Arsenal doesn't have the revenue of Man Utd. Not even close.We are the new Arsenal (minus the cup performances maybe). We will be there and there abouts of top 4.
When Do We Become Irrelevant?
- Thread starter kidbob
- Start date
The answer is never. Relegation didn't make us irrelevant. We are shit, yes, but very relevant.
I’m afraid we already are when it comes to winning the title or CL again. 9 and 14 years almost and I can honestly, hand on my heart say, we could go a hell of lot longer before we win either again unless the owners and structure of the club change dramatically.
When we sign Ten Hag and he finishes 4th then 5th.
When do we become irrelevant?
I'd say being put on before the darts at 5.30pm on a bank holiday by Sky says it all
I'd say being put on before the darts at 5.30pm on a bank holiday by Sky says it all
Liverpool went almost 30 years without a league title and never had as much money as we have now. They never became "irrelevant". It's not something that can happen without a Leeds/Portsmouth style relegation or multiple generations of failure.
When it comes to winning the title, yes. However, they were still very relevant in the CL in the 00s, while also winning several cups, domestic and continental. The UEFA Cup was far more respected back then than the Europa League is now.
So they were not A tier for years, but were just below and you could always expect them to give anyone a tough game domestically and to go far in Europe.
This is not the case with United. The last time they went further than the last 8 of the CL was in 2011.
A truly sad state of affairs.
We are already sorta irrelevant. For example, my mates stopped teasing me when United loses. I used to get 10 msgs every time united lost, now they don't talk about it. It's kinda sad, frankly. Many young kids (12-18) don't think we are a great club.
A 17 year old asked me why so many united kits around compared to city because they win more. I guess that summed it up. 10 years without a trophy you lose whole generation of young fans.
Yeah, this new generation of fans won't be supporting United. They will mostly be City, Liverpool, and Chelsea fans. Nobody under the age of around 12/13 can remember/were born yet to see United win a title.
United are still extremely relevant now. Anything United based gets way more clicks than City or Liverpool. I don't know if we could ever truly be irrelevant. There is a large fanbase that won't quit on the team. Even if it continues to fail. They will still be interested in United news.
This will never be too late
That's the nature of knockout competitions, it makes you able to fluke things here and there. For example we were trash in 1980s but had decent success in knockout competitions and probably should have even won an European trophy or two. Also Liverpool only got decent in Europe about 12 years after their decline so who knows maybe we're on a similar course.
We already are. We're the new Spurs.
The only relevant thing about us the past years has been the money we give players and bring in from sponsorships. Kids growing up nowadays find Utd to be very irrelevant.
We’re irrelevant now, certainly as a club that challenges for major trophies. No one considers us a threat when it comes to winning the PL or CL. The only clubs we’re still relevant to are the ones we’re competing with for top 4 and the ones in the Europa League.
Truly. I've been thinking for ages that we're not as similar to Liverpool's dark years as many United fans want to believe. We're much worse and get humiliated far more often by rivals home and away. While spending a much more vast amount of money too.
We may have passed the baton back to Spurs and could be set for midtable again for a few years while we "rebuild". Getting bounced out the cup by Slippy G should be another sign we're already irrelevant.
I think spending what we have since 2013 shows we are irrelevant at the top end, we haven't come close to winning a major trophy so in that sense we are. We've defied the law of averages in how poor we've been run from the top, it's an expertise in failure of running a football club and spending a billion. I doubt many boards can spend this much and get it so wrong without being successful even briefly.
I think spending what we have since 2013 shows we are irrelevant at the top end, we haven't come close to winning a major trophy so in that sense we are. We've defied the law of averages in how poor we've been run from the top, it's an expertise in failure of running a football club and spending a billion. I doubt many boards can spend this much and get it so wrong without being successful even briefly.
Until we get humble.
