Was prime Rooney really the 3rd best player in the world?

Right or wrong would be revealed by the whole regard he had at those times, not now. Was Rooney being discussed as such at the time in the media, on forums, in general perception? Someone who is into deep-diving will give a clear answer to that.


Rooney’s ‘expected/estimated’ all-time standard dropped quite emphatically during his younger years and he was reframed for the now of then rather than having the likes of Di Stefano and Charlton as the bar for him to match or better. The Euro ‘04 Rooney was expected to be the normal Rooney for a while, then it became clear that might be a career high or outlier than his normal and general level and he was assessed accordingly in line with the lowered expectations, which there is no shame in as he basically went from ‘the one’ to ‘just’ a very exciting, top class player amongst his peers. I was involved in a lot of discussions about this at the time and it was an adjusted bar from what he started out as; potentially outdoing Di Stefano as a player was exciting because it was unthinkable even as a suggestion for however many players have come and gone over the decades; that Rooney could even be seen of in that light, however fleeting, is testament to what he achieved at a preposterously young age.

I think his prime(s) themselves were phased and re-framed in certain communities who are into the history of the game or comparing old to new, but in general, I guess it’s seen as the young, wilder player up to the point the Munich injury ruined his explosive game and took him off the trajectory he had.
Really don’t get this? Surely a true reflection is given by looking back over his career. Also would be interesting to see if Spanish, French, Italian media ever saw Rooney close to top three in the world. English media massively hyped Rooney and disregarded almost every player that wasn’t Messi/Ronaldo.

As for the point you made.....I remember how Lee Sharpe was regarded when he broke through. The 91 season he looked unplayable. A really special talent. There was a period around April where we’d played a league game where he’d run the length of the pitch past four players about five or six times, every time he touched the ball the crowd were on their feet. Then we played Leeds in the league cup and I think he scored in the home leg and the winner in the away leg. He was getting comparisons with all kinds of players, including Best, he was as exciting as it gets. But it’s not accurate to judge him on regard. It’s accurate to judge him on his career.
 
When was peak Rooney?
He had a few of them in my book. Playing second fiddle to Ronaldo overshadows some of it, but he stepped up when the latter left in particular.

If you want to break it down to just how many goals he scored in a given season then it’s a pointless argument. The same way it would be if you did that for somebody like Robbo or Cantona, they were much greater players than the sum of their goals scored alone.
 
He was only really as good as Manchester United was.

When we were the best team in the world - Rooney as the "third best player in the world" wasn't sounding nonsensical. This was in 2007-2008.

When United were beaten and were no more the best team in the world - Rooney was no more seen as a top 3 best player in the world.
Yeah, that's a good assessment. His best claim would be that 2009/10 season, when he went supernova in November/December and went from strength to strength including the demolition of AC Milan and a goal against Bayern... before they kicked him out of the game and he never recovered — not in terms of that season, not in terms of his career (he had a similarly productive season later but he wasn't quite as good as he was in 2009/10 in my opinion). We also looked like we were going to steamroll through the CL that season with Rooney as our talisman — and we probably would've, seeing as Barcelona got eliminated without our help.

He was also absolutely tearing it up for Capello's England in the World Cup Qualification, scoring 9 in 10, I think, as well as a couple of goals in different friendlies (scoring 14 international goals that year, if I'm not mistaken)... the scene was all set up for him to secure his place in history, he gets an injury and doesn't recover his form for England either.

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Charlton
Moore
Mathews
Robson

Again I’d have him in with Gerrard, Becks, Scholes and even then behind Gazza.
There's also Finney and Greaves somewhere up there. Charlton should be in a tier of his own, then a bunch of all-time greats like Moore, Matthews & Finney and Rooney probably gets into the next tier alongside Robson, Becks, Gazza etc.
 
Always thought it was Robben when he was fit. Funny how that works.
I actually think that Robben kinda overtook Rooney in what was very much a direct competition (even though I'd still have Xavi as 3rd and probably Iniesta as 4th). At least from my perspective as a non-Bayern fan that goal at Old Trafford had really changed his narrative from a talented, but injury-prone Madrid reject to a real pretender to the throne — and he would go on to play on that newly-found level for a few seasons after that, including 2 great World Cups and many titles with Bayern. For Rooney that same game against Bayern in hindsight had meant the end of his attempt to reach that God-like level, he still had a couple of magnificent years after that but he had lost that spark that he had from his younger days.
 
He had a few of them in my book. Playing second fiddle to Ronaldo overshadows some of it, but he stepped up when the latter left in particular.

If you want to break it down to just how many goals he scored in a given season then it’s a pointless argument. The same way it would be if you did that for somebody like Robbo or Cantona, they were much greater players than the sum of their goals scored alone.

I didn't mention goals, so I don't really know what that's about.
 
Really don’t get this? Surely a true reflection is given by looking back over his career. Also would be interesting to see if Spanish, French, Italian media ever saw Rooney close to top three in the world. English media massively hyped Rooney and disregarded almost every player that wasn’t Messi/Ronaldo.

