He's played 4 games in a row for the first time in almost years, this is like a pre season for him. I don't get why people are still questioning his ability, he clearly is a great player, just needs minutes and game time. Judge him after 10 games.
Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch
- Thread starter VanDeBank
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How is he "clearly" a "great" player? I think both parts of that statement are within the realms of reasonable debate which suggests its not all that clear.
It begs the question of what your standard for greatness is, and if it was that clear most people would find it evident which is not the case.
I for one do not see greatness, I would say he's an okay player and he's put in a collection of okay performances for Everton. Hopefully there is better to come, as like you allude to he needs more football to find some proper sharpness. Then a reasoned conclusion can come but for now I think it's more accurate to keep an open mind while the evidence comes in than decide he's great based on little.
He is going to need another loan or to be sold this summer. Not good enough to be a starter for us, doesn’t want to be a squad guy.
Not sure why being "solid" is not good enough here. You need players that are solid in your squad.
Expect more from fans of this club, especially when the current midfielders throw in a great performance for one game(and everybody cooms themselves like morons), and then drop five Championship level performances, then a good performance and its rinse and repeat, and then everybody gets confused as to why we're struggling for top 4 with the quality we have.
Expect more from fans of this club, especially when the current midfielders throw in a great performance for one game(and everybody cooms themselves like morons), and then drop five Championship level performances, then a good performance and its rinse and repeat, and then everybody gets confused as to why we're struggling for top 4 with the quality we have.
I get the argument about it still being pre-season for him and the excuses about rustiness but having watched almost every minute of his time at Everton he looks to be a significantly poorer player than Fred or McTominay. I am not saying our midfield is great but I am seeing nothing in Donny that is even as good as what we already have never mind better and I doubt he is going to keep his place in the Everton team for much longer unless he starts to show more in games because they are in real danger of relegation and cannot afford a passenger.
Which is clearly an opinion shared by two managers as well, and yet some people seem to find it beyond the realms of possibility that he's just not as good as the other options. Usually accompanied by gross exaggerations about how bad McFred are because there's nothing really to bolster the point from VDB's side. Still, he's got the rest of the season to impress, who knows.
you must be joking right? He's been the best midfielder in all of his matches there(even the one where he played poor), comments made by Lampard also suggest he's nowhere close to being benched. But according to you a midfielder that is able to neutralize De Bruyne isn't even good enough for Everton or close to Fred or McTominay
.No he doesn't
I wouldn't say significantly poorer than either of McFred, but we still haven't seen any compelling evidence from his performances to suggest he should have been starting over them. He has a wider passing range than both, just, but he isn't anywhere near as physically imposing and that is what this current United team need more.
This isn't to say that the style of play that next seasons manager will try to implement might not suit Donny though. He may still have a future here.
This isn't to say that the style of play that next seasons manager will try to implement might not suit Donny though. He may still have a future here.
All reports indicating that Everton want to make VDB permanent signing, VDB would like to leave Man Utd and Man Utd is willing to let him go.
Hence, it's almost certain that VDB is gone and will sign for Everton in the summer for $40 mil (guesstimate
)
Hence, it's almost certain that VDB is gone and will sign for Everton in the summer for $40 mil (guesstimate
)If he does improve on all aspects at Everton and prove his worth, I'd rather we keep him. Thin enough as it is in midfield.All reports indicating that Everton want to make VDB permanent signing, VDB would like to leave Man Utd and Man Utd is willing to let him go.
Hence, it's almost certain that VDB is gone and will sign for Everton in the summer for $40 mil (guesstimate
I guess he'd only stay if he's got the assurances that he's actually going to play though. Possibly getting Ten Haag will influence his decision too.
All reports indicating that Everton want to make VDB permanent signing, VDB would like to leave Man Utd and Man Utd is willing to let him go.
Hence, it's almost certain that VDB is gone and will sign for Everton in the summer for $40 mil (guesstimate
40mill would be fantastic
I guess Everton fans have pretty low standards. He is lightweight and gets bullied off the ball, he jogs about looking like he can't be arsed and god forbid he try to complete a pass to anyone not standing next to him. So far hew has shown nothing in that loan that would persuade me he can be a regular starter in the PL long term and he is nowhere near the standard for a squad player for a top 4 club.
I've been a critic of Fred but based on what I've seen of him I'd never take VDB over Fred. He's too passive and doesn't make up for it with his quality on the ball which is severely overplayed by people. Mctominay is a bit shit but given we have Bruno as a 10 we need a second CM who can defend and while he can't pass to save his life (depressing for a supposed CM( at least Mctominay has a presence.
He's clearly a great player? A game against Real Madrid a few years ago, how are you coming to this conclusion? I like the kid, really hope he does well at Everton, but he's two managers deep at Manchester United, a club where Matic regularly gets a game, and can't force his way into the starting eleven. What are you seeing that the professional teams of coaches haven't seen in him?
Please list the areas McFred are better than Donny. Here's is mine take
First touch - Donny by a good measure
Passing accuracy and weight - Donny by a good measure
Reading the game - Donny by a nod
Physicality - Fred 1, McT 2, Donny 3, but not by a whole much
Athleticism - pretty equal but not too sure
Speed - about the same for all, maybe Fred by a step
Given that our passing in midfield is our biggest problem I would rather have Donny playing than McFred.
Well using your arbitary selection;
First touch - Donny
Passing accuracy and weight - Fred
Reading the Game - Fred
Physicality - Scott with Donny a very distant third
Athleticism - Scott with Donny a very distant third
Speed - Fred
This post is a joke, right? You can't seriously believe Fred has a better passing than Donny. He misplaces every second pass, ffs.
