Is Pogba really world class though? World class means you turn up against every type of opposition, not just cannon fodder.
We will never win the league with Paul Pogba in the team
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Calm down, just needs Jose to catch up with most people and realise that Pogba operates best in a midfield 3 then if he could recognise that Lukaku is not a point forward all should be good. I’m sure he’ll get there eventually, just a little slow on the uptake.
While I think the OP is over the top, it's hard to argue with it too much. Pogba has been brought back to the club as the new face of the club. He is supposed to be the talisman and future captain.
Anyone can have a poor performance and there is no shame in that. The biggest worry from my perspective is losing the ball and sitting there sulking, failing to track runners and bottling a huge opportunity so he didn't collide with a defender.
This was a huge game. The Sanchez signing after a great run of results in January had given United momentum. City have a really tough run of games in February/March. This was United's toughest game by a distance over the same period but was very winnable. It was a key game in the season.
His application in a game as big as this was unacceptable. It's pointless harping back to the Fergie era but one of my favourite things about that era is how United were always up for big games. Even when playing a team who was better technically, they would never lose the fight. Seeing one of the leaders play like that is really sad.
Anyone can have a poor performance and there is no shame in that. The biggest worry from my perspective is losing the ball and sitting there sulking, failing to track runners and bottling a huge opportunity so he didn't collide with a defender.
This was a huge game. The Sanchez signing after a great run of results in January had given United momentum. City have a really tough run of games in February/March. This was United's toughest game by a distance over the same period but was very winnable. It was a key game in the season.
His application in a game as big as this was unacceptable. It's pointless harping back to the Fergie era but one of my favourite things about that era is how United were always up for big games. Even when playing a team who was better technically, they would never lose the fight. Seeing one of the leaders play like that is really sad.
The same Pogba who had just gone 36 matches without being on the losing team in the Premier League?
Yesterday was poor... but it happens. Spurs are a good side and we conceded some poor goals in a game that we left far too open. Jose hasn't managed to get the balance right so far in the big games away from home but we can learn from matches like this.
Yesterday was poor... but it happens. Spurs are a good side and we conceded some poor goals in a game that we left far too open. Jose hasn't managed to get the balance right so far in the big games away from home but we can learn from matches like this.
Any news on him having an injury? I thought it was interesting that he got the hook after an hour. First time that's happened in his United career, despite previous performances which have been just as bad. Hopefully the kick up the arse he obviously needs.
Of course, the fact his replacement fecking injured himself approximately 30 seconds after coming on the pitch does kind of remove the threat for the foreseeable future...
Of course, the fact his replacement fecking injured himself approximately 30 seconds after coming on the pitch does kind of remove the threat for the foreseeable future...
Absolute nonsense, and surprisingly so as you were one of the loudest detractors before we had the quality and inventiveness of Pogba in our midfield. ‘Zombie passing’ I believe it was.
You should have just left it as ‘we won’t win the league with Pogba in a midfield two’, then your comparison with Gerrard May be apt.
Pogba is our most creative player by a distance, and even in a poor game yesterday, set up two of our 3 shots on target, creating a one-on-one for Lingard and a good opportunity for Lukaku.
Just let him do what he’s good at, or sell him. Get someone to cover him in midfield, and he will create chance after chance.
Would you like to see Pogba in the City team?
Ummm. Which “top” team has he played against and been so poor before today? Last I remember, he missed our games against Liverpool, Chelsea and City and fans were moaning that we’d have won if he’d played. Then he played against Arsenal and would’ve been MoM if not for the red (which I felt was harsh). Seems revisionist to say he fails against top teams when he’s not really played them at all!
Again, see above. Which team had he failed to “turn up against” before yesterday?
I can understand it if people call a performance poor etc. but to completely diss our best player in this manner is absolutely bizarre. He had some record of going a year+ without featuring in a defeat till yesterday I think. Not too bad for a player-that-we’ll-never-win-the-league-with, eh?
