Ronaldo got the headlines 2006-2008 but for me Rooney was our key player for the majority of 2006-2011, 3rd best in the world or not. He's underrated on here if anything.
Was prime Rooney really the 3rd best player in the world?
- Thread starter MalaysianRed7
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I’d argue against Kaka. He had such a short shelf life that Rooney was definitely better than him at some stage.
I actually think he was the third best player, touching the top 2, in his no 9 season for us up until his injury
This place needs to leave stats alone already, Jesus Christ
No. But he was probably top 3 forward at some point.
Chelsea stat padded a lot of goals that year. They beat some teams by 7 + 9 a few times
Drogba was obviously an absolute beast as well, but Rooney offered a lot more to the team outside of just goals alone.
This was probably uniteds weakest side in a long time losing Ronaldo, but Rooney kept the standards up high al season.
- 2008/2009: Xavi, Iniesta, Kaká and Zlatan were all better then him
- 2009/2010: Xavi, Iniesta, Schneijder and Casillias were all better then him
- 2010/2011: Xavi, Iniesta where all better then him
Real Madrid & Barca during most of 2010s "padded" a lot goals as well. Does it discredit Messi's & Cristiano's achievements by your own logic?
I don't care. Strikers are judged by goals + assists to determine how good they're. Drogba was better than Rooney in 09/10. And he played 1 month in AFCON.
Lewandowski is the best player in the world due to his stats. Noone says Benzema is on same level as him because he "offers more to the team outside of goals."
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I don't disagree and I'm sure I've got a lot of posts from time period revering Xavi over even Messi as he was the glue for the entire Barcelona side at that time and my regard for Robben will show in practically any search done of him linked to my name, but my issue with how Rooney is seen now is that he has had a massive fall from if not grace, then reverence, where nearly anyone else who he was in the company of at the time, have seen their legacy either stabilise or grow and nary a bad word will be said about them, hindsight or not. That makes a lot of posts about Rooney redundant with little to no value because of the recency bias that has nothing to do with his standing when he was revered and one of the untouchables as the others have remained.
I think @harms is right that if he was 3rd, it would have been for a very brief moment in time, but I would still cross-reference with the time period to be sure on that. Irony be damned, that Xavi's legacy and standing grew throughout his career - I'm not sure posts from 2008 have him as bona fide as he obviously became with Spain and Barcelona's joint assaults, so time periods of when Rooney was regarded as whatever are important and need to be factored in.
I agree. Even though I said Wayne wasn’t top 3 in the world, to argue with stats in terms of Rooney and Drogba is so unfair to the former. Rooney’s all round game was just so, so much better than Drogba’s and I don’t think anyone can make the argument that Drogba was ever better than Rooney.
He was absolutely up there and it's not that controversial really. I don't like to get into rating best, second best, third etc, it feels pointless and strange. But he was in that area
Rooney is a really difficult player to discuss for me, I think he was close to the level of Scholes. But inferior to Scholes as a footballer and his career was inferior. He played as a forward so had bigger impacts and headlines but he wasn’t quite as talented as Scholes, no shame in that though.
What is difficult for me is that as much as I rate Scholes as perhaps my favourite ever player, he was unbelievable, I wouldn’t put Scholes in the top three players at any point in that time, yet I’d put him above Rooney for United and as a talent.
Where does that leave Rooney for me, on one hand I’m putting him right next to Scholes which for me is some honour, on the other hand people put him up with Ronaldo and Messi. Some try to claim he was more important than Ronaldo to the 08 team. It’s. Complete nonsense.
As a teenager you could say he’s one of the top 3 most complete teenagers, as a 16 year old in a top league certainly but he was like a grown man at 16. I never saw the absolute elite technique, weight of pass, dribbling, pace although he was quick over 100 metres he lacked the electric pace over ten metres. His touch was often erratic. This is why I’d put him below Scholes because Scholes’s touch and technique was elite and his speed of thought was levels above almost anyone.
