Van De Beek | Everton Loan Watch

Nico87 said:
I don’t think he‘s going to hit long raking passes or to switch play, but he’s comfortable playing short quick interchanges, we just don’t play that type of football.
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I think top class midfielders need to be able to do both. Makes him a bit predictable and limits his creativity. In a well oiled machine with well matched players it can be quite effective but out of that system he may struggle to be productive.

City not the best game to judge to be fair, in other games he will be able to get higher up the pitch where what he is good at on the ball will be more useful..
 
Terranova said:
Did he? His job today was to make sure KDB couldn't do anything, which he succeeded to do, even in the second half. The whole Everton team had way less possession in the second half, so not really fair to call it "Faded dramatically" for only VDB
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The whole Everton team faded in the second half, hence so did VDB.

Wasn't his fault entirely, but he was anonymous from 55mins onwards. There's a reason he was taken off first.
 
He is not good enough for the level we want to be.

If we are planning in him replacing Pogba then we are fecked. Should be sold to buy someone more useful
 
Champ said:
The whole Everton team faded in the second half, hence so did VDB.

Wasn't his fault entirely, but he was anonymous from 55mins onwards. There's a reason he was taken off first.
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There was a reason, he got injured making a very important clearance. No because he was playing badly
 
Many slated us for not playing such a good player. Now he is playing he is getting classed as an average one, very early, he maybe needs time to get match fitness and settle in....but i feel by the end of the season we will be callign him exactly what he was before we signed him.

Thats a £25-30m player that we paid slightly over the odds for. More importantly though, for me his is neither a defensive midfielder, attacking one or box to box. He is more a workhorse in the middle of the park with good technique. He was and is a poor siging for me for the reason that he simply wasnt the type of player we needed to sign, nor one that was so good that we couldnt pass the opportunity by.

He is a decent player and with no disrespect is more someone of the level of an Everton or Spurs os some decent Italian sides, not a Barca, Real or United player in my eyes.

On a side note, what a joke of a decision, cast iron penalty if the referee gets told to go to th emonitor he gives a penalty
 
Everytime I see him play he is decent to good, nothing extraordinary but still... Makes you think how shite he must've been in training not to get a chance here!
 
Champ said:
He had cramp, he wasn't injured!!
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But he still was subbed because there was an injury worry, not because he was playing bad. But like i've notice here quite a while, people almost want him to fail here. So every little thing that they can think of because a negative thing
 
Watched the 2nd half and didn't know he was playing till he got injured and subed but being fair to him, I forgot Ali was playing after he came on till Ederson faked an injury after he jumped over him. Maybe it was the role they were asked to play as Allan and Dracula were quite visible.
 
Watched the match, he was defensively pretty good, covered runners and made some good tackles.

The problem is he can't pass beyond 5 metres. There were times when there was a man free on the flank if he played a slightly harder pass, but he went for the 5 yard pass to the nearest man. We sat it time and time again at United. It might work at Ajax when you have the ball camped in the opposition half but he's not going to go very far in this league without learning to at least try some more difficult passes. Once he does that there'll be a decent player there.
 
Terranova said:
But he still was subbed because there was an injury worry, not because he was playing bad. But like i've notice here quite a while, people almost want him to fail here. So every little thing that they can think of because a negative thing
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He limped off with cramp, cramp of all things.
Nothing negative in that but a player coming off with cramp isn't great.
Stretch it out and all is good.

People are not wanting him to fail, I think most have realised he isn't quite up to the standard needed to be a United player unfortunately.
 
Champ said:
He limped off with cramp, cramp of all things.
Nothing negative in that but a player coming off with cramp isn't great.
Stretch it out and all is good.