Had we been humble after SAF left, we would have consulted proper footballing people, put a structure in-place and drawn up a 5YR plan
Instead we went about trying to throw our weight around, good players and managers were passed over because "we're Man Utd don't you know" and we bought players with all the care and sensibility of Michael Jackson buying 'antiques' from a Las Vegas thrift store in that Neverland documentary
Had we been humble after SAF left, we would have consulted proper footballing people, put a structure in-place and drawn up a 5YR plan
Instead we went about trying to throw our weight around, good players and managers were passed over because "we're Man Utd don't you know" and we bought players with all the care and sensibility of Michael Jackson buying 'antiques' from a Las Vegas thrift store in that Neverland documentary
Football wise, we've been long irrelevant as a top club. When was the last time we were viewed as genuine contenders for the title/champions league? Teams are happy to draw us and trash us at will at OT.
As a business and club, thankfully not yet but it's only a matter of time unless things change drastically. United built up a massive fan base in the 2000s, particularly in Asia, many of whom have abandoned the club since. Don't think newer generation of supporters will be attracted to becoming United fans more than they would like being West Ham fans right now. It's going to impact revenues very very soon.
As a business and club, thankfully not yet but it's only a matter of time unless things change drastically. United built up a massive fan base in the 2000s, particularly in Asia, many of whom have abandoned the club since. Don't think newer generation of supporters will be attracted to becoming United fans more than they would like being West Ham fans right now. It's going to impact revenues very very soon.
When Ronaldo has been replaced by Antonio Valencia
8th to 12th should be midtable
I mean I still see loads and loads kids in London and the surrounding regions walking around in Arsenal shirts, and the Arsenal's fans' online presence is pretty substantial. Their global reach is pretty big for a team that hasn't won the title in nearly two decades. United will be fine in terms of both sporting and general relevance, unless things really take a turn for the worse and you start finishing in the bottom half regularly. It's all moot anyway, because I think United next title win will come in the next 5 years.
we are irrevelent on a sporting and competition basis as no one considers us challengers for major trophies. We are in Arsenal territory
Don't think its a question of relevance, we become irrelevant when our fans stop caring!
For me its more a question of when do we become resurgent?
I've posted elsewhere that when you look at United's post WW2 history its at its best when its all about the club breaking new ground and having a manager than can do that and with owners wise enough to back them.
Busby took United into the European Cup despite fierce opposition from the English League, the first English club to take up the invitation after Chelsea on advice from the league had turned it down the year before and fittingly we became the first English club to win it (nod to Celtic there!).
Fergie built and rebuilt teams that took the new PL by the scruff of the neck and his (and our record ) of 13 wins is still way out in front of our rivals.
First club to win the top treble of PL/FA/CL
These were all 'ground breaking' achievements, sometimes in the face of opposition from our peers, not just for our club, but for the whole of English football.
The question is Ralf Rangnick the manager/consultant to point us towards new achievements and perhaps more importantly are the Glazers going to back his play.
I get the sense that he is feeling his way around all the many problems internal to the club to see what can be mended, what wants reforming and what needs to go, but suspect that once he has done all his analysis and evaluation, he will want to move the club into a ground breaking mode; or he will catch the next plane back to Germany if the Glazer's balk at his recommendations!
For me its more a question of when do we become resurgent?
I've posted elsewhere that when you look at United's post WW2 history its at its best when its all about the club breaking new ground and having a manager than can do that and with owners wise enough to back them.
Busby took United into the European Cup despite fierce opposition from the English League, the first English club to take up the invitation after Chelsea on advice from the league had turned it down the year before and fittingly we became the first English club to win it (nod to Celtic there!).
Fergie built and rebuilt teams that took the new PL by the scruff of the neck and his (and our record ) of 13 wins is still way out in front of our rivals.
First club to win the top treble of PL/FA/CL
These were all 'ground breaking' achievements, sometimes in the face of opposition from our peers, not just for our club, but for the whole of English football.
The question is Ralf Rangnick the manager/consultant to point us towards new achievements and perhaps more importantly are the Glazers going to back his play.
I get the sense that he is feeling his way around all the many problems internal to the club to see what can be mended, what wants reforming and what needs to go, but suspect that once he has done all his analysis and evaluation, he will want to move the club into a ground breaking mode; or he will catch the next plane back to Germany if the Glazer's balk at his recommendations!