Rooney for me never gets close, Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Kaka, Henry, Zlatan, Pirlo etc. They were technically above him. Defenders like Cannavaro and Maldini were above him in there positions too. I feel Rooney is in the discussion with Scholes, Giggs, Totti, Ribery, Drogba, Fabregas, Gerrard, Raul etc as the level below all for different reasons.
No Rooney was never top three or close to the top two, perhaps because he played in the same team as Ronaldo and at a point some people thought he would be better than Ronaldo but Ronaldo was always by far the more talented, Rooney was the more mature.
What is difficult for me is that as much as I rate Scholes as perhaps my favourite ever player, he was unbelievable, I wouldn’t put Scholes in the top three players at any point in that time, yet I’d put him above Rooney for United and as a talent.
Where does that leave Rooney for me, on one hand I’m putting him right next to Scholes which for me is some honour, on the other hand people put him up with Ronaldo and Messi. Some try to claim he was more important than Ronaldo to the 08 team. It’s. Complete nonsense.
As a teenager you could say he’s one of the top 3 most complete teenagers, as a 16 year old in a top league certainly but he was like a grown man at 16. I never saw the absolute elite technique, weight of pass, dribbling, pace although he was quick over 100 metres he lacked the electric pace over ten metres. His touch was often erratic. This is why I’d put him below Scholes because Scholes’s touch and technique was elite and his speed of thought was levels above almost anyone.
Rooney for me never gets close, Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Kaka, Henry, Zlatan, Pirlo etc. They were technically above him. Defenders like Cannavaro and Maldini were above him in there positions too. I feel Rooney is in the discussion with Scholes, Giggs, Totti, Ribery, Drogba, Fabregas, Gerrard, Raul etc as the level below all for different reasons.
No Rooney was never top three or close to the top two, perhaps because he played in the same team as Ronaldo and at a point some people thought he would be better than Ronaldo but Ronaldo was always by far the more talented, Rooney was the more mature.
I actually agree with you aside from the first bit. Over their careers, Iniesta and Xavi shouldn’t even be compared to Wayne, no doubt about that. However, when he managed to drag himself to a whole new level in 2009-10 and 2011-12, was he really inferior to anyone aside from the two at the top? 30 goals a season, topped up with assists, handling the pressure of essentially carrying our attack and relentless work rate, the like I’ve not seen from any attacker since, including the likes of Jamie Vardy.
I think that you are wrong, to me you are overcompensating for a different type of criticism. People used to think that he had the raw talent to challenge Ronaldo and Messi, some even think that he was a better teenager than either of them. But I don't think that at any point a majority thought that Rooney was the third best player in the world if anything he has been consistently scrutinized for not being it. Rooney has been a great player there is no question about that, during his prime he was a top 10 player but his peak was short lived and arguably never in the top 5.
What I would say about Rooney and it may be counter-intuitive is that his prime was actually longer than people think, the same applies to Hazard. We are talking about genuine wonderkids both were playing at a high level against grown men when they were 17 years old and they managed to maintain high standards for 10-11 years which is longer than usual, they both fell off a cliff but that's a different story.
These were perhaps his best two seasons, but I feel he’d finally listened to SAF at this point and started holding his position more. He’d stopped with the relentless workrate which helped him be more productive. But he wasn’t doing that as well as scoring 30 goals.
He had 10 assists that year and my memory of it is that he had become a really good creator for others by that time after struggling to link up well early in his Chelsea career and was just dominating CBs that year. Over their career Rooney was the far better all-around player but Drogba really did improve a ton as a playmaker over time.
Not for me. A lot of Drogbas assists simply came from holding it up and Laying it off for Lampard to knock home from 25 yards.
Drogba would be perfect for this Utd team imo
Oh, don’t get me wrong, not taking anything away from Drogba. He was a constant pain in our backside for years and a huge reason for Chelsea’s dominance in that era. A true nightmare to play against and one of the great PL strikers even though his numbers don’t really show it. But IMO, he was never better than Rooney.