People are not wanting him to fail, I think most have realised he isn't quite up to the standard needed to be a United player unfortunately.
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Alright Captain Hindsight, nobody knew it was cramp, Lampard even said in a post match interview that he hoped it would be something like cramp, not a real injury(hell, there isn't actually anything known about his condition, publicly that is). So it very much as unknown when he was subbed. So now saying that he went of because it was cramp and that isn't a great sign isn't a great sign of someone who actually supports their own players, more like a sign of someone who wants him to fail
 
Terranova said:
Alright Captain Hindsight, nobody knew it was cramp, Lampard even said in a post match interview that he hoped it would be something like cramp, not a real injury(hell, there isn't actually anything known about his condition, publicly that is). So it very much as unknown when he was subbed. So now saying that he went of because it was cramp and that isn't a great sign isn't a great sign of someone who actually supports their own players, more like a sign of someone who wants him to fail
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I'm pretty sure medics can diagnose cramp when they see it,

Quite simply, VDB isn't good enough for United, not being negative against him, just being honest really. Nothing I have seen for United or Everton so far has shown me he has anything near the level required.
 
I swear so many of you have an agenda whenever you post. After reading comments since the VdB last match I figured he must have played really poorly. Then I watched the first half of Eve v City and saw for myself he played well. Two poor passes, a couple of good penetrating passes, some very good defensive hustle and play, and many passes to keep possession against a swarming city team. All in all a better performance then we get out of McFred during their average play.
 
Champ said:
He limped off with cramp, cramp of all things.
Nothing negative in that but a player coming off with cramp isn't great.
Stretch it out and all is good.

People are not wanting him to fail, I think most have realised he isn't quite up to the standard needed to be a United player unfortunately.
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Out of curiosity, you seem pretty active in this thread. If you've already made up your mind about van de Beek, why are you watching him play? Or you just watch all EPL games?
 
Borys said:
Out of curiosity, you seem pretty active in this thread. If you've already made up your mind about van de Beek, why are you watching him play? Or you just watch all EPL games?
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I watch most games on TV, whether EPL or otherwise.
I don't watch series or Netflix, most of my TV watching is football.

I haven't made my mind up regarding VDB, I just haven't seen anything to suggest so far that he's good enough.
I take a particular interest in United players on loan, hence my activity in the Amad thread also.
I hope he does well at Everton or United, but alas I feel he isn't up to the standard of a top premiership player.
 
Champ said:
I watch most games on TV, whether EPL or otherwise.
I don't watch series or Netflix, most of my TV watching is football.

I haven't made my mind up regarding VDB, I just haven't seen anything to suggest so far that he's good enough.
I take a particular interest in United players on loan, hence my activity in the Amad thread also.
I hope he does well at Everton or United, but alas I feel he isn't up to the standard of a top premiership player.
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Second this. He seems like an Everton level player to me and not a Utd one.
 
VanDeBank said:
Second this. He seems like an Everton level player to me and not a Utd one.
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Yeah, I feel his game at Ajax was covered by the plan if the team, that's not to say he was poor at Ajax, far from it.
But he excelled in a team built to play short sharp passes with quick movement.
He was asked to do a completely different game this weekend, he played deep and was asked to almost drop into a left back position.
Not his usual game, but he started well and faded fast.
 
Champ said:
Yeah, I feel his game at Ajax was covered by the plan if the team, that's not to say he was poor at Ajax, far from it.
But he excelled in a team built to play short sharp passes with quick movement.
He was asked to do a completely different game this weekend, he played deep and was asked to almost drop into a left back position.
Not his usual game, but he started well and faded fast.
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Some will take "Everton level player" as an insult, but it's really not.

Is he better than Rice, Tielemans, Bissouma, Neves, let alone the guys at Chelsea, City, 'Pool? No. Then he's not United (starting) material.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Be interesting to hear your rating of McFred (or Matic/Mata) on that same basis…
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It's irrelevant now that VDB is no longer at the club. He should've gotten more chances, but long term moving forward our midfield isn't good enough, including VDB.

Fred maybe is a starter in the right system. McTominay is stylistically more akin to Fellaini than Donny, but not good enough either. Then again, I'd rather have a homegrown player on the bench than a expensive moaning Dutch blonde.

Mata isnt a CM and hasnt played in ages. Matic is an actual DM, therefore our most important player, but clearly not starting material either.

I hope that was interesting for you.
 
