Utd had the most successful period in their history under the Glazers (2006-2011).when the Glazers bought us
Fergie managed to paper over the cracks for a while
but selling Ronaldo and replacing him with Valencia says it all
not a top club mentality
Those games you a refereeing to were dead games. Utd were already Champions.There were problems setting in at the end of Fergie's reign. I always remember that last home game under him where Rio scored the winner near the end, we were absolutely awful, then shipped 5 in the next game. Then it has just been one bad decision after another. Getting caught off guard with Fergie going before he planned didn't help, and Gill leaving at the same time. Then its a combination of Woodward and nearsightedness while our rivals moved on.
I'm aware of that, it doesn't mean the performances weren't terrible. Van Persie's form that season masked a lot of problems.Those games you a refereeing to were dead games. Utd were already Champions.
Utd had the most successful period in their history under the Glazers (2006-2011).
So it’s not as simple as saying it started then.
It’s been a mixture of things.
But the one that stands out most is hiring David Moyes. He just didn’t have the character to carry us forward. I’m 100% sure, Bale, Thiago, Kroos or Fabregas would have signed for Utd had we had a world class manager rather than Moyes.
I haven't read the whole thread, but I think if you answer the actual question of the thread, the answer is when SAF and Gill left.
Now I'm not blaming Fergie at all. He's the manager, not the owner or CEO.
It's the owner and CEO who are responsible for short / medium and long term planning. When Fergie left, we lost an aura. When Gill left at the same time, that's when the decline began.
Our decline began when LvG walked through the door. It wasn’t Fergie and it wasn’t even Moyes. As bad as Moyes was, the club got rid of him fast.
This viewpoint is as problematic as the one you're criticizing.Incredible thread. Another thread to blame Fergie for the current mess. Usual suspects appearing too.
Within two seasons of Fergie leaving, United spent almost 300 million under van Gaal and had completely gutted the 2013 title winning squad. I have not seen one person mention LVG as starting our decline. It is the freedom in the transfer market he was given and overspending that caused the start of us being ripped off in the transfer market and buying marquee players that turned out to be failures. It began the era of “deadwood” in our squad.
If you spend large amounts of money wisely in football and make good appointments you will have success, almost immediately . Only United fans seem to think this doesn’t happen. Even though city and Chelsea did it.
Only Manchester United fans seem to think you need prolonged rebuilds and that things that happened in 2009 would still effect the squad in 2022 despite a billion pounds being spent on the club during that period.
Our decline began when LvG walked through the door. It wasn’t Fergie and it wasn’t even Moyes. As bad as Moyes was, the club got rid of him fast. Since LVG walked through the door what has followed is a procession of allowing managers too much freedom in the transfer market, taking too long to get rid of managers and players not good enough and giving out undeserving contracts. As well as inflating our very own transfer market. These and and only these are responsible for our decline. Ed Woodward oversaw this era so I think he’s somebody right at the top of the list to blame.
When Moyes culled the entire title winning staff for Jimmy Lumsden.
Players immediately downed tools and that mentality has stuck ever since.
2009/10. We lost the best player in the world and replaced him with Valencia. We were still able to win a couple titles, but the decline of the squad started then. We were absolutely unreal from 06/09. The squad was also top tier. From 09/10 until SAF left, performances were nowhere near the quality of 06/09. As soon as SAF left, the poor recruitment over the last couple years really started to show its head.
This viewpoint is as problematic as the one you're criticizing.
LVG didn't completely gut a title winning squad. It was an aging squad on it's last legs.
Yes we wasted 300 million. The club's structure was very much there to accommodate a "dictator" if you will. LVG had already proven elsewhere he wasn't good in that role. He usually imploded 2-3 years in and he was a shit DoF in the past. Most of the blame goes towards those that appointed him and didn't change the structure of the club to better support him.
He's a decent coach that shouldn't have in charge of transfers and he couldn't get a lot of targets because we finished 7th the season prior and Woody being shit at his job.
The club clearly hasn't learned anything. We hired Lokomotiv Moscow's DoF as our manager, after sacking a former Molde manager.
Rangnick is the right guy in the wrong job, just like how LVG was hired to do stuff he wasn't good at.
The Glazers 100%
The frustrating thing is now, we’re arguably 5 players and a top coach away from functioning well and challenging. But they will get 3 and not move enough deadwood on.
We should be shouting from the rooftops about them every chance we get.
I just hope Rangnick can have a big positive influence in the consultant role.
when the Glazers bought us
agree with everything you said. I don't blame SAF in any way at all and all down to the board and owners, simple as.Gill was the one who, a few seasons before Fergie retired, stated that a plan for the succession was in the works and that United would not make the same errors they did in 1970. Then they made the same errors they did in 1970, but Gill had jumped ship and Woodward was the captain. We failed to build from a position of strength. Not Fergie's fault. He'd built three great teams and, like Matt Busby before him, didn't have it in him to build another.