I think he was in the conversation for a couple of years, but more like top 5 in reality (with Xavi/Iniesta 3rd/4th), and top 10 for 4/5 years
Right or wrong would be revealed by the whole regard he had at those times, not now. Was Rooney being discussed as such at the time in the media, on forums, in general perception? Someone who is into deep-diving will give a clear answer to that.
Rooney’s ‘expected/estimated’ all-time standard dropped quite emphatically during his younger years and he was reframed for the now of then rather than having the likes of Di Stefano and Charlton as the bar for him to match or better. The Euro ‘04 Rooney was expected to be the normal Rooney for a while, then it became clear that might be a career high or outlier than his normal and general level and he was assessed accordingly in line with the lowered expectations, which there is no shame in as he basically went from ‘the one’ to ‘just’ a very exciting, top class player amongst his peers. I was involved in a lot of discussions about this at the time and it was an adjusted bar from what he started out as; potentially outdoing Di Stefano as a player was exciting because it was unthinkable even as a suggestion for however many players have come and gone over the decades; that Rooney could even be seen of in that light, however fleeting, is testament to what he achieved at a preposterously young age.
I think his prime(s) themselves were phased and re-framed in certain communities who are into the history of the game or comparing old to new, but in general, I guess it’s seen as the young, wilder player up to the point the Munich injury ruined his explosive game and took him off the trajectory he had.
I don't think there was a definitive 3rd best in the world. It was Ronaldo and Messi plus the rest for a long, long time.
There are definitely periods where he was in the conversation, but there were others when he wasn't. Overall I would say it's not conclusive enough to say he was "3rd best in the world", he didn't separate himself for long enough to earn that kind of mantle. But he was definitely up there and certainly not overrated, most of the time he got ridiculous criticism, whether it be for his lifestyle, early aggression or not reaching the level of Ronaldo after his teenage years.
Which when you look at it now seems spectacularly stupid given RR would kill for Rooney's application and ability up front.
There are definitely periods where he was in the conversation, but there were others when he wasn't. Overall I would say it's not conclusive enough to say he was "3rd best in the world", he didn't separate himself for long enough to earn that kind of mantle. But he was definitely up there and certainly not overrated, most of the time he got ridiculous criticism, whether it be for his lifestyle, early aggression or not reaching the level of Ronaldo after his teenage years.
Which when you look at it now seems spectacularly stupid given RR would kill for Rooney's application and ability up front.
Can remember it took many a long time to admit Ronaldo was the better player what with the World Cup sending off and the "winker" stuff, by the time it was accepted fact Ronaldo was far into the distance.
Spot on, couldn't have put it any better.
What I'd give for a young Wayne Rooney again.
The guy was maybe not top 3 but certainly wasn't far away. People seem to forget how good wazza was.
The guy was maybe not top 3 but certainly wasn't far away. People seem to forget how good wazza was.
I don't understand where you are coming because your post emphasis why I said that you were wrong in your previous post. You are not answering the question about whether he was the third best player and are instead judging his career trajectory. These are two different things, I tend to agree with your description of his career and the general perception but it's off-topic, the question is whether he was at any point the third best player behind Messi and Ronaldo.
Rooney is a tough player to discuss. But he's a really great player for me.
During his peak however, his season was often overshadowed by the likes of Steven Gerrard's peak and Lampard's peak. Not to mention Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and CR7. Even Zlatan, Suarez, Pirlo, Robben can be pulled into the mix.
Rooney does not have a super great one season like what Mo Salah or Lampard did. But Rooney has very good consistency and you can always rely on him as a 10 in his younger years.
The thing about Rooney is he wins games. And you know Man utd would not have won 3 trophies in Rooney's last season without him.
During his peak however, his season was often overshadowed by the likes of Steven Gerrard's peak and Lampard's peak. Not to mention Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and CR7. Even Zlatan, Suarez, Pirlo, Robben can be pulled into the mix.
