Why do we seem to get fleeced so often?

[Ali Dia]

You're looking at last year in isolation, but Ed's been in charge since 2013. The record is there for all to see - we've dithered in the market, been reactive and spent a shit-ton for mediocre results. Since you've mentioned Chelsea as an example of a club with an owner that funnels money into the club, we've actually spent the same as Chelsea and recouped a LOT less. And of course they won 2 PL titles while we've struggled to qualify for the CL.

https://www.transfermarkt.us/premie...&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

This is all expenditures and income for players from 12/13 until 20/21, all age groups, all nationalities, all positions etc.

City and Chelsea have shown that’s how you make a lot of money back, just keep the senior talent flowing through the club. Loan out about a teams worth of top young players who could also step into the first team each year if they are needed and sell if they drop off, bring back and renew if they step up. They are also constantly in the shop window if the manager doesn’t fancy them at the end of the day. You need a dof for this approach but if we applied our underage scouting style to players in the 17-22 year old bracket we could certainly pick up a more than a few bargains. We’d eventually make a few quid and save a few quid on fees. Basically something like a RBS scouting setup as our ‘second team’ Nobody massively expensive but good potential players who probably wouldn’t get in the team here straight away. Set up links with a club in the championship and one of the minor but decent European leagues and send a few on loan together to both clubs each year. It shouldn’t be that hard for a wealthy club with an established scouting network to set up. Also we should be able to bring in players from Africa and South America if we had a European link up.

 

[Snow]

That’s fair enough but Woodward’s been in football since 2005. I’m wondering why others are considered “football people” but not Woodward.

Woodward wasn't in football before taking over from Gill. He worked for Manchester United but he was signing sponsors. Wasn't involved with agents and players. He's been in the job for 7 years now though so should be as experienced as anybody.

 

[stevoc]

Woodward wasn't in football before taking over from Gill. He worked for Manchester United but he was signing sponsors. Wasn't involved with agents and players. He's been in the job for 7 years now though so should be as experienced as anybody.

Yeah well whatever metric we use its safe to say Woodward at this stage has a lot of experience in the football world. And obviously many years in business, which is what football clubs are also.

He may not be good at his job i have no idea, but this ''football person'' bullshit should be put to bed. It's a meaningless phrase.

 

[Class of 63]

Yeah well whatever metric we use its safe to say Woodward at this stage has a lot of experience in the football world. And obviously many years in business, which is what football clubs are also.

He may not be good at his job i have no idea, but this ''football person'' bullshit should be put to bed. It's a meaningless phrase.

Agree 100% on that, it does my head in, as does the Abramovich is popular nonsense, popular with people who want to have a nosey on his latest yacht maybe, but despised in football circles for being a bully who usually gets what he wants because of his wealth.

 

[baskinginthesun]

If you think that Roman and Levy aren't respected in football circles and negotiations I dunno what to tell you mate.

If you think Woodward IS, again I dunno what to say to you.

Abramovich's deals since arriving in the PL have been consistently ruthless - he's presided over Chelsea's most successful reign of all time.

Levy is a difficult, annoying, scrappy cnut that has kept a quality side on shoe-string wages compared to their worth and makes selling any player difficult and awkward if the buying team is PL based especially.

Woodward is a fecking muppet and a laughing stock in football circles. A literal comedy figure.

If you're incapable of grasping that, we'll just agree to disagree mate.

I mean, I have seen fans criticize him but, I don't think I have ever read other CEO's of other clubs call him a "muppet" or a "laughing stock."

Secondly, you pretty much called Levy an annoying person to deal with. How does that garner any respect in these football circles?

 

[Snow]

Yeah well whatever metric we use its safe to say Woodward at this stage has a lot of experience in the football world. And obviously many years in business, which is what football clubs are also.

He may not be good at his job i have no idea, but this ''football person'' bullshit should be put to bed. It's a meaningless phrase.

Yeah that phrase is dead at this point. It made sense to begin with but Woodward isn't a dumb dumb that can't learn on the job.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Yeah well whatever metric we use its safe to say Woodward at this stage has a lot of experience in the football world. And obviously many years in business, which is what football clubs are also.

He may not be good at his job i have no idea, but this ''football person'' bullshit should be put to bed. It's a meaningless phrase.

You keep banging on about the 'football person' tag, but no-one implied Roman or Levy are football men - it was a separate point.