My partial agreement with the OP isn't just based on the Tottenham game, it's based his overall performance and the fact that he plays with a swagger and sense of entitlement that very quickly evaporates when he's up against it in a game. He's great when afforded a little more space/time, but when he isn't he quickly gets petulant and unsettled. Before he came into form after he'd resigned, that's how he played, trotting about always expecting to have a little more time on the ball than he'd get.
This approach to playing is going to look great when you're ahead or playing a weaker side, less so when you're up against it. Hopefully he'll learn, nobody owes him the right to believe his own hype & look good, sponsorships and handshakes aside.
I'm not sure I totally agree that we won't win the league with him in the team, that's a bit extreme. It's not uncommon for players to look much better when their team is on top. Spurs are a great example. The likes of Alli and Erikson are both good players on their day, but have been invisible in games plenty of times. They're both cheats as well but that's another rant!
On another note, bringing in Sanchez has meant that the teams we're playing seem to focus on kicking him out of the game as they did yesterday! Maybe less unwanted attention on PP? Didn't pan out last night though.
This approach to playing is going to look great when you're ahead or playing a weaker side, less so when you're up against it. Hopefully he'll learn, nobody owes him the right to believe his own hype & look good, sponsorships and handshakes aside.
I'm not sure I totally agree that we won't win the league with him in the team, that's a bit extreme. It's not uncommon for players to look much better when their team is on top. Spurs are a great example. The likes of Alli and Erikson are both good players on their day, but have been invisible in games plenty of times. They're both cheats as well but that's another rant!
On another note, bringing in Sanchez has meant that the teams we're playing seem to focus on kicking him out of the game as they did yesterday! Maybe less unwanted attention on PP? Didn't pan out last night though.
Just write down one big game in which he made an impact.
We don't have anyone when Pogba doesn't deliver. Matić can't play with big intensity, we saw that yesterday. He's dead, too slow after 50-60 mins.
We don't have anyone when Pogba doesn't deliver. Matić can't play with big intensity, we saw that yesterday. He's dead, too slow after 50-60 mins.
Presumably that's an opinion based on his performance against top teams last season. From memory, he didn't play well in any of them.
This place after a defeat is a joke. Spurs away is now one of the toughest games of the season. We were bad but surely last nights result can’t have been so unexpected by so many??
Roll on Saturday - please!
Next year he will be. You see it so often with a Suarez, a Gerrard, a Salah, a De Bruyne, a Rooney or a Greizmann who show flashes of brilliance but still frustrate - then they hit 25/26 and suddenly become the most in form player in Europe
Noods has had it in for Pogba for ages, he’s just been quiet of late for obvious reasons. The fault lies with the manager yesterday. He, again, lined up with no clue. It appears that he relied simply on fielding better football players than Spurs in order to win the game. Starting Lingard over Herrera was a ridiculous decision in such a game. Let’s first get a foothold in the game, and then think about trying to win it.
Only thing that is clear after 18 months is that we have not seen the best version of Pogba on a consistent basis
Hilarious how many people are being wise after the fact when the overwhelming response on first seeing the line-up was “Yay! What a great attacking line-up!”
Why would I speak for anyone else? It’s a stupid line-up for blindingly obvious reasons, which have been demonstrated before, against lesser teams than Spurs.
My lineup prediction had Herrera in for Lingard, largely due to common sense.
Whilst I agree with you, Spurs record v the Top 6 for the last few years is absolutely terrible.
At home it's good, it's their away record that's terrible.
Meh. I’d have had him in there too but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t excited to see us set up with such an attacking approach. We looked great for about 20 minutes too. For me, the inquest shouldn’t be about tactics or formation but how the second game killed us off completely with a fecking hour left to play.
Btw didn't he play very good game against Everton in 4-3-3 playing mostly from left side?
It might sound like an excuse but he shouldn't play in 2 man midfield against stronger teams, against midtable it's fine.
It might sound like an excuse but he shouldn't play in 2 man midfield against stronger teams, against midtable it's fine.
This is a WUM surely.
Agree with this. What is worrying is that Jose doesn't seem to realise it. He's so set in his 4-2-3-1 ways.