The blaming of LVG is wrong and so is the idea that he had much say in the transfer market. I think he even went on record saying "i got my 7th choice of players" in terms of transfer targets. Do you really think a man who coached the Ajax team in the nineties with Edgar Davids and who voted Roy Keane for the Balon d'or looked at Schneidelin and thought "wow, now that's a midfield player I wanna coach". Somehow I don't think so.Incredible thread. Another thread to blame Fergie for the current mess. Usual suspects appearing too.
Within two seasons of Fergie leaving, United spent almost 300 million under van Gaal and had completely gutted the 2013 title winning squad. I have not seen one person mention LVG as starting our decline. It is the freedom in the transfer market he was given and overspending that caused the start of us being ripped off in the transfer market and buying marquee players that turned out to be failures. It began the era of “deadwood” in our squad.
If you spend large amounts of money wisely in football and make good appointments you will have success, almost immediately . Only United fans seem to think this doesn’t happen. Even though city and Chelsea did it.
Only Manchester United fans seem to think you need prolonged rebuilds and that things that happened in 2009 would still effect the squad in 2022 despite a billion pounds being spent on the club during that period.
Our decline began when LvG walked through the door. It wasn’t Fergie and it wasn’t even Moyes. As bad as Moyes was, the club got rid of him fast. Since LVG walked through the door what has followed is a procession of allowing managers too much freedom in the transfer market, taking too long to get rid of managers and players not good enough and giving out undeserving contracts. As well as inflating our very own transfer market. These and and only these are responsible for our decline. Ed Woodward oversaw this era so I think he’s somebody right at the top of the list to blame.
Utd had the most successful period in their history under the Glazers (2006-2011).
So it’s not as simple as saying it started then.
I think that was more SAF having his hands tied. Giving Rooney an extension and pay rise worked out cheaper than signing Aguero or whoever, with the transfer fee, agent fee, signing on fee and wages. At that time United were running on extremely fine margins financially due to the debt the Glazers put on the club.I think it was back during the SAF times, when Rooney was able to get his own way.
agree with everything you said. I don't blame SAF in any way at all and all down to the board and owners, simple as.
But it won't improve until we get better owners in my opinion either.
Yes thats all fine, but we lowered our standards with how we treat players, and what we expect from them. We became way over time lazier.I think that was more SAF having his hands tied. Giving Rooney an extension and pay rise worked out cheaper than signing Aguero or whoever, with the transfer fee, agent fee, signing on fee and wages. At that time United were running on extremely fine margins financially due to the debt the Glazers put on the club.
It’s only post 2013 that sponsorships, tv rights , and general money increased to a level where the club’s revenue was sufficiently above debt repayments and wages.
Moyes stripping out such incredibly successful staff also didn't help. Gutted the heart of United, then LVG soured the atmosphere completely by all accounts and cemented our rot.If you ask me it started with SAF becoming sentimental. As Keane puts it
"People said [Ferguson] always had the best interests of Manchester United at heart. Darren Ferguson [his son] won a medal. He was very lucky.
“[Alex Ferguson’s] brother was the chief scout for Manchester United for a long time. I’m surprised his wife wasn’t involved in the staff somewhere.”
Then this sentimentality was extended to his former players with guys like Scholes and Giggs remaining with United till their nearly 40s. Sir Alex was against Gaz retiring and Gaz had to force the hand by calling the retirement himself when it was evident that he was finished. Sir Alex also chose his successor, the incompetent David Moyes.
To achieve that Sir Alex needed absolute power which explains why United's football structure was that of a club stuck in the 90s. That left a power vacuum when Sir Alex left with no football person sitting at board level. The Glazers were devastating to this club, they had no idea of football, they had no intention to learn and quite frankly they only cared about money. They saddled us with a mountain of debt and the incompetence of David Woodward who was given far too power on football matters.
Today's United is the result of this mess. We have the remnants of the United way (Fletcher and Phelan), Moyes way (Murtough), LVG way (Bout), Ole's way (Cleggy, Pert, Ramsay etc) and Woodward's way (Arnold, Judge etc). Different styles, different philosophies but all specialised in one thing ie failing.
I think we're beyond repair at this point. We've got a heavily unbalanced and huge side, with players being on ridiculous salaries who want out while still earning the dosh. The Glazers simply lack the financial clout to commit itself to the very painful restructuring United need and quite frankly there isn't the talent needed to make sure that it would succeed this time round. We need new owners with lot of ££££ and a true passion for football.
Agreed. The damage he did in 10 months cannot be underestimated.
when saf left