To stay on topic, Woodward is fairly obviously, and rightfully, viewed as a muppet for the job he's done at Utd.

It's a reign so bad that it borders on parody.

Added to that are the utterly ludicrous contracts he hands out like candy, in comparison to someone like Levy (or indeed, pretty much every other PL club) make him look, again, quite rightly, like a complete numpty.

He's a mug in footballing decision terms, and comes across as such.

Any agent is obviously gonna approach a deal with Woodward differently to a deal with a successful, respected CEO in the football World.

 

[stevoc]

You keep banging on about the 'football person' tag, but no-one implied Roman or Levy are football men - it was a separate point.

Some implied it and some out right said it mate. I keep banging on about it as you say because people keep spouting the same football person shit on here and have done for years. Usually in reference to Woodward.

It's nonsense.

To stay on topic, Woodward is fairly obviously, and rightfully, viewed as a muppet for the job he's done at Utd.

It's a reign so bad that it borders on parody.

Added to that are the utterly ludicrous contracts he hands out like candy, in comparison to someone like Levy (or indeed, pretty much every other PL club) make him look, again, quite rightly, like a complete numpty.

He's a mug in footballing decision terms, and comes across as such.

Any agent is obviously gonna approach a deal with Woodward differently to a deal with a successful, respected CEO in the football World.

Viewed as a muppet by whom?

Just United fans or are we back to the football circles?

For the record i don't particularly like Woodward or think/know if he's done a good job since taking over United.

 

[clarkydaz]

Pretty sure the story was Roman watched his first game of football in 2003. United vs Real and it was what sparked his interest in owning a football club.

He bought a football club to be a successful as possible, poured a ton of his own money in and put correct people in place at his club. All the complete opposite of what we have

 

[sammsky1]

Part of the problem is whoever we choose to sign, the selling club will assume they are top quality, even if they didn’t previously consider that themselves. Fred, Fernandes and AWB are example of this.

 

[stevoc]

He bought a football club to be a successful as possible, poured a ton of his own money in and put correct people in place at his club. All the complete opposite of what we have

Cool.

And he did it completely for the love of the game.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Doherty is 28 and scored 4g 3a last season. This is his last big long term contract. But he is the player he is, there is not significant development left there. £15m is a good deal but he's not worth £50m even before covid. Ben Chillwell being sold at £50m is very close to matching the price of AWB, at a similar age, this price is extremely comparable.

I think you're looking at a bit of confirmation bias here.

MUFC DOES pay somewhat a premium on transfers, but what have we bought that was out of price?

AWB? Young, proven talent. ~£50m, Sold to direct competitor under long term contract at the peak of footballs financial boom

I'm sorry but how was AWB proven in anyway? He had 1 season in the PL where he spent it in a club battling for its life. He had no European experience, no international experience. He was very far from proven. And so far its looking an incredibly poor deal for us.

 

[Tom Cato]

I'm sorry but how was AWB proven in anyway? He had 1 season in the PL where he spent it in a club battling for its life. He had no European experience, no international experience. He was very far from proven. And so far its looking an incredibly poor deal for us.

AWB is the best defensive rightback in the Premier League, you appear to forgot he made Sterling look absolutely silly. Repeatedly.

He had 1 season in the PL in a club battling for its life and got passed 3 or 4 times the entire season. This on a team that spent more time defending than attacking. And he did very, very well. So yeah, proven. What more do you need, Champions League semi final? If you are a regular starter in the Premier League it's safe to say that you're a very good player. If you are a regular starter when you are 21 years old, you are a bonafide talent. If you are a regular starter at 21 years old on a (relative to the rest of the league) mediocre/poor team and you hardly get beaten, you are a very promising talent.

18/19 Manchester United had Ashley Young on the right back. If you need a history course: He was bad and the right back was an actual problem for us.
19/20 Manchester United had Aaron Wan-Bissaka on the right back. Hardly ever gets beaten. Right back is not a problem for us.

He's received some criticism for a few bad games at the tail and of the season, all very warranted. But do me a favor and stop pretending like he wasnt one of the teams best players all season up until Bruno came and stole the spotlight.

And if you're going to say "Look at Trent Alexander Aarnold". Well sure. Let's look at 1 guy in 1 team in all of football and be negative about our own talent.

He's about to turn 23. Like Marcus Rashford, Anthony Martial, Mason Greenwod, etcetera, he is a developing talent. Talent. NOT the done deal.