As for the point you made.....I remember how Lee Sharpe was regarded when he broke through. The 91 season he looked unplayable. A really special talent. There was a period around April where we’d played a league game where he’d run the length of the pitch past four players about five or six times, every time he touched the ball the crowd were on their feet. Then we played Leeds in the league cup and I think he scored in the home leg and the winner in the away leg. He was getting comparisons with all kinds of players, including Best, he was as exciting as it gets. But it’s not accurate to judge him on regard. It’s accurate to judge him on his career.
If done so objectively and properly, sure, but Rooney has one of the worst cases of recency bias you're ever going to see, which really overshadows his standing before his levels dropped. A problem for Rooney also, is that players of his calibre are never supposed to go so far off the boil and people tend to factor it into their assessment rather than separating the career or drawing a line where he was obviously no longer part of any such conversation.

If we use Messi as an example, most will afford him grace and disregard his PSG portion to focus on what made him the player he was. We can also use Best here, who also fell off a cliff in a similar way to Rooney at a young age, difference being, in his assessments, nobody uses that part of his career to do down his exploits in his younger days. Rooney is not afforded this; he gets marked down for his poor years in a way others don't or won't.

Your second paragraph is apt for a lot of players, Rooney isn't unique in that regard; we could use John O'Shea for an even starker contrast, as if we took his debut season and extrapolated potential based on that, he'd go on to become one of the greatest FB's the game has ever seen, but that doesn't mean you don't talk about those things in isolation as it was part of Rooney's initial perception and Euro 2004 solidified it and was tangible, and that Rooney, the one that was a modern-day Di Stefano for being active and devastating in so many areas of the pitch, would obviously be assessed differently to other versions of Rooney that started to taper and did not have that kind of edge despite still being top class. But this stuff is comparing Rooney to himself and the highest level of player to play the game and not even his peers. It's a very different discussion and one that didn't last long because that kind of performance was not his norm' despite him still being a special player.
 
I actually think that Robben kinda overtook Rooney in what was very much a direct competition (even though I'd still have Xavi as 3rd and probably Iniesta as 4th). At least from my perspective as a non-Bayern fan that goal at Old Trafford had really changed his narrative from a talented, but injury-prone Madrid reject to a real pretender to the throne — and he would go on to play on that newly-found level for a few seasons after that, including 2 great World Cups and many titles with Bayern. For Rooney that same game against Bayern in hindsight had meant the end of his attempt to reach that God-like level, he still had a couple of magnificent years after that but he had lost that spark that he had from his younger days.
Yes, I think this is accurate. Last sentence is a real shame (for Rooney) because that player was gone for good with that injury.
 
I always thought the player in his prime wasn't as exciting to watch as the youngster who burst on to the scene. At the age of 17-21, he was the type of player who would get the ball and just run through players and tie them up with his dribbling. He seemed to lose this part of his game (maybe due to injuries)? He became better in other areas, notably his positioning within the box and his ability to finish.

I always thought his first touch held him back, when he played in the number 10 position and the ball was zipped into him, he would often struggle to kill the ball with his back to goal. I wouldn't say he was the best player behind Ronaldo/Messi but he was definitely in the conversation and you wouldn't necessarily say someone's opinion was off if they had him as the 3rd.
 
I always felt that Rooney made the wrong adaptation as he aged. Instead of dropping into midfield he should have become a poacher. He didn’t have the legs to play midfield as he got older but he could have been a really effective goal poacher for us.
 
He didn’t really live up to his potential for me. He broke records sure, but he could’ve been so much more when he first broke into the scene.

If he had Ronaldo’s dedication, he could have been one of the greats.
 
If done so objectively and properly, sure, but Rooney has one of the worst cases of recency bias you're ever going to see, which really overshadows his standing before his levels dropped. A problem for Rooney also, is that players of his calibre are never supposed to go so far off the boil and people tend to factor it into their assessment rather than separating the career or drawing a line where he was obviously no longer part of any such conversation.

If we use Messi as an example, most will afford him grace and disregard his PSG portion to focus on what made him the player he was. We can also use Best here, who also fell off a cliff in a similar way to Rooney at a young age, difference being, in his assessments, nobody uses that part of his career to do down his exploits in his younger days. Rooney is not afforded this; he gets marked down for his poor years in a way others don't or won't.

Your second paragraph is apt for a lot of players, Rooney isn't unique in that regard; we could use John O'Shea for an even starker contrast, as if we took his debut season and extrapolated potential based on that, he'd go on to become one of the greatest FB's the game has ever seen, but that doesn't mean you don't talk about those things in isolation as it was part of Rooney's initial perception and Euro 2004 solidified it and was tangible, and that Rooney, the one that was a modern-day Di Stefano for being active and devastating in so many areas of the pitch, would obviously be assessed differently to other versions of Rooney that started to taper and did not have that kind of edge despite still being top class. But this stuff is comparing Rooney to himself and the highest level of player to play the game and not even his peers. It's a very different discussion and one that didn't last long because that kind of performance was not his norm' despite him still being a special player.
From my persoective my opinion on Rooney never really changed from when I first saw him to now. Never understood how he was considered better than Scholes. But was in that category for me.