Milan – 10 years without a title, with 7 consecutive years out of the top 4 & as low as 10th. No CL for 7 straight seasons. No cups.
Inter – 10 years without a title, outside the top 4 in 5 of those seasons & as low as 9th. No CL for 6 straight seasons. No cups.
United – will be 9 seasons without a title, lowest position 7th. 4 seasons outside the top 4 & 3 seasons without CL so far. Two cups & a EL title.
If the two Milan clubs aren't irrelevant (or weren't a couple years ago), United is far from it. Both are also dwarfed by United commercially. In my opinion, historic 'super clubs' such as these, never become irrelevant, short of going into administration.
| 2010–11 | 1st | Champions League | R16 |
| 2011–12 | 2nd | Champions League | QF |
| 2012–13 | 3rd | Champions League | R16 |
| 2013–14 | 8th | Champions League | R16 |
| 2014–15 | 10th | ||
| 2015–16 | 7th | ||
| 2016–17 | 6th | ||
| 2017–18 | 6th | Europa League | R16 |
| 2018–19 | 5th | Europa League | Group |
| 2019–20 | 6th | ||
| 2020–21 | 2nd | Europa League | R16 |
Inter – 10 years without a title, outside the top 4 in 5 of those seasons & as low as 9th. No CL for 6 straight seasons. No cups.
| 2009–10 | 1st | Champions League | Champions |
| 2010–11 | 2nd | Champions League | QF |
| 2011–12 | 6th | Champions League | |
| 2012–13 | 9th | Europa League | R16 |
| 2013–14 | 5th | – | |
| 2014–15 | 8th | Europa League | R16 |
| 2015–16 | 4th | – | |
| 2016–17 | 7th | Europa League | Group |
| 2017–18 | 4th | – | |
| 2018–19 | 4th | Champions League Europa League | Group R16 |
| 2019–20 | 2nd | Champions League Europa League | Group Runner-up |
| 2020–21 | 1st | Champions League | Group |
United – will be 9 seasons without a title, lowest position 7th. 4 seasons outside the top 4 & 3 seasons without CL so far. Two cups & a EL title.
| 2012–13 | 1st | Champions League | R16 | |
| 2013–14 | 7th | Champions League | QF | |
| 2014–15 | 4th | |||
| 2015–16 | 5th | FA Cup | Champions League Europa League | Group R16 |
| 2016–17 | 6th | EFL Cup | Europa League | Champions |
| 2017–18 | 2nd | Champions League | R16 | |
| 2018–19 | 6th | Champions League | QF | |
| 2019–20 | 3rd | Europa League | SF | |
| 2020–21 | 2nd | Champions League Europa League | Group Runner-Up |
If the two Milan clubs aren't irrelevant (or weren't a couple years ago), United is far from it. Both are also dwarfed by United commercially. In my opinion, historic 'super clubs' such as these, never become irrelevant, short of going into administration.
Changed the course of Chelsea's history that bit there. Imagine if Chelsea had ignored the league's demand the way United did. We could have been a European heavyweight in the 50's. Instead we lumbered through the decades with moderate success in the 70's and 90's until 2003.
We could have been United before United. Dammit.
Happened
we’ll always be relevant and people will tune on. Only they’re tuning in for a laugh right now
funny ha ha
'Irrelevance' is a stick rival fans beat a club with, so it means whatever they want it to mean. To worry about it for your own club is insecure self-flagellation.
Both those teams were definitely irrelevant.
You are basically Liverpool in the 1990's right now.
That's the easiest part, relatively speaking. How long where Liverpool a top 4/ mid table team before they challenged for the title and started winning trophies? All it takes is a top manager, good players and some luck. That can be achieved over a season or two.
We are still relevant and will continue to be relevant as a footballing behemoth for the next couple of years (5-10) as a minimum. Our branding is too strong across the world for it to suddenly become irrelevant.
