Exactly I don’t think anyone is saying he’s prime viera but he’s better than what we have and should have been given a chance. I’ll genuinely never understand why he was never given a chance a run anything it makes zero sense.
Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch
- Thread starter VanDeBank
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Exactly I don’t think anyone is saying he’s prime viera but he’s better than what we have and should have been given a chance. I’ll genuinely never understand why he was never given a chance a run anything it makes zero sense.
This is a solid point, although McT looked like a Yaya Toure/Schweinsteiger hybrid the last times we played Leeds.
Wasnt a personal bash at you buddy. Yep realise two managers have overlooked him. I dont think thats his fault though. Bruno pretty much plays every game in Donnys best position, even though bruno never really looks good being innthe same team as ronaldo, for utd and Portugal. But thats besides the point.
Our central midfield is so average that utd have to play two enfocers in mcfred. Also they need to shield maguire and all of his shortcomings.
If we had a very good midfielder i.e. Rice for example i could see Donny starting alongside him and playing a 8 or 6 with bruno playing the 10.
We need a fernandinho or kante in their prime to help with our midfield issues. Get a CM like that in and Donny could easily fit into that midfield for utd.
Makes no sense to me either. To be fair to Ralf, maybe he thought the return of Pogba would leave us stacked in central midfield? Plus McT played very well in our first few matches under Rangnick, which probably confused matters.
The real mystery is how few chances VdB got when Pogba was injured and McT/Fred/Matic were all putting in shocking performances on the regular (especially McT/Matic).
Yeah that's the part that really annoyed me with both Ole & Ralf. I could maybe understand if Pogba had been fit but wasn't
It’s so frustrating that each new manager has to learn the hard way that playing Pogba in central midfield will always give the opposition a load of great chances to score. Do none of them own a television?
There is absolutely zero evidence to support this narrative, quite the opposite in fact, as both managers have praised his professionalism.
Even if it was true, what does it matter?
Genuine question, would you prefer a player who looked like a world beater in training but then completely bottled it on match day, or the opposite, a player who can't really get motivated for training but always turned it on on match day?
For me, I'd take the latter all day long, sport is as much about mentality/confidence as it is about technical ability.
If McTominay and Fred are busting a gut in training and putting up great numbers then fair play to them, but, as I said, it counts for nothing if they go out and get completely dominated practically every match day.
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Trouble is we only play Leeds twice a season. The rest of the time he plays like Toure's dad.
So its one game and its against Leeds. One of the best and only fantastic performances we got from the McTomminay and Fred partnership was against Leeds last season. And to be the level of CM that Manchester United aspire to have starting on a weekly basis you're going to need to put in performances like that most weeks, else we should be looking to improve with another player.
All that said its good to see him get his chance and now start to take it on loan. He's playing CM rather than behind the striker so we can see transferable skills to if he was playing in our team and I think one of the best elements of the loan move, especially if the Leeds performance is an indication of who will be playing most often... Is playing next to a proper DM who is actually good at DM things, something we dont have with Matic in his current state rather than at his best 10 years ago.
We could see against Leeds and hopefully for the majority of games for Everton how DVB + DM (Alan) can have an effect on the game. With this particular game Leeds had plenty more of the ball than Everton but they also had a 3rd man in central midfield vs the two of VDB and Alan. And the duo were still able to play the passes to get their team going and battle for the ball making it harder for Leeds to convert that ball % into good chances and goals. In fact Everton had 3 times as many shots as Leeds as well as winning 3-0
A very positive start, hopefully its going the exact same way in 5-10 more games because if it is VDB needs to stay and play here.
All that said its good to see him get his chance and now start to take it on loan. He's playing CM rather than behind the striker so we can see transferable skills to if he was playing in our team and I think one of the best elements of the loan move, especially if the Leeds performance is an indication of who will be playing most often... Is playing next to a proper DM who is actually good at DM things, something we dont have with Matic in his current state rather than at his best 10 years ago.