Read his earlier posts here, he already made up his mind even though the evidence is there that he's wrong.
First touch - Donny
Passing - Fred. With VdB a close second (I'm giving it to Fred because he's just as good as Donny with short, medium passes and he's better with long balls)
Awareness - Donny (I think this is why you say Donny is better than Fred at passing. Fred misplaces passes because he lacks awareness not because his passing is shit
Press resistance - Mctominay and VdB
Physicality - Mctominay. VDb comes second. No idea why thay poster said VDB is a distant third. I think he's confusing aggression with physicality.
Speed - Fred
Would love to see your evidence. I have watched all 4 of his games for Everton and the evidence that I am supposed to be impressed by is what exactly? He had a decent game against Leeds when Everton beat them 3-0 but then everyone who has played Leeds in the last 6 weeks has looked like prime Messi so it is hardly much of an accomplishment. In the following game against Southampton he gave away the ball leading to Southampton's first goal and made no effort to win it back, just jogged about and shrugged his shoulders before going on to complete an amazing 1 tackle and 1 interception in the whole 90 minutes. He followed that up with an anonymous performance against City where despite only passing sideways and backwards to the nearest teammate he still completed less than 70% of his passes.
I would like to see Donny succeed despite the assumption that I have made up my mind but he is not showing anything that would persuade me he can be of any use to us. His best attribute is his ability to join in attacks but for us that would mean playing him instead of Bruno and on no planet is he close to Bruno in terms of ability or effectiveness. We need players with defensive attributes in the midfield and he demonstrates the square root of nothing in this area as he cannot tackle, is careless in possession around his own box and shows very little effort or fight.
You either didn't watch those games or you watched it with confirmation bias
Well not a lot in it but this season Fred has an 84% pass completion rate in the PL and Donny has an 83% completion rate so no it is not a joke it is a provable fact.
Watched them with an open mind, you either did not understand my post or read it with confirmation bias.
That's because Donny doesn't make a pass over 5 yards.
So you really watched the City game and came to the opinion that VdB has no fight and puts very little effort
Completely anonymous against Boreham fecking wood ... hasn't touched the ball once ... finally found his level I'd say...
Fishing
Fishing
All reports indicating that Everton want to make VDB permanent signing, VDB would like to leave Man Utd and Man Utd is willing to let him go.
Hence, it's almost certain that VDB is gone and will sign for Everton in the summer for $40 mil (guesstimate
We will do well to get half that
If Ten Haag comes to United, he won't be going anywhere.
Yes because Ralf wouldn't let him go back home.
We’ll put that in the column for reasons not to appoint Ten Haag then.
That's what always baffled me. VDB was never great for us but the way he barely got time while we kept playing McFred was infuriating.
Donny to turn into scholes next season.
Fred's passing over the last 12 months:
VDB's passing over the last 12 months:
Fred tries far more more passes, far more longer passes, far more progressive passes...and yet still has a higher pass completion rate.
VDB is good at little one-two's (something Fred is actually quite good at as well), but otherwise he really hasn't shown anything even remotely impressive with his passing.
Fred's passing over the last 12 months:
VDB's passing over the last 12 months:
Fred tries far more more passes, far more longer passes, far more progressive passes...and yet still has a higher pass completion rate.
VDB is good at little one-two's (something Fred is actually quite good at as well), but otherwise he really hasn't shown anything even remotely impressive with his passing.
Jesus christ that is grim reading.
Fred's passing over the last 12 months:
VDB's passing over the last 12 months:
Fred tries far more more passes, far more longer passes, far more progressive passes...and yet still has a higher pass completion rate.
VDB is good at little one-two's (something Fred is actually quite good at as well), but otherwise he really hasn't shown anything even remotely impressive with his passing.
People see what they want to. Thank Satan for stats
If he’s so shit, and it isn’t Ole’s fault, then who the feck bought him? That fecker should be fired.
Btw, I don’t think he’s good enough to be a starting midfielder for us either, but watching McFred made me physically sick sometimes. They are nowhere enough either.
Those stats above (Fred v VdB) is grim though.
[Edit] I don’t think he was the right profile to buy considering there was and still is a much greater and urgent need to replace Matic adequately
Btw, I don’t think he’s good enough to be a starting midfielder for us either, but watching McFred made me physically sick sometimes. They are nowhere enough either.
Those stats above (Fred v VdB) is grim though.
[Edit] I don’t think he was the right profile to buy considering there was and still is a much greater and urgent need to replace Matic adequately
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Is it that van de beek isn’t good enough or is it that the managers can’t get the best out of him? He was one of the most promising midfielders in Europe for Ajax. And before people start saying that’s in an easy Dutch league, I remember him being quite good in the champ league also. Will be interesting what happens with him if we do get ten Haag. I have confidence that ten Haag can turn him into a good midfielder for us even if that’s as a deeper midfielder. The guy turned Haller into a goal machine man!
This 'Fred is a crap passer/footballer' myth has to die a death soon surely?Fred's passing over the last 12 months:
VDB's passing over the last 12 months:
Fred tries far more more passes, far more longer passes, far more progressive passes...and yet still has a higher pass completion rate.
VDB is good at little one-two's (something Fred is actually quite good at as well), but otherwise he really hasn't shown anything even remotely impressive with his passing.
Quite alarming stats there really. Albeit under the caveat of context.
VDB just doesn't fit in the way United currently play, maybe he will under ETH, however that would require a complete rebuild around VDB which I don't see happening at all.