cavani).
Sancho to me seems to be a player who thrives more on linking up and isn't someone who works well in isolation. So I don't think he really would play well alongside those two as they currently are.
The other issue is who is the 4th attacker e.g. the attacking mid/number 10. Assuming it's Bruno I think you again have an issue in that he is a big risk taker which alongside Greenwood and in particular Rashford isn't a great combo as I think you just can't have an attack with so many players who will frequently give away the ball/take the higher risk option than the simple option. Maybe you could get away with it if you had a top midfield/defence but with our squad I think it just adds more pressure.
A lot of this is attitude rather than ability I think so hopefully with the right coaching they can mature and be a good unit but right now I think it would be the same old issue of being an ineffective attack reliant on individual moments with the threat of the occasional good counter.
Rashford? No he should not be an automatic starter. He has been crap and so has Sancho so far.
He would be fine if Martial or Cavani played centrally and held up the ball before making passes in to Rashford so he can take shots on goals like in the past.
Now instead we have Ronaldo with no hold up or link ability - cannot set up Rashford, Sancho or Greenwood when playing out wide - so the compass is changed and all of Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood have to set up Ronaldo. If they don't they are selfish.
Agree - Ronaldo joining has definitely disrupted our final third play.
We do X people want Y, we do Y people want Z.
I get if it's not working then any change seems attractive but we're still very early stages of trying to coach this team into a new style. You don't change after a handful of games.
I get if it's not working then any change seems attractive but we're still very early stages of trying to coach this team into a new style. You don't change after a handful of games.
That give him an excuse to just stop working for the team? Does Ronaldo forced him to stop trying?
When he failed to pass a simple ball is that also the fault of Ronaldo?
When he keep running into 3-4 players without trying to pass, is that because of Ronaldo?
When Newcastle players get pass him for fun, is it also because of Ronaldo?
And why he need some one to held up the ball so he can take shot like this is the only way he can plays? Is he a prime Ronaldo? Why is his "past" mean anything when we haven't won anything meaningful for the last few year with him as our most important attacker?
Ronaldo doesn't do well recently and he deserve to be dropped for a while, but the ready made excuses for Rashford is just ridiculous. Ronaldo was there for half a season and some people act like without him Rashford would already be a world class player.
I just want him to work hard and play football to United standard, but apparently it's not possible because of Ronaldo...
As a basis to build a pressing team, having a front three has less interest in pressing than almost any frontline, much less one with young players of their age seems...flawed?
Hopefully not. Rashford does not deserve to start as of now. Mason yes. Sancho is still hit and miss. The fact is out old men strikers are showing them up (except maybe Mason).
Rashford has more presses than Ronaldo
This trio will never ever work , someone has to be sacrificed and then add a workhorse akin to tecez or rooney on top.
To be honest I don't feel even 2 of them 3 in the lineup is a good idea unless greenwood matures into a more physical center forward and they collectively start working hard.
To be honest I don't feel even 2 of them 3 in the lineup is a good idea unless greenwood matures into a more physical center forward and they collectively start working hard.
Outplayed
??You seriously should check the peformance thread of Ronaldo, Cavani then Greenwood to see the difference. Especially after last match.
My dream is to see Sancho almost like a false 9:
Bruno can play a false 9 role maybe until Sancho adapts. Players like Amad can play as inverted forwards too.
I don't need people saying it's not realistic because I didn't say it was, neither do I need comments about Rashford needing to be sold because its nothing new in my notebook.
Rashford -- Greenwood
《Sancho》
Like a false 9 but one that can decide to stay forward centrally, or to overlap on the left to get this:《Sancho》
Sancho - Rashford - Greenwood
Or overlap from the right and we get this -
Rashford - Greenwood - Sancho
Giving Sancho a free role to play his through balls in 3 different lanes to a left footed and right footed inverted forward.
Bruno can play a false 9 role maybe until Sancho adapts. Players like Amad can play as inverted forwards too.
I don't need people saying it's not realistic because I didn't say it was, neither do I need comments about Rashford needing to be sold because its nothing new in my notebook.
Last edited:
As others have said, all good trios need one workhorse, whether it's Rooney, Suarez, Benzema or Firmino
I don't see any of Rashford, Greenwood or Sancho volunteering to be that workhorse guy.
I don't see any of Rashford, Greenwood or Sancho volunteering to be that workhorse guy.
Yeah, that's the danger IMO. We've just been carved apart by Wolves (and even some teams before them) through their utilization of width - exploiting our narrowness. Not to mention that the formation really doesn't suit our squad/players. We've seen most other managers adopt successful pressing football through variations of 3-5-2, 3-4-3 and/or 4-3-3. So RR need's to really think it through and he doesn't have a lot of time if top 4 is a legitimate target.
Anyway, on topic, Rashford is a big concern to me @The Corinthian - he's been "abysmally out of form" for a very, very long time now. And his decision making is seemingly getting worse. Last season it was the injuries he was carrying, being overplayed....so hopefully he gets it together soon.
If they're all on form, and supported by Bruno, it could be a really exciting frontline.
If they're all on form, and supported by Bruno, it could be a really exciting frontline.
Yea, he's sticking rigidly with that formation but it's hampering us more than anything. The full backs are generally getting a lot higher up the pitch though, so we do have some width in their half. I still think Rashford and Sancho can be devastating in the channels between oppo's CB and FBs, we need to get them in that position more often with the fullbacks staying wide to open up the space.
He's been pretty poor, but I'm willing to give him some leeway considering most of our team have been poor and we're lacking any consistency or quality.
And Ronaldo is also not a hard worker, so how is Rashford has more presses than Ronaldo mean he's not lazy? The standard of playing for United is just press more than a 36 year old Ronaldo? Does Rashford works for the team or he works for himself? If he works for the team then why does "press more than Ronaldo" matter?