He had 4 assits this PL season. For a player who's had 1 season to work on his offensive game, how exactly does that accumulate to "incredibly poor deal".

It's SO unfair to look at a very bad game he had against Sevilla (Note for history: a game we otherwise completely dominated, game was lost to poor mistakes and legendary waste at the goal), and somehow attribute that to the effort over the season.

You know what, without AWB on the right back, we are not in the Champions League. Our goal tally would be far worse with Ashley Young. It's as simple as that. AWB has helped and done his share, tremendously. The next 2 seasons are going to define who he is when he hits his prime years. Exactly in tune with the project we are on.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

AWB is the best defensive rightback in the Premier League, you appear to forgot he made Sterling look absolutely silly. Repeatedly.

He had 1 season in the PL in a club battling for its life and got passed 3 or 4 times the entire season. This on a team that spent more time defending than attacking. And he did very, very well. So yeah, proven. What more do you need, Champions League semi final? If you are a regular starter in the Premier League it's safe to say that you're a very good player. If you are a regular starter when you are 21 years old, you are a bonafide talent. If you are a regular starter at 21 years old on a (relative to the rest of the league) mediocre/poor team and you hardly get beaten, you are a very promising talent.

18/19 Manchester United had Ashley Young on the right back. If you need a history course: He was bad and the right back was an actual problem for us.
19/20 Manchester United had Aaron Wan-Bissaka on the right back. Hardly ever gets beaten. Right back is not a problem for us.

He's received some criticism for a few bad games at the tail and of the season, all very warranted. But do me a favor and stop pretending like he wasnt one of the teams best players all season up until Bruno came and stole the spotlight.

And if you're going to say "Look at Trent Alexander Aarnold". Well sure. Let's look at 1 guy in 1 team in all of football and be negative about our own talent.

He's about to turn 23. Like Marcus Rashford, Anthony Martial, Mason Greenwod, etcetera, he is a developing talent. Talent. NOT the done deal.

He had 4 assits this PL season. For a player who's had 1 season to work on his offensive game, how exactly does that accumulate to "incredibly poor deal".

It's SO unfair to look at a very bad game he had against Sevilla (Note for history: a game we otherwise completely dominated, game was lost to poor mistakes and legendary waste at the goal), and somehow attribute that to the effort over the season.

You know what, without AWB on the right back, we are not in the Champions League. Our goal tally would be far worse with Ashley Young. It's as simple as that. AWB has helped and done his share, tremendously. The next 2 seasons are going to define who he is when he hits his prime years. Exactly in tune with the project we are on.

He's that amazing he's not even making the England squad though.

He's a very accomplished tackler there's no denying it but there's not a lot else to his game. I actually think he's quite ordinary with his positioning too. His spider tackles get him out of trouble quite a lot because he's read the play wrong.

And he's woeful on the ball. Our attacks just die with him way too much.

£50m was a mugging.

 

[Suedesi]

He's that amazing he's not even making the England squad though.

He's a very accomplished tackler there's no denying it but there's not a lot else to his game. I actually think he's quite ordinary with his positioning too. His spider tackles get him out of trouble quite a lot because he's read the play wrong.

And he's woeful on the ball. Our attacks just die with him way too much.

£50m was a mugging.

Yeah, I honestly don't get this AWB hype. He's a good player if all you ask him to do is to defend like a team like CP would. That's not the remit at Man Utd, a fullback has to defend AND attack. Think Patrice Evra. Gary Neville. Dennis Irwin. AWB falls woefully short.

He might be worth 50m to CP, but not to Man Utd because the role at United is completely different. He's got to support the RW, he's got to provide an overlap and show for the ball, he's got to provide a quality cross, he's got to dribble an opponent and I'm not sure he's ever going to develop that aspect of the game because he's 23 not 13. His basic ball control is awful.

For £20m we could have gotten someone like Ricardo Pereira, but no - the club had a software program analyzing some 354 fullbacks and some mug said let's buy AWB for £50m.

 

[Tom Cato]

He's that amazing he's not even making the England squad though.

He's a very accomplished tackler there's no denying it but there's not a lot else to his game. I actually think he's quite ordinary with his positioning too. His spider tackles get him out of trouble quite a lot because he's read the play wrong.

And he's woeful on the ball. Our attacks just die with him way too much.

£50m was a mugging.

He's 22. He's a talent in development.

AWB has had a noteable improvement in his offensive game the second half to near the end of the season.