We could see against Leeds and hopefully for the majority of games for Everton how DVB + DM (Alan) can have an effect on the game. With this particular game Leeds had plenty more of the ball than Everton but they also had a 3rd man in central midfield vs the two of VDB and Alan. And the duo were still able to play the passes to get their team going and battle for the ball making it harder for Leeds to convert that ball % into good chances and goals. In fact Everton had 3 times as many shots as Leeds as well as winning 3-0
A very positive start, hopefully its going the exact same way in 5-10 more games because if it is VDB needs to stay and play here.
Like I said in the above post will be intrigued to see how he fares when he faces City & Chelsea at Goodison and obviously the hostility of a fervent Merseyside Derby at Anfield
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Absolutely, but my point was that Leeds may be the worst opponent to judge a midfielder's performance.
It’s bizarre though...McT, Pogba and Bruno all look like they need a rest. VDB could genuinely have filled in those gaps
When you say CB ‘is absolutely where he fecking played’, it sounds like it was his best position, not like he mostly played further up and was pulled back for one season because of lack of options and did an ok job, like it sounds from some Ajax sources.
Definitely agree with the bolded and last two paragraphs,
Certainly need that rock in the middle, maybe VDB can flourish with a bit more freedom.
No one really knows of it is true, your right.
But there's a difference between praising someone's professionalism and praising someone's ability.
There's got to be a reason why he hasn't had a chance and why he is on loan. If it isn't ability (and I don't think it is) and it isn't attitude, then it has to be aptitude.
Maybe he just doesn't fit in to our play, and maybe he just hasn't adapted his game to suit that?
Never said CB, and my source is my own eyes, I watched alot of Ajax's games those few seasons as they were a wonderful team to watch, still are.
Plus, even if you think he did 'just an ok' job in central midfield then that would still be a level up from Fred, McTominay and Matic at the moment, who get completely dominated practically every match, that's the very reason some fans are getting so wound up about the DVB situation. It would be a totally different story if any of our current midfielders were actually performing.
One of those reasons could actually be that our coaching staff are completely clueless, and until our performances start improving, especially in midfield then that possibility remains.
As it stands right now, our midfield is getting completely embarrassed on a consistent basis so it's hard to make a case to argue anything other than the fact that the VDB situation had been handled very very poorly.
Agree, in hope he enjoys and does fantastic.
That is clutching at straws, as we have now had a huge amount of staff both with Ole and RR, and both have not taken to VDB,
I find it hard to believe every coach we have had is clueless!
And again, our midfield isn't exactly being embarrassed, that's hyperbolic and dramatising things quite a bit.
Is it the best midfield ever? No, could it be improved? Without doubt, but to say we are being dominated game after game is inherently wrong.
Ok, my apologies, McTominay had a decent game against Burnley a few weeks ago when we beat them 3-1, which of course has now cemented his place in the team for the rest of the season and had some fans calling him a future captain.
Was reading one of the Evertonian forums, 95% of them are giving raving reviews of him, most are wishing they sign him before the end of the season.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but there isn't a great deal of difference between the quality of our midfield and theirs (bar Bruno). Why did he not get consistent amount of minutes to prove he was failing because it seems without all the talk and pressure, hes doing a good job at Everton ffs.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but there isn't a great deal of difference between the quality of our midfield and theirs (bar Bruno). Why did he not get consistent amount of minutes to prove he was failing because it seems without all the talk and pressure, hes doing a good job at Everton ffs.
If Donny plays like that the rest of the season, and he'll most likely improve, I think we should offer Fred, McT or VdB to Everton for the same price. Who do you think they would choose? My money would be on VdB and it would be an easy decision. I think all the other clubs would choose the same. I think it's quite possible only United would choose Fred and McT ahead of VdB. This is indicative of why we are in the predicament we are in.
I'm still amazed we couldn't even give him half a chance in a season and a half.
Fecking hell.
Fecking hell.