I think Best is a very poor comparison because he was so good, his latter career has no impact on how he is viewed.
 
I didn't mention goals, so I don't really know what that's about.
Well I assumed you were taking a negative view on my claim he was top 3 and most people take that stance on things like goals alone as we can see in this thread.

IMO he’s underrated here on the caf especially. Imo he’s a United Legend and is in the conversation as the best player of the PL era, if you take his entire career into consideration.

What are your thoughts on his peak?
 
The idea of Peak Wayne Rooney as 3rd best player is completely wrong. He wasn't even the best player in Premier League during 09/10.

Didier Drogba: 37 goals + 17 assists in 44 games
Wayne Rooney: 34 goals + 7 assists in 44 games

You won't find anyone making the case Peak Drogba was 3rd best player at any point of his career.

Honestly, Rooney is becoming massively overrated with his mythical peak lmfao.

Oh that's settled it then, statistics obviously tell the whole picture.
 
Always thought it was Robben when he was fit. Funny how that works.
Really struggle to see this if I’m honest. Top player but I wouldn’t put him anywhere near peak Rooney. Rooney went from being raved about as arguably the best in the world (until Ronaldo/Messi joined in LL and took things to a new level) to basically being disliked by every fanbase including our own and it still shows today.

I also think sadly for Robben you can’t really say the 3 best peak players in the world from this time are all essentially variations of the same position. The two goats are not really up for discussion but a big reason Ronaldo/Messi are standouts (and why we love players like Robben, Hazard, Bale etc) is they play in positions where it is much easier to create an amazing highlight reel, you regularly get played into space and are allowed to take players on in situations that favour attackers. Robben was arguably the best in the world at cutting onto his left from the RW and curling it far corner but if we’re selecting top 3 players from this era, two are nailed on and the other surely needs to be a different kind of player.
 
From my persoective my opinion on Rooney never really changed from when I first saw him to now. Never understood how he was considered better than Scholes. But was in that category for me.

I think Best is a very poor comparison because he was so good, his latter career has no impact on how he is viewed.
Euro 2004 Rooney had no sway on your perception of the player, really? What he was doing, and the players he was doing it to was seen a very few youngsters in the history of the game. His potential, at that time, looked unlimited and the sky was the only place fitting for his talent - he was being directly compared with Charlton and above - a dead cert to be the best player England had ever produced. Those perceptions faded in time.

Best was done far, far before he should've been and his lifestyle choices put paid to the player he was well before time, which is not dissimilar to Rooney (injuries accepted); what Rooney had done to what Rooney became is a shocking contrast, and it has altered some peoples' perceptions of the player for good, so has done the opposite for him and tainted him in some eyes.
 
He was only really as good as Manchester United was.

When we were the best team in the world - Rooney as the "third best player in the world" wasn't sounding nonsensical. This was in 2007-2008.

When United were beaten and were no more the best team in the world - Rooney was no more seen as a top 3 best player in the world.
That’s true for all the recent greats I suppose though isn’t it.

Once the team their in stops performing it’s nigh on impossible to remain a top 3 player.
 
Euro 2004 Rooney had no sway on your perception of the player, really? What he was doing, and the players he was doing it to was seen a very few youngsters in the history of the game. His potential, at that time, looked unlimited and the sky was the only place fitting for his talent - he was being directly compared with Charlton and above - a dead cert to be the best player England had ever produced. Those perceptions faded in time.

Best was done far, far before he should've been and his lifestyle choices put paid to the player he was well before time, which is not dissimilar to Rooney (injuries accepted); what Rooney had done to what Rooney became is a shocking contrast, and it has altered some peoples' perceptions of the player for good, so has done the opposite for him and tainted him in some eyes.
Rooney looked a great talent to me when he broke through and went on to be that. But I never saw him, even then, having the level of talent of a Zidane, Ronaldinho, Henry so I would never have thought he was going to be comparable with Charlton. I felt Rooney was hyped beyond what I was seeing, which was great but not elite level talent of the all time greats. Even in Euro 2004 I watched more in awe of what Ronaldo was doing as a wide player because he was doing incredible things, whilst it could be argued Rooney was achieving more in the tournament.
 
Prime Rooney was incredibly good. It's always difficult to say 'top one, top two, top three etc...'...but what I would say is that Rooney would have gotten into any side in the world between 2005-2010
 
Really struggle to see this if I’m honest. Top player but I wouldn’t put him anywhere near peak Rooney. Rooney went from being raved about as arguably the best in the world (until Ronaldo/Messi joined in LL and took things to a new level) to basically being disliked by every fanbase including our own and it still shows today.