Look, I'm not denying that there are improvements to be made, it kinda comes with the territory when you're a defense rightback that's in the process of being reshaped into a offensive rightback.

Writing him off as a problem and a terrible signing after one good season at the club is a bit premature, and in my opinions, unfair.

 

[Valuedrug]

It's a combination of things of course, but I want to highlight a few.

1. Strategic reputation is probably the main culprit. For years we've been paying over the top, and so whenever we actively pursue a player, the club who owns him will be expecting a pay day. If you know that the buyer almost always returns after threatening to walk away, because he has done it for 6 years running, you have no reason to sell at anything but your first offer. To buck this trend the selling club has to be desperate, and they rarely are, since United are usually reactive in the market pursuing high value targets on expensive contracts in financially secure clubs.

2. United is not a top draw for the best players anymore. Given that we're not winning major trophies, and a host of obviously talented players have now stagnated or even regressed at the club in recent years, players won't be pushing to go to United in the same way they would for Real Madrid, Bayern or another big club with recent domestic and international succes. If its more a case of a player being "okay" with going to United due to expected wages, the opportunity to launch his own brand of oven mitts and so on, the selling club won't risk damaging their own players motivation and future loyalty by risking the transfer playing hard ball with us.

3. United does not cultivate relations with potential future players in a credible way. Take the Haaland situation as an example. By all accounts Dortmund basically had a fantastic pitch for the kid. They we're able to show him very clearly, how he would fit in at their club, and how they could help unleash his potential as a player while pointing to other talented youngsters who came very far in their setup. Also they monitored him for years, and quite likely had very football and people savvy employees regularly letting him know that they we're following his progress with great interest. I can't really know how this goes down from the United side, but I suspect we're quite late to the party in general. I'm sure United still have a few diehard souls on the payroll who run around trying to cultivate relations, but if they don't represent a real interest from the club, it will tell over time.

Mix all of this together and you have a fairly easy mark in a market as competitive as football transfers. Over time all of this could be addressed, but it would require patience, long term strategic thinking and much stronger relations with other clubs than United appear to have now.

 

[Red00012]

Our scouts could do with been made redundant and getting some kid to scout Football Manager would bring more success.

They wouldn’t have picked out a 16 year old Lionel Messi in a 5 v 5. Our own players told Fergie to sign CR FFS

 

[Bondi77]

I just checked on transfermarket and Benoit is rated at 20mil Euros but because it is us interested Monaco will think it is Christmas and double his value and it is always the same for us and that is why it takes so long to get things over the line.
I am still shaking my head how Chilwell goes for half the price we paid for Maguire.

 

[Tom Cato]

Yeah, I honestly don't get this AWB hype. He's a good player if all you ask him to do is to defend like a team like CP would. That's not the remit at Man Utd, a fullback has to defend AND attack. Think Patrice Evra. Gary Neville. Dennis Irwin. AWB falls woefully short.

He might be worth 50m to CP, but not to Man Utd because the role at United is completely different. He's got to support the RW, he's got to provide an overlap and show for the ball, he's got to provide a quality cross, he's got to dribble an opponent and I'm not sure he's ever going to develop that aspect of the game because he's 23 not 13. His basic ball control is awful.

For £20m we could have gotten someone like Ricardo Pereira, but no - the club had a software program analyzing some 354 fullbacks and some mug said let's buy AWB for £50m.

Ricardo Pereira is a worse rightback with less offensive involvement than AWB, soooo.... He can stay where is is at Leicester. He had 3 goals last season and 2 assists. This is a player that might score a couple lucky goals over 20 games on average and offer even fewer assists. AWB doesn't score yet, but he brings substantially more to the table right now. Ricardo had one nice goal against Newcastle, whereas the other two were "blank box" shots that players are expected to score on. In Ricardos defense, AWB has missed more than 1 of those this season.

Aaron Wan-Bissaka has completed 103 crosses this season. Which is by far more than anyone else at Manchester United. League wide for a defender that's only ranked 12th, but its more a question of utilization than anything. Since he's so far above anyone else at the club bar Dan James who is closests, the evidence is fairly straightforward: We don't rely on crosses too much on attack, we prefer to break through the box by short passes, straight up counter attacks, or dribbles. Should there be more? Probably, but it's the sum of how we play. Remember that 2020 saw some good good football, so it's a bit unfair if we're going down the route of "they're not doing enough" when we were clearly doing very, very well.