Different managers different styles. Bruce is not going to want DVB. Lampard does because he himself was a top class midfield player. DVB knows how to pass and move. He is not going to play like what the pundits in the PL expect.
But what surprised me was RR not wanting him.
But what surprised me was RR not wanting him.
Oh, "good performance" Good, because we're in need of those desperately.
I just fail to see the understand the that he hasn't "shown his promise" despite barely been playing ever since he came here. For example, someone like Maguire hasn't shown his promise becausse we brought him to be our VVD, but he turned out to be our Johnny Evans. Donny hasn't shown anything, good or bad, because he simply hasn't played.
And I'm reluctant to take the word of two managers - one who has failed spectacularly and promptly got sacked and one who isn't performing great as a sign that Donny isn't up to it. If it was Pep Guardiola or Klopp, I'd udnerstand your belief in them, but come on - let's wait till Rangnick actually shows us something for us to have a belief in him. Just because he is our manager doesn't mean he is infallible and his word - gospel.
Interesting take.
I will be following Donny closely, because I find his situation at United utterly bizarre.
The club won't pay the licence fee.
Hopefully he plays regularly and can just get our money back from Everton. He's wasting his time gambling that the new manager will fancy him.
Garner should have his spot in the squad next season.
Garner should have his spot in the squad next season.
CB was of course a typo on my part, sorry about that, but I guess you guessed that?
I only saw a four or five games of him at Ajax, so I base my understanding on a few Ajax followers who said that he seldom played CM at Ajax before his last season there, but that he would play a 10 something between a 10 and an 8, and that was his strongest position. I’ve never seen him play like a 6 or a pivot 8 to a very high level, so if you have, I respect that. It wasn’t my impression from hearing others.
I think it probably says something that not only Rangnik, Carrick and Solskjær have deemed him less useful in these positions than Fred, McTom and Matic, but also that neither Van Gaal nor Frank de Boer found him better than the current Dutch options. Of course his lack of game time affects this, but at the same time, that Dutch midfield have not pulled up trees and I guess he’d have been played more if he was head and shoulders above his alternatives. It’s a long list of knowledgeable people who for some reason have thought ‘we can do fine without Donny in midfield even if our current midfield is not the best’.
Not that I set own judgement completely aside, but I’d be careful to say that anyone preferring Ferd or McTominay must be mad.
VDB and Martial doing well will confirm our place as the undoubted and unquestioned joke/banter club.
Theoretically what you're saying makes sense, but the problem is VDB hasn't always turned it on on matchday. Far from it. The best that can be said is that he has not had many chances to do so and was a good player for Ajax, but for Man Utd he hasn't turned anything on. He certainly hasn't turned his managers on!
He's turned up whenever he's been used as a CM in the sitting 2, followed by him getting dropped indefinitely the next game, that's the whole point behind the fan's frustration regarding him at the moment. It's not 'juvenile nonsense' as you like to put it, it's a bizarre situation that deserves scrutiny.
Nope you are right just 80% of the games
He is better than McFred, there I've always said this.
What is nonsense is saying that the manager is a fool for not playing a player you believe should play. He's in a pretty good position to make a decision whether we like it or not, that kind of terminology is not right. Just because you're not happy with results doesn't mean you should have free reign to throw around insults at the manager without it being pulled up. Question the manager in a decent way not like a teenager throwing a tantrum and then your view retains a lot more credibility. It's not unreasonable to believe VDB should have more opportunity but there's a way to go about it.
The 'mighty' Ajax. Leagues above the likes or Fred. I hear they are an elite European side nowadays.
If we were a successful team currently then I'd respect the decision a lot more, but we're a long way off that reality. If you don't give a gifted centre midfielder a small run of games once in your entire tenure when centre midfield is one of your weakest positions and a problem on the pitch, then it will be called out for it is, foolish.
I'm not sure which Ajax followers you saw, but he never played anything else than as a CM, usually as an 8