I also think sadly for Robben you can’t really say the 3 best peak players in the world from this time are all essentially variations of the same position. The two goats are not really up for discussion but a big reason Ronaldo/Messi are standouts (and why we love players like Robben, Hazard, Bale etc) is they play in positions where it is much easier to create an amazing highlight reel, you regularly get played into space and are allowed to take players on in situations that favour attackers. Robben was arguably the best in the world at cutting onto his left from the RW and curling it far corner but if we’re selecting top 3 players from this era, two are nailed on and the other surely needs to be a different kind of player.
Robben's highlights were always the cutting inside, but he was much more than that honestly. He could also give a brilliant through ball and was excellent at set pieces. Above all though, he was really a 1 man team at times. The sheer individual impact he could have on games is only rivalled by Messi this era.

Obviously there's also a bit of bias here. I am a huge fan of Robben.
 
Well I assumed you were taking a negative view on my claim he was top 3 and most people take that stance on things like goals alone as we can see in this thread.

IMO he’s underrated here on the caf especially. Imo he’s a United Legend and is in the conversation as the best player of the PL era, if you take his entire career into consideration.

What are your thoughts on his peak?

I took a negative view on him being definitively in the top 3 during his prime, simply because it's highly questionable since his prime is during Xavi, Robben, Tevez, Iniesta, David Villa, Yaya Touré, Ribéry, RVP and other players primes. Personally I have Xavi as third when you consider several successive seasons and after that a group of 5 to 10 players that had a claim for 4th and some years even third in the case of Robben. Rooney was one of the 5 to 10 players competing for the spots outside of top 3.

During Rooney's prime 2008-2012 my Top 5 would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Dani Alves and one of Rooney/RVP/Piqué/Robben.
 
Robben's highlights were always the cutting inside, but he was much more than that honestly. He could also give a brilliant through ball and was excellent at set pieces. Above all though, he was really a 1 man team at times. The sheer individual impact he could have on games is only rivalled by Messi this era.

Obviously there's also a bit of bias here. I am a huge fan of Robben.
He obviously could do more than just cutting in and was a top player but I guess you’re rating him now apparently higher than Ronaldo for his individual contributions which seems incredibly loose.

Id say Robben and Bale are a good comparison. Both mercurial when running at players, great technically and also left footed but beaten by injuries which sadly meant we never saw what they could have been had they had a solid uninterrupted body of work at their peak. Hazard and Sanchez before their moves to Real and United were talked of in the same breath as Robben for example (I’d agree he’s above those two though).
 
Rooney was comfortably the third best player in the world at one point. This threads doing him a disservice. He played in an overrated and shit English side he was expected to carry, and still was their best player by a mile. He demolished the Premier League, and he utterly demolished the Champions League, often while playing in sides that included Anderson and Cleverley as the ''''creative'''' players behind him. He scored from the half way line, he scored overhead kicks, he scored ANY kind of goal you can imagine. He probably ran more than anyone else in our team, was one of the fastest players in the Premier League, and became ours and Englands all time top scorer for a reason.
 
He probably would of won the 2004 Ballon d'Or if he didn't get injured to be fair... not that it means much, Shevchenko was probably never really the third best player on the planet either, although he'll get the same reasonable backing for it - while the two clear cut at the top - Ronaldo and Zidane - weren't as clear cut as consistently as Ronaldo and Messi were.... they had off years, for whatever reasons.
 
Rooney was comfortably the third best player in the world at one point. This threads doing him a disservice. He played in an overrated and shit English side he was expected to carry, and still was their best player by a mile. He demolished the Premier League, and he utterly demolished the Champions League, often while playing in sides that included Anderson and Cleverley as the ''''creative'''' players behind him. He scored from the half way line, he scored overhead kicks, he scored ANY kind of goal you can imagine. He probably ran more than anyone else in our team, was one of the fastest players in the Premier League, and became ours and Englands all time top scorer for a reason.

Ah come on now, I think you've missed the point of this thread entirely. Your supposed lay down all of the reasons why he wasn't.

There's really not enough revisonist negativity in there for any of that to be true at all.
 
I took a negative view on him being definitively in the top 3 during his prime, simply because it's highly questionable since his prime is during Xavi, Robben, Tevez, Iniesta, David Villa, Yaya Touré, Ribéry, RVP and other players primes. Personally I have Xavi as third when you consider several successive seasons and after that a group of 5 to 10 players that had a claim for 4th and some years even third in the case of Robben. Rooney was one of the 5 to 10 players competing for the spots outside of top 3.

During Rooney's prime 2008-2012 my Top 5 would probably be Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Dani Alves and one of Rooney/RVP/Piqué/Robben.
Yeah the bolded are the fixed 1 and 2 (in that order for me as well.) But all the other players you listed with the exception of RVP were playing in teams that dominated their leagues with star studded squads, the Barca boys were in one of the most dominant sides in history.

Rooney was very much carrying us post-Ronaldo with the weight of the world on his shoulders, he had multiple roles showing his natural ability and intelligence of the game, dragging us to at least compete with Barca at finals ahead of teams like Bayern (I’m not saying single handed but in a squad that relied heavily on him and in the most difficult league to boot.)

He was a driving force for us and not just by putting the ball in the net, we were a different team without him on the pitch, I’d argue he had more to do than the singular roles of the others mentioned and more pressure on him to do it, whilst in the most difficult league. So in that period he got spot #3 in my eyes. But each to their own.
 