AWB ranks 8th among defenders in offensive touches, so by all accounts he is involved in the buildup play and overlap play on the right side, and ranks as #9 in touches overall among all Premier Leauge players. This is a player that is extremely involved in the play.

Fact of the matter is that AWB is our most offensively involved fullback and it's not even close between him and Luke Shaw and Brandon Williams going by involvement per game to account for injury breaks and in Brandon's case, not being on the team to start the season.

But just to add to my point about a developing player as players who develop often do: They improve. He had a noteable improvement hte second half of the season along with the rest of the team:

Before 2020:

Crosses per 90 mins: 2.5
Chances created per 90 mins: 0.5
Big chances created per 90 mins: 0.0
Dribbles attempted per 90 mins: 2.4
Dribbles completed per 90 mins: 1.5

After 2020:

Crosses per 90 mins: 3.5
Chances created per 90 mins: 1.2
Big chances created per 90 mins: 0.3
Dribbles attempted per 90 mins: 3.3
Dribbles completed per 90 mins: 2.0

So what we have is a player who has made noteable improvements to his offensive game. At the age of 22 he's ripe for increased production. (AWB is 23 in November 2020). Football players aren't done maturing at this age as you seem to think, there is a lot more to get out of these players. Footballer's dont hit maturity before they are 25/26 and lasts through their physical peak from 25-29. It's at this stage where development generally is what it is, whereas the period before absolutely has room for growth. And to be fair some players to take big leaps even later. But as a general ruile of thumb, 22/23 year olds are developing players.

AWB's offensive improvement has not come at expense of his defensive contribution, he still ranked 1st in the club on both tackles and interceptions per 90.

So what needs to improve?

Well:

Goals per 90
Assists per 90
Big Chances Created per 90
and Cross %

All these needs to come up for the 20/21 campaign. Generally most of these are closely tied with the overall performance of the team as a whole, so with a fully fit and rested squad, I absolutely expect the following from Wan-Bissaka this season:

3-5 League goals
4-7 Assists
Crosses: 200+
Cross Accuracy 20%+

That would be a very, very good offensive season for AWB, and I'm rooting for him,.

 

[yumtum]

A combination of many things, lack of diversity in our network (well, we have loads of scouts, but only want to go for established players - this comes at a premium) and of course the infamous Woodward line of "we can do things in the market other clubs cant do" - which was such an atrocious statement that it still sticks with everyone within football, he's also had the Disney land comment which no doubt made it's way through management circles.

Also, just a few months ago we had Ole and Woody say that we were in a position to take advantage of the covid situation - we need to keep our mouths shut with regards to our intentions and how much we have to spend, whilst spending our available money wisely.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

He may not be good at his job i have no idea, but this ''football person'' bullshit should be put to bed. It's a meaningless phrase.

It's meaningless as a stick to beat Woodward with, I'd agree with that (there are plenty of other sticks to choose from).

However, the criticism over the years has amounted to much more than Woodward himself not being a "football man". What many United fans have been saying is that there are no other "football men" in high, executive positions at the club: it's the manager (whoever he happens to be at any given point) - and Woodward. This "model" worked under Fergie and Gill because...Fergie.

But the evidence (results versus money spent) in the post-Fergie era pretty much conclusively suggests that it doesn't work too well under anyone else.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

It's meaningless as a stick to beat Woodward with, I'd agree with that (there are plenty of other sticks to choose from).

However, the criticism over the years has amounted to much more than Woodward himself not being a "football man". What many United fans have been saying is that there are no other "football men" in high, executive positions at the club: it's the manager (whoever he happens to be at any given point) - and Woodward. This "model" worked under Fergie and Gill because...Fergie.

But the evidence (results versus money spent) in the post-Fergie era pretty much conclusively suggests that it doesn't work too well under anyone else.

We should recruit someone like VDS from Ajax and give a football man control over a budget and kitty for transfers and wages. He already showed he knows what he's doing a Ajax. I'm not saying sack Woody. But take away control of all football matters from him.

 

[hubbuh]

We should recruit someone like VDS from Ajax and give a football man control over a budget and kitty for transfers and wages. He already showed he knows what he's doing a Ajax. I'm not saying sack Woody. But take away control of all football matters from him.

He’s obviously involved in the recruitment process and, despite our relative abject failure in nearly every single department bar commercial pursuits, nothing has changed. I’m not saying he’s a power hungry, egotistical control freak but he’s definitely a bit of a plonker.