I saw the first half (which was seemingly his better half) and he was okay considering his side and the opposition. Typical VDB really, okay - would probably get him dropped if he played here such has been his fate. But at the same time it wasn't anything to write home about. I guess we will see in the fullness of time how this loan works out, there is a danger in becoming a little too reactionary looking at these individual matches.
 


He really reminds me of Herrera with that wide stance, crisp, clean but rigid looking technique. Same kind of hustle, ball retention and interceptions too.

Sigh. Hope it won't be the same kind of fate.
 
criticalanalysis said:


He really reminds me of Herrera with that wide stance, crisp, clean but rigid looking technique. Same kind of hustle, ball retention and interceptions too.

Sigh. Hope it won't be the same kind of fate.
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Obviously like others I hope he does well and contributes at United but from what I have seen he does remind me of Herrera - just a more goals, poorer defensively and not as good mentally, version of Herrera whose past version id definitely take over today's Vdb. But let's see if the latter can show anything beyond that. At least he's starting to get game time now.
 
criticalanalysis said:


He really reminds me of Herrera with that wide stance, crisp, clean but rigid looking technique. Same kind of hustle, ball retention and interceptions too.

Sigh. Hope it won't be the same kind of fate.
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Wouldn't sharing Herrera's fate be a pretty good outcome at this point? He'd at least be a regular player for us before a departure. At the moment that is odds against.
 
Abraxas said:
Wouldn't sharing Herrera's fate be a pretty good outcome at this point? He'd at least be a regular player for us before a departure. At the moment that is odds against.
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Until he clashes with Mark Noble.
 
VanDeBank said:
It's irrelevant now that VDB is no longer at the club. He should've gotten more chances, but long term moving forward our midfield isn't good enough, including VDB.

Fred maybe is a starter in the right system. McTominay is stylistically more akin to Fellaini than Donny, but not good enough either. Then again, I'd rather have a homegrown player on the bench than a expensive moaning Dutch blonde.

Mata isnt a CM and hasnt played in ages. Matic is an actual DM, therefore our most important player, but clearly not starting material either.

I hope that was interesting for you.
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Not interesting at all but does confirm your reasoning for VdB not being good enough is a load of balls.
 
Champ said:
I watch most games on TV, whether EPL or otherwise.
I don't watch series or Netflix, most of my TV watching is football.

I haven't made my mind up regarding VDB, I just haven't seen anything to suggest so far that he's good enough.
I take a particular interest in United players on loan, hence my activity in the Amad thread also.
I hope he does well at Everton or United, but alas I feel he isn't up to the standard of a top premiership player.
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Fair enough if that's your opinion, I do not agree with this as I see van de Beek at least on the same level as Fred and McTominay (clip of his performance vs City shows he's actually the best tackler we have at the club).
Whether van de Beek is (or can become) "top premiership player" is not the question, becuase neither Fred and McTominay are top premiership players. And that is the only competition for van de Beek in United. Unless we assume Pogba is staying or Matic will be anything more than backup at this point.

One big point to consider - it's highly unlikely we're getting top premiership midfielder considering the situation we're in (big rebuild coming up as probably 3 new attacking players are needed). So rather than aiming for top players, we should really focus on small improvements which can take us forward.

VanDeBank said:
It's irrelevant now that VDB is no longer at the club. He should've gotten more chances, but long term moving forward our midfield isn't good enough, including VDB.

Fred maybe is a starter in the right system. McTominay is stylistically more akin to Fellaini than Donny, but not good enough either. Then again, I'd rather have a homegrown player on the bench than a expensive moaning Dutch blonde.

Mata isnt a CM and hasnt played in ages. Matic is an actual DM, therefore our most important player, but clearly not starting material either.

I hope that was interesting for you.
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He certainly is still at the club. But going with your analysis, it seems like we have: Fred who may be a starter in the right system (I agree), McTominay who is not good enough (I agree), and Matic who won't be a starter next season for obvious reasons.
So our forward line is a disaster, and we have total number of 3 midfielders, 2 of which are widely considered not good enough. And yet, van de Beek is already deemed "not good enough" and written off despite having OK performances in EPL. And I think it's highly unlikely we see his top level now after 3 weeks of regular game time.
We will be searching for midfield improvements for another few years, and in the meantime our midfield will be McTominay-Fred if we don't change that approach IMO.