I dont ever remember considering Rooney as a best of the rest player. He was definitely a worldclass player in his form, but I dont remember him being the best after Messi Ronaldo at any point in time.

I see a lot of 2010 mentions, but in 2010 Wesley Sneijder should have won Ballon D'or.. Was the key player in a treble winning Inter and bringing NL to the World Cup final. (this was probably the only season Sneijder was actually one of the best, Mourinho hit the right nerve somehow..)
 
Yeah the bolded are the fixed 1 and 2 (in that order for me as well.) But all the other players you listed with the exception of RVP were playing in teams that dominated their leagues with star studded squads, the Barca boys were in one of the most dominant sides in history.

Rooney was very much carrying us post-Ronaldo with the weight of the world on his shoulders, he had multiple roles showing his natural ability and intelligence of the game, dragging us to at least compete with Barca at finals ahead of teams like Bayern (I’m not saying single handed but in a squad that relied heavily on him and in the most difficult league to boot.)

He was a driving force for us and not just by putting the ball in the net, we were a different team without him on the pitch, I’d argue he had more to do than the singular roles of the others mentioned and more pressure on him to do it, whilst in the most difficult league. So in that period he got spot #3 in my eyes. But each to their own.

That's an hyperbolic view. Rooney was our best player but he wasn't carrying us. United had one of the best defense in the world up until 2012, he was strongly supported by world class players like Berbatov, Carrick and Scholes. Post Ronaldo also saw Nani and Valencia have some of the finest seasons from wingers in the PL era.

I would argue that considering that Rooney was in contention for the 4th best is significantly more accurate than your description of Rooney post Ronaldo. He never dragged us to compete with Barcelona. That's actually the beauty of United and SAF as a manager, we played as a team and won as a team with constant contribution from a range of players that would take turn and support our most talented players.
 
Yeah, that's a good assessment. His best claim would be that 2009/10 season, when he went supernova in November/December and went from strength to strength including the demolition of AC Milan and a goal against Bayern... before they kicked him out of the game and he never recovered — not in terms of that season, not in terms of his career (he had a similarly productive season later but he wasn't quite as good as he was in 2009/10 in my opinion). We also looked like we were going to steamroll through the CL that season with Rooney as our talisman — and we probably would've, seeing as Barcelona got eliminated without our help.

He was also absolutely tearing it up for Capello's England in the World Cup Qualification, scoring 9 in 10, I think, as well as a couple of goals in different friendlies (scoring 14 international goals that year, if I'm not mistaken)... the scene was all set up for him to secure his place in history, he gets an injury and doesn't recover his form for England either.

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Yeah, I mean for me, the thread doesn't really have an accurate question to really get an accurate answer.

Is the thread asking -
  • A) Was Rooney ever the 3rd best player in the world over a course of a decade?(or even half a decade?)
  • B) or was Rooney ever the 3rd best player in the world during a single season?
For me Rooney was never the 3rd best player in the world over a course of a decade or even half a decade.

But for me Rooney was the 3rd best player in the world during a single season. (Maybe at max even a season and a half)

This was during the 2007-2009 era; arguably when United was also at the top reaching both the 08 and 09 CL Final.

Rooney in 2011 for example may have been in some immense form for us, arguably to some even better but he ultimately wasn't the 3rd best in the world then, because we as a club were not successful.
 
He was. He literally was, being voted Players' and Fans' Player of the Year ahead of Drogba. The latter only overcame him in the last few games (including a hat-trick in a 8:0 trashing of Wigan) with Rooney struggling with an injury since April. That's not to say that Drogba wasn't amazing that year, he was and Chelsea were a machine... but Rooney was better.

Agreed. I brought up this point in the 'Benzema vs Rooney' thread that judging by statistics alone without context is erroneous because it doesn't paint the whole picture. Rooney is a player who offers a lot more than simply goals and assists. This is not to say that the likes of Benzema and Drogba don't, or didn't in the latter's case. Rooney, however, offers significantly more. There is a very good reason why Rooney was selected by his fellow peers and adversaries (I don't think they are allowed to vote for their team mate) for the PFA Players' of the Year award, despite Drogba finishing the season with better stats and Chelsea winning the Double that season. It's the same reason why Rooney also won the Fans' Player of the Year (voted by the fans), Premier League Player of the Season (voted by the sponsors), and the FWA Footballer of the Year (voted by the journalists) by a record 80% of the votes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8653254.stm

It was a clean sweep.

Chelsea were a machine in 2009/10. They broke several records in the PL that season, including most goals scored (103) and biggest goal difference in the PL campaign (+71). Drogba was surrounded by an outstanding support cast around him. Lampard chipped in with 27 goals that season. Which remains a record for a midfielder in the top 5 leagues in Europe till this day. While Malouda (who was a regular starter for the France NT then) and Anelka (who himself was enjoying a sort of mini-renaissance) each netted 15 times too.

