Dude.
What percentage of games are you willing to write off if we play good football?
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
Dude.
I think the point is that if you play good, competent football, the results will eventually come. If you play shit but are getting results, the results will inevitably dry up. So its not so much about time, but just seeing the evidence in front of you. XG over time goes a long way to justifying if a team is playing well or not.
They definitely do, even when we had good runs people complained.
Zero.
The trick isn’t to play “ good football” it’s to get the best from a pretty top quality squad.
Getting the best from our squad should mean very few defeats and no 0-5 losses to anyone let alone own rivals.
I accept Rangnick will need time so I’ll give him the Chelsea game.
The trick isn’t to play “ good football” it’s to get the best from a pretty top quality squad.
Getting the best from our squad should mean very few defeats and no 0-5 losses to anyone let alone own rivals.
I accept Rangnick will need time so I’ll give him the Chelsea game.
The top 3 are away and gone but 4th is still up for grabs. I don't see West Ham or Arsenal being consistent until the end of the season. Looking at Spurs, I think it'll be a little while before they come on strong at the end of the season, while Leicester seem to be on the decline.
It's going to take some time to change because I think the style he plays is vastly different from Ole. It's not a similar mould that he can quickly tweak into a winning system.
I'd want to see the style coming through and looking decent by February and then a 4th place finish by the end of the season. The tricky part is getting decent results while making the transition. Fortunately we have quite a favourable run of games coming up.
It's going to take some time to change because I think the style he plays is vastly different from Ole. It's not a similar mould that he can quickly tweak into a winning system.
I'd want to see the style coming through and looking decent by February and then a 4th place finish by the end of the season. The tricky part is getting decent results while making the transition. Fortunately we have quite a favourable run of games coming up.
Now Ole has gone we should win almost every game surely? The caf proclaimed this 
More than winning and unimportant stuff like that, I’d like us to introduce Dutch lessons to help Ten Hag succeed next year
Well given certain vocal Caftards were happy to write off seasons, let alone games, just to prove that OgS was the chosen one it’ll be fun to see that change under a new regime.
A good footballing structure + our resources means we really shouldn’t be writing off any games before we play them. I’m more interested in accountability when things don’t go right, be that conceded goals or losing games. We won’t win everything so losses will come I’m just hoping we’re no longer openly accepting them.
A good footballing structure + our resources means we really shouldn’t be writing off any games before we play them. I’m more interested in accountability when things don’t go right, be that conceded goals or losing games. We won’t win everything so losses will come I’m just hoping we’re no longer openly accepting them.
I've said this about Liverpool before. It's essentially a more organised and more intense version of Jack Charlton's "put'em under pressure" football that he played with Ireland.
It's pretty much why he purchased Thiago to try and get more control over games.
I guess that depends on how good the football is. Are we talking Brazil '70 good or Greece '04 "good"?
That's the common reactionary thing people do when something doesn't come off within a style or system they deem "modern" or foreign".
Like "playing out from the back", everytime it goes wrong (and it will go wrong) commentators like to lose their shit and question why anyone would do such a risky thing, instead of considering how risky it is, really, for a top team to never have any possession, control, or numerical advantage due to always kicking it long and hoping for the second ball lottery to somehow fall your way.
Imagine if commentators started mouthing off every time a long kick falls to the opposition?
The other day Souness started again with how ridiculous he thinks a high line while defending free kicks is, just because a goal was scored; and how modern defending is so silly and "back in the day" bla bla.
I'd like to see some stats on how many set piece goals were conceded, in terms of percentage of overall goals, "back in the day" as opposed to today, I'm going to bet it was a hell of a lot more.
Great example of the reactionary commentary and punditry in this country. What’s annoying is that they praise it when it works and condemn it when it fails, like obviously nothing is foolproof and sometimes a mistake will be made or the opposition will intercept.
In terms of the thread topic, this is of course a relevant question. If you want your team to play out from the back and so far it doesn't know how to, how many mistakes (and these mistakes are obviously potentially fatal) do you allow them to make while you implement it? Seeing that 'one learns from mistakes'? It wouldn't be such a swift progress to tell them, whenever it gets risky, throw the plan overboard..
But I'd say at top clubs, there always has to be a balance between short term results and long term strategy. Winning the next game is always at least as important as implementing your vision, and the best managers know that exactly well. Thankfully, at top clubs there's usually also top players who can implement a style fairly quickly if coached by a top manager..