 

[DeGea]

We need to improve scouting. Barcelona for example always pick up players from South America who no one have heard of, and after a couple of seasons they become good and are worth a lot of money (okay, Spanish language and climate is a factor of course).
The only way we won't get fleeced is if we go for the players who are not yet big stars, but about to, potentially. Essentially the middle tier. People like Gabriel Jesus, Sane, Bernardo Silva, Laporte, are examples of good scouting by City. They are not unheard of players when they signed, but they are not Jadon Sancho i.e. the obvious star everyone is talking about. You then improve them through training and that's how you get good recruitment.
Don't buy the obvious stars all the time, you will get fleeced if you are United.

 

[Mr PG]

Lack of advance planning. Once crystal palace knew we didn't have fall-back option for AWB they stuck to their guns. Leicester too knew it was Maguire or bust for us...especially with transfer window clock running down. City in contrast have always known for instance that Dortmund would price Sancho highly they scouted Ferran Torres who is much better value. Not same level but close but 1/4 of the price.

 

[Mr PG]

As the German clubs and liverpool have proven it's not about individuals but how you mould the team. Our whole coaching staff is quite amateurish....all of it. None have ever coached a serious team before except Mike Phelan but even then Fergie never really used tactics much.

 

[Bilbo]

Ricardo Pereira is a worse rightback with less offensive involvement than AWB, soooo.... He can stay where is is at Leicester. He had 3 goals last season and 2 assists. This is a player that might score a couple lucky goals over 20 games on average and offer even fewer assists. AWB doesn't score yet, but he brings substantially more to the table right now. Ricardo had one nice goal against Newcastle, whereas the other two were "blank box" shots that players are expected to score on. In Ricardos defense, AWB has missed more than 1 of those this season.

Aaron Wan-Bissaka has completed 103 crosses this season. Which is by far more than anyone else at Manchester United. League wide for a defender that's only ranked 12th, but its more a question of utilization than anything. Since he's so far above anyone else at the club bar Dan James who is closests, the evidence is fairly straightforward: We don't rely on crosses too much on attack, we prefer to break through the box by short passes, straight up counter attacks, or dribbles. Should there be more? Probably, but it's the sum of how we play. Remember that 2020 saw some good good football, so it's a bit unfair if we're going down the route of "they're not doing enough" when we were clearly doing very, very well.

AWB ranks 8th among defenders in offensive touches, so by all accounts he is involved in the buildup play and overlap play on the right side, and ranks as #9 in touches overall among all Premier Leauge players. This is a player that is extremely involved in the play.

Fact of the matter is that AWB is our most offensively involved fullback and it's not even close between him and Luke Shaw and Brandon Williams going by involvement per game to account for injury breaks and in Brandon's case, not being on the team to start the season.

But just to add to my point about a developing player as players who develop often do: They improve. He had a noteable improvement hte second half of the season along with the rest of the team:

Before 2020:

Crosses per 90 mins: 2.5
Chances created per 90 mins: 0.5
Big chances created per 90 mins: 0.0
Dribbles attempted per 90 mins: 2.4
Dribbles completed per 90 mins: 1.5

After 2020:

Crosses per 90 mins: 3.5
Chances created per 90 mins: 1.2
Big chances created per 90 mins: 0.3
Dribbles attempted per 90 mins: 3.3
Dribbles completed per 90 mins: 2.0

So what we have is a player who has made noteable improvements to his offensive game. At the age of 22 he's ripe for increased production. (AWB is 23 in November 2020). Football players aren't done maturing at this age as you seem to think, there is a lot more to get out of these players. Footballer's dont hit maturity before they are 25/26 and lasts through their physical peak from 25-29. It's at this stage where development generally is what it is, whereas the period before absolutely has room for growth. And to be fair some players to take big leaps even later. But as a general ruile of thumb, 22/23 year olds are developing players.

AWB's offensive improvement has not come at expense of his defensive contribution, he still ranked 1st in the club on both tackles and interceptions per 90.

So what needs to improve?

Well:

Goals per 90
Assists per 90
Big Chances Created per 90
and Cross %

All these needs to come up for the 20/21 campaign. Generally most of these are closely tied with the overall performance of the team as a whole, so with a fully fit and rested squad, I absolutely expect the following from Wan-Bissaka this season:

3-5 League goals
4-7 Assists
Crosses: 200+
Cross Accuracy 20%+

That would be a very, very good offensive season for AWB, and I'm rooting for him,.