In contrast, United were hugely reliant on Rooney carrying their attack for much of the season after the departure of both Ronaldo and Tevez. What made United so strong in the past was due to their formidable defence and dynamic attack that had Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez interchanging fluidly, ripping teams apart with their pace and movement. With Ronaldo and Tevez gone, their replacements were Nani (a maddeningly inconsistent player) and Valencia (a newcomer in his debut season). While both of them enjoyed a good season in 2009/10, they were solid but unspectacular.

The reality was that United's attack had became less potent and dangerous, but more predictable. They were easier to defend and come up against. United's title charge crumpled after Rooney twisted his ankle vs Bayern in the QF CL first leg at the Allianz Arena. He was then forced to return from his injury early, and re-damaged his ankle in the return leg.

This was Chelsea's and United's top scorers in the 2009/10 season:

Chelsea
Drogba - 37
Lampard - 27
Malouda/Anelka - 15

United
Rooney - 34
Berbatov - 12
Own goals - 11

Berbatov was poor and very disappointing that season. Ferguson lost confidence in him and dropped him from his plans. He eventually bought Hernandez to replace Berbatov. Though Berbatov did return to form next season, it was too little too late for his United career as Ferguson had already made up his mind that Berbatov was never going to be the mercurial enigma like he hoped Cantona was.

It was also this season that the own goals meme started making its' way around the forums (I was a lurker then lol). United had 11 own goals in their favour that season, with no other players scoring double digits in the squad. Apart from Drogba, Lampard, Malouda and Anelka, Kalou also scored 12 goals. Which means that the 5th highest scorer for Chelsea that season was on par with United's 2nd highest scorer. And Kalou wasn't even a regular starter. Very telling with regards to the disparity of quality and strength in depth between the two sides then.

Speaking of the formidable defence, 2009/10 was also the season that Ferdinand's injuries problems started. He ended up with only 21 appearances (13 in the league) in all comps that season. Vidic also had his fair share of injury woes, but was slightly more fortunate and made 33 appearances (24 in the league). Which was a sharp decline from the 55 appearances he made the season before. Aside from Evra, Ferguson had to frequently chop and change the backline then. An inexperienced Jonny Evans was often tasked with being the deputy in either Ferdinand or Vidic's absence, while an inexperienced Rafael rotated with Brown for the RB berth.

On the other hand. Terry was ever-present for Chelsea that season. He had 51 appearances for them. While Ivanovic was in the form of his life and was selected in the PFA Team of the Year. He also sort of became a fan favourite from that season onwards. Even VDS was starting to decline that season and ended up with only 29 appearances. By far the lowest games he has played in a season throughout his United career. There was some serious debate going on then whether VDS should be dropped for Kuszczak permanently.

Much of United's title charge that season was down to the managerial ability of Ferguson, and of course, a certain Wayne Rooney. It was no coincidence that the moment Rooney injury took place, United's title charge came to a screeching halt. None of the other United players were in the same class of ability. It was not just the goals and assists that he made. His level of intensity and energy was influential to those around him. He really inspired the team and drove them forward that season.

Managers like Klopp/Rangnick would absolutely adore him due to his immense work ethic, stamina and fondness to press and win the ball back quickly. I would wager had it not been for his unfortunate injury, he would go against all odds and led United to the PL title that season and will be remembered more fondly in the same way RVP is after leading United to their 20th title. Or perhaps if Ferguson had spent the Ronaldo money on Ozil, Robben and Kompany.

Here are some quotes on Rooney


As Manchester United‘s and England‘s record goalscorer, Wayne Rooney is deservedly remembered as a footballing legend.

After bursting onto the scene at Everton as a young teenager, Rooney quickly became a household name and demonstrated his outrageous talent on an almost weekly basis.

Cristiano Ronaldo
“He was the kid of England, everyone loved him. He was so powerful I was calling him ‘Pitbull.’ The power of Wayne Rooney is his mentality and strength and he never stops running. He’s a fantastic team player and he scores. He’s a fantastic boy and he helped me a lot when he came to join us in Manchester.”

Lionel Messi
“There has always been a great deal of respect between myself and Wayne Rooney. For me he is the greatest English player of the generation. What he is capable of doing on the field is very special, and he is one of the few players that would improve any squad in Europe.”

Thierry Henry
“To play well for six months or a season in football is nothing. To do so for over a decade like Rooney is extraordinary. I know what it takes, and it isn’t easy. Trust me, people talk about him outside of this country. In Spain and France, he is appreciated as a top, top player.”

Gerard Pique
“I have never seen a player as powerful as Rooney – the way he goes past people, the intensity of his play, the runs he makes from the first minute to the last and the shot that he has. World class.”

Arsene Wenger
“Rooney is the biggest English talent I’ve seen since I arrived in England.”

Rio Ferdinand
“I laid eyes on him when he was 16 or 17 years old, and I remember after an England game as well, I said to his mum and dad in the players’ lounge ‘make sure he signs for Manchester United”.

“They looked at me and laughed and thought ‘we have already done that’. What a player. He did it all, he scored a ridiculous amount of goals, scored absolute bangers from anywhere on the pitch, great passer, aggressive, passion, desire, work rate.”