I suspect that after a few weeks of topsy turvy results we will start to dominate the first 70 mins of games and then fade away in the last 20 minutes as we haven't done the necessary fitness work in pre-season for ralf's system.
He will probably have to throw on some younger players in those last 20 minutes and sometimes they will flourish and other times they will make mistakes that cost us a few games.
However this will be worth it in the long run as we will have a more integrated squad that can provide cover for injuries, form and fatigue. Fans will have to show some patience, but it will be worth it.
He will probably have to throw on some younger players in those last 20 minutes and sometimes they will flourish and other times they will make mistakes that cost us a few games.
However this will be worth it in the long run as we will have a more integrated squad that can provide cover for injuries, form and fatigue. Fans will have to show some patience, but it will be worth it.
Without playing from the back we make lot of mistakes, so we are done with mistakes part. Now the learning part is left.
Thankfully for you, Rangnick is also a bit of a kick it long kind of guy, albeit because he's good at getting you to those second balls.
Perfect examples was John Stones in his earlier years. For years England were crying out for a CB like him, but he’d get crucified whenever he made a mistake.
I think a manager will consider the ability of his players, or age and potential. If you’re a manager like Pep managing a team where you can’t buy the player who fit your attributes then you’ll coach as best as you can but then adapt a bit to fit the players ability… eg in these situation just clear it.
If it’s a young player with great potential then you make him play to your ideals. Mistakes will as you said make him better.
In fairness, Stones really made a lot of horrible mistakes dribbling around the back, far too many mistakes; so the balance I mentioned that is needed at a top club was hard to maintain with him playing, which is also why Pep dropped him for a good while despite calling him "brave"..
We have a similar issue now with Upamecano, absolutely amazing, often god-like player, but apparently always ready to throw in an epic, earth-shattering disasterclass every 6th or 7th game or so.. difficult
27%
It shouldn't requite "writing off" any games. As long as we're progressing in the right direction and making gradual improvements it's all fine.
What convinced you to bet so much on number 69 ?
I like our chances of making top4 now. So how ever many we can write off but still finish top4 works for me.
I only care about winning.
This is why I was excited about him coming. With the quality of our squad a lot of good and surprising things could happen, who knows potentially even catch the forerunners.
We can't just keep throwing seasons away. Even if it means us winning a cup or challenging for the UCL, I think this squad is good enough to do that
Strangers things would of happened than United winning the CL this season. I don't believe they will BUT I would aim for United to be playing like the interim wants them to by February when the knockouts start.
Fixed that for you
No one will accept "good football" if it comes at the expense of consistent winning. On the other hand, fans will accept "boring football", if it comes with consistent trophies.
Potentially if we play with a plan and execute it, given our attack, I could see us winning 21 out of those 26 games. After Chelsea our run of games provides the platform for this. By the time CL knockouts come calling the system should be embedded and we would be very tough to beat.
We need to finish top 4 to attract the top managers like a Ten Hag, so the percentage should be as low as 3 games to lose out of the remaining 26 so around 12%
That's amazingly unlikely.
(a) Lots of people will disagree. Attractiveness is subjective and a lot of people don't really like Pep's emphasis on technical tiki taka either and would easily prefer the chaos that gengenpressing creates. This is worth a thread / poll of its own if you're willing to write it up. I wanted to create one but was too lazy to put in the effort it takes to contrast both styles.
(b) Given we are fundamentally incapable of pressing, someone like Ragnick drilling that into the squad will allow us to transition into a more balanced game in the future if we want. We don't have to play like Bielsa or Hasenhuttl. Nagelsmann strikes a good balance. Tuchel's another example - He's influenced by Ragnick but his pragmatic brand of football is his own invention.
Maybe but I think anymore and we dont make top 4. At the mo we are 6 points behind so can we afford to lose more than another 3 to finish top 4? I dont think so.
If he was a permanent manager I'd give Rangnick the full reign and let him to a Klopp at Liverpool.
Let him work with the squad until the squad do what he wants.
Let him work with the squad until the squad do what he wants.
None. Don't care if we play like Wimbledon if we finish top 4 this year, it will be an important summer and a tough job for the new manager even with champions League money
As long as I can always see progress, quite a lot.
I want some of what you're smoking18 more wins would take us to 71 points.
We hit 74 points for 2nd last season!
So unless you think this would be the highest points needed for 4th ever, then we certainly won't need "at least" 18 wins!