Again, we will need to spend fortune on forwards this summer, and IF we are getting a new midfielder, this will most certainly be a DM anyway. So we should really consider van de Beek part of our squad, whether we think he is or is not the required standard in this particular moment.
 
Borys said:
Fair enough if that's your opinion, I do not agree with this as I see van de Beek at least on the same level as Fred and McTominay (clip of his performance vs City shows he's actually the best tackler we have at the club).
Whether van de Beek is (or can become) "top premiership player" is not the question, becuase neither Fred and McTominay are top premiership players. And that is the only competition for van de Beek in United. Unless we assume Pogba is staying or Matic will be anything more than backup at this point.

One big point to consider - it's highly unlikely we're getting top premiership midfielder considering the situation we're in (big rebuild coming up as probably 3 new attacking players are needed). So rather than aiming for top players, we should really focus on small improvements which can take us forward.


He certainly is still at the club. But going with your analysis, it seems like we have: Fred who may be a starter in the right system (I agree), McTominay who is not good enough (I agree), and Matic who won't be a starter next season for obvious reasons.
So our forward line is a disaster, and we have total number of 3 midfielders, 2 of which are widely considered not good enough. And yet, van de Beek is already deemed "not good enough" and written off despite having OK performances in EPL. And I think it's highly unlikely we see his top level now after 3 weeks of regular game time.
We will be searching for midfield improvements for another few years, and in the meantime our midfield will be McTominay-Fred if we don't change that approach IMO.

Again, we will need to spend fortune on forwards this summer, and IF we are getting a new midfielder, this will most certainly be a DM anyway. So we should really consider van de Beek part of our squad, whether we think he is or is not the required standard in this particular moment.
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Any sort of VDB vs our current midfielders debate became irrelevant the moment he went out on loan, because he's not able to start for us.

You're overthinking this. Bruno, Fred and the DM we'll be buying are better players than VDB.
Donny doesn't want to be a bench player. 1+1=2.

Matic is still contracted for another year IIRC.

The fact that we might not have overhaul our entire midfield or the fact that you're unsure how VDB stacks up against our current midfielders doesn't change the fact that Donny isn't good enough and has made it clear he doesn't want to be a bench player.

Pogue Mahone said:
Not interesting at all but does confirm your reasoning for VdB not being good enough is a load of balls.
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No, my opinion on our midfielders is completely irrelevant with regards to the VDB's level.
My opinion of him is based on all the games I've watched him play for Ajax, Holland, United, Everton, which is about 150 games at this point ?
The fact that you may not rate our other midfielders doesn't make VDB a better player than he actually is.
 
VanDeBank said:
Any sort of VDB vs our current midfielders debate became irrelevant the moment he went out on loan, because he's not able to start for us.

You're overthinking this. Bruno, Fred and the DM we'll be buying are better players than VDB.
Donny doesn't want to be a bench player. 1+1=2.

Matic is still contracted for another year IIRC.

The fact that we might not have overhaul our entire midfield or the fact that you're unsure how VDB stacks up against our current midfielders doesn't change the fact that Donny isn't good enough and has made it clear he doesn't want to be a bench player.
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If Pogba leaves, there will be plenty of playing time for other midfielder - because surely Fred is not playing every minute every game next season. Now our alternative is McTominay or 34yo Matic. Hopefully we're not starting new season with those options. This is why I think we should pay very close attention to van de Beek Everton loan and hope he finds his feet, which to me seems like it's already happening.
 
Borys said:
If Pogba leaves, there will be plenty of playing time for other midfielder - because surely Fred is not playing every minute every game next season. Now our alternative is McTominay or 34yo Matic. Hopefully we're not starting new season with those options. This is why I think we should pay very close attention to van de Beek Everton loan and hope he finds his feet, which to me seems like it's already happening.
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I haven't seen much to suggest VDB is a better player than McTominay or Matic.
Let's pick the guy that doesn't moan about being on the bench.
 
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