Good post Tom. Very good.

Its actually a little depressing reading the stick thrown towards AWB on here. It should be clear to anyone that he is far from the finished article, but already showing signs of progress.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

As the German clubs and liverpool have proven it's not about individuals but how you mould the team. Our whole coaching staff is quite amateurish....all of it. None have ever coached a serious team before except Mike Phelan but even then Fergie never really used tactics much.

I don't believe you. Successful German clubs and liverpool all recruited the right players for their teams. Despite disagreeing with your justification, I have no problem with your desire to get a new coach. But who will pick that coach? Woody.

 

[Suedesi]

Ricardo Pereira is a worse rightback with less offensive involvement than AWB, soooo.... He can stay where is is at Leicester. He had 3 goals last season and 2 assists. This is a player that might score a couple lucky goals over 20 games on average and offer even fewer assists. AWB doesn't score yet, but he brings substantially more to the table right now. Ricardo had one nice goal against Newcastle, whereas the other two were "blank box" shots that players are expected to score on. In Ricardos defense, AWB has missed more than 1 of those this season.

Ricardo Pereira hasn't played since March and still racked up more goals and assists than AWB during the season that just passed. If you want to look at 2 seasons it's 5 goals 9 assists vs 0 goals 7 assists. So I don't know how you can claim that AWB bring substantially more to the table right now. I'm not discounting that AWB might improve in a few seasons and become a beast, but Man Utd could have spent half the money they spent on AWB two years ago and be doing just as well if not better, which was the point of this thread in the first place (overpaying for players).

 

[Litch]

People are so quick to judge, the value of a signing is when their career is over not at the start of it.

 

[Will Singh]

The simple answer is we are sh*t in the transfer market, we will give players away for practically free thinking we have a good relationship with said team then when we want to buy a player from said team they pull our pants down....

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

A big problem is that we offer mediocre players salaries that no other club are willing to offer which makes it impossible to sell Rojo, Jones and so on.

 

[stevoc]

It's meaningless as a stick to beat Woodward with, I'd agree with that (there are plenty of other sticks to choose from).

However, the criticism over the years has amounted to much more than Woodward himself not being a "football man". What many United fans have been saying is that there are no other "football men" in high, executive positions at the club: it's the manager (whoever he happens to be at any given point) - and Woodward. This "model" worked under Fergie and Gill because...Fergie.

But the evidence (results versus money spent) in the post-Fergie era pretty much conclusively suggests that it doesn't work too well under anyone else.

Yeah i'd agree with that mate, Gill is considered a very good football Chairman/Ceo etc. but as you say he had the benefit of only working above Ferguson. He never had to fire/hire managers or work with less talented managers.

A lot of the criticism of Woodward is very justified, he (along with others) have made a mess of things post Fergie. I'm not particularly trying to defend Woodward i just hate that phrase with a passion.

 

[M Bison]

Assuming the VdB deal is done, represents great value. Timely, given the narrative in this thread!!

 

[mazhar13]

Assuming the VdB deal is done, represents great value. Timely, given the narrative in this thread!!

That depends on who you ask. Some see him as a glorified bench-warmer, so they aren't happy with the price as a result.

 

[M Bison]

That depends on who you ask. Some see him as a glorified bench-warmer, so they aren't happy with the price as a result.

Thankfully our club isn’t run by caf-experts!

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

That depends on who you ask. Some see him as a glorified bench-warmer, so they aren't happy with the price as a result.

There’s not a player in the world that this forum would have a consensus on. Unfortunately, being an Internet forum, if a player is not quite perfect he’s awful, and if he’s pretty good he’s going to be sensational. Most posts are extreme in that sense.

 

[Mercurial]

That depends on who you ask. Some see him as a glorified bench-warmer, so they aren't happy with the price as a result.

Ole rate him a great lot so all good in that department.

 

[mazhar13]

There’s not a player in the world that this forum would have a consensus on. Unfortunately, being an Internet forum, if a player is not quite perfect he’s awful, and if he’s pretty good he’s going to be sensational. Most posts are extreme in that sense.

Yeah, that's the Internet, I guess. Still, I'm happy with this.

Ole rate him a great lot so all good in that department.

And that's what matters in the end. He's building the team, not us nor anyone else.