Man Utd's current mediocrity stem from years of mismanagement and I blame the Glazers for that. Utd’s biggest problem was/is Ed Woodward, he maybe a fab commercial director but he's been promoted way beyond his ability. Man Utd's problem started with Moyes who was a downgrade for a club of that stature. Moyes did everything wrong. Van Gaal shouldn't have been given the job in the first place as he wanted a two year contract and then he'd retire. Mourinho.... i'm guessing he saw the shambles in the boardroom and realised he'd never be able to manage the team. He wanted rid of Martial - the board wouldn't let him get rid. He wanted rid of Pogba - the board wouldn't let him. He wanted a new centre back - the board / Woodward said that his targets were no better than the ones he already had. If an ex accountant tries to tell a top manager he knows more about players, then you can understand why Mourinho just gave up and alienated everybody. Ole's a hell of a guy and a club legend but the rebuild of Utd was far too big for him, I just don't think the players respected Ole enough to slog they're guys out on the pitch, he is too much of a nice guy. Ralph appears to be out of his depth and changes his tune from 1 week till the next and I feel sorry for him, sounds like Moyes and Van Gaal with the "We have a vision" but never explains what the vision is because it's a load of bull and people can see through those type of quotes. Post Fergie era, this club got so many things wrong that it’s almost comical. Like a rotting galleon caught in the midst of a storm, we are crashing from one problem to the next, with seemingly no end in sight.
I don't think we ever will, but with Saudi money coming in to the league I guess that once they come into their own it will be over for my interest in the title chase outside of our games. Which plastic, pathetically supported oil club spends the most to win next is simply not an aesthetically pleasing narrative. It's already getting that way in the CL.
When you are not the first match on MOTD.
Man United won’t be irrelevant to certain groups (owners, PL , media) who still can make money off the name.
However to our rivals we probably are becoming that way. We are getting absolutely nowhere near trophies that matter and can’t put any sort of challenge up towards those sides.
To the fans of those clubs it will be a big day when we play each other because of history. But losing to us on those given days means they lose ground on a rival in the title race, whilst we bask in limited glory of one off games.
That’s what we are right now. Another couple of years of what we’ve seen particularly this season then it’s curtains for even CL football and a slipdown to what Arsenal have been, probably without the trophies.
Ironically that’s what may get the owners to feck off and a football club to return. Don’t think even with that eventually happening that we’d be able to compete with what will be 2 state run financial monsters, and Chelsea.
However to our rivals we probably are becoming that way. We are getting absolutely nowhere near trophies that matter and can’t put any sort of challenge up towards those sides.
To the fans of those clubs it will be a big day when we play each other because of history. But losing to us on those given days means they lose ground on a rival in the title race, whilst we bask in limited glory of one off games.
That’s what we are right now. Another couple of years of what we’ve seen particularly this season then it’s curtains for even CL football and a slipdown to what Arsenal have been, probably without the trophies.
Ironically that’s what may get the owners to feck off and a football club to return. Don’t think even with that eventually happening that we’d be able to compete with what will be 2 state run financial monsters, and Chelsea.
We haven't even been in a title race post SAF never mind winning it.
We will get back there though.
Never
Both ourselves and Liverpool didn't win the league for decades - yet we were still the biggest 2 clubs in the country regardless of any lack of success
Both ourselves and Liverpool didn't win the league for decades - yet we were still the biggest 2 clubs in the country regardless of any lack of success
We will always be relevant as long as we take part. As for winning the league and trophies, we haven't been relevant since we last won the premier league and we won't be revelant ontill we win it again.
It’s very scary to be honest, once you understand how precarious the situation we are in. I have seen multiple articles and videos about how are debt repayments are structured and how we can’t fall below a certain profit each year or we could fold on the debt.
People always say we are too big to fail but the truth is, the bigger you are, the harder you can fall. I could see something crazy like the club going bankrupt/relegated with Glazers walking away with their money already made. Nothing is impossible in life.
Regarding your point though, I get the impression that the Glazers know the well is almost dry. It feels like Rome’s last days, the Ronaldo signing seemed desperate and very short term.
I was surprised they still took their regular dividends this year and last to. Fair enough if you don’t want to invest your own money but to take out money when your business is failing tells me that they don’t care about the long term future. Add in all the stocks they have been selling, to me they are basically asset stripping at this point.