Rooney does not have a super great one season like what Mo Salah or Lampard did. But Rooney has very good consistency and you can always rely on him as a 10 in his younger years.
The thing about Rooney is he wins games. And you know Man utd would not have won 3 trophies in Rooney's last season without him.
a different question would be does he warrant the title of England’s best ever player?
No, that's still Sir Bobby Charlton.
Possibly. As I didn’t see him in his prime ive only seen the goals not the overall play.
Rooney was probably the most naturally talented English footballer ever but he just didn't look after his body in the way that he needed to to really make the most of that talent long-term. That nasty metatarsal injury cost him a valuable period of development too. He was arguably the best striker in the world between 2009 and 2011 though.
Peak Rooney was definitely top 3 at that point in time.
You cannot break it down simply by numbers and stats, you had to watch the player and see what he brought to the team. At his best he was Manchester United, he carried us at points and not only in a goal scoring sense, he brought so much more than goals alone.
The best teenager you will probably ever see in the PL for his influence in the game with ability/athleticism at that age. But his peak came for us when we needed him most (post Ronaldo) and he stepped up and was incredible. Everything you want from a Manchester United player.
He was by a distance the best player in the best league in Europe. Of course he was top 3.
People claiming he was overrated is a complete nonsense, he was fecking incredible, a player every team feared.
You cannot break it down simply by numbers and stats, you had to watch the player and see what he brought to the team. At his best he was Manchester United, he carried us at points and not only in a goal scoring sense, he brought so much more than goals alone.
The best teenager you will probably ever see in the PL for his influence in the game with ability/athleticism at that age. But his peak came for us when we needed him most (post Ronaldo) and he stepped up and was incredible. Everything you want from a Manchester United player.
He was by a distance the best player in the best league in Europe. Of course he was top 3.
People claiming he was overrated is a complete nonsense, he was fecking incredible, a player every team feared.
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When was peak Rooney?
11/12 for us maybe. RVP was just as good for Arsenal as Rooney for us, so he wasnt undisputed best in the league let alone 3rd best in the world behind Messi and Ronaldo
Then you look at the champions league and Benzema had 7 goals and 5 assists in 10 starts and 1 sub, Kroos had 5 assists and 2 goals in 12 matches for Bayern, while Rooney had 2 goals in 4 games. Xavi...
I did answer in saying I agreed with harms’ assessment that if he was ever that, it was very fleeting; I also stated my regard for Robben, who would’ve always been in the running for me.
I’d say I was expanding on thoughts rather than evading any definitive answer as Rooney has perhaps the most unique perception trajectory I’ve known in a footballer.
Not only RVP but in the PL you also had Yaya Touré and Tevez(between golf sessions). Outside of it you had Ribéry, Ozil, Robben, Neuer, Xavi, Iniesta, Lahm, Muller or Dani Alves.
With all due respect the way the ballon d’or has gone the last 2 years I give that very little credence.
Although he probably wasn’t 3rd in the overall era.
Messi and Ronaldo have dominated football for a long time now, there have never been a clear third place but a handful of players that fall into the bracket which at a point Rooney was part of, if I had to pick one player as my third place it would be Xavi.
Good shout, I'd like to do that myself actually haha.
He was only really as good as Manchester United was.
When we were the best team in the world - Rooney as the "third best player in the world" wasn't sounding nonsensical. This was in 2007-2008.
When United were beaten and were no more the best team in the world - Rooney was no more seen as a top 3 best player in the world.
When we were the best team in the world - Rooney as the "third best player in the world" wasn't sounding nonsensical. This was in 2007-2008.
When United were beaten and were no more the best team in the world - Rooney was no more seen as a top 3 best player in the world.
He was. He literally was, being voted Players' and Fans' Player of the Year ahead of Drogba. The latter only overcame him in the last few games (including a hat-trick in a 8:0 trashing of Wigan) with Rooney struggling with an injury since April. That's not to say that Drogba wasn't amazing that year, he was and Chelsea were a machine... but Rooney was better.