The fact that you ignored all my points and just keep trying to bring back the problem to Ronaldo, while my whole points is that Rashford's trouble is on his own, shows that you don't have anything to say or prove. You just keep pushing the narrative that Ronaldo ruined Rashford everywhere in the forum and hope it stick. Remember again Ronaldo is here for only half a season and Rashford has been an important member and receive world class salary for a few years now already and he hardly plays to the standard required from his salary and status.
I know a certain group desperately want people to look away from Rashford attitude issue. Surely you guy can try, but people can watch the game and judge for themselves. Remember the Europa League final? Do we had Ronaldo back then to excuse Rashford's laziness and sulky attitude or you will pull out another ready made excuse?
It's ok to have poor form, everyone has that. But it's not ok to have Rashford attitude. He's a senior players, earn top salary and it seems he can't even try to work for the team.
A bit defensive isn't it? It's almost like Bruno doesn't exist? That team would seriously miss creativity and positive runs from the midfield.
I would go for something like this:
Greenwood (Rotate with Cavani/Ronaldo when needed. We only need one of them though.)
Rashford - Bruno - Sancho (Give some minutes to DVB and Amad when possible)
Fred - McTom (Matic/Pogba rotate with any of them. Pogba could also be rotated on the left wing)
Shaw - Maguire - Varane - AWB (rotate Dalot and Lindelof while giving some minutes to Telles now and then)
De Gea
Get a young quality midfielder and Haaland (if possible) into that team and we got ourselves a winner. Greenwood can play all 3 forward positions.
Yeah, let's hope he turns it around bro.
from all i read about ralfs style at previous clubs, his major goal is to force the ball to the opposition full backs and then get a press in those wide areas. that is the whole basis of his style, hence the two strikers cover the centre backs and we are shaped narrow to force the ball wide. the main criticism of this at his previous job was that the press was too passive in those wide areas, and often the opponent was able to create from those spaces. when it worked it worked well, when it didn't they gave up chances. i presume it worked much better than it has here so far, although i think the level is generally a bit lower there.
All very informative, thanks. I'd argue that the level is a bit lower but an added complexity is that our players will need time adapting and even then, some of them are not going to press and we all know that if even just 1 or 2 players don't do it effectively, the entire system becomes vulnerable.
There’s absolutely no chance that Ole would have been building to a team that doesn’t have Bruno and Sancho randomly the false 9.
yeah absolutely agree. when it comes off, and i believe it will in time, it will be worth it hopefully
I am absolutely sure that OLE had a long term plan to have a fluid front 3 of Marcus, Mason and Jadon - it was something I was excited to see too
Ronaldo's arrival obviously killed this idea though - one of the major negative ramifications
Ronaldo's arrival obviously killed this idea though - one of the major negative ramifications
As much as Ronaldo is a good captain material to have him in team, Ole overkilled the squad a bit with constant stop gap solutions to attacking line.
Ighalo - Cavani - Ronaldo. All in space of 3 years. I understand it was also due to Martial's decline but stil... a lot of strikers that can't fully flourish.
Hardly Ronaldo's fault current state of the team, but that's just my take on Ole's tenure.
Ighalo - Cavani - Ronaldo. All in space of 3 years. I understand it was also due to Martial's decline but stil... a lot of strikers that can't fully flourish.
Hardly Ronaldo's fault current state of the team, but that's just my take on Ole's tenure.
I don't want to see a 4-2-3-1 anymore. I want a 4-3-3 and I'd like to see Bruno played on the left. For me, he is not a midfielder. I also think he will score and assist more from the wing than he ever has in the #10.
--------------------------CDM-------------------------
---------VdB--------------------------#8--------------
Sancho-----------Greenwood-----------Bruno
Of course this will never happen. Bruno will never play on the wing and VdB will never get the chance he deserves
Outplayed
You seriously should check the peformance thread of Ronaldo, Cavani then Greenwood to see the difference. Especially after last match.
Oh the lot of them have been pretty bad I’m not excusing those I mentioned but when comparing Ronaldo to Rashford and Sancho it’s not a contest the latter have been awful
So has Ronaldo. If Sancho or Rashford are going to be criticised, then he's going to be lumped right in there with them, to be consistent.
That has been discussed to death in the Ronaldo performance thread and the conclusion so far is Ronaldo has been effectively the worst among our regular forwards in the last matches. Both based on the eye test and stats. If it was not for his name he'd be benched long ago and the caf would have burried him alive after those horrendous performances.
I don't want to start all over again here so we can continue this discussion there if you'd like to.
I was hoping for this after the signing of Sancho but the arrival of Ronaldo put a roadblock on this idea. I just want to see a young team play a match without Matic, Ronaldo, and Cavani.
Please no.
Rashford - in dreadful form
Sancho - looks like he can't beat anyone for pace
Greenwood - will never be a central striker
So erm, yeah could do
Sancho - looks like he can't beat anyone for pace
Greenwood - will never be a central striker
So erm, yeah could do
The comments on here about Rashford are nothing short of shocking. Whatever has happened to him the last 12 months I just don't know but I have seen him put consistent good performances in for us plenty of times before that.
He needs help not slandering. Be a good time to leave him out for a while but I wouldn't even dream of selling him. A fit and firing Rashford is a menace. We need to get that Rashford back.
He needs help not slandering. Be a good time to leave him out for a while but I wouldn't even dream of selling him. A fit and firing Rashford is a menace. We need to get that Rashford back.
Ronaldo at least has 14 goals (including a few last minute winners) I don’t think Sancho and Rashford have had 14 shots on goal, again all are underperforming but Rashford and Sancho are in a league of their own.