Frank Lampard
“His aggression is one of his big strengths. He has no fear at all. Wayne knows he has the ability, but he has this knack of being able to go out there and not be scared of anyone no matter who he is up against.”

David Moyes
“There was a day when we had him in training. He was only a young boy and we had to set up a small-sided game and Wayne chipped a goalkeeper from near the byeline.

“It was a moment when we all looked at each other and said, ‘Did he really do that? Did that happen?’. We knew it before, but when we saw that happen we all thought ‘there is a real special talent here.”

Gary Neville
“For me he was the best centre-forward I ever saw at Manchester United and ever played with.

“In and out of possession, in the dressing room, the energy every single morning. He was an absolute livewire, street fighter, tough, score goals, assist goals, the best defender, never give in.

“Everything you would want in a footballer he was there, and to me, the best striker I played with because he did everything.”

Joe Cole
“He’s probably the most technically gifted English player I’ve seen. The ‘silent assassin.’ He was just the main man, a star.

“No one could get near him. He was just a super talent.”

Petr Cech
Every time we played against United I had to make sure I was aware every time he had the ball, because he was very unpredictable and very clever. He is a guy who can chase, who can fight, who can run, who is clever with his shot.

“He could score from the halfway line, he could try and chip you if you were too high. That was a challenge I enjoyed.”

Jermain Defoe
“When he came on to the scene, I think I was in the 21s and he trained with us one day, I looked at him and I was like, ‘there’s no way this boy is only 16.

“He made his debut and scored against Arsenal, and then all the goals he’s scored. He was really powerful from a young age.

“The reason why he was so special is that a lot of forwards in and around the box are quite selfish, but Wayne was different because he could do anything.”

Jack Wilshere
“He was an animal. Strong, quick and aggressive. He had an amazing football brain too.”

Sven-Goran Eriksson
“I can tell you that he had to be dragged away from training because he loved to play and practise so much.

“You could see it in his face. ‘Wayne, the bus will be going!’ you had to tell him. I could feel the love he had for the game and that transmitted to the others.”

Ben Olsen
“What I would say about Wayne is he’s football mad. He’s authentic. He was a great leader in the locker room and from my dealings with him, he loves the chess aspect of the game.

“Those principles made him so successful throughout his career and give him a very good foundation. I look fondly on the time we had at DC United. In some ways, he pushed me as a manager – challenging me.

Wayne Rooney ended a 16-year Premier League career on the back of a couple of unspectacular seasons with Manchester United and Everton – but we shouldn’t forget how good England’s record goalscorer was at his peak.

Rooney scored a respectable 10 league goals in his 12 months back at Goodison Park, but none since December.

But this is a player who scored 53 goals in 119 appearances for England. A player who scored 253 goals in 559 appearances for Manchester United, with whom he won 12 major honours. And most importantly, a player who provided fans with some unbelievable memories.

Particularly in his early years, Rooney was one of the most feared strikers in the game. His pace, energy and downright determination to have the ball saw him go on runs where he would bulldoze his way through defenders and score spectacular goals, many of which are still replayed today.

The one common denominator in any goal, of course, is the poor goalkeeper who has to pick the ball out of the back of the net, and there are many around the world who were on the receiving end of Rooney’s talents in front of goal.

First tournament
Switzerland international Jorg Steil was between the posts at Euro 2004 when Rooney burst onto the international scene. The teenager was being linked with every major club in England when he scored his first two major tournament goals against Steil’s Swiss team.

“Wayne Rooney was not really famous at that time,” says Steil. “We spoke about David Beckham and the others, these were the players you knew about.

“When we played against England, Rooney was still a teenager, but after our game Rooney was known all around the world.

“He was a really aggressive player. I remember a situation with a long ball, I came out for it and he left his right foot against me. I was like, ‘What an asshole!’

“But that was how he was and that’s what made him who he is. He was technical, he was fast, and I remember the second goal when he flew forward and scored a goal against my head!

“I was never the type to think too much about the other team, whoever they had. Beckham, Gerrard, Zidane, Totti, it didn’t matter. One player was never a thing for me, but after the game I knew who Wayne Rooney was.”

Impossible to stop
Rooney would go on to sign for Manchester United at the end of that summer and would score spectacular goal after spectacular goal on his way to breaking Sir Bobby Charlton’s record in 2017.

Many Premier League goalkeepers suffered at the hands of Rooney during his first few years at Old Trafford, but few more than Watford’s Richard Lee.

With Ben Foster the club’s No.1 during their first season back in the Premier League, it was left to Lee to stand in against United with Foster, on loan from United, ineligible.

It meant Lee experienced first-hand what Rooney could do in a 4-0 defeat to United in the league at Old Trafford and then a 4-1 defeat in the FA Cup semi-final at Villa Park.

“I was a Man United fan as a kid so in general it was surreal playing against them in general,” Lee says. “Like any player you do your homework and your analysis and I was aware of what Rooney could do.

