ain't no one care about group stages. They are most certainly not up there
Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch
- Thread starter VanDeBank
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I love the way he passes the ball.
Just the right amount of forward ball. The one you have options with. The one that keeps the game flowing.
Our group of players couldn't even execute that. It's always straight to the feet or two inches behind.
The way some people were talking about his performance I was expecting a lot better than this (obviously cannot see everything in this video).
DVB is more technically gifted than both McT and Fred. Just because he doesn't "run around" as much doesn't mean he can't offer anything to the team. It's our system (or lack of) which is why DVB has been seen as a relative failure. He's not a counter attacking player. Put him in a team that moves the ball forward at pace and I'm sure DVB would show he'd be worth more to the team than both McFred and even Matic now that his legs have gone.
What were you expecting exactly?
He's a good functional midfielder who does the simple things of control pass and move very well.
He'll do well for any team that just wants control in the midfield. We tend to want more individual action from our midfielders so if you can't ping long balls or drive at the opponents box you're not welcome.
Yes but hes not that good at it. I love midfielders like that, its exactly what we miss, but he looks mid table at it.
Which is fine, but then why are we so reluctant to sell him and bring in a midfielder that we will actually play? Considering how dire Fred, Scott and Nemamja usually are these days. That's the most baffling part for me, we are unwilling to play him but then we are unwilling to sell him as well
Why do you think we are getting offers from anyone to buy him? And even if we are, we probably expect to get at least as much as we paid for him.
I haven't misconstrued anything I know the point you're tying to make, your wording made it sound like I said all coaches that don't play him are "certifiably stupid". I said Solskjaer and Rangnick are fools for not giving him one opportunity at cm, given its one of the weakest positions and a problem on the pitch. I've already explained why that's not the case with international coaches or Carrick yet you keep on bringing it up. Carrick was in charge for 3 games ffs.
I'm amazed at how many people seem to have so much trust in our coaching staff that they seem to think "if VdB couldn't get playing time it's because he isn't good enough". Do you ever think that perhaps our coaching staff was wrong. This is like saying "If the England managers didn't pick Carrick then he wasn't good enough" while we all know how wrong that was not to pick him. Bottom line is we bought VdB as a player who just finished 12th in Ballon d'Or voting and for some reason he was never given a chance. I'm not saying that he is our best midfielder and he should be starting every game. I'm saying we don't know how good or bad he is, but from the little we have seen of him, he seemed good and I have no idea why he wasn't given a fair chance. I'd get it if McFred were lighting it up and dominating the midfield every game. But obviously they haven't been. VdB should have at least been rotated in for some games. I'm not surprised to see that in his first full game for Everton that he was one of the best players on the field...
Yesterday when I checked my Estonian Betsafe liiga for Cl, they were 4th here right in front of Liverpool and Real Madrid.
This is a fairly reasonable position. I think lots of players would (and do) struggle with our lack of cohesion as a unit. I don't think all of our players are as average as they look week in week out.
I just think people presume he isn't good enough because he doesn't get picked for us, it's easy to compute that than our coaching staff keep making the same mistake.
The Everton loan should settle this argument. I'm positive his loan will show that he's better than McFred
when did this happen? I'm pretty sure he didn't. I agree he should have been given more minutes or just sell
"He has never actually been great" - I agree with that statement if you take that literally. But it seems to be a criticism towards van de Beek. Has any of Fred, McTominay, Matic ever been "great" for us? At this point I really doubt this is the reason he was not playing.
Unless I missed some big story, this whole "he must be shite at training" theory was invented because nobody can really explain why he's not been given any proper chance.
Do you think it's fair to make such definitive statement considering how little we really know about his level? 75 mins played in the league for us this season.
Fred was a disaster when he came here, far worse than Donny who can be labeled as "average", and look at Fred now - seems undroppable! Have we not learned players deserve a chance to show what they're really made of?
Bingo.
How players do at Ajax should really not be a benchmark for United. Tadic was maybe a tad above average for Southampton and has been arguably Ajax best player for years. Daley Blind wasn't horrible at United, but also clearly not good enough and their new superstar frontman Haller was a pile of trash for West Ham.
It's a completely different game we play here in the Netherlands. Having said that, Donny surprised me at Everton last game, he looked quite good. Hope ge can keep it up, because he does look like an adorable cartoon character that you just want to pinch in the cheek.
It's a completely different game we play here in the Netherlands. Having said that, Donny surprised me at Everton last game, he looked quite good. Hope ge can keep it up, because he does look like an adorable cartoon character that you just want to pinch in the cheek.
I suppose saying he's never been great is necessarily a criticism and the phrase is figurative. i.e. the expectation isn't that he's capable of greatness but rather that he's a good player for us, but as yet his showings have never reached that in all his minutes, although the usual asterisks are attached that stop me short of saying he couldn't turn it around or is just a poor player.
The training theory is just that, a theory, but it's kinda logical right. How can you have this guy playing superbly in training but then nobody wants to play him. That's kinda farfetched compared to him not impressing for whatever reasons. Whether they're physical, footballing, personality, adjustment to the club, god knows.