Two stupid goals, dents the confidence more than the opposition out-playing you. There's nothing to get angry about when it's self inflicted.
Oh and this thread, fecking hell.
Tbf to the op, he was one of the biggest reasons for our failure last night. However, it should point to a bigger problem, namely that when Pogba is bad = United are bad. So we’re not playing to his strengths, but at the same time that was a beyond childish performance from him. Is it a coincident that we looked so much more compact in the middle against them at home (Pogba injured)?
Why so serious?
We will never win the league without a Micheal Carrick replacement
IMO Matic is doing pretty well atm. We are just so imbalanced in the centre of the park especially against elite teams because Pogba is non-existent defensively. We need the extra body to free him up and drop a number 10.
I'll say this for Pogba... he's not a number 6! Not in any team.
Pogba will be part of e title winning team for us. He shouldn't be captain that is for sure. I previously had him as our future captain, but now i realize he doesn't have the character for that.
Perhaps a small knee jerk reaction but i really think we need that controller that runs the game. Spurs pressed really good and with the Matic Pogba pivot our midtfield was non-existent.But Matic's inability to controll games hamper us when we play a midtfield two and generally when Pogba doenst show up. The Chuckle Brothers Smalling and Jones struggled immensily with the Spurs pressing and without Fellaini to limp the ball up to we lost the game in midtfield.
Chuckle Brothers. Harsh on Jones because I think that's his first poor game in a while. I have zero like for Smalling. He's a brain fart waiting to be let loose at any moment. A wet one at that. I'd say that the pivot is failing because Pogba is too immature for it. It worked well for Matic and Fabregas with Jose when he came back to Chelsea and won the league. Matic does know how to play a double pivot, but if we want him and Pogba to flourish together they need a workhorse destroyer.
he was hooked because he playing like junk.
He was supposed to be in a midfield 2 - but I rarely seen him there.
It's shame when a 90 million pound midfielder cannot play in a midfield 2 competently. it's atrocious really.
But the man has ability and we need to utilise that, so he needs to play further up as he cannot be trusted in CM. He can be an asset for us, just needs to be used correctly
I can see how juices will flow with such a line-up, and my heart wanted to see it too, although my head knew it probably wasn’t best. I kept seeing it as one Amman in midfield.
I think a misconception on the caf too is the idea of ‘4-2-3-1 against easy teams, and we can play 4-3-3 against better teams’ as a plan. Control is key, and if we surrender control, there will be no attacking bombardment. If it were that simple, why not just go 4-2-4 and add even more attackers? Then we’ll ‘attack more’.
We did the same thing away to Liverpool and home to City, although we had less choice due to injury to Pogba and Fellaini. We had Martial, Rashford, Lingard and Lukaku against City - and couldn’t string anything together as we forgot to have a midfield. 3 midfielders can be offensive too, as evidenced by the Champions elect, and just about every great team of the last decade, anywhere. Pep plays three to control the game, and even then, puts his full-backs in there to make sure opponents are strangled and outnumbered.
I’ve long said the job of a high-functioning too-level midfield, i.e - defend, control and create cannot be done by two players. Almost always, one of the three elements are sacrificed. The only thing is more times than not, if the game descends to ‘you have a shot, we have a shot’, to quote Paul Merson, we will win due to more quality, but not without enough warning signs that ‘a better team would punish us’. Just like Stoke at home, when they walked through our midfield repeatedly, but didn’t score.
You say we should have stood up better after the second, but that just sounds more like ‘United spirit’ stuff to me and no actual strategy. We were doomed from the off with two in the middle, and I don’t see how we would then be expected to impose ourselves with the same formation from a position of chasing the game (i.e - a situation with even LESS control).
Isn't that the point? No one really expects that we'll turn up in matches against good opposition.
the mind boggles with this knee jerk thread. We might not, as you never know, but Pogba is one of the best chances we have of winning it.
We won win the premier league if Pogba is the MAIN midfielder. We gotta just accept we need someone to run the midfield behind him, and he will just play the attacking mid role, hes not a general, hes the main midfield guy. He is a very creative attacking mid though.
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