“The goal he’s scored past me at Villa Park, I don’t think I’ve ever faced a shot quite so hard. He absolutely boomed it in the top corner, and he’s lobbed me at Old Trafford with a beautiful finish.”

Despite doing all the homework in the world, Lee says there are some goals you simply can’t do anything about.

“You base a lot of what you do on percentages. The problem is that goal at Old Trafford is a good example of when you can’t do anything.

“He’s about 15 yards out so as a goalkeeper you come out and try and make yourself as big as you can. That’s what I did but he put it so high that it would have probably dipped over me even if I’d been stood on my line.

“That’s where he’s clever, I think he was aware of what a goalkeeper was going to do. It was like a game of chess.”

Lee was beaten at his near post for the goal in the cup semi-final, something which often leads to a goalkeeper being criticised, but in this case the Watford man felt he could be excused.

“I was beating myself up a bit during the game but when I watched it back I just thought, ‘I don’t know what I could do differently,’” he says.

“My position was good and I just didn’t have enough time to react, it was past me in a split second. I’ve watched it over and over and I just don’t know how he generates that power.

“I kind of made peace with it and accepted there was nothing I could do. I could face that shot 100 times and I don’t see myself saving it.”

‘He had everything’
Another goalkeeper who found out just how deadly Rooney could be was Reading and USA goalkeeper Marcus Hahnemann a season later.

After keeping an impressive clean sheet at Old Trafford on the opening day of the 2007-08 season, Hahnemann looked on course to frustrate Rooney again at the Madejski with the game poised at 0-0 and only 15 minutes to go.

Then Rooney cutely flicked a Carlos Tevez pass into the far corner, giving United the win and leaving the American with little chance of making a save.

“He was strong, he was fast, the skill he had, he had everything,” Hahnemann says. “His power and his willingness to run and close down and then his quality of finishing.

“It was very, very difficult to prepare for. You go over film, but you knew about United and you knew about Rooney.

“He was scoring goals from 16 years of age. I’m coaching high school kids now and you put that in perspective. You’ve got kids who are 17, 18 and you tell them stories about players like him and it’s pretty remarkable the impact he had from a pretty young age.”

Rooney wasn’t the only superstar in United’s team at that time, of course, and Hahnemann laughs recalling the time Reading manager Steve Coppell was preparing the Royals for a game against the then-champions.

“I still remember we were having a team meeting and watching videos of Cristiano Ronaldo and Rooney,” he says.

“Steve Coppell turns to our captain Graeme Murty and goes, ‘Okay Murts, he’s going to be playing on your side so you’re probably going to be marking him the whole game.’

“We were all just laughing because it was just so surreal we were playing against the best players in the world. The combination of Rooney and Ronaldo, you were just like, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me.’”

Hahnemann echoes Lee’s sentiments that you can prepare and prepare for a player and a team, but it could all go out of the window pretty quickly on the pitch against Rooney.

“There’s no way you can prepare. You try and keep it tight and you could have the best game of your life, but there’s nothing you can do sometimes. He’d chase everything down, whether it was a ball from his own team-mate or a back pass.

“I kept a clean sheet against them on the opening day and that’s probably still one of the highlights of my career. I made something like 20 saves, the pressure they put you under was crazy.

“I did dribble past Rooney once by the way! I didn’t mean to, I had nothing else. I was outside the box and was just going to clear it up the line, but he just completely closed me down and the only thing I could do was chop him.

“He slid in to try and block it so I had to cut past him, he goes flying past me and I take a half glance back and he’s already up.

“I cleared the ball and I remember actually apologising to him. I was like, ‘I’m so, so sorry.’ I told him I didn’t mean to do that, but I just couldn’t believe how fast he closed me down.”

It’s fair to say Wayne Rooney probably didn’t apologise for the goal he scored past Hahnemann later that season – or any of the other 207 he scored in the Premier League.

He might not have finished on a high, but anyone who faced him at his peak will always remember just how good he was.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/15-quotes-about-wayne-rooney-man-utd-england/
https://www.planetfootball.com/in-d...ee-gks-on-what-its-like-to-face-wayne-rooney/
 
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He only won preimere league player of the season once. If he was the 3rd best, he would have won it more times.

This is the sort of twisted logic that has people rating Gerrard has head and shoulders above Scholes based on those sort of awards.
 
He was a top player but lacked the professional drive to be near top three in the world in his prime.
 
I’d argue against Kaka. He had such a short shelf life that Rooney was definitely better than him at some stage.
I actually think he was the third best player, touching the top 2, in his no 9 season for us up until his injury
Career wise I'd say Rooney was better than Kaka. But we are talking about them at their peak, and while Kaka's peak didn't last for long it was definitely superior to Rooney's.
 
With all due respect the way the ballon d’or has gone the last 2 years I give that very little credence.

Although he probably wasn’t 3rd in the overall era.
The dodgy ones are the 2010 which should have been won by Iniesta, maybe the 2013 which should've been Robben and last last two years for Lewandowski.

Anyway it was never stoled from Rooney, matter of fact is as good as he was he wasn't ever really in the conversation as a serious candidate.