Not giving a talented (and expensive) player for a small run of games in your weakest position once to get an honest assessment of him is what I consider foolish.
Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch
- Thread starter VanDeBank
- Start date
draws against anything other than top clubs are losses, otherwise we wouldn't be a top club anymoreDraws are now losses?
I gathered that.
You also said RR was a fool, which given he is universally respected within the game for bringing structure to clubs and for his achievements in doing so, seems more than a little unlikely to me. Unless he somehow is a fool but miraculously blundered his way to success across multiple clubs leading to employment at Manchester United.
You're talking absolute juvenile nonsense just because the man isn't playing one player you want him to play. Pretty much the equivalent of throwing your toys out of the pram.
100%. Hoping he can really prove himself once given a run of games. Still can’t believe we never have him a proper chance. Absolutely crazy.
Are you talking about that game where he was forced to play with a bunch of kids and a geriatric Mata. Said game in which he basically played alone in midfield and even so performed better than McFred? I'll never understand Donny haters. Regardless if he is the best or worst player in the world, its' absolutely insane that anyone would say he has been given a fair shot at this team. Not a single run of games, brief 5 min cameo every 5 games and whenever he was given a start it was one of those two things:
1. Performs great. Deserves to start, but promptly benched in the next game
2. Forced to play with kids and fellow bench players who haven't played once together. Is average, but that is to be expected.
In turn we keep giving McFred chance after chanc eand we still keep losing games left and right and getting dominated by relegation fodders. But yes... Donny has been given a chance... in another alternate reality, maybe.
What chance was he properly given? 5 mins here and there. Starts with second team players? A performance against Young Boys where he was a best player and dragged of at half because Wan Bisaka was sent off? The performance where he came on and nearly saved Ole’s job before Maguire was sent off? Yeah he has had a fair shake here…
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Was I referring to his whole career? Or did I say he was a fool for not giving DVB one proper opportunity at cm before loaning him out? A point you haven't argued. Which part is nonsense?
It's just one game. But what a great 90 minutes. He is going back into the Dutch national team if this continues. While I support Ralf, VDB not given a chance under him baffles me. You want possession, comtrol, press-resistent midfielders, seriously, VDB is "just a girl standing in front of of a boy, asking him to love her".
This is what surprised me too. The only player who can pass and move. I also noticed that he pressed his man and denied the space for that part of the pitch. The more he plays the more fitter he is going to be.
RR is supposed to be a pressing coach.
I wonder if RR really has that much authority over the team?
I think the problem is if you base team selection on training only, the guy who runs the fastest for the longest duration is the one who will catch the eye more. Not the one who can play smart and make the team gel.
We battered them 5-1 this season with Fred and Mctominay in the team and without needing VDB at all so if we can't beat them now it's a coaching/management problem, and maybe a lack of motivation from the players since they know that RR is only an interim. The point is VDB playing in a winning team against Leeds for Everton doesn't prove that he's better than our other midfielders, but a lot of posters in here are making it into a big deal.
As another poster said, it seems some people are just looking for any excuse to bash the club, there are enough legitimate reasons to criticise the club without having to invent things.
Fred and McTominay are not going to get into a side like Ajax. DVB was a regular. Fred can be made use of in some teams. DVB is a better player than either of them.
Do we have an Allan CDM in our team to play Donny in a double pivot?
This is flawed logic, Haller who flopped badly at West Ham is a star there. Davy Klaasen who flopped at Everton is a star there. Do you think those guys are better than the players at united? Lots of players who flopped elsewhere do great there because of the well drilled system which focuses on the collective rather than individuals. You are arguing that Fred and Mctominay wouldn't get into the Ajax team, but we know for a fact that VDB couldn't get into the united team ahead of those two, under two different managers with drastically different philisophies. So I can just as easily argue that this proves that Fred and Mctominay are better than him.
He's too intelligent for his own good to play for United.
His quick thinking, reading of the play, playing one twos, and constant movement is too much for ball hoggers like McTominay, Fred and Matić who all need eternity to before releasing the ball.
His quick thinking, reading of the play, playing one twos, and constant movement is too much for ball hoggers like McTominay, Fred and Matić who all need eternity to before releasing the ball.
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Was watching Motd and he got some good praise, looked tidy throughout the game and played a key role in the first goal, I am really happy for him, not a bad start for someone who was getting a few minutes at most here, hope to see more against other teams but with that performance, I expect to see him in their starting lineup for the next few games, hope frank can do him what he did to Mount, excellent turnaround..
Why does anyone who thinks that a player hasn't shown his promise a hater?
I like Donny, just haven't ever seen anything to suggest he is the answer to our problems or better than what we have.
Obviously I'm not the only one to think this also, we have had two managers think likewise (three of you count Carrick), I'd wager they know a thing or two about football.
Though i'd leave this here...
DvDB highlight reel Everton
This suggests to me he can play in the PL if we ubderstand how to leverage his strengths. Faster transitions, less loss of posession than some of our midfield have shown themselves capable of providing.
His physicality does not seem to be an issue at all.
DvDB highlight reel Everton
This suggests to me he can play in the PL if we ubderstand how to leverage his strengths. Faster transitions, less loss of posession than some of our midfield have shown themselves capable of providing.