But whatever it is he hasn't convinced two managers he should play. What can you take from the sequence of events expect that the managers don't see him as meriting a place, if we want to rephrase it away from training, it is just factual to state that by whatever mechanisms there are prior to matchday he falls foul of them. Now people try to blow a hole in this by saying "well how can we trust the managers", but actually managers have a degree of self-preservation that makes this difficult to reconcile. Hard to imagine not lumping in a player on the sidelines you have any degree of hopes for.
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at that last sentence.I also hope he can keep it up, ton of posts in here slamming McFred for lack of consistency and then drooling over Donny after 1 game. We need to see if Leeds was a one off or if he can maintain that level because if he can then he is certainly a player who should be getting regular minutes for us next season.
Yes, I know they have but we've been absolutely awful, especially in midfield, so bad that Solskjaer got fired, and Rangnicks results haven't been any better, that's my point.
If we where playing well and had a midfield that wasn't getting dominated practically every week then I wouldn't even be having this debate.
As it stands, the decisions they have made on our midfield have been horrendous so it's perfectly logical that fans are going to be questioning their judgement.
Wait! How the hell did Lampard get the Everton job?!?!
Love it. It's the speed of thought and the 1/2 touch passing. He doesn't hang onto it for ages, just keeps it flowing.
You can see in this video alone how he can perfectly handle the physical nature of the PL.
We play Fred in midfield FFS, how dare they talk about that
In the «Everton compilation» I observe he is better when he has more time, but also that he is a little bit slow when moving the ball; he lacks explosiveness. I think he falls through when exposed for the highest level (tempo and tight pressure).
DVB have some of the same weaknesses as Odegaard (Arsenal), but doesn’t have the same extreme ball handling technique, and level of work rate to compensate for that. I’ll be very very surprised if we ever see DVB as a regular in the United shirt. I actually will be surprised if we see him in the United shirt again or playing regular at top-4 in PL.
DVB have some of the same weaknesses as Odegaard (Arsenal), but doesn’t have the same extreme ball handling technique, and level of work rate to compensate for that. I’ll be very very surprised if we ever see DVB as a regular in the United shirt. I actually will be surprised if we see him in the United shirt again or playing regular at top-4 in PL.
Yeah, this is the correct opinion. Makes perfect sense to write off his career off *checks notes* the compilation of a single game after he hasn't played for 2 years.
And yeah, he's definitely a bum compared to Scotland's CB McTominay.
His passing style and other movements remind me a lot of Tom Cleverley.
Yes!!! You understood me correctly. I definitely write him off when talking about being one of the best midfielders in the world. He’ll be 25y soon and hasn’t proved much compared to other midfielders at the same age or even younger midfielders.
He could of course reach the level of Fred and McT and become a descent PL player or a key player for a mid table club
Sorry, he was 28th. The only midfielders ahead of him were Winajldum, De Bruyne, De Jong and B Silva
Ballon d'Or 2019 results revealed - ProSoccerTalk | NBC Sports
That was his position in balon d'Or
Oh, gotcha. Yeah...Im not sure why I had 12th in my head. My point still remains the same though...
McFred runs around a lot more because their positioning is bad, anticipation is inexistant and football IQ is low. So they have to compensate for never being there at the right moment.
28th in the Ballon d'Or? Hard to believe that has even come up. Surely when you get to the 28th "best" player that year it is more nominal than anything else. It's more of a "hey Ajax played well this year, let's nominate a few of them." Seems to border on meaningless to be honest given how few games it is based on and the accolade itself. It's also fairly self evident we thought he'd be good based on Ajax.
I think the problem is, Ole doesn't see him as proper CM/DM, while it seems Rangnick prefer his midfielders to be hard presser/hardworkers like McFred.
That's the thing, he's a proper CM that's hardworking..
Very misleading (and incorrect) post.
VDB played about 20 minutes in one pre season game and 45 minutes in the other after coming back from injury and missing the euros.
That's not match fitness. LVG even bypassed Cillessen who had played +5 games after coming back from injury citing match fitness.
Holland drew both Spain (friendly) and Italy (nations league). VDB wasn't just "okay'. He scored the only Dutch goal in both games and against Italy he was the 2nd highest rated player on the pitch according to an Italian outlet.
Before that international break it wasn't obvious VDB would never make the team cause he did okay against that Turkish side and Palace and it was only October.
After that, De Boer liked him so much he used him off the bench despite not playing regularly. LVG didn't. Different managers, different stripes.
Why would De Boer start United's bench player over midfielders that play week in and week out and play in the CL knockouts?
The training theory doesn't sound logical to me. Or at least not any more logical or probable than him having a break out with Ole who refused to play Donny as he never wanted him in the squad. Those are just theories - impossible to prove or disprove so I'm not arguing it really. But based on what I saw he seems like a guy who wants to play football - otherwise he would've stayed at the club like Lingard for example. I can't imagine him being poor in the training because he seems quite energetic when on the pitch, and technically he's much better than Fred or McTominay.
True when you look at Ole in isolation, but then you have to come up with some kind of contortion to explain the RR decision too. I don't see how an argument and then very preemptive transfer process are more likely than two managers seeing him and thinking he's not for me. One relies on these extracurricular activities and the other is what managers are paid to do, make footballing decisions. But that's just my take.