His physicality does not seem to be an issue at all.
I think the praise on here is a bit OTT. If we hadn’t been so shocking recently / he’d played regular at United before coming to us it would be classed simply as a good performance, which it was.
It's not flawed logic. It's shows the stupidity of the PL. Unless it's the very top clubs the PL teams lose to most other European teams that plays football.
Yes on BBC
Keep bashing donny. Because what we have at Utd at present is so much better.
The video posted a page or two back about the positions and spaces donny was taking up and our players failing to find him so what a mess our team is on the pitch.
If we get ETH as manybwant, Donny will be at Utd and playing regularly. Plastic fans write one of players off at four starts in 18 months
Look at the post match analysis from Jenas and Murphy (neither of whom I particularly like) and you'll see that Donny could not possibly be worse than the midfield as it is now. This guy will never be the flashy player everyone loves, he won't be a Lampard, Gerrard (washes mouth out with soap), Beckham or Scholes but lots of great teams have players who fly a little under the radar (the Milners and Hendersons) who are vital to what the team does
It will affect us only positively if he plays well. If we get Ten Haag or another manager who wants to utilise him we will have proof he can play in the premier league. If the player does not want to stay we will get a good fee and recoup most of what we payed for him.
These players aren't "stars".
Haller was widely criticized for a long time until he scored 10 champions league goals.
Davy Klaassen is on the bench.
VDB was a good player for them, but not a "star" either.
Ajax have 3 players that would walk into this team, Alvarez, Anthony and Mazraoui.
Ziyech, De Jong and De Ligt would also walk into this team. Let's stop pretending Ajax don't have good players and they're just magic.
I think of you actually read my posts you would see I'm not writing him off,
But there is a reason he is out on loan at a team currently struggling, he doesn't fit United right now, he's not better than what we have,
Two managers have thought the same, so realistically do these people that are saying Donny is better than what we have consider themselves more knowledgeable than the coaches and managers at the club?
Tbf many fans have been moaning for years about all kinds of stupid decisions made at the club, and with hindsight have been proven right.
Fans here, who insist that DvB didn't get a chance because Fred and McT are better than him (why the f..ck did we sign DvB then? Also - where is evidence?) – you really deserve the state United is in. Sorry, but you do. Not sure why the rest of us have to suffer, however
I agree the club has made mistakes, but we have had (essentially) three managers and multiple coaches, all of whom haven't fully trusted Donny,
So in this instance I'm inclined to believe it's moreso Donny's ability/lack of adaptation that's the reason rather than mistakes by manager/coaching staff.
If you genuinely think DVB couldn't offer us more than what we currently get from McTominay, Fred and Matic then you must be watching a completely different game to me.
I could accept your point about fans being arrogant and wrongly thinking they know better than Solskjaer or Ragnick if what those managers did with our midfield was actually working but it clearly isn't so obviously fans are going to try and analyse what's going wrong.
Even if you've gone down the same bizarre narrative, like Solskjaer and Ragnick, that DVB can't play as an out and out central midfielder (which I can only assume is because neither of them watched him play at Ajax because that's exactly where he fecking played) then the argument still doesn't hold up because McTominay, Fred or Matic are getting completely dominated in that role anyway practically every week.
I could accept the fact the those 3 don't really offer much in terms of creativity if they were any good defensively but they're not, so what exactly are they offering us that DVB couldn't?
VDB hasn't offered us more than the existing players.
Evidently he hasn't offered more during training also, otherwise he'd be starting more. The fans view is too simplistic and to littered with emotion. The managers make the calls, and so far VDB hasn't made the cut in any managers decisions, that to me speaks volumes.
The simple fact is he hasn't adapted or possibly been good enough since being at United, that's the reason he has been sent out on loan, to get game time and hopefully adapt and be better for when he gets back.
It's simple really, because van de Beek hasn't been world class when given 5 minutes every 2 weeks, he's not getting into our team.
We're waiting for next Xavi and until we find him, apparently we will continue with McFred.
We're waiting for next Xavi and until we find him, apparently we will continue with McFred.
Imagine him having this sort of influence when they play City albeit in a losing cause. That should make us think Ten Hag has to be brought in this summer so we can see the best of him
DVB will keep playing, and get better and better.
He’s going to have a lot of people eating their words, and our coaches looking baffled
I can’t believe genuinely bought that ‘not physical enough for the PL’ excuse
He’s going to have a lot of people eating their words, and our coaches looking baffled
I can’t believe genuinely bought that ‘not physical enough for the PL’ excuse
To be fair most didn't, DVB has mostly got good fan support and must are rooting for him to do good now.DVB will keep playing, and get better and better.
He’s going to have a lot of people eating their words, and our coaches looking baffled
I can’t believe genuinely bought that ‘not physical enough for the PL’ excuse
Let’s be honest. That’s not an impressive highlight reel at all. At least half the CMs in the league are putting in performances like that, week in and week out.
The fact it’s still a lot better than an average McT performance is the issue here.
The fact it’s still a lot better than an average McT performance is the issue here.
I’m just pleased the guy is finally getting a proper chance, hope he grabs it with both hands.
Maybe our pigheaded management might finally realise